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Did Shapiro miss this one?

by DocNo on Dec 7, 2006 4:05 AM EST Comment 23 comments

http://atlanta.braves.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20061206&content_id=1752752&vk ey=news_atl&fext=.jsp&c_id=atl

If Horatio is all it takes to net a young fireball reliever on the cusp of closing, would not the Indians have some arms to deal? (Byrd, Stanford, Guthrie come to mind. . . i.e. a proven starter and a potential starter, or some mix thereof). If Soriano has been available, why not a single rumor that the Tribe is after him? Shapiro obviously has had no problem working with Seattle in the past.
One could argue that Soriano = an expensive Cabrera with an injury history, but when healthy, he's dominant:
http://seattle.mariners.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player.jsp?player_id=400089

Seattle lost out on Schmidt, and have plenty of cash to spend. Horatio has two good (middle rotation) seasons to his name (2003, 2005) mixed in with injuries and mediocrity.
And would anyone really mind going with Fausto in the rotation instead of Byrd?

Any thoughts?

0 recs | Comment 23 comments

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Comments

Re: Did Shapiro miss this one?

I was shocked when I saw this one. Schuerholtz made off like a bandit. Would've been nice to get Soriano.

If I had a nickel for every time I heard "...and Victor Martinez grounds into a double play", i'd be rich.

by Rayman on Dec 7, 2006 4:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Did Shapiro miss this one?

My thoughts exactly.
I guess one could argue that Horatio = Cliff Lee (and we don't trade Lee for Soriano), but that comparison is not entirely accurate until Ramirez takes the ball every 5 days for a few years in a row.

by DocNo on Dec 7, 2006 4:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Did Shapiro miss this one?

Ramirez - expected salary $3 million in arbitration.

Byrd - $8 million.

Seattle has huge contracts on Sexson and Beltre that they're saddled with. Even if Cleveland offered Byrd, they would likely have turned it down. We likely would not offer Westbrook or Lee, because Soriano has also had injury issues in the past.

Carmona? Given how much time Carmona will be under team control, it is not likely we would have offered him for an injury-prone reliever.

The other thing this means is that Putz is off the market, if indeed he was ever on the market.

July 28, 2006 - The Andy Marte Era officially begins. Proud to be the unofficial Andy Marte Apologist.

by woodsmeister on Dec 7, 2006 8:27 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Did Shapiro miss this one?

I don't think DocNo was suggesting that we offer Carmona for a trade. Instead he just wanted to put Fausto in the rotation so that we could trade Byrd or Lee.

by UndeniableMagistrate on Dec 7, 2006 9:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Did Shapiro miss this one?

My point here is that we didn't have a fit for what Seattle wanted - cheap starting pitching that we were willing to give up. Byrd's too expensive and there's no good reason to give up Lee or Westbrook for a high injury-risk guy - that would be a significant overpayment.

Sometimes, you just don't have a fit for what the other team needs. I have a hard time imagining that given the Tribe's need that Shapiro was not talking consistently with the Mariners about Soriano and Putz and just couldn't find the right match.

July 28, 2006 - The Andy Marte Era officially begins. Proud to be the unofficial Andy Marte Apologist.

by woodsmeister on Dec 7, 2006 9:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Did Shapiro miss this one?

Right Undeniable, I was not suggesting Fausto for Soriano. . .just that we plug him in the rotation and see how it goes.
Otherwise, Woodsmeister has a salient point. Just because no one leaked it does not mean that they were not exploring a trade here. They probably just could not find a suitable match.
I too had considered Byrd's salary as unbalancing the scale, but just thought I would toss it out there.

by DocNo on Dec 7, 2006 9:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Did Shapiro miss this one?

And since we kind of baked them on the last two trades, maybe Seattle didn't necessarily want to deal with us again so soon. Who knows. Could be plenty of reasons.

by talonk on Dec 7, 2006 12:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Did Shapiro miss this one?

Why would you assume Shapiro DIDN'T talk to Seattle about this? It's an old cliche, but I think you're forgetting it: For every trade made, there were 100 others that fell through.

I don't think there's a good reliever in baseball that Shapiro didn't at least inquire about.

by nickjs21 on Dec 7, 2006 1:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Re: Did Shapiro miss this one?

Right.
Agreed.
Thread closed.

by DocNo on Dec 7, 2006 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Did Shapiro miss this one?

I assume Shapiro doesn't like Soriano's injury history and/or he isn't comfortable with a FA starter/putting Carmona in the rotation. Hes also been spending all his time recruiting old relievers and a "utility" OFer.

by Brandini on Dec 7, 2006 3:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Did Shapiro miss this one?

Right, I seem to recall reading that he was only interested in acquiring people over the age of 35 because "they run funny when it is cold." <sarc> Give the guy some credit. He has done a good job so far in bolstering the pen and getting a 2nd baseman while still saving money to extend the guys we need to extend.

Wait 'til next year... or something like that

by fwembt on Dec 7, 2006 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Did Shapiro miss this one?

"they run funny when it is cold."
No, we run funny all the time.

Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Dec 7, 2006 4:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Did Shapiro miss this one?

I'll grade the "bolstering the pen" as "fair" to this point. Could it be better? Yes. Could it be worse? Yes.
When given the grade of "fair" that means hes essentially "done his job".
I do like what he has done with the Barfield deal, but it may look poor in 3 years if Marte fails, Kouz suceeds and Brown becomes reliable.

by Brandini on Dec 7, 2006 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Did Shapiro miss this one?

I had a hunch that this thread wasn't closed yet.

July 28, 2006 - The Andy Marte Era officially begins. Proud to be the unofficial Andy Marte Apologist.

by woodsmeister on Dec 7, 2006 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Did Shapiro miss this one?

Post of the week nominee!

-Erik

by drerikbrady on Dec 7, 2006 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Did Shapiro miss this one?

One of these days, I'm actually going to start keeping track of the nominations and hold a vote for the winner ...

by Jay on Dec 7, 2006 4:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Did Shapiro miss this one?

I haven't seen a nominee for a while to be honest.

-Erik

by drerikbrady on Dec 7, 2006 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Did Shapiro miss this one?

I gotta come up with some zingers, I never get nominated <sarc>

by talonk on Dec 7, 2006 4:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Did Shapiro miss this one?

I made Jay snort and had a beverage coming out of his nose once, that was a good day. And that didn't even get nominated.

-Erik

by drerikbrady on Dec 7, 2006 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Did Shapiro miss this one?

When was that?

Did you used to be funny?

by Jay on Dec 7, 2006 8:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Did Shapiro miss this one?

I went back and looked it up, it was when I accused Wedge of mishandling Jaret Wright from the future.

-Erik

by drerikbrady on Dec 7, 2006 10:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Did Shapiro miss this one?

Oh, yeah, that was damned funny.

by Jay on Dec 8, 2006 7:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Re: Did Shapiro miss this one?

See, told you I used to be funny.

-Erik

by drerikbrady on Dec 8, 2006 9:14 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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