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Our C/1B Situation

There's been a lot of talk regarding Victor Martinez and his offensive value as a catcher as opposed to his value as a first baseman.

For what it's worth, I think the team is currently on the right track, what with Martinez getting some games in at 1B.  Shoppach has enough potential with the bat to platoon at catcher, rather than being just a backup.  Allowing VMart to get 2-4 games a week at 1B would save him from the wear and tear that would affect his bat, while Garko would play the rest of the games at first and possibly also serve as an emergency third catcher.

As far as Martinez' value as a 1B is concerned, he's already an above average (if just barely) bat at that position, going by OPS (just a quick and dirty reference there).  Yes, I would like our first baseman to be one of the top performers in the majors, but Albert Pujols doesn't play for the Tribe.  Until we have a .950 to 1.000 OPS bat to plug in at first, I think that a VMart/Shoppach/Garko rotation between C and 1B would be the best use of our players.

What do you all think?

0 recs  |  Comment 13 comments

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I think that is a realistic solution!
Hello ManchildinBeantown, welcome if you're new. :-)

I think that is a realistic solution to being able to incorporate Martinez, Shoppach, and Garko into the future Indians' lineup.  Otherwise, it looks like you either have to keep playing Victor at catcher most of the time, which exploits his lack of arm strength and bad throwing mechanics, plus keeps Shoppach from developing any consistent groove at the plate, as well as preventing his better throwing abilities from keeping the fast teams from stealing a ton of bases.

Granted, Garko's playing time will get cut down, but he'd probably still be playing 4-5 times a week, which might not be bad for a rookie player so that he can ease more into playing every day at the ML level.

Just my 2 cents. :-)

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Jul 14, 2006 3:02 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: I think that is a realistic solution!
Indiansfan don't you ever sleep?

Hopefully these questions will be answered by the end of the season, would hate to enter 2007 with the same issues remaining unresolved. Sort it out over the next 3 months and lets focus on solving other areas of weakness during the off season.

Today's lineup looked much deeper with VMart, Shoppach and Blake in the lineup.  

by new zealand tribe fan on Jul 14, 2006 6:48 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I sleep on occasion! :-)
Hello New Zealand Tribe Fan,

Yes, I sleep occasionally, LOL! :-)  Seriously, I get about 6-7 hours a night.  Thanks for asking. :-)

I agree with you on resolving the issues now - we need to know what we can get in the offseason, so it's better if Victor starts getting more time at 1B and Shoppach gets more playing time to see if that combination can be effective in the future.

Plus, that may encourage the Indians to trade Broussard, as I would think he would be a decent to good trading chip, besides the fact that he probably won't be back with the Indians in 2007.

Just my 2 cents. :-)

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Jul 14, 2006 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Our C/1B Situation
I think its alright that our 1B won't be in the "ideal" OPS range.  This is because we have one of the top 3 DHs in the league.  So the small amount we will lose at C-1B we MORE then make up with Hafner at DH.
Its unfortunate that Hafner can't play 1B and Martinez can't throw out a runner though.  
Either way, this is the 3rd best scoring team in the majors.

by Brandini on Jul 14, 2006 9:54 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Our C/1B Situation
I know it's heresy to talk about dealing one of the "core" guys but I can't help but wonder what a guy like Martinez might fetch. If his defensive problems at C can't be remedied he becomes just another 1B commodity of which we really don't have a shortage.

by exileincincy on Jul 14, 2006 10:14 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Our C/1B Situation
I was just thinking that. What would Shapiro do if Shoppach started to hit? Considering the kind of value we could get for Martinez, he couldn't not listen to offers.

by Joe. on Jul 14, 2006 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Our C/1B Situation
Before you dismiss Victor Martinez at 1B as "just another 1B commodity", think about the fact that Victor at 1b would be playing a significantly less strenuous position defensively.  He would probably improve somewhat at the plate because he would not be facing the daily grind of catching.  I guesstimate that a Victor Martinez playing exclusively at 1B would hit 5 to 10 additional HRs per season.
The Andy Marte Countdown has begun again!

by woodsmeister on Jul 14, 2006 10:26 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Our C/1B Situation
My guess is that Victor's throwing is not any worse than it was last year, and it was not that major of a problem then. It only became a problem with pitchers who are poor at holding runners on (Johnson, Byrd). Maybe Victor should get a rest when Byrd is pitching rather than when a leftie starts.

I'm not too fond of the 1B experiment. You have a player who is having defensive problems, so you give him a new position to learn?  

by oxforddave on Jul 14, 2006 12:01 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Our C/1B Situation
The problem is that Travis Hafner can't play the field. And they want to give Shoppach some PT.

It's not an elegant solution, but right now it's the best of the available options.

by Ryan on Jul 14, 2006 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Our C/1B Situation
As I see it, the idea behind the VMart/Shoppach/Garko rotation is too maximize Martinez' value.  No, he doesn't have a Pudge-in-his-prime arm behind the plate, and I can live with that.  A little creative management puts Shoppach behind the plate in games where his arm is an asset, and having Vic play these games at 1B keeps his bat in the lineup at a less physically taxing position, possibly making him more effective towards the end of the season (and his career).

As an aside, I don't know that Vic's defense is necessarily as much of a problem as we think it is.  Given all the uncertainties surrounding defensive evaluation (e.g. the value of throwing out a higher percentage of baserunners) and other factors (is it the fault of the pitchers?), perhaps his plus offense as a catcher outweighs another catcher's plus defense/average bat.

I'm mostly concerned with keeping Martinez' bat in the lineup while maintaining his potency as a hitter.

Heh heh, heh heh, I just talked about "his potency."  Heh heh.

Sorry.  Little bit of a lapse there.  I'll grow back up now.

by ManchildinBeantown on Jul 14, 2006 12:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Our C/1B Situation
That's not a bad idea. I know Garko misses being behind the plate, and it certainly wouldn't hurt to get Marathon Man Martinez out from behind the plate a bit more often.
Tribe fan trapped in Illinois

by Avindian on Jul 14, 2006 2:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Our C/1B Situation
I guess this is one of those problems GM's love to have.  Shoppach would probably be one of the best backup catchers in the league if he was put in that position (meaning he should probably be starting somewhere) and Garko has voiced in the past that he prefers catching and would like to do so again.  I really don't want to see a platoon situation at first next year, that shouldn't be the long term solution at 1b.  I think Martinez is untouchable and I agree that his all-around game would probably improve if he played 1b full-time.  Shoppach or Garko would probably get a lot of value in a trade, but I'm not sure which would be the best one to keep.  Either seems a good choice at this point.

by Pronk33 on Jul 14, 2006 8:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Our C/1B Situation
Nice problem to have? That's one way to put it. Another way would be, we've failed to trade off our excess depth for maximum return, so we have three major-league ready catchers of average to way-above-average hitting ability ... and other positions with no particularly good options. Why won't this organization trade a prospect? Even for another prospect?

by Jay on Jul 15, 2006 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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