Bye! See ya in 2007!

by SuddenSam on Jun 17, 2006 11:23 PM EDT

Thanks, Ryan.

Thanks, Jay.

Bye all, see ya (maybe) next year. Better things to do now. There was some promise to this season. Last year was way cool. This year, well, the last week won't mean so much.

Mark: Think about the bullpen, okay?

Say hi to Markos, too. Viva Las Vegas! Viva la Stratosphere!

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Re: Bye! See ya in 2007!

He'll be back. He just needs some air.

by Jay on Jun 18, 2006 12:10 AM EDT 0 recs

I think we all need some fresh air!

Hello Sudden Sam and Jay,

Jay - I think we all need fresh air - this season is really getting "stale." It's like a bad rendition of "Groundhog Day"; repeating the same performances over and over again:

Get great pitching, get shoddy offense, add in a pinch of weak defense and a Wickman mess, and what do you get?

Another uninspiring loss. Yuk!

Like many have said or implied, let's build toward 2007; I think we'd need a miracle more miraculous than last season to make the playoffs in 2006.

Just my 2 cents. :-)

Take care and keep the "faith" for 2007!

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Jun 18, 2006 12:17 AM EDT 0 recs

Re: Bye! See ya in 2007!

Well, I know the feeliing. Unfortunatley I'm addicted to baseball and the Indians. Every game is a new beginning, evey day I think, this is the day we turn it around.

Come late July or August, when all is lost, this team is going to bust out and play great, stringing some impressive winning streaks together and moving up in the standings...but the hole will be too deep and we'll end the season once again thinking "If only..."

That will be the legacy of the Shapiro/Wedge administration. "If only..."

by LeftyCatcher on Jun 18, 2006 9:45 AM EDT 0 recs

Re: Bye! See ya in 2007!

At this point I think we'd all just like to see some positive progress. Releasing or trading some dead weight (we all know the list of suspects) and calling up some of the young talent to see if they are for real. And the 40 man needs a major overhaul right now. I know patience is supposed to be a virtue but this is ridiculous.

by exileincincy on Jun 18, 2006 12:21 PM EDT 0 recs

Re: Bye! See ya in 2007!

I agree with pretty much everything you wrote.

The main thing for me is, if the pennant race is totally dead, I'm still not going to stop being an Indians fan and following them every day. Nor am I going to start leading the "2007" cheers.

Late September is going to be depressing, but as in other years, there will be things to enjoy about this season, even as we curse the blown chances, and there will still be great optimism for the future.

by Jay on Jun 18, 2006 12:32 PM EDT 0 recs

Re: Bye! See ya in 2007!

Amen.

-Erik "Come on Dorn, get in front of the damn ball"

by drerikbrady on Jun 19, 2006 2:07 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Bye! See ya in 2007!

In reality, I think the Indians chance of making it to the post-season is getting near 0. That said, baseball is the kind of sport you can enjoy game to game. Especially if, like the Indians, you still have an incredibly optimistic future. If I were a KC fan I'd be depressed. As an Indians fan, I'm disappointed (nothing new there), but still not depressed about the future.

by APV on Jun 18, 2006 2:29 PM EDT 0 recs

Re: Bye! See ya in 2007!

I live in the Baltimore/DC area and actually went up to Camden Yards and took in Orioles/Blue Jays two weeks ago. Normally, I don't go up to Camden Yards unless the Indians are in town. I have to admit that it was kind of nice to go and just watch a baseball game. I had no vested interest in who won that game at all. It was just nice to get out and enjoy the game of baseball (and some of Boog's barbecue). That aside, I realize that your point is more one of just looking forward to each Indians game, and I'm totally onboard with that. But I was surprised to remember that I started off first and foremost as a baseball fan. Maybe that makes it easier to stomach our current funk, maybe not. But I'm with you, I'm going to keep coming here and being a part of this fan section of the Tribe game by game, week by week, season by season. Some games may leave us disappointed, but each one is a new opportunity.

-Erik "Come on Dorn, get in front of the damn ball"

by drerikbrady on Jun 19, 2006 2:14 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Bye! See ya in 2007!

So what steps do we take to maximize resources at this point?

I'm not going to pretend that Jason Johnson, Aaron Boone, or Ron Belliard have any trade value.

I do think that we should dangle any one (but not more than one) of Lee, Byrd, and Westbrook and see what the return might be. We need a second baseman, we need a corner outfielder, both of which need to hit AND field. We need major league ready bullpen arms. To me, Lee would seem to bring the biggest return particularly with the whole perceived vs actual value thing.

You'd still be fairly set in 2007 with Sabathia, Sowers, two of the aforemention trio, and gaggle of people to choose from for the 5th slot.

If we assume that Sabathia and Hafner are gone after 2008 we sort of have a two-year window right? I might even argue that it's just 2008 unless we think we can radically make up ground
next year.

by cheech99 on Jun 18, 2006 2:56 PM EDT 0 recs

Re: Bye! See ya in 2007!

For whatever reason, I've always thought that Hafner will work out a below market deal to stay in Cleveland.

by Thommy on Jun 18, 2006 3:12 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Bye! See ya in 2007!

Open a window and turn on a fan. I think the paint fumes are getting to you. The pressures put on a player NOT to accept a below-market contract are generally greater than those to do the opposite.

by APV on Jun 18, 2006 3:23 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Bye! See ya in 2007!

Not to mention that loyalty is a lost virtue on both sides of the fence. Right after B. Arroya accepted a below market deal in order to stay in Boston they dealt him to the Reds. Don't think players don't notice that stuff.

by exileincincy on Jun 18, 2006 3:42 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Bye! See ya in 2007!

I might even argue that it's just 2008 unless we think we can radically make up ground
next year.

Now hold on there! We're all down, but there is no reason to conclude that next year will be bad. This team still has a strong core.

by dgcambridge on Jun 18, 2006 3:32 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Bye! See ya in 2007!

take a peek at the great book License to Deal to get a glimpse into Hafner's priorities. He stabbed his agent in the back to go with Boras or whichever big name he is with now. The agent Matt Sosnick who has dealt with many ballplayers over the years, still gets sick when thinking about how Hafner betrayed him.

by brad on Jun 18, 2006 9:59 PM EDT 0 recs

Re: Bye! See ya in 2007!

Is there really a concensus that hafner will be gone after '08? When did this come about? Why do i always have to keep finding new favorite players? I thought Pronk was a good loyal dude!

Come on Dorn, get in front of the damn ball! Don't give me this "ole" bulls**t!

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 19, 2006 2:19 AM EDT 0 recs

Re: Bye! See ya in 2007!

There are no good, loyal dudes. That said, I wouldn't assume Pronk will be gone. I think there will be a timely effort to extend his contract, possibly as soon as next March. There's great value to be had there, and Shapiro is not one to miss out on a great value on a great talent.

by Jay on Jun 19, 2006 7:52 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Bye! See ya in 2007!

Agreed. The man is making less than $3 million this year, and only $4 million in 07. I could see how an extension with a big fat raise could be an extremely attractive option for Travis. Here's hoping.

by dctribefan on Jun 19, 2006 9:34 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Bye! See ya in 2007!

I hope he's back, but it's impossible to predict because we don't know who the other suitors are. It's not hard to see the Ramirez and Thome departures as situations where one other team decided to make the player their top offseason priority.

I could see Shapiro doing what it takes to keep Hafner, but not if there is another team targeting Hafner who is willing to go big money. And you can't blame the Indians for that. (at least, I don't).

by dgcambridge on Jun 19, 2006 11:17 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Bye! See ya in 2007!

Of course, you may say that this doesn't apply next March, when it's only the Indians negotiating with Hafner.

Maybe. But if there are other teams waiting for Hafner to become free, it wouldn't be shocking if they found a way to communicate that.

by dgcambridge on Jun 19, 2006 11:19 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Bye! See ya in 2007!

Well, it doesn't matter a whole heck of a lot who the other suitors are right now. Sure, the Yankees could call up Travis and tell him they want to make him the highest paid player in the majors from 2009 to 2015, but if Travis wants a raise right now, the only way for him to get it is with an extension.

by dctribefan on Jun 19, 2006 11:44 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Bye! See ya in 2007!

Does that mean (in your opinion) we've missed out on the right timing to approach Westbrook as theoretically 3 months ago would have been the right time?

Granted I'm not saying Westbrook is nearly as valuable as Pronk, which is why we didn't approach him. Just curious.

by cheech99 on Jun 19, 2006 11:25 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Bye! See ya in 2007!

It's clear that the longer before free agency the team is negotiating, the better cash deal the team can get for itself. That said, a year before free agency is still a fine negotiating position. But the cash deal is better because the team is assuming significantly more risk -- and this is particularly true for pitchers.

Amazingly, the Indians felt good enough about C.C.'s health situation to be willing to give him a two-year extension 1.5 seasons before the end of his current deal. They probably feel fine about Westbrook's health -- but they may also feel fine about their ability to replace him internally (hence he was almost traded). If it takes a three-year, $25 million deal to extend Westbrook, they may not feel that's a deal they want to take.

Another key difference between C.C. and Westbrook is breakout potential. The Indians probably perceive Westbrook at his peak value, whereas in mid-2005 they probably perceived C.C. as capable of breaking out and being a dominant pitcher for three years. The difference is based on age and on raw tools.

Hafner is both more valuable and enormously less risky than Westbrook, or any pitcher for that matter. He was a six-win player for the past two seasons, and he's on pace for 10 this season, with little reason to think he can't sustain at least the 6 level for several more seasons. There just aren't many players like that out there.

by Jay on Jun 19, 2006 1:17 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Bye! See ya in 2007!

Boy I hope Pronk is around for a long time, since I just got his gray jersey for Father's Day yesterday!

-Erik "Come on Dorn, get in front of the damn ball"

by drerikbrady on Jun 19, 2006 2:15 PM EDT up 0 recs

It might make sense to try to sign Hafner again...

soon.

Hello Turkmenbashi,

I know - it's frustrating to hear that, though I guess it doesn't totally surprise me.

Again, being in our market, we'll likely always be outbid by larger markets (like NY and Boston,) even with the revenue from STO, and as long as money is an important factor in players' decisions (which it will always likely be,) we are at a disadvantage.

Shapiro and company could try to get the jump on other teams by trying to resign Hafner to another contract within the next year or so, because thinking about it, 2008 isn't that far away.

In my opinion, 2006, at least when it comes to the playoffs, is pretty much a lost cause. You have the 2007 season, the 2008 season, and poof, Hafner is a free agent (or does he have an option for 2009? Or is 2008 his option year - I don't remember his contract details off the top of my head.)

However, I was not aware of what brad mentioned (thanks brad! :-), so that definitely puts a new "light" on what could happen with any future Pronk negotiations. Hearing Boras' name almost always sends chills up my spine, especially in our market.

Just my 2 cents. :-)

Take care, stay safe, and keep the "faith" for 2007!

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Jun 19, 2006 2:40 AM EDT 0 recs