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Around SBN: Champions League Preview with Jimmy Conrad

Game Thread: June 21, 2006

Chicago Cubs (27-43) at Cleveland (32-38), 7:05 PM (STO)

Starting Pitchers:

Chicago: Carlos Zambrano (5-3, 2.82 ERA)
Cleveland: CC Sabathia (5-3, 3.08 ERA)

Probably one of the better pitching matchups we'll see in 2006. I just finished reading 3 Nights in August, and was struck by how things have changed since 2003, the year the events in the book took place. Three seasons ago, the Cubs had the best young threesome in the majors, with Zambrano as the third (and largely overlooked) pitcher of the trio. Now, he's the ace of a injury-decimated rotation, while Mark Prior and Kerry Wood have faded out of the picture due to injuries.

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Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Vazquez in at third again.  I'm guessing Wedge is just giving Boone a couple days' rest against a couple of tough right-handers -- or he's trying to capture some of that first base platoon magic at third?  If so, let me be the first to christen this crackerjack combo, "Ramaaron."

by G Village on Jun 21, 2006 6:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Maybe Shapiro is close to shipping Boone off and they don't want him to get hurt ... a boy can dream can't he?

by dvd1204 on Jun 21, 2006 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
that .154 ba is sure to help us out tonight.

by mikehudson on Jun 21, 2006 7:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
is now the time that i should mention merloni's .333 avg and .863 ops in 144 ab's in buffalo?

by mikehudson on Jun 21, 2006 7:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
red sox took johnson? the curse of the bambino begins anew.

by mikehudson on Jun 21, 2006 7:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Just turned on the game.  Vasquez at 3rd again? So, besides the clever nicknames listed above, could something else be going on? I read that they had to add Inglett to the 40 man. I can't imagine keeping Inglett and Vasquez. Maybe they are showcasing RV? It would be cool if we actually got something for him.

On a related note. It is sad that our best(??) option is Hollandsworth in the #2 spot in the lineup.

I'm stuck with the Chi broadcast. These guys are tons better the Hawk and DJ, but they aren't offering much insight.

by zigsmom on Jun 21, 2006 7:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Grrr.. Anyone want some children.  They are all Mets fans and beat me to the tv tonight?  Internet updates only tonight.  I would be happy to send some HGH to Ramon to get him off the roster.
Upstate NY Tribe fan

by tribe fan in Rochester on Jun 21, 2006 7:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Hey Cuz.  You're kids are looking a lot smarter than the rest of us by now.  At this point, I'm ready to switch over to the Mets game myself.

by Otto on Jun 21, 2006 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Killer B's alright.

by Mark @ Let's Go Tribe! on Jun 21, 2006 7:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
What the heck is going on? Why don't they throw the ball to base after they catch it?

by Jeffrey R on Jun 21, 2006 7:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
can i mention that the mlb.com television feed just sucks? more often than not i listen to the radio feed. it goes into freeze frame, goes out altogether and you can watch the scoreboard to find out what happens. As is usually the case, however, i don't want to know what happens. so much for our streak.

by mikehudson on Jun 21, 2006 8:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
CC was really let down.

by Mark @ Let's Go Tribe! on Jun 21, 2006 8:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
What a drag. With competent fielding behind him, C.C. gets out of that inning without giving up any runs.

by Jeffrey R on Jun 21, 2006 8:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
I'm watching game cast tonight.  Can someone inform me about the two fielder's choice ground balls?  

Given the Indians infield defense, I'm not sure I actually want to know.

by jdudas on Jun 21, 2006 8:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
I'm just listening on the radio... but apparently, with men on first and third, a grounder was hit to Broussard at first... but rather than go for the DP, he through home -- even though the runner wasn't trying to score! So instead of a DP, it's bases loaded, no outs.

Very next play, grounder hit to Belliard... he faked throwing to second, then faked throwing home, then faked throwing to first... but didn't throw the ball at all...

by Jeffrey R on Jun 21, 2006 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Actually, Belliard threw it to first, but too late to get the runner at first.  He may as well hung onto the ball.

by Mark @ Let's Go Tribe! on Jun 21, 2006 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
He didn't throw the ball at all. He just ate the ball. He certainly didn't throw to first

by Alchemist on Jun 21, 2006 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Jason Johnson is probably sat chuckling to himself somewhere watching the TV.

by Alchemist on Jun 21, 2006 8:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Here's what happened:

  1. roller to first. Perez (at 3rd) breaks for home then stops. Broussard don't look and just threw home when he could have tagged the runner to first. Mental error.

  2. Soft liner to second. Belliard backed up to stop it and then thought first about throwing to second, home and first - but becasue of the indecision he had no throw at all and held the ball.

by Alchemist on Jun 21, 2006 8:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Oh yeah, it was a soft liner to Belliard, not a grounder... so the runners had to hold up a bit to see whether or not he would catch it.

by Jeffrey R on Jun 21, 2006 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Woohoo!  Inning over!

by Mark @ Let's Go Tribe! on Jun 21, 2006 8:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Thanks for the tun-down folks; I appreciate it.

But, honestly, that sequence is just pathetic.  It's not even bush league; more like little league.

by jdudas on Jun 21, 2006 8:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
This game (and season) has made it obvious that defense is important.

So my question is, if the June 2006 version of Shapiro could go back in time, would he try to convince the March 2006 version of Shapiro to hang onto Brandon Phillips?

by Jeffrey R on Jun 21, 2006 8:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
He'd probably make the same decision. Anyway, it's not like Phillips would have been playing regularly anyway.

by jdudas on Jun 21, 2006 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Maybe. I don't know. Many people on this forum have suspected for a while now that the Indians main problem has been their defense, particularly in the infield. Perhaps if Phillips was still an option he would have been given a chance to play somewhat regularly.

But who knows. No sense in pondering all the "what ifs?" too much.

by Jeffrey R on Jun 21, 2006 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Actually, the more I think about it, the more irritated I get.

If this were an isolated incident, it could be forgiven.  But terrible defense, mental lapses, misjudgments, etc. are a systematic part of this team (especially the infield).  What happened?  It's the same personnel as last year and suddenly they all go down the toilet?

by jdudas on Jun 21, 2006 8:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
I am beginning to feel sorry for Sowers.  Poor guy doesn't stand a chance with a defense like this behind him.

by Mark @ Let's Go Tribe! on Jun 21, 2006 8:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
If it was just mechanical defense e.g. misfields, throwing errors then then I could understand (a little more). These are type of errors that Aaron Boone commits twice weekly.

Yet, the stupid mental errors that Peralta, Belliard, Broussard, Hollandsworth and Michaels have all made (more than once each!) are sympotamtic of poor concentration and disinterest. It's almost like some of them have given up.

I find that unacceptable for a professional ballplayer. It's the equivalent of me forgetting to go teach my class because I'm daydreaming while gazing out of my office window. If I did that I'd get fired!!

Let's not even start on the lack of range...

by Alchemist on Jun 21, 2006 8:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
I'm usually fairly sympathetic to the players; I don't think that professional ballplayers regularly (or irregularly) dog-it, give up, etc.  

But you might be on to something.  Either they are disinterested or they are too interested and are pressing so badly that they are not able to relax and make good decisions.    

by jdudas on Jun 21, 2006 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Indeed. And even still one might be more understanding if it was just an occasional thing... but it feels like this has been happening all season long.

by Jeffrey R on Jun 21, 2006 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Maybe I was too harsh. In general, I'm not calling them out for lack of effort. Though, there are times when I want to make Peralta run out ground balls properly. It's just that like everyone else I'm astounded by the way the season has crumbled after we started 6-1. Frustrating.

I think your point about trying too hard might be more accurate.

by Alchemist on Jun 21, 2006 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Whenever there are this many mental lapses, I put the blame solely on the manager. He's done a horrendous job of preparing his team to play on a daily basis.

by emd2k3 on Jun 21, 2006 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
No way this one can be pinned on Wedge. Think what you like of his in-game strategizing or clubhouse management but when was the last time you saw Wedge run into a double play or forgot to cutoff a throw from the outfield? These errors are solely down to the players making them.

by Alchemist on Jun 21, 2006 8:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Maybe; but I'm not really sure just what it is that a manager does, beyond making in-game decisions of course.

I mean really, do any of us know what it means to captain the ship in this context?  

by jdudas on Jun 21, 2006 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
oh comme on...merlomi makes the play lights out.

by mikehudson on Jun 21, 2006 11:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Anyway, it's a shame that all of those runs off CC are earned. He deserved a lot better.

by jdudas on Jun 21, 2006 8:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Awww, how cute. Hammy just reported that Inglett's mom flew all the way out from California in hopes of seeing her son make his debut. Let's hope it happens tonight!

by Jeffrey R on Jun 21, 2006 8:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
And when I thought it couldn't get worse I hear Sheldon Ocker will be the radio color man for the 7th and 8th innings.  Just great.

by APV on Jun 21, 2006 8:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Ha!  I might just have to tune in to hear that windbag.

by jdudas on Jun 21, 2006 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Anyone want to bet that within the first 2 outs he will mention that Scott Elarton should have been re-signed in the place of Jason Johnson?

by Alchemist on Jun 21, 2006 8:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
What really annoys me about Socker are his condescending answers to the people who write in to the ABJ. He comes over as a real schmuck sometimes. I often think that he believes that replying to mundane letters is beneath his position as a 'baseball insider'. Although why anyone writes to him I don't know....

by Alchemist on Jun 21, 2006 8:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
How long of a leash will Wedge have if the team continues to play more like little leaguers and less like major leaguers?

by emd2k3 on Jun 21, 2006 8:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
While I'm not sure that he deserves to be fired, if the Indians keep playing like this somebody is going to have to be sacrificed and it probably will be Wedge.

by jdudas on Jun 21, 2006 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Adam Miller has pitched 6 innings in Akron tonight, 2 hits, no runs, 8 Ks

by APV on Jun 21, 2006 8:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Nice to see Adam Miller working his way back slowly. I just hope they are careful with him for the time being.

Anyone heard anything about JD Martin? I guess he might be ready to start throwing exercises soon...

by Alchemist on Jun 21, 2006 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now Inglett has to wait for another day in order..
to bat!

Hello everyone,

I bet this rain delay and possible premature end to the game must frustrate Inglett more than anyone.

He's just about to hit for the very first time, with his mother in the stands from Sacramento, and what happens, the rain starts coming down and Inglett will probably have to wait another day.

Anyone think that Belliard and Broussard put their names at the top of the "potential trade chip" list?  They probably were on there anyway, but I'm sure their defensive miscues didn't help take them off that list.

Just my 2 cents. :-)

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Jun 21, 2006 9:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Yeah, anyone have any news about whether the game's been called, or is likely to be called soon?

And should I care?

by dgcambridge on Jun 21, 2006 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Wow, looking back at the 3rd, there can't have ever ever been a pitcher who had a less-deserved 8 ER inning.  A lot of singles, two amazing fielder's (non)choices, followed by throwing Mujica into the fire in his first big league game.

by dgcambridge on Jun 21, 2006 10:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
From AP:
"Cleveland first baseman Ben Broussard and second baseman Ronnie Belliard were both guilty of mental lapses on comical back-to-back plays that cost Sabathia certain outs, and eventually, runs"

COMICAL?  So we're officially laughing stocks.

by DixonCayne on Jun 21, 2006 10:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
I'm betting it is going to take something major to shake this team up, where are their heads on defense? Somebody needs to kick a** to get them playing like major leaguers. Where is the spark did it go with Coco?
Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Jun 22, 2006 12:36 AM EDT reply actions  

Appears to be that way!
Hello fanintexas,

It does seem the spark left when Coco left, as this offense hasn't been as consistent as last year's.  

When they found the stroke last year, they kept it for a while (partly what allowed us to play so well last August and September.)  This year, they find it for a game, then lose it for the next game or two.

Even tonight, they had the right approach against Zambrano, according to Tom Hamilton, going the other way on him.

But then, they got away from that and started pulling the ball; that's partly why Zambrano retired 11 in a row or whatever it was for 3 innings or so.

Then, when the Indians got their second run, they went back to taking the ball the other way, including Broussard's RBI double.  

This team is just so maddeningly inconsistent with their offensive approach that it's amazing they are still 2nd or 3rd in RS because this offense is not generating like it is capable of.

How many games this year have we been able to generate a consistent offensive attack from 1-9, as Wedge continuously preaches, this year?  Not too many that I can recall, and certainly not on any regular basis since April.  

The offense did not have that problem from June onward last year, especially in August and September.  Something seems to be missing, and the main offensive performer missing from last year's lineup is Coco Crisp.

Perhaps Coco was more a catalyst to the great offensive attack we had last year than first thought?  Michaels hasn't been able to replicate that same spark from the #2 spot like Coco did last year - is it because of a lack of speed, a lack of being unfamiliar with the AL, or something else?  Just curious.

Just my 5 cents. :-)

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Jun 22, 2006 1:41 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
wedge is the worst manager we've ever had. i want charlie manuel back. at least he knew how to string together 105 losses and make it seem fun. i got out of a deposition in a federal racketeering trial last night and came home to relax and watch the game. the next thing i knew i was calling the damn lawyers to see where they were at, because i knew they were having a better time than me. i hope none of you deviants have small children, because raising them to be indians fans is a form of child abuse.

by mikehudson on Jun 22, 2006 6:26 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Ha! Luckily, I suppose, my kids will be either Red Sox or Yankees fans because of where we live. I'm thinking of making sure that they go with the lesser evil; next summer I'll start buying our 2 1/2 year old Red Sox paraphanelia.

by jdudas on Jun 22, 2006 6:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
If you want to see a finely-tuned, well-coached team that seems to always throw to the right base, hit the cut-off man, make the routine as well as the spectacular play, check out Oregon State against Rice tonight. Its a truly beautiful thing to behold if you've been watching the Indians this year as I have and have begun to question your love of the game. Plus, you can see Josh Rodriguez -- the Indians 2nd round pick -- man third for the Rice Owls. Guy has a pretty swing.

by madherb on Jun 22, 2006 11:29 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
I'm afraid I'd weep if I saw the game played right at this stage of our season!

by LeftyCatcher on Jun 22, 2006 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
I'm not afraid to admit it - I do get a little verklempt watching the CWS.

by madherb on Jun 22, 2006 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: June 21, 2006
Oh, and forgot to mention, its the College World Series, on ESPN2.

by madherb on Jun 22, 2006 11:31 AM EDT reply actions  

I hope the Indians get Rodriguez signed soon...
after the CWS wraps up.

Hello everyone,

I'm excited about Josh Rodriguez - I hope he turns out very well and hope that the Indians can sign him soon after the CWS is over so that he can get some development time in this year, not wait until 2007.

Hopefully, he'll be an Indian soon! :-)

Just my 2 cents.

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Jun 22, 2006 8:50 PM EDT reply actions  

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