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Borowski Close to Signing

by jdudas on Dec 4, 2006 1:18 PM EST Comment 67 comments

Indians.com is reporting that the Indians are close to finalizing a one-year deal with Joe Borowski, contingent on him passing a physical tomorrow:

I must admit that I'd prefer Foulke, even if it took a 2-year deal. But, at the right price and with a little luck, Borowski could be a nice acquisition.

Update [2006-12-4 20:35:40 by jdudas]: ESPN is reporting that the Indians' offer is for 1 year, $4 million and that Borowski would compete for the closer's job.

0 recs | Comment 67 comments

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Comments

Re: Borowski

I like JoeBo as much as Foulke. He's had more success more recently.

And this doesn't mean we can't throw some cash at someone coming off of an injury.

by JulioBernazard on Dec 4, 2006 2:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

I like that we have Borowski, but I've got to agree that Foulke has the better upside. And his fantastic K/BB ratio returned last year.

by dgcambridge on Dec 4, 2006 9:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

It's time to wonder if we might be done at this point.

I'm sure Shapiro will keep working and looking for angles. But this could be the team.

by dgcambridge on Dec 4, 2006 2:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

If we sign Borowski, I think Shapiro will have done all of the things the Tribe needed to do this offseason; signing a few potentially quality relievers, adding a bat to hit RHP, and finding a 2B. I don't think it rules out the possibility of a significant and surprising trade.

by APV on Dec 4, 2006 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

Good synopsis.
I think if the Borowski signing is for real, that's exactly what we can expect going forward.

by The DiaTriber on Dec 4, 2006 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

I think he has consistently hinted at trading for a backup SS, particularly after they failed to sign Counsel although they offered him more money.

I also have a problem with our outfield in the sense that we have too many of them. Gutz may be outta here. Keeping him in AAA is only going to not allow some of last years AA guys to progress.

by hans on Dec 4, 2006 8:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

Agreed. However, what about the increased payroll? Are we using the extra to extend Pronk and CC? Or could we be "tempted." It seems to me we didn't shoot our load on the guys we've signed.

I suppose we don't have to spend all of our money. We may need a midseason acquisition if we are in the hunt.

by BoDiaz1974 on Dec 4, 2006 2:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

Shapiro said in his online chat the other day that typically they spend November-February working on re-shaping the roster. Extensions and contracts for players already with the team are discussed more often in Spring Training.

by APV on Dec 4, 2006 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

What about the veteran shortstop to back up Peralta? I think the PD mentioned that, and I think it is necessary to have someone to push JP, just in case.

by BoDiaz1974 on Dec 4, 2006 3:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

I think, presuming Borowski gets signed, their being completely done would be viewed as a 'worst-case scenario'. In other words, they would sit back and cherry pick and try to imoprove the team further knowing they did the minimum they needed to do coming into this offseason. They still have decisions to make about the guys out of options.

Personaly, I'm waiting to log on to LGT one morning and read something crazy like:

"Tribe grants Sammy Sosa non-roster invitation to Spring Training"

by Brick. on Dec 4, 2006 3:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

I'd be ok with this roster going into the 2007 season. One reason, as I've posted before, is that I believe relief pitchers are kind of a crap shoot anyhow. So it seems like we have enough bodies to choose from now.

However, my guess is that there will be at least one trade to bring a high-quality reliever to the Tribe.

One reason for a trade would be to reduce the OF count. We have six in Cleveland (Blake, Choo, Dellucci, Gut, Michaels, & Sizemore). Perhaps Garko will be traded or move to Buffalo, so Blake can move to 1B.

Also, Gut can go back to Buffalo, but as been pointed out, Buffalo is crowded too. Barring a trade, it would seem that Crowe (LF), Barton (CF) and Goleski (RF) would start. So, perhaps Francisco and/or Gut would be in reserve. So, the fringe players - like Cooper, VanEvery, and Snyder - looks very shaky.

In summary (man,I'm long-winded today), all these outfielders make me think the trading is not done.

by kov on Dec 4, 2006 4:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

It will be a tremendous achievement if Shapiro can complete his whole shopping list in the first week of December.

It doesn't rule out further changes, even major ones, but it puts us in a position of negotiating strength. We can afford to do nothing at that point, and that will not be the case with the folks we're negotiating with.

I am a fan of leaving some money in the kitty for a midseason acquisition, but we do seem to have $10 million or more still available after these signings. So I will not be surprised if there are more moves.

by Jay on Dec 4, 2006 4:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

Just clarifying, you think we have around $10MM after a potential Borowski signing?

by cheech99 on Dec 4, 2006 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

I'm kind of against it. Only because it didn't work the last year (not that it was there plan, they just couldn't get anyone to leave sunny california). Is it just plain luck that our team keeps starting out poorly every year under Wedge? I don't know, but Shapiro hasn't been in contention early enough to be a buyer at the trading deadline. If we can improve now, I say go for it, spend the money.

by hans on Dec 4, 2006 8:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

I think signing Borowski would be a good move. It is not the kind of move that is going to have the fans jumping up and down to buy tickets. I know that most of us will be somewhat happy with signings. But I don't think the majority of the fans will not look at it the same way and these are the people that need to buy tickets.

Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Dec 4, 2006 5:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

don't spend just for the sake of spending. it never works. if we're 10 mil under what dolan said we could spend, and shapiro is happy with the 25 man roster, then so be it. have that extra money. a lot of money was saved in not signing/trading for a pricey 2b. after this off-season it will probably cost a pretty penny to ink BOTH pronk and CC, and if marte, sowers, and/or garko breaks out, signing them long term to similar deals like jhonny or grady.

the pen is a crapshoot, 2007 will probably be closer to the glory of 2005 than the horrors of 2006, just because they're not carrying obvious to everyone but the FO deadweight like sauerbeck and graves.

by brad on Dec 4, 2006 5:19 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

I agree with Brad, but in the reliever scrap pile, I wonder if we can find the Howry of 2005 or will we get the Mota of 2006.

by kov on Dec 4, 2006 5:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

Will he also be playing for an "incentive laden contract" with us? If the signing is in the 1.5-2m. range, it's a good move. By all accounts Borowski seems almost equivalent to Wicky--compare the stats and you find he gives up a few more walks but less hits, however more of those hits are long balls (Wick 2 hr/54 inn., Bor. 7 hr/69 inn, which explains OPS against for Wick (.619) better than Bor. (.699) despite better BA against for Bor.(.235-.251). If he is half the price, then he is better than half the pitcher. And at 1 year, it leaves the possibility to either be paying for a half-year closer because of either injury or someone younger stepping up.
In short, a small step down from Wicky at (hopefully) less than half the price. Nothing to salivate about, but should bring stability to start the season.

by DocNo on Dec 4, 2006 6:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

I'm very displeased with what has happened to this point. I don't mind any one of the three reliever acquired on their own, however as a group, this is a sad showing and one that smells like "panic" move more then "needs met".
I wouldn't be so against these moves if the pitchers were younger, but given the age of these pitchers, not signing Gagne, Foulke or Dotel makes absolutely no sense.

If it a concern with dollars, then I will point my finger at the wasted cash on Dellucci.
So far, I'm giving the Tribe and Shapiro a C- for his work to this point. I am happy that 2B is filled, but it takes away from the AstroCab move that was made this season. Dellucci is a nice player, but I don't see how he improves this roster for next year and going forward. Hernandez, Fultz and Borowski are all nice options, but all 3 as the "solution" to the problem? I'm not a fan of.

Only time will tell though.

by Brandini on Dec 4, 2006 6:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

I read Gagne wants a 1-year, $10MM deal. That's a gamble.

by JulioBernazard on Dec 4, 2006 8:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

Let's not forget, this is a guy (Gagne) who can't even throw off a mound right now.

by mkwng on Dec 5, 2006 10:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

certainly, none of the guys we signed is "lights out." but if they help, they help. you might sign a guy like Gagne and pay him $10 mill to watch him sit out 7/8 of the year. and i'd say Foulke is as much of a question mark at this point in his career as any of these guys.

i'm wondering if Shapiro looked ahead to this year's free agent reliever class before trading Wickman. i figured he was retiring so it wouldn't matter, but i'd sure like to have him back now.

by nctribefan on Dec 4, 2006 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

"this is a sad showing and one that smells like 'panic' move more then 'needs met'."

As opposed to the Orioles throwing $42MM at relievers that are just as unreliable?

"I am happy that 2B is filled, but it takes away from the AstroCab move that was made this season."

I'm not sure Cab was ever meant to be a presence until 08. And that being said, Barfield would be my choice any day.

by nickjs21 on Dec 4, 2006 10:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

I am with you, these moves are good given our financial situation. Gagne is a huge risk and a huge price and Foulke could still end up here. Barfield was an awesome pick-up that I think could join the Sizemore trade as one of Shapiro's best. Sometimes the need to be malcontented can overwhelm the evidence that something good is happening.

Wait 'til next year... or something like that

by fwembt on Dec 5, 2006 12:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

I like most of Shapiro's moves this offseason, but personally I am not in love with the apparent Borowski deal--$4 million seems like a lot of money for a guy who already failed a physical with another team previously and who over his career has been mostly mediocre anyway.

I'd rather see them go after guys like Dotel, Foulke, Gagne (Brandini convinced me of this one), or some kind of trade for Rafael Soriano in Seattle.

by Jackdaw on Dec 5, 2006 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

A failed physical is a failed physical, HOWEVER, we don't know what they were looking for that caused him to fail-- Whatever they saw could very well deter a multi-year contract, and be perfectly fine with a one-year deal. It's my understanding that even after the failed physical, the Phillies were still talking about a one year deal.

by nickjs21 on Dec 5, 2006 12:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

Omar Vizquel failed his physical when the Tribe tried to trade him to Seattle. That was what, two Gold Gloves ago?

[Sorry if this brings back bad memories for any of you.]

by Fiddlesticks on Dec 5, 2006 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

I feel the need to set the record straight on this ... every time. "Failed the physical" is a highly arbitrary phrase. It just means whatever questions the team was asking of its docs, the docs said no.

In Vizquel's case, he demanded a one-year contract extension of $6 million in order for him not to veto the trade. Facaed with a two-year, $12 million contract with Vizquel, the Mariners passed. In that respect, it is similar to the Borowski situation with the Mets.

By the way, Vizquel's Gold Gloves came 2-3 years after that, more time for that knee to heal.

by Jay on Dec 5, 2006 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

""Failed the physical" is a highly arbitrary phrase. It just means whatever questions the team was asking of its docs, the docs said no."

That's the point I was trying to make.

by Fiddlesticks on Dec 6, 2006 10:39 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

This probably could use its own Diary, but the Cardinals just signed Chris Carpenter to a contract extension through 2011 with a team option for 2012. C.C.s younger and has been healthier, so he's probably worth a little more, but it should serve as a decent starting point for negotiations regarding a possible CC extension.

by APV on Dec 4, 2006 7:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

Yikes. Carpenter is a great pitcher, but they're essentially paying him $50 million for 2009-2011...pretty damn risky for a guy with his injury history. Somewhere, Sabathia is smiling.

by Kos on Dec 4, 2006 8:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

On the contrary, I think this bodes well for the Indians. Looking at how much lesser pitchers are getting paid in the open market, Carpenter traded higher annual salaries for the security of a longer contract. The question is whether C.C. (or Westbrook) would be willing to do the same.

5 years at $13M per is pretty reasonable for a Cy Young winner, considering that Ted Lilly is looking for a 4 year deal worth $10M-$12M annually.

I don't think that 5 years at $15M is outrageous for C.C., nor do I think that it's outrageous that the Indians offer him such a deal.

by The DiaTriber on Dec 4, 2006 9:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski

I completely agree. I'd be happy with that. If he remains healthy, whatever they'd be paying him towards the end of the contract will not seem anywhere as outrageous as the FA contracts of pitchers that will be on the open market in five years.

by hans on Dec 4, 2006 9:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

Assuming that the Tribe has 65 million to play with this season they have probably done as well as can be expected. This is not a team that can afford pricey free agents. In the Boston Globe this week, they listed the teams in order of projected revenue and the Tribe came in the lower tier - above Tampa and Pittsburgh - in the same area roughly as Oakland. Since Oakland is unable to hold onto its prospects when they reach the big time - like Zito, Hudson et al - the Tribe will probably have to trade Sabathia for prospects. I wish they could sign CC and Pronk but it is unlikely they can do so. Let's face it baseball is based on inequality. This coming year the Red Sox will spend in excess of $140, the Yankees $200, the Angels and Mariners in excess pf $100 million. In the face of these economics, the Tribe must win with prospects and over the hill veterans who have a few years left. To win Shapiro must pull a Billy Beane.

spinske

by spinske on Dec 4, 2006 8:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

You do understand that our revenue is right in the middle 15th out 30 and that was before the new cable package.

Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Dec 4, 2006 10:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

Note to Ryan & Jay: sorry, I've screwed up the link on the Update and have no clue how to fix it.

by jdudas on Dec 4, 2006 8:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

Hey, I fixed it!

by jdudas on Dec 4, 2006 8:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

$4 million seems like a pretty nice deal if they think he's healthy. It sure makes me think that Foulke, Dotel, and Gagne are asking for more of a commitment.

by Kos on Dec 4, 2006 8:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

The more I think about it (plus the fact that Shapiro had been up late talking to Dotel's agent on Sunday) I bet we sign another bullpen arm. If it is Dotel or Foulke, I'd be content with the bullpen signings.

by hans on Dec 4, 2006 9:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

That's a good point; I just assumed that one of Borowski/Foulke/Gagne/Dotel would be the last acquisition. But perhaps there is more in store.

Railing against the sacrifice bunt since 2000.

by jdudas on Dec 4, 2006 10:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

I hope it's Dotel, not just because of the obscene K rates he used to have, but because of how much it would aggravate certain people around here.

by Jay on Dec 5, 2006 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

those are both very good reasons.

by hans on Dec 5, 2006 7:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

I really don't understand the Dotel hate. I'd be very happy to see him sign.

-Erik

by drerikbrady on Dec 6, 2006 6:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

Me too. I think a healthy Dotel is the most effective guy available, short of a healthy Gagne.

by MTF on Dec 6, 2006 8:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

his (post-injury) performance last year was horrible
G IP H R HR BB SO W L Sv WHIP BAA ERA
14 10.0 18 13 2 11 7 0 0 0 0 2.90 .383 10.80

by portlandtribefan on Dec 6, 2006 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

Please define "his". Dotel?

-Erik

by drerikbrady on Dec 6, 2006 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

yes, Dotel

by portlandtribefan on Dec 6, 2006 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

I'm almost sure this isn't the last bullpen arm-- Shapiro said after the Hernandez/Fultz signings that he's looking for 2 more guys with closing experience.

My favorite part of this signing? The line, "...and that Borowski would COMPETE for the closer's job." Meaning we didn't have to guarantee the closing role for him. And now we're not handcuffed by having to name him the closer. This opens up a lot of possible situations-- Fernando stepping up in spring training, a trade for a young guy with great stuff, etc.

by nickjs21 on Dec 4, 2006 10:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

Yeah I'm not sold that they aren't looking to sign another arm either (or pickup one via trade, for that matter).

Borowski, Fultz, and Hernandez as FAs
Plus: Betancourt and Cabrera would be holdovers you'd think, and hopefully a healthy Matt miller.

While, you would think they might like to give a shot to some of the young talent or holdovers like Davis a chance at that 7th spot, it still doesn't strike me that they have enough security in the back-end spots of the pen.

I wouldn't be surprised if they aren't looking for another lefty.

However, I can't be unhappy with what the FO has done so far. There's a lot of winter left and with a lot of the team's holes having been patched up, there's a lot of time to invest in creative solutions, while other teams are still rushing to pick up the free agent scraps.

by dave on Dec 4, 2006 10:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

These signings are soooo much better than the Graves, Karsay, Sauerbeck, Johnson moves made last winter...I'm thankful for that. The timing also allows Shapiro to be patient now. Filling holes early in the offseason may also give Shapiro leverage later on, when teams (like Texas) are scrambling to get what they need.

by buckwild460 on Dec 4, 2006 10:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

You may well see several Graves/Karsay moves over the next few months. Those are retread projects. We are signing major-league free agent relievers this winter, something we did not think was necessary a year ago.

by Jay on Dec 4, 2006 10:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

I should add, I don't see why the Fultz signing is any better than the Sauerbeck re-signing was.

by Jay on Dec 4, 2006 10:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

We can only hope Fultz doesn't get arrested in Sheffield township.

by cheech99 on Dec 4, 2006 10:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

Scott Sauerbeck just jumped out of the bushes to agree with you.

by mkwng on Dec 4, 2006 10:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

It's not...it's just easy for people to bash Sauerbeck after he struggled in his 13 innings with us.

by Kos on Dec 4, 2006 11:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

Guess I'm late to the party but, predictably, I like the deal. It's cheap (anybody who's still saying 4 million seems like a lot, in any context, probably needs to recalibrate their internal checkbook at this point), it's only a year, and it has the potential to work out.

Frankly, this is the best approach I thnik you could take with a bullpen, outside of signing someone like BJ Ryan. Just acquire/hold onto live arms with varying degrees of past success, try to get a specialist or two (i.e. loogys, guys with 'closer mentality') and then just see what happens.

As everyone seems to think, I doubt we're done but if we are, whatever. I'm happy this stupid bullpen reclamation project is almost over.

by afh4 on Dec 5, 2006 10:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

I guess my thought was that we can stay put now, and be mostly content. Not that we necessarily will.

Welcome back. If you haven't noticed, our party has been crashed.

by dgcambridge on Dec 5, 2006 10:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

I've been lurking about. Things are rather nasty here lately. As seems to be the cycle of every few months right now there appears to be an incredible emphasis on being RIGHT AND CORRECT, COMPLETELY, as opposed to just talking about baseball. Whatever, I guess. Offseason is long and my adoration for Shapiro is too great to say much without coming off like an idiot.

by afh4 on Dec 5, 2006 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

I'm with you. It's funny to watch...for a while. Eventually it's just annoying. It's like: I love watching Michael Scott every week, but I couldn't work with him.

by dgcambridge on Dec 5, 2006 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

Now David Brent, on the other hand...

Railing against the sacrifice bunt since 2000.

by jdudas on Dec 5, 2006 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

Come on...if Michael Scott was my boss, I'd never retire. What other boss takes his employees on a booze cruise and hosts a casino night? And that's before you even consider the benefits of occasionally seeing his BFF, Mr. Todd Packer.

by Kos on Dec 6, 2006 12:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

oh good! now that we've signed borowski, we can look into trading fernando cabrera or maybe fausto.

what's that? oh, sorry, i was just applying the 2007 indians logic, whereby signing david dellucci results in trading either shin-soo choo or ryan garko.

seriously, can anybody explain why they're so desperate to get rid of these guy? i mean, i know it'll be real tough on wedge to have a roster full of guys who actually produce ("no ramon vazquez? but then who do i sit all the time?"), but unless joe nathan's burning a hole in terry ryan's pockets, what gives?

by fleerdon on Dec 5, 2006 11:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

Not sure that anyone other than our esteemed colleagues on this site have discussed trading Ryan Garko. I think he will be in a Cleveland uni at the start of the year. Has anyone heard the FO say he is on his way out?

Wait 'til next year... or something like that

by fwembt on Dec 6, 2006 1:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

Garko in an Indians uni? I wish I could figure out where he's going to get the 600 AB's he deserves to get...

I'd only consider trading Garko because he'd get a better shot elsewhere, and he has too much value to sit around on the bench.

by MTF on Dec 6, 2006 8:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Borowski Close to Signing

Don't get me wrong, I think we could really make a big move with him. I also think he would be an asset to us if we can find him 400ab's. I was just saying that I haven't heard Shap or any FO guys talk about moving him.

Wait 'til next year... or something like that

by fwembt on Dec 6, 2006 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Potential Snag?

According to the Philadelphia Inquirer today:

But the Indians also were told that their doctor has the same concerns about Borowski's shoulder that the Phillies had.

http://www.philly.com/mld/dailynews/sports/16174080.htm

July 28, 2006 - The Andy Marte Era officially begins. Proud to be the unofficial Andy Marte Apologist.

by woodsmeister on Dec 6, 2006 9:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Potential Snag?

This is what I've been worried about....he has just as much risk of injury/re-injury as Foulke, Dotel, and Gagne, and less upside if he does stay healthy. And in today's market these damaged-goods reclamation deals are not quite the cheap throwaways they used to be.

by Jackdaw on Dec 6, 2006 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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by TheDanimal 6 days ago 16 comments | 0 recs

ICBWDSTGFO550K

by westbrook 8 days ago 130 comments | 0 recs

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