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Igawa Bid at $25 Million

by jdudas on Nov 28, 2006 2:16 PM EST

Sports Illustrated is reporting that the winning bid for Igawa was $25 million:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/11/28/igawa.bid/index.html

This for a guy that one scout was recently quoted as saying didn't have the stuff to pitch in either the AL East or the AL Central.

Front offices are partying like it's 1999.

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Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

Maybe teams are just having a hard time with the Dollars-Yen conversion factor...

by APV on Nov 28, 2006 2:19 PM EST reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

Yikes. Articles I saw said this guy would be a "back of the rotation" starter in the majors. I think I'll just start drinking now, if this story is true.

One thing is certain: the Cubans could make some real money "posting" their pitchers.

by MTF on Nov 28, 2006 2:20 PM EST reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

by MTF on Nov 28, 2006 2:20 PM EST reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

The NY Daily News this morning said "Some have estimated the posting fee for Igawa will be around $10 million-$13 million, much less than the $51.1 million the Red Sox paid for the right to negotiate with Matsuzaka."

The NY Post described Igawa as a "27-year-old lefty who some believe could be a back-of-the-rotation starter for a team that scores runs and catches the ball."

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on Nov 28, 2006 2:25 PM EST reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

So someone just paid $25 million for the rights to negotiate with someone who aspires to be Cliff Lee. Quick Shap.: to the trading phone!

by jdudas on Nov 28, 2006 2:27 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

EXACTLY!!! THIS IS MY POINT!!! We should be trading the Lee's and Byrd's of the world because they are cheaper now...and probably better than most!

by Tribe Alive on Nov 28, 2006 2:43 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

Who do we replace them with that will not cost us more?

Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Nov 28, 2006 4:02 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

Maybe Mulder to an incentive contract? I havent heard much about him...

by Tribe Alive on Nov 28, 2006 10:10 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

I haven't hear much about him, what is the status on his health?

Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Nov 28, 2006 11:18 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

Should be healthy now and as long as he is, he is at least as good as Byrd.

by Tribe Alive on Nov 29, 2006 9:11 AM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

He had surgery to repair a torn rotator cuff in September and isn't expected to be ready in time to start the season. He also has a history of hip problems and has been getting steadily worse since 2002. I'm not opposed to pulling people off the salvage heap at the right price, but I don't have much hope that Mulder is recoverable.

by APV on Nov 29, 2006 9:29 AM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

Yeah; and I also don't get the sense that he's going to be affordable. The Cardinals are supposedly talking about a multi-year contract. People still think it's 2003, I guess.

by jdudas on Nov 29, 2006 7:23 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

The Sturgeon General's Report projects Igawa as a league-average starter, "worth Jeff Suppan money".

$25 mil just to negotiate doesn't sound like Jeff Suppan money...

by Jackdaw on Nov 28, 2006 3:13 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

Have you seen Adam Eaton's new deal?

by Jay on Nov 28, 2006 3:20 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

What's worse is that people keep calling it a "sensible" signing. If he hadn't been so hyped at 20, he'd be getting half that. Nothing makes me laugh like hearing about Eaton's potential when he's 29 years old.

by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on Nov 28, 2006 4:46 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

We do half of that equation.

by JulioBernazard on Nov 28, 2006 8:16 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

Apparently WFAN and YES Network are both reporting that the Yankees won the bidding.

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on Nov 28, 2006 5:58 PM EST reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

Well, similar to Hans' Cubs argument, it almost makes sense for NYY. The money is largely a wash and it will improve the team more than marginally. They get a youngish pitcher who, hopefully, can pitch kind of consistently at the back of the rotation. Any SP is a good move for the Yankees and until they are forced acknowledge their resources are limited somewhere, I can't blame them for shelling out a one time fee of 25 million to get a guy who can help them. It's just a different game they're playing-same as the Red Sox and Matsuzaka.

by afh4 on Nov 28, 2006 6:01 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

Just looked it up, he's actually 27. Much younger than I had thought (sorry if that's mentioned in the diary or something-surprised me).

by afh4 on Nov 28, 2006 6:04 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

Good point, it does make perfect sense for them.

by dgcambridge on Nov 28, 2006 6:58 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

This is what needs to happen: All the big market teams need to be in a league of their own. That way they could have their own FA draft with only the players that will make over 10 million. And a bid system that starts at 25 million. That way they can beat out each others brain.

Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Nov 28, 2006 7:28 PM EST reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

This bidding situation is a joke. There should easily be a draft for foreign players.

by Tribe Alive on Nov 28, 2006 10:11 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

Agreed.

by JulioBernazard on Nov 29, 2006 3:55 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

I agree the posting process is pretty absurd, but I think the Japanese professional league would probably want to have a say before we begin drafting their players.

by APV on Nov 29, 2006 4:11 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

The solution might be some type of foreign minor league system or something but definitely not this bidding process...

by Tribe Alive on Nov 29, 2006 8:09 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

how exactly do you think a draft involving Matsuzaka would work out? his agent is Scott Boras.

even if Kansas City selects him with the first pick in the foreign draft, they can't sign him. first they'd have to deal with Seibu -- he is still under contract with them, of course -- and then they'd have to deal with Boras and Matsuzaka.

there are plenty of holdouts already among American amateur players who want bigger contracts than they can get from the teams that draft them. Matsuzaka's in even better shape; he can keep playing with Seibu for another year for a cool $3 million, and then he's an unrestricted free agent and can just sign with the Red Sox anyway.

it seems like with a foreign draft, small-market teams would still have to pass on "unsignable" big name Japanese stars and just select guys they can actually afford, while marquee imports like Matsuzaka end up in Boston or New York.

by nctribefan on Dec 1, 2006 4:41 AM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

Just an FYI, Matsuzaka actually has two years left in Japan before he becomes a free agent.

If Boston doesn't sign him, Seibu can repost him next November again.

by talonk on Dec 1, 2006 10:36 AM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

He's a free agent May 1, 2008, so reposting him Nov. 2007 is likely to net significantly less money.

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on Dec 1, 2006 12:06 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

weird. does their season run at different times of the year from ours?

by nctribefan on Dec 1, 2006 10:38 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

Rotoworld has this to say about the posting process this year:

Jimmie Lee Solomon, executive VP of baseball operations in the commissioner's office, said any side deals used to convert Daisuke Matsuzaka's posting fee into salary for the right-hander would not be allowed.

It's not sourced, so who knows if it's true. But I would like to think the Red Sox and Yankees would be forced to pay the huge sums they posted in their entirety.

by APV on Nov 28, 2006 10:11 PM EST reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

Very interesting.

Leyritz on MLB radio discussing how the feeling among Japanese teams generally is that players who post are not really welcome back with the team. Boston beat writers think the deal will get done.

by dgcambridge on Nov 29, 2006 1:19 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

The issue isn't whether they'll pay the posting fee in its entirety. The issue is whether the posting team will (indirectly) pay part of the bid money to the player, in order to make sure that a deal actually gets done. There is no good reason not to allow that.

THe posting system was set up to balance the desire of top Japanese players to play in the U.S. with MLB's desire not to totally wreck Japanese baseball in the process. One does wonder if they're just pissing in the wind, but in general the system is well intentioned though flawed.

by Jay on Nov 29, 2006 11:17 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

My concern is that by allowing the posting team to pass along some of the fee put up by the bidding team the entire process becomes blurred. It adds another layer of "below the table" negotiations to the process. I don't think that is really in the interest of MLB, the Japanese league, or the players involved.

by APV on Nov 29, 2006 11:44 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

I don't think you're wrong, but I do think it isn't quite that black and white. For one thing, it's still the commissioner's discretion to find that the winning bidder is acting in bad faith, so there are limits to how much this can be used.

But the more important point is that the winning bidder is really setting not simply the amount of money the team will be paid, but also how much financial leverage the posting team can wield in the process. If the winning bid is $35 million, then the posting team has a maximum of $35 million to spend on (a) making the deal happen, and (b) pure profit.

Obviously the posting team is going to prefer to have $51 million to split between those two purposes -- and it is entirely at their discretion. So while the process gets blurred, it isn't totally obliterated.

by Jay on Nov 30, 2006 12:52 AM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

That would all be fine where the player, the Red Sox, and the Lions are concerned. But I think the point about keeping the process separate is important to the other bidding clubs.

If the expectation is that the bid is paid entirely to the Lions, and that the Sox have to go up and above that to convince the player, that certainly affects your bid amount.

Another way to say it: if the Lions can push some of the bid money to Matsuzaka, the effect is that the deal will get done will less money coming out of the Red Sox pocket overall. That can't make George too happy.

Now if all of the teams understood that kind of contribution to be allowed, that would be different. But the statements from MLB seem to
belie that.

by dgcambridge on Nov 30, 2006 9:02 AM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

We'll see how this turns out -- MLB will have a hard time preventing side deals if (a) they allowed it in the past, and (b) all three parties want it.

Now if all of the teams understood that kind of contribution to be allowed, that would be different.

I don't think the Red Sox had any special information, so it should have affected all 30 teams' bid decisions equally. Again, there is a precedent for this, and I don't believe there is any precedent for MLB blocking it.

by Jay on Nov 30, 2006 11:01 AM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

I'd agree with all that. What the precendent you're refering to?

by dgcambridge on Nov 30, 2006 3:26 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

I think money was kicked back from the posting team in the Ichiro sweepstakes.

by APV on Nov 30, 2006 4:31 PM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

You know, European soccer teams manage to negotiate multi-million dollar transfer fees all the time without these side deals. I'd imagine Seibu wants such a side deal only to the extent they are forced to take one, which is to say they don't really want one at all. The Ichiro kickback is a rumor, and I haven't found any credible site confirming it happened.

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on Nov 30, 2006 5:12 PM EST reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

I'd imagine Seibu wants such a side deal only to the extent they are forced to take one, which is to say they don't really want one at all.

That's equally true any time any business entity pays anything to anyone. It's just business. Don't feel sorry for businesses; they're sure as hell not feeling sorry for you.

by Jay on Dec 1, 2006 12:40 AM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

mkwng, i've been thinking about the soccer analogy as well. the fact that there's a transfer fee in this instance makes it look similar, but the whole blind bid thing makes Japan-to-MLB tranfers pretty unique.

if a soccer team is looking to sell a player, the negotiations are open to any team that wants to offer something. if the prospective team and the player can't work something out, the selling team just keeps dealing with the other bidders, no problem.

but because of the posting system, Seibu is stuck with the Red Sox, which to me looks like it gives Theo & Co. about 95% of the leverage. which opens up the possibility of kickbacks, etc.

the fact that we're even thinking about this in the same terms as soccer transfers frightens me, though, because the big powers in European soccer are even more vile than the Yankees and Red Sox, and that's a terrible direction to be moving in.

by nctribefan on Dec 1, 2006 4:25 AM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

I'd have to agree that you don't want to move too much towards how transfers work over here. nctribefan described it quite well. If it worked like it does here, the Sox or the Yankees would still have won, they just probably wouldn't have needed to shell out so much. The blind bid at least gives the smaller teams so sort of chance, and if anything at least ensures the big teams have to overpay ridiculosuly.

Not so sure the big powers are any more vile, but there's defintely not as much parity as you see in baseball...the best players get bought by the biggest teams, and there's no protection against players requesting a transfer...even a rookie.

You defintely want to keep it a little more loaded towards the smaller teams.

by Luis (Tribe Fan in London) on Dec 1, 2006 4:55 AM EST up reply actions

Re: Igawa Bid at $25 Million

maybe i meant the big soccer teams over there seem even more powerful than the Yankees and Red Sox, especially in comparison to other teams in their domestic leagues.

but you're right: nothing could be more vile than the Yankees. :)

by nctribefan on Dec 1, 2006 10:42 PM EST up reply actions

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