Sunday Roundup
I'm not too interested in rehashing the topic from last week, but I at least have to mention this fan's response:
I agree that the public relations dilemma has grown into a stigma that shouldn't be ignored.
Shapiro's approach has been, basically, screw the PR, just win and the fans will come. In general, he obviously is right about this, but is it really absolute? And if not, where is the limit? At what point do you say, maybe all these smart moves really can hurt us in ticket sales?
Maybe Dolan needs to spend a half-million on a clever PR firm that can help him figure out how to get out of this box. Or maybe they just need to find a new, cool nickname for another player -- and then don't trade him.
Jay S. Levin
Dear Jay:
Let me start the ball rolling. How about A-Rod or Rocket? Those aren't taken yet, are they?
S.O.
Well, it's obvious the Indians have realized that the Cool Nickname Average (heretofore referred to as CNA) is a key factor to getting fans to attend. Just look at the players they've added recently: Juan Valdes, Bubbie Buzachero, Doodle Hicks, Boodle Clark, Ben Francisco, and of course, they wouldn't have traded for plain 'ol Travis Hafner if he didn't have a cool nickname.
Because the Indians, besides the defense they lost, definitely downgraded the CNA, they need to think about coming up with a new cool nickname for Jason Michaels or Paul Byrd to help compensate. I wouldn't doubt if you got hold of Dolan's books, you'd probably find under Expenses a line item called "Nickname Procurement Expense." After all, that's what brings fans to the ballpark.
But on-base percentage isn't everything. A better measurement of a hitter's value is how often he gets himself into scoring position (by double, triple, homer, steal).
Michaels doesn't run and doesn't amass many extra-base hits. In the past two years, he has gotten himself to second or beyond only 18 percent of the time he reaches base. Crisp, by contrast, has reached second or farther 34 percent of time, a substantial difference over a 550-at-bat season.
And I return to my original point. If the team faces a backlash from the fans (in the form of withheld support at the gate), it doesn't really matter who's right and who's wrong.
S.O.
"Sheldon, Buster Olney on Line Two. He wants to break out a new stat...the Getting to Second Base Percentage (GSB%). And he wants to credit you for coming up with it!"
The next question, obviously, is why Ocker failed to mention that Michaels scored a higher percentage of runs than Crisp did last season. Surely it had nothing to do with Michaels getting on base at a higher clip.
Word is that Roger Brown wrote a Sunday column, but I can't substantiate it. Sorry, I know you're disappointed.
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Re: Sunday Roundup
Re: Sunday Roundup
Just goes to show ... some people just don't want to know. They like their weak grasp of reality just the way it is.
Re: Sunday Roundup
I have been more stimulated, excited, and informed by the stats, information, and opinions of Ryan and Jay of letsgotribe.com and other baseball blogs in their short history on the Web than by the years of columns by Sheldon Ocker and his fellow local sports columnists.
It's not even close.
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Also, as I'm sure you all know, Bro Jay included, was that Michaels' RC/27 was higher than Coco's last year -- 6.08 to 5.80.
I wrote Sheldon this afternoon to show him these things. I also directed him to this blog. It would be kind of interesting to see him as a member.
BTW, missin' the idle banter on the Tribe List Jay... It's just not the same anymore. Although I do enjoy the blog. Keep up the good work fellas.
by Chris @ Let's Go Tribe! on Feb 12, 2006 7:59 PM EST reply actions
Re: Sunday Roundup
Poppycock. Fans didn't come last year until August. And Coco was live and in person every night.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Feb 12, 2006 9:34 PM EST reply actions
Re: Sunday Roundup
Ocker sounds like part of a throng egging on jumpers off the Golden Gate bridge. "Jump, jump, jump (on Kevin Millwood for $60 million, or Trevor Hoffman...give the man $30 million...why do I care!)"
Then after Dolan overpays for the next Lawton, he'll be first in line to stone him.
I'm not in Cleveland, but what is this hard-on Ocker and the pundits have against Dolan? From this vantage, the team appears to be spending quite wisely.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Feb 12, 2006 9:52 PM EST reply actions
Re: Sunday Roundup
Re: Sunday Roundup
One minute, they are praising Shapiro's adherance to the Blueprint. The next, they want Manny Ramirez at $20M a year.
If the Indians had Colon, Ramirez, Thome, and Robbie Alomar, we'd be 80 wins with all the name recognition Ocker and Hoynes could dream of. Would they be happy then?
Damned if you do, damned if you don't...right?
If 93 wins doesn't please them, I don't know what does.
by rick @ Let's Go Tribe! on Feb 12, 2006 10:50 PM EST up reply actions
Re: Sunday Roundup
Equal plug time ... rick writes the Indians reports for Most Valuable Network, also worth a read ... http://indians.mostvaluablenetwork.com/ ... sure is nice to have everyone hanging out here. I assume it's because we have the biggest TV and the best liquor.
Re: Sunday Roundup
But, you guys did it. Succinctly and effectively.
I heard Ocker on the radio a few weeks ago about this 2nd base theory and was apalled by it. He didn't get to 2nd base as much as Coco?!? I'll contact Michael Lewis and see if he wants Sheldon to be the basis of Moneyball II.
When will any local paper print some logical thoughts on the Indians, without cowtowing to the ignorant majority, and their fickle emotions?
Re: Sunday Roundup
Responding to this, and to ploni's nice comments above ... I think you would agree, DiaTriber, that as Indians bloggers we are simply serving a different audience than the newspapers. A very different audience.
Our audience is diehard fans, but not only that, our audience is people who really want to read more stuff in-depth about the Indians, who really want to understand things more in-depth.
Is it possible that this posture becomes more the norm over time? Yeah, I guess, but I'm not holding my breath.
For those who don't know, "The DiaTribe" (wish I'd thought of it first) is another great Indians blog worth checking out ... http://clevelandtribeblog.blogspot.com/
Re: Sunday Roundup
They need to hire two people to cover the team. One to describe the game, the scoring, who stole what base when, and add the usual pablum about "we have to put that one behind us and focus on the next game" and "we just take them one at a time." You know, the stuff that Kevin Costner was teaching Tim Robbins in the back of the bus.
A second writer would do what Jay and Ryan do. Write intelligently about the decisions, mistakes, the play, and step back and analyze the strategy behind it. That second person doesn't have to interact with the team or the players at all. Just watch the games and listen and write.
Interaction with the players or management warps writers' reasoning. If anyone has read Rob Neyer can attest, whenever he talks with management or officials, he loses his nerve. These days he seems to pull his punches regarding the Kansas City Royals after he met GM Allard Baird. Now he is playing nice with old time scouts after he met a bunch of them recently.
Maybe that is the function Terry Pluto serves for the Journal?
by Bogalusa Bomber on Feb 13, 2006 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
Re: Sunday Roundup
Pluto writes about every team, and as far as I know talks to everybody a lot. Which is fine, because it allows him to talk about what wants to talk about.
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Another good reason for a second writer who doesn't have to deal with that stuff every day. Somebody needs to tell truth to power.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Feb 13, 2006 3:44 AM EST up reply actions
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by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on Feb 13, 2006 9:03 AM EST up reply actions
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The Most Public Of My Many Humiliations
Posted By Joe Gartrell On 25th July 2004 @ 11:30 In Tribe Report | No Comments
I'm not my favorite Cleveland Indians writer. Sheldon Ocker of The Akron Beacon Journal is. Sometimes I write to Sheldon. A lot of people do. We write to Sheldon, he gives us the golden word, and sometimes he publishes our letters and his responses in the Sunday edition of The Journal. We write to Sheldon, say, on a Tuesday afternoon, when a Tribe question seeps out of our bones and rattles around in our skulls. We type up a letter, send it off, and then all week we worry that maybe we misspelled a word or fired off an embarrassing malapropism. We worry that Sheldon will think we're stupid, or, worse, that we don't know bunk about the Indians.
Finally, Sunday dawdles around. We fix coffee and are wearing sweatpants. Our hair is an unruly mess. We open the paper and see our name. We feel like Lou Merloni when the fans bellow, "Loouuuuu." But quickly, we realize, the fans aren't saying, "Lou." They're booing. Sheldon has disgraced us in the paper.
On a Sunday morning in April, Akron residents awoke to find me impaled, another Ocker victim, in their town square. To them, my skewered head must have been an unsettling sight. The look on the face seemingly frozen while shifting from elation to terror.
For you, reader, I have copied and pasted that horrific transaction with Ocker:
Mr. Ocker:
I've written in the past, suggesting sobriquets for Indians players (example: Jim Humble Assassin Thome, Juan El Conquistador Gonzales) and am assuming you'd like to know how central Ohio will be addressing our first baseman/ DH Travis Hafner. Hope you like it: Travis Half Empty.
Joe Gartrell
Columbus
Dear Joe:
First, your assumption is incorrect.
Second, I think you should tell Travis his new moniker face to face. Maybe he could come up with an appropriate name for you, like Joe "Black Eye, Broken Nose, Fractured Jaw'' Gartrell.
S.O.
by thetravishalffull on Feb 12, 2006 10:29 PM EST reply actions
Re: Sunday Roundup
"...we worry that maybe we misspelled a word or fired off an embarrassing malapropism. We worry that Sheldon will think we're stupid, or, worse, that we don't know bunk about the Indians."
Hell, I feel that way every time I hit Enter on this blog! <grin>
Lot's of bright people here, people who use acronyms I've never heard of. The only thing I have they don't is that I remember Sam Dente playing SS for the Indians.
by LeftyCatcher on Feb 13, 2006 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
Re: Sunday Roundup
I think the key words here are "of the time he reaches base". After all, what good is reaching second base more often, if you are on base less often?
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by Bogalusa Bomber on Feb 13, 2006 1:26 AM EST up reply actions
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And I said, "Well, I can't write him about just anything. I'm only going to write him about something I think he'll be interested in. And I can only write him things that I think he can understand."
And my brother kind of cracked up at this point in the conversation, and I had to stop myself and sort of rewind my own comment and think about it a moment. Did I really mean what I just said? Can that really be right?
And it is right. I am careful when writing local baseball writers (not just Sheldon) not to discuss things that they won't understand. I won't talk to them about VORP or WARP or Win Shares or anything like that. I might sneak in an OPS reference, but that's about it. My assumption is that these writers don't know about that stuff, don't want to know about it ... and in fact will mock anyone who does know about it. (Of course, they can obsess over stats 24/7, too. HR, RBI, batting average.)
So that's what I wanted to share. It isn't that Sheldon is writing is below the level of your favorite baseball bloggers. It's worse than that. His writing is below the level of OUR READERS. I would write things in this blog -- to all of you -- that I would NEVER write to Sheldon, or Paul Hoynes, or certainly any of the crusty luddites here in Philly.
You can write to these guys. But you have to use really small words.
Re: Sunday Roundup
One of the reasons that I started blogging and getting into the blogging community is because the depth and analysis of the local papers was so superficial and not very insightful (Terry Pluto being the obvious exception).
Thank goodness for this site, Rick's, and the CIR (when the granddaddy of 'em all posts) because it makes me feel a little better that there are other people in this world who sit in traffic and wonder if Jason Davis should add another pitch to become a starter or concentrate on 2 pitches and pitch out of the bullpen.
I've always thought that there must be other people like me, for whom the Indians falls somewhere between hobby and obsession (probably closer to obsession).
Just wanted to get that off my chest as an answer to my bride who asked me why exactly I blog and why I spend so much time wondering who the 4th outfielder will be.
Thanks for making my passion seem a little more normal.
by The DiaTriber on Feb 14, 2006 9:06 AM EST up reply actions
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However, like Leftycatcher (and perhaps Sheldon as Jay suggests) I don't know all the ancroyms, like VORP and WARP. So, since I am a life-time learner, where would I find definitions and statistics?
Re: Sunday Roundup
Also, if you (and anyone else new to this school of thought) are interested in reading up on some of the basics of sabermetrics, go to BaseballProspectus.com and click the "About" tab. There's quite a few articles, but it's a very interesting read.
Kos
by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on Feb 15, 2006 7:05 AM EST up reply actions
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The issue people always have with statistics is that they think stats are trying to paint and entirely new picture. I say statistics are a way of enhancing baseball, to give you a clearer view of the game. Not to distort what happens on the field, but to clarify it.
Re: Sunday Roundup
The basis for many of the calculations ties into Brad's stock question - from 1998 to 2000 the Indians had to file financial disclosures with the SEC in conjunction with their stock offering.
by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on Feb 14, 2006 12:38 AM EST reply actions
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by Bogalusa Bomber on Feb 15, 2006 8:42 PM EST reply actions
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If I were the Plain Dealer, or the Akron Beacon Journal at the time, I'd have printed the whole kit and caboodle and put bubble comments by financial/sports business specialists/Terry Pluto all over it. Would have made a fascinating read. Sorry for the digression. You may go back to reading Sheldon now.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Feb 15, 2006 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
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by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on Feb 16, 2006 4:21 PM EST up reply actions

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