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Hafner ----> We are fortunate

I came across this today. ITs funny, because a couple days ago I was thinking the exact same thing.

"Travis Hafner. Congrats to GM Mark Shapiro and his guys for locking up Hafner on what one agent called the "worst player contract in baseball.'' The fellow with perhaps the best numbers in the AL will make $4 million this year and $5 million next, making him underpaid by at least half."

Source: CNNSI

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Re: Hafner ----> We are fortunate
He will want -- and get -- PAID in the near future. Start the talks now!

by JulioBernazard on Dec 8, 2006 2:33 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Hafner ----> We are fortunate
I agree... PLEASE DO NOT let him become a free agent

by Gladiator on Dec 8, 2006 5:12 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Hafner ----> We are fortunate
who would you perfer to sign to a long term contract Hafner or CC, I don't think we will be able to sign both.
Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Dec 8, 2006 5:33 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Hafner ----> We are fortunate
As much as it pains me to think we will lose one of them, I think it would be CC. He is going to want a ton of $$ and a lot of years.

Based on the talent we have coming into our system, my guess is that we can fill in a gap in the rotation better than finding another slugger. AMiller could be a ace type starter. Maybe Lofgren and Lewis could too. Who knows, but I think one of them will develop enough to be a solid one if need be (they may not be Santana, but who is?).

I can't think of a bat in the system who could put up 90% of Hafners output. If we didn't resign him, we could always trade for a power bat, but I don't think the FO really wants to do that either.

by talonk on Dec 8, 2006 6:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I really want to keep CC, but...
Hello everyone,

but I can see your argument for keeping Hafner.  I'd really love to see CC and Miller teamed together - that could potentially give the Indians one of the best 1-2 punches in the league, even being able to tangle with Santana/Liriano (presuming Liriano returns to his previous form - a sizable IF at this point.)

I wish Dolan would step up to the plate and resign both, but I doubt that will happen.  If CC is the one to go, I would hope the Indians would get a TON for him at the right time.  

However, it doesn't hurt to start talking to both of them now and see if an extension can be worked out with one or both of them (I can dream, right?  :-)

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Dec 8, 2006 9:19 PM EST reply actions  

Re: I really want to keep CC, but...
Something else to consider is that if we extend C.C., he'll become a five-and-ten guy after 2010.  That substantially increases the chance that we get hamstrung at some point by his contract -- look at the Phillies' situation with Abreu.

Hafner won't be a five-and-ten guy until the end of the 2012 season, presumably at or near the end of any contract extension we'd give him.  That's another factor making him the likelier of the two to be extended.

As long as players don't get a trade veto, it makes sense to lock up almost any premium player to a below-market salary when you can.  I believe Shapiro will make a hard run at locking up Hafner, and probably Sabathia as well.

by Jay on Dec 9, 2006 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Hafner ----> We are fortunate
Hey, Tom Hanks is a big Indians fan, maybe he would make a donation to the cause?  Seriously though, there's no excuse for Dolan to not put up the money to keep C.C. AND Hafner.  You don't just let your two franchise players (Grady not included here) walk away because you're cheap.  Re-sign these guys or get out of town Dolan, it's as simple as that.

by Pronk33 on Dec 8, 2006 11:10 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Hafner ----> We are fortunate
"You don't just let your two franchise players ...walk away because you're cheap."
If I was a Yankee's or Red Sox fan I'd agree with you, but I'm not.  The Indians just do not have the kind of resources necessary to have that philosophy.  What happened to Thome, Ramirez and Belle, three "franchise players"?  The truth of the matter is that Cleveland Indians economics dictate that we cannot keep franchise players past their first post-arbitration contract.  The Tribe's MO established by Hart in the 90's and continued by Shapiro is to develop good, young players, sign them to longish contracts a year or two before they're eligible for arbitration and let them go after that contract expires.  Hafner and CC are in their post-arbitration contract phase and will probably be gone when that contract expires.

As our history has shown, that's not necessarily a bad thing.  To sign Belle to the kind of contract that the White Sox did, guaranteeing that he would be among the top five paid players in baseball would have been catastrophic for the team's future.  Matching the Red Sox offer to Ramirez would arguably cripple the franchise also.  Thome's Phillie contract would have looked good for the first year and disastrous in the second.  

So given Hafner's history of elbow and back problems and CC's weight (I can't recall a 300 lb+ pitcher pitching into his late 30's) I say: stick with the plan.  Rely on our farm system to develop good young players and use our more valuable veterans to acquire prospects.  The Colon for Lee, Phillips and Sizemore trade is the prototype.  I realize it will be very difficult to duplicate, but that's the kind of FO moves that the Indians will need in the future to stay competitive.

by mauichuck on Dec 9, 2006 11:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Hafner ----> We are fortunate
CCs weight - Boomer is close, isnt he?

The Philips, Sizemore and Lee trade I believe could be duplicated.  Hafner is THAT good and teams are THAT desperate for starting pitching - especially lefties.
However with the Indians competing and no real alternates, I'm not sure I see a trade in the future.

by Brandini on Dec 9, 2006 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Hafner ----> We are fortunate
I would double the payroll if Hafner and CC needed it.

I think both of them would be relatively easy signings.  Not cheap.  But easy.  Both will want a significant raise, but would be more than happy to stay in Cleveland if the offer is made.

If it came down to it though... Hafner.  Make sure we've got some good SP prospects in the minors now.

by nickjs21 on Dec 9, 2006 12:30 AM EST reply actions  

Re: Hafner ----> We are fortunate
I wouldn't doubt the true "home team discount".  CC is from the left coast, and if a team like SD, LA, LAA or SF make a bid for him and its near what Cleveland offers - assuming other powerhouses don't get involved - I could see him moving west.

by Brandini on Dec 9, 2006 11:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Hafner ----> We are fortunate
I doubt that either Hafner or Sabathia are likely to sign this year.

They will have more leverage closer to the end of their contracts, as well as being able to evaluate the situation in Cleveland better.

Since they won't get a significant discount for signing them now, the Indians won't want to take on the additional years of risk so long before they have to.  A lot can change in 2 years.

by palcal on Dec 9, 2006 12:37 AM EST reply actions  

Re: Hafner ----> We are fortunate
Yeah.  For example, look at average MLB salaries two years ago.

by mjmarble on Dec 9, 2006 10:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Hafner ----> We are fortunate
I'm not advocating trading either one this year or next, but when they have 2 years or less on their current contracts.

As to CC's vs. Boomer's weight, Boomer's not even close if you believe ESPN:

Proper Name: David Lee Wells
Born: May 20, 1963
Torrance, CA
Height: 6-3
Weight: 248 lbs

Proper Name: Carsten Charles Sabathia
Born: July 21, 1980
Vallejo, CA
Height: 6-7
Weight: 290 lbs.

And CC's still growing!!

Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on Dec 9, 2006 12:17 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Hafner ----> We are fortunate
As much as I'd like to sign both to long term deals, I think it would cripple our future too much. Look at how the Giants struggle because they keep forking over $15-20M to Bonds per year. They just don't have enough $$ left over to fill out the rest of the roster.

by talonk on Dec 9, 2006 2:25 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Hafner ----> We are fortunate
My point exactly!  The Tribe has limited resources and must rely on the skill of their FO to trade expensive veterans for prospects and identity key core players and sign them to 3-6 year deals.  

Thank God Cashman's an idiot, otherwise the Yankees would win the WS every year!

Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on Dec 9, 2006 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Hafner ----> We are fortunate
"Thank God Cashman's an idiot, otherwise the Yankees would win the WS every year!"

I agree with that.  The idea of the Yankees with a farm system like ours (and they are quickly approaching that level) scares the hell out of me.

Also, I think Cashman may be smarter than you give him credit for.  Steinbrenner seemed to have had him on a short leash and called a lot of the shots during those $200 million seasons.  Has anyone else noticed a more conservative approach by the yankees lately?  

by Pronk33 on Dec 9, 2006 5:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Hafner ----> We are fortunate
Agree.  I hate Bonds and SF for keeping him in the game and paying him way to much money all the while giving baseball the stigma of a bunch of juiced up money hungry selfish players.  

by bjd2 on Dec 12, 2006 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Hafner ----> We are fortunate
Why hate Bonds and SF?  Barry has never tested positive.

Mota did test positive, and the Mets did give him $5 million.

by Jay on Dec 12, 2006 11:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Hafner ----> We are fortunate
From the same column on CNNSI:

The Yankees are willing to give Shea Hillenbrand $5 million on a one-year deal but Hillenbrand reportedly has two-year options elsewhere. Maybe the Yankees should ditch their idea to get a righthanded hitter for first base and try to reacquire Nick Johnson. Just an idea: How about Humberto Sanchez for Johnson?

Has anyone heard the Indians come up in talks for Hillenbrand? I think he would be a great fit with a much needed right-handed bat that can play multiple positions (1b and 3b, and he caught in the minors, and I think he's even played some outfield).

by emn316 on Dec 9, 2006 2:27 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Hafner ----> We are fortunate
Hillenbrand is a stiff.  We have plenty of right-handed bats.

by Jay on Dec 9, 2006 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Hafner ----> We are fortunate
Several years ago a lot of us thought of Hafner as a far cry from Thome.  I know I did.
Lock up Hafner, but not by ALL means.

by homelytourist on Dec 9, 2006 2:44 PM EST reply actions  

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