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Around SBN: How A Letter From Tom Coughlin Helped One Fan's Recovery

Lessons from Dock Ellis

"Furthermore, the team now seemed intimidated by Cincinnati's "Big Red Machine." "Cincinnati will bullshit with us and kick our ass and laugh at us," Ellis said. "They're the only team that talk about us like a dog." Ellis single-handedly decided to break the Pirates out of their emotional slump, announcing that "We gonna get down. We gonna do the do. I'm going to hit these motherfuckers." True to his word, in the first inning of the first regular-season game he pitched against the Reds, Ellis hit leadoff batter Pete Rose in the ribs, then plunked Joe Morgan in the kidney, and loaded the bases by hitting Dan Driessen in the back. Tony Perez, batting cleanup, dodged a succession of Ellis' pitches to walk and force in a run. The next hitter was Johnny Bench. "I tried to deck him twice," Ellis recalled. "I threw at his jaw, and he moved. I threw at the back of his head, and he moved." At this point, Pittsburgh manager Danny Murtaugh removed Ellis from the game. But his strategy worked: the Pirates snapped out of their lethargy to win a division title in 1974, while the Reds failed to win their division for the first time in three years."

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Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
A pitcher hits 2 guys in row today and he's long gone and he and the manager possibly get suspended for several games.  The players today make too much money and will not tolerate being drilled and risking injury.

by SpringTrainingFun on Apr 3, 2006 10:06 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
You miss the point that the others below have seemed to grasp.

Still though . . . let's apply the Dock Ellis example literally in 2006.  What happens when Buehrle beams Hafner again?  

Walt Hriniak ruined me.

by Cory Snyder on Apr 3, 2006 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
If Hafner gets beaned by Buerhle again, I would expect someone from the pale hose to take a fastball in the ribs in the ensuing 2 innings.  If this scenario does play out, I hope it's someone like Cabrera or Brown who gets the opportunity to paint Thome with a 98 mph heater.  That would be nice.

My earlier comment was that in today's game, you can't go out there on the bump and throw at every hitter.  The game simply is not played that way.  Back in the days of Bob Gibson, if you hit a dinger off him, you were going to catch one in the ribs or have one aimed at your head regardless if you were a nice guy or not.  That simply is not tolerated today.

by SpringTrainingFun on Apr 3, 2006 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
Dock Ellis also supposedly pitched a game high on LSD, for whatever that's worth.

However, the point is well taken.  Before the game started last night, I had the feeling that the Indians really wanted to set the tone byt really taking it to the Sox.  All I seemed to hear during the last two Spring Training games was how anxious they were to get started.  Despite the outcome of the game, I liked what I saw from some players.  I think CC had a lot of pressure on him to perform well, and I think he handled it well.  I wish he didn't get hurt and that there was no rain delay.  Because of it, the game was suddenly thrust upon veteran trying to make a comback and a young player trying to keep things together.  I also liked Michael's hustle... it just looks like the guy plays all out.  Offensively, I think a lot of things rely on Sizemore's ability to get things going.  Back in the day, it always seemed that if Lofton played well, the Indians followed suit.

Just some thoughts.

by Slovenc0417 @ Let's Go Tribe! on Apr 3, 2006 10:23 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
By what standard did CC handle the pressure well?  He pitched 2 and a third innings and gave up 3 runs.  Then he got hurt.  I mean, he wasn't openly weeping on the mound, so that's a plus, but I would say CC's  night was the most discouraging thing about the whole game.

by rog on Apr 3, 2006 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
Two infield singles, a bloop and an RBI groundout.  Anderon's double was the only hard contact he allowed.  He was pitching just fine.

by Jay on Apr 3, 2006 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
He was fine, sure, but it wasn't anything unusually great.  

I just think he needs to lose some weight.  The older he gets, the harder it's going to be for him to carry that around.  I think he's been healthy because he has a pretty smooth delivery.  I know he's never going to be 240, but there has to be a happy medium between what he and LeBron weigh.

by rog on Apr 3, 2006 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
 I know he's never going to be 240, but there has to be a happy medium between what he and LeBron weigh.

LeBron?  I will settle for LeCharles.

by Bernie19Kosar on Apr 5, 2006 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
The injury was obviously the discouraging part of the evening.  But I feel he was in command up to that point.  I understand it's nearly pointless to feel good about a start that lasted 2-1/3 innings, but I liked the way he attacked the hitters last night.  It looked to me that CC was prepared mentally for the game.  That was my only point.  

It's always hard to say how an athlete's physicality relates to his health.

Jay, maybe you can share some insight based on your discussion with Will Carroll.

There certainly have been athletes that are physical specimens that continually get hurt, i.e. Ken Griffey Jr. I always remember Belle getting worked over by the trainer in the outfield before every game.  I'm not saying it's as simple as stretching properly, but there has to be something he can do.

by Slovenc0417 @ Let's Go Tribe! on Apr 3, 2006 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
There certainly have been athletes that are physical specimens that continually get hurt

Eric Davis is another one that comes to mind.

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on Apr 3, 2006 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
He didn't just pitch a game on acid, he pitched a no-hitter on acid.

by gogiggs on Apr 3, 2006 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
And the semi-official singer/songwriter of baseball, Chuck Brodsky, wrote a great song about it which you can hear on his album, "The Baseball Ballads."

by woodsmeister on Apr 5, 2006 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
Strangely, I liked what I saw out of the Tribe last night.  I thought C.C. was really humming -- didn't allow a legit baserunner for the first two innings and basically earned eight outs.

Micheals made a few great plays, on a totally drenched field.  Boone also looked great.

by Jay on Apr 3, 2006 10:38 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
Jay, I saw you mentioned last night that Michaels has a good arm.  Where do you get that conclusion ?  I saw the guy play 9 times this spring and he was throwing rainbows in from LF.  I'm not trying to lambast Michaels because he does play hard, but I don't see him having the arm strength that you claim.

by SpringTrainingFun on Apr 3, 2006 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
He has enough arm for CF and RF, a little better than Sizemore's.  I wouldn't call it a canon, but his arm is significantly better than Crisp's.

by Jay on Apr 3, 2006 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
"significantly better than Crisp's"

I strongly disagree, but it matters not.  Crisp is history.  

by SpringTrainingFun on Apr 3, 2006 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
I've watched both players in CF quite a bit -- 100-plus games each -- and I can tell you that Crisp's arm noticeably did not play well at that position, and Michaels looks pretty good anywhere.  Give it a few months and I think you might agree.

by Jay on Apr 3, 2006 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
I don't care how Crisp throws from CF - as he was a LF for the Indians - and Michaels took his spot in LF.  That said, we'll see how the two compare as the season progresses.  I hope you're right.

by SpringTrainingFun on Apr 3, 2006 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
I don't get how you can say Coco has a better arm than Michaels since Crisp's arm is well below average. Go read any scouting report on him. I don't think he's ever played RF (even in the minors) for that very reason. He's not quite Johnny Damon, but Coco's thrown plenty of rainbows in his day.

Kos

by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on Apr 3, 2006 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
Where did I say that Crisp has a better arm than Michaels ?  

Jay claims that Michael's arm is "significantly better" than Crisp's.  

That is what I'm disputing.  I hope I'm wrong.

by SpringTrainingFun on Apr 3, 2006 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
One thing I lost in the Davis/Brown/Graves/Karsay discussion is the idea of a long reliever.  I don't remember considering that angle, and it doesn't look like the Indians didn't think it was important.  Brandon McCarthy was the perfect guy to bring out after a rain delay.  Jason Davis would have been also.  Yes, yes, all hindsight now.  But is an April rain delay really a surprise?

by dgcambridge on Apr 3, 2006 10:48 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
Graves, Cabrera and Betancourt all can and have gone multiple innings.  And there is always the minor-league revolving door method.  I actually agree that the long-man idea is not necessary if you have a ten-man bullpen extending into the minors.

by Jay on Apr 3, 2006 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
Saw the title of the Diary and was a little worried about the Tribe's direction this year!  Dock was actually so stoned when he threw a no hitter that he lost a full day.  Basically, his wife told him he needed to get to the park because he was pitching.  "No, I'm not pitching until Friday."  "Today is Friday."  Different time back then, huh?

I think we all know that the first priority has to be to get off to a good start. The past two Aprils have been disaster.

On the long reliever, I think you build a bullpen based on your strenghs.  And I think the FO really does not want Davis to be a 3-4 inning pitcher anymore.  So we have a bunch of 2 inning guys, with more available in Buffalo.  That's OK -- better than force fitting someone into the role.

by Buzz on Apr 3, 2006 11:17 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
It's all human growth hormone these days.

by rog on Apr 3, 2006 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
According to Chevy Chase in Fletch, "everythings ball bearings these days..."

by SpringTrainingFun on Apr 3, 2006 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
50 bonus points for picking that up.

by rog on Apr 3, 2006 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
Knocking off 25 style points for the overt citation.  If you catch it, you throw back a quote.  Maybe you boys need a refresher course.

by Jay on Apr 3, 2006 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
Put it in an addendum to the "Ground Rules for Posting."

by rog on Apr 3, 2006 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Lessons from Dock Ellis
Well, I'm not even sure its a crime anymore.  there have been a lot of changes to the law.

by Buzz on Apr 3, 2006 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

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