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What would you give for Crawford ?

Todd_tiny by SpringTrainingFun on

Since it's been rumored that Devil Rays' LF Carl Crawford may be made available in a trade this offseason, what would you trade in return to get him ?

He's signed through 2010 and he's only 25 years old.  He would take over the leadoff position and allow Sizemore to drop down to possibly third in the batting order.

Who are you willing to give up of these players to get Crawford; Adam Miller,Lofgren, Gutierrez, Crowe, Kouzmanoff, Sipp ?

I think it would take at least one front line starting pitching prospect (either Miller or Lofgren), one OF prospect (Gutierrez or Crowe), and one other prospect.

0 recs | Comment 46 comments

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Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
This rumor picked up steam right after the trade deadline as well. But I seriously doubt they are going to deal him. Who are they gonna start in LF? Hollins, Gomes? I don't think they have another high profile prospect ready like Young.

Now I will say that if they deal him, they will want pitching since they have little after Kazmir. But I doubt Shapiro will give up on Miller or Lofgren right now.

by talonk on Sep 29, 2006 10:52 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
I guess Gomes or Dukes.  Two very different players, obviously, except for the fact that both had 2006 years that make you say: ???.

My first reaction was, fine, lets go after Dukes instead.  But, of course, I'd rather have Choo anyway.

Crawford is better than any of them.  I'm sure he could bring a huge package back to the DRays.  Crawford and Grady would be a lot fun though.  And make a great offseason flag football team.

by dgcambridge on Sep 29, 2006 11:20 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
You said it...large market. If he's going anywhere, that's where he's going. NY (a or b, LA (a or b), St.L. (not large, but rich), Atlanta, Chicago.
Stop dreaming...and don't sell the farm to buy the crops.

by DocNo on Sep 29, 2006 12:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
Since we need pitching more than offense I probably would not be willing to give what the D'Rays would demand. I think Miller and Lofgren are untouchable and the D'Rays would probably not accept less. If he could be had for the Gutierrez's and Sipp's of the world, of course I'd do it.

by exileincincy on Sep 29, 2006 10:54 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
The Rays would be talking Cliff Lee or Jeremy Sowers, no doubt about it.  Just don't see how Cleveland can win if it subtracts one of those two pitchers.

It's easier to find a corner OF than a legit starting pitcher.

I just don't want the White Sox to go out and snag Crawford and throw him in left field.

by rick on Sep 29, 2006 12:19 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
The White Sox would have to give up McCarthy, Fields and something else. I doubt Kenny would do that.

by talonk on Sep 29, 2006 12:21 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
There are multiple teams in this discussion, my money is on him going to the Astros.
The Indians are probably one of the last teams that would require him.  Bringing him in to bat lead off wouldn't hurt.  However as I have mentioned before, this team does not need offensive help, so unless Crawford is considered a plus defender in the OF, I really don't see the need for bringing him in.

As for the DRays, I don't think they care who starts in LF as long as they can net an elite starting pitcher.  Crawford has all the tools that makes him sexy in the eyes of most management, and I can see him being swapped sometime this winter.  Having an OF of Gomes, Baldelli and Young could be one of the best in the AL.

by Brandini on Sep 29, 2006 12:31 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
http://www.minorleagueball.com/story/2006/9/10/211933/501

Sort of rumor but the key sentence is: At this point, the executive said that the Rays planned on attempting to trade Dukes for "10 cents on the dollar" during the offseason, or releasing him (which I think is more likely).

I don't really have much trouble believing the diary. I also don't think Dukes will ever play in the majors. In my opinion, he's beyond reachable. Even if he's not, I think he'd fail miserably under Wedge-Dukes is, apparently, not unlike Milton Bradley. We all know how that worked out.

As for Carl, if Sowers or Lee +a mid-level got it done I'd do it I think. I'm still concerned about Sowers going forward-his K rate in particular haunts me.

Barring a career ending injury to Crawford, at the very worst, I think Sowers plus a AA pitcher can only end up somewhat in the DRays favor. A player of Crawford's caliber can hardly be overpaid for, even if Sowers ends up putting together a good to great career. In other words, the scenario doesn't have a real "bust" aspect as long as Crawford doesn't quit baseball and move out of the country. I think it's fair to say he's a proven commodity and that commodity is good.

by afh4 on Sep 29, 2006 12:33 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
Yeah, Carl Crawford is a special player. If he was anywhere but Tampa, he'd already be a star, If he was playing in a large market, he'd be a superstar.

The Indians have more pressing needs, but could you imagine a 1-2 of Crawford and Sizemore? Yikes!

by Ryan on Sep 29, 2006 12:42 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
I think the idea of ranking needs is interesting.

Obviously, bullpen and second base have the highest level of priority right now. We could go into 2007 essentially standing pat in LF and I'm not sure who would be complaining.

But don't needs become more/less pressing when the value available increases? In other words, is the idea of replacing a relative team weakness (LF) with a possible MVP candidate ever not pressing?

I think I probably side with you but I'm not sure the Indians would be badly served by trying to cobble together a bullpen, make minor noise at second base, and go crazy for Crawford. We certainly have the depth to have him and, as has been said, we can't hold onto all these players forever.

by afh4 on Sep 29, 2006 12:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
This isn't a far fetched idea, however what does the team stand to gain?  He would possibly raise the team batting average from 4th to the best?  The total runs from 3rd to the best?
With all that in mind, how many wins would marginally improving the offense be worth?  Especially if the bullpen, rotation and infield defense remain the same as they currently are?

I do love your "we can't hold onto all these players forever", and I HOPE that the Brandon Phillips "fiasco" will at the very least teach us something.  I think the biggest thing is, there is no need to hold onto a player until his value dries up.  An organization has the best knowledge of their own players and it is difficult to believe that the Indians FO thinks that their deep pitching farm system will all be major league contributors.

by Brandini on Sep 29, 2006 1:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
If you really looked at both him and Coco and and did not count this year  (hand problems of Coco) he is just faster version. The 331 OBP is not good.
Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Sep 29, 2006 4:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
I don't think it's really fair to throw out this year-Carl is two years younger, has been highly touted for a while, and is having his "I'm here, Majors" season.

I agree Coco and he were similar players in 2004 and 2005. But, knowing their player histories, Coco was probably then (and again next year) at the height of his powers. Crawford is only reaching his peak this year and the next, I suspect.

by afh4 on Sep 29, 2006 5:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
That would be my guess also,  but it's his OBP, right now Sizemore is a much better lead off hitter. If we are going after a LF I would want more pop in his swing.  
Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Sep 29, 2006 5:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
FWIW, many people expect Crawford to develop more power now that he's in his mid-20's. His slugging percentage has gone up every year since 2003, so they may be right. He just turned 25, and he's improving his offensive game every season.

by Kos on Sep 29, 2006 6:19 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
I wonder if a trio of pitchers would suffice. Cliff Lee, Jason Davis or Andrew Brown and Sean Smith. I'd do that, especially if I felt that Carmona was back on track and/or Miller would be able to contribute relatively quickly. I know quantity doesn't make up for quality but I gotta believe T.B. might find a boatload of pitching attractive even if none of them were Kazmir caliber.

by exileincincy on Sep 29, 2006 1:02 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
I think we're kind of in the pit of "hometown" quicksand with Lee. Stepping back from the table, is there anyway you would ever give up Carl Crawford if the best player (and the only sure shot major leaguer) coming back was Cliff Lee? I can't imagine they wouldn't be able to do a lot better than that.

Then again, maybe I undervalue Lee.

by afh4 on Sep 29, 2006 1:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
No I wouldn't do that deal if I were T.B. But I also wouldn't be talking about trading Crawford either. They might be just testing the water to see if anybody would overpay and, if not, they just keep Crawford. I've heard they are a difficult organization to trade with anyway. We better just stay focused. 2B and bullpen. 2b and bullpen.

by exileincincy on Sep 29, 2006 1:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
just to stoke the fire...this article just appeared on the "Swerb's Blurbs" Indians blog.

http://www.swerbsblurbs.com/article_detail.php?id=848

by DocNo on Sep 29, 2006 1:22 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
It's not a terrible idea. He's sort of paid a lot and it would require Jhonny learning second very quickly or else Omar shifting (seems unlikely. He's whole HOF bid is based on playing as many games at SS as possible, in my opinion at least) but it's not undoable.

by afh4 on Sep 29, 2006 1:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
I'm not so sure it's a bad idea either...but would they then unveil the statue on the same day they permanently retired the jersey, or would that be two  different ceremonies?

by DocNo on Sep 29, 2006 1:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
Interesting idea, but I doubt Omar would want to come back. He was pretty bitter when we let him go.

As for helping AsCab, would be hard to do unless he rides the pine all next season, which won't happen because he needs the ABs in AAA to prove he can hit.

And from my other thread, there really aren't any good SS on the FA market either. In a trade, maybe, but I haven't looked at it.

by talonk on Sep 29, 2006 1:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
I think they are looking for a Kazmir type prospect.  Most of the discussions around the deadline were around Ervin Santana.

by Brandini on Sep 29, 2006 1:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
"The St. Petersburg Times' Marc Topkin reports Tampa Bay Devil Rays OF Delmon Young did not play Sept. 28 in order to keep him under 130 at-bats for the season. If he does not exceed that mark, Young will be considered a rookie in 2007 and the team believes he is a viable Rookie of The Year candidate in the American League."

The Devil Rays are the best organization in major league baseball history!  Keeping a players at bats down so he can be a rookie the following season?  THATS WONDERFUL!

by Brandini on Sep 29, 2006 2:48 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
That's stupid on so many levels.

by Ryan on Sep 29, 2006 3:11 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
Agreed, however, could it possibly have something to do with service time and his eventual contract situation down the road?  I know he signed a major league contract when he was drafted, so does it even matter?

by Brandini on Sep 29, 2006 3:21 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
It won't affect his service time since he is still on the 25 man roster.

by talonk on Sep 29, 2006 3:22 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
Delmon Young thing = stupid.

Getting Omar = not stupid.  I thought of it weeks ago but frankly have been afraid to say anything for fear of stirring up massive idiotic debates about whether he should have been let go.  Like Marcus Giles, he fills a need and only has one year left on a reasonable contract.

Again, so much depends on Crowe, who definitely will not play shortstop.  I don't think you switch Peralta to 2B just to switch him back a year later.  I don't think you switch Omar at all.  So if Crowe is working out, Omar doesn't make much sense unless Peralta hits badly again again -- and then you've eventually got your choice of Peralta and AstroCab at shortstop in 2008.

If Crowe doesn't work out, however, Omar makes even more sense.  Make Peralta switch now, end up with AstroCab at SS and Peralta at 2B rather than the other way around.  If you're going to have one middle infielder with a lot more glove than bat, you'd rather have him at shortstop than second base.

Crawford = bad fit for us.  I like him, but another speedy lefty with middling power?  How does that lineup work?  Unless you're willing to bat Crawford lower than 5th, I don't see it.  You're just asking to be shut down close/late by an average LOOGY.

by Jay on Sep 29, 2006 3:39 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
Oh, and Omar would have no say in the matter -- he's not a 10/5 guy and he doesn't have a no-trade clause.

(Quick side axiom.  Guys who go to the highest bidder rarely have no-trade clauses, which often are rationalized as protecting a player who gives a hometown discount, or any kind of discount.  If a player goes to the highest bidder and still gets a no-trade clause, it's a solid bet that the GM is an idiot and is going to be fired soon.)

Given that, I think he'd find a way to be happy to be retiring as an Indian (if he ever retires).

by Jay on Sep 29, 2006 3:42 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
Oh man would the housewives of cleveland rejoice! Now wouldn't signing Omar at SS, moving Peralta to second and allowing Crowe to reach the majors faster as an outfielder be acceptable. Problems I see this creating is Omar may only be here for a year, so you basically have to go out and get another SS FA or resign Omar, (this is if AsCab struggles, if he does not strugle than you have your replacement and defensive stud ready in house). The other problem is Kouz. If Crowe remains in the OF than Kouz is squeezed (potentially, unless you want to give up on Choo/Gutierez).

by hans on Sep 29, 2006 6:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
Stupid as in by the TBay organization, or a stupid and lacking satire?  I think it is hilarious that the team has completely given up on its season to the tune of not giving at bats to the majors best prospect.  That in mind, I do think Wedge could learn something, what is Blake/Micheals doing in the lineup?  Lets get Choo and Gutierrez the at bats to see if they are considerations for 2007.

What about batting Crawford 9th?

by Brandini on Sep 29, 2006 3:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
Stupid to place any importance whatsoever on the possiblity of a guy winning ROY, rather than giving him as many rips as possible.

Crawford 9th is an intriguing thought.  But you still end up with three lefties (with Sizemore and Hafner) bunched together in the lineup.  We don't want any three of these guys batting adjacent, so what do you do?

  1. Crawford
  2. ?
  3. Sizemore
  4. ?
  5. Hafner

I don't love it.  We actually have a bunch of great righty bats to plug in, but they're all going to clog up the basepaths.  Blake is the fastest among them, but does he make sense at leadoff?  And does anyone (Garko, Marte, Victor) make sense at #3?

One of the reasons I hate all this Sizemore-bats-3rd talk is that we should want both Sizemore and Hafner in the top three, and Sizemore-1 Hafner-3 is the best way to do that.  Crawford just doesn't fit in.

by Jay on Sep 29, 2006 4:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
Crawford has stated on occasion before that he doesn't like batting leadoff. I know that is silly (see the Giles thread), but he has publically stated it before.

by talonk on Sep 29, 2006 5:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
doesn't Sizemore lead the majors in runs scored? I can not see why we would want to change. It would be great to have a #3 hitter say like Gary Sheffield.  
Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Sep 29, 2006 6:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
Naw, I'm with Andrew here.  It's one thing if they kept him down for an extra month, but if we're talking 10 at-bats, I can't see it making much of difference to Young's development.

For the record, I'm not one of the people who flipped out when Hollandsworth pinch hit for Marte (or FG or whoever) in the ninth.

by dgcambridge on Sep 29, 2006 9:22 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
I don't see an issue with Crawford 9 and Sizemore 1, you break them up with Micheals/Choo/2b, followed by Hafner, Martinez and Garko and I think you are fine.  Hafners best spot in the lineup is either 3 or 4, and you would like to have the opponents have to use up a pitcher for Hafner alone.

by Brandini on Sep 29, 2006 10:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

An idea about Sizemore!
Hello Jay,

While I can see your point about keeping Sizemore and Hafner both in the Top 3, presuming Crowe makes it to the Majors as advertised, would a Top 3 of Crowe-Sizemore-Hafner be acceptable or would you not like Sizemore in the #2 spot?  Or do you think Sizemore should remain in the leadoff spot and Crowe should be in the #2 spot?  Personally, I think I would put Crowe #1 to take advantage of his speed and drop Sizemore into the #2 spot to take more advantage of his power (that would be even more useful if the bottom part of the order got on often so that Sizemore had many men on when he came to the plate.)

I think I read a comment from someone on here (sorry, don't remember who) who read a study about how the #2 hitter should have more power than many would think, so I thought Sizemore could fit into the #2 spot, even though he strikes out more than one would like (hopefully that improves with more experience.)

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Sep 30, 2006 5:42 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: An idea about Sizemore!
Sizemore is either leading off or hits 3rd, hitting 2nd would be a waste of his skills. If they do move Sizemore to hitting 3rd what is wrong with Hafner hitting 4th?  
Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Sep 30, 2006 5:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Jay and others would prefer to have him hit...
in the first inning!

Hello fanintexas,

Jay and others would like to see both Sizemore and Hafner hit in the first inning - that is not a guarantee if Hafner hits fourth.  That is why I suggested 2nd, though I would prefer him in the 3 spot myself.  I can see an argument for keeping Sizemore 1st as well, though I think I'd rather have Crowe batting in front of Sizemore, not behind.  That way, Sizemore's power would be more useful - unless the bottom of the lineup is constantly on-base, Sizemore's power won't lead to as many RBIs as it would lower than the leadoff spot.  

If Sizemore was lower in the lineup this year, it's possible he might have over 100 RBIs - he has 76 out of the leadoff spot, though his RS (134 after Saturday's game) would probably decrease, so it's a toss-up - do you want him to score more runs or drive more in?  I'm not sure - I could see an argument either way if Crowe makes it to the Majors as the player most expect him to become.  Until then, I would definitely keep Grady in the leadoff spot.

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Sep 30, 2006 11:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Additional thought on Sizemore hitting 3rd!
Hello again everyone,

When I think more about Sizemore in the 3 spot, it's possible he could still score more than 100 runs with Hafner, Garko, and Martinez behind him, so I'd still consider the #3 spot when Crowe comes up - all indications at this point seem to indicate that Crowe might make the ideal leadoff man because he has the pure speed and stolen base ability that Sizemore doesn't quite have.  Conversely, Sizemore has the power that Crowe doesn't have (Crowe might hit 15-25 HRs at most, whereas Sizemore probably could hit 30+ HRs, so that's why I would prefer Crowe in front of Sizemore in the future to take more advantage of Grady's power.)

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Sep 30, 2006 11:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: An idea about Sizemore!
Keep Sizemore in the top spot, bad Crowe second, and Hafner third...

by hans on Sep 30, 2006 6:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
I love Crawford, but I agree - he's not a great fit for us, and given what he would cost, I'm not sure it's a good move for us.  That's not to suggest that he won't be worth a high price to another franchise.

by mkwng on Sep 29, 2006 5:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
I've entertained the idea of an Omar return also.
I've always thought of Peralta as an eventual 3rd baseman, but Marte now has that position as his to lose.  Peralta at 2nd better than Peralta at SS.  Cabrera can be the man, if his glove is as good as reported.  Makes alot of sense to me.

Crawford I like.  Wedge may be content with Grady at leadoff, hoping to improve bottom of the order.

Grady, Omar, Crawford, Pronk, VMart, Garko, Blake, Marte, Inglett/Luna/FA.

by Chiefroy on Sep 29, 2006 6:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
Didn't mean to leave off Peralta, of course!

by Chiefroy on Sep 29, 2006 6:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
Whoa! I never thought about Omar. It does make sense in the scenario you talk about. Very interesting.

by oxforddave on Oct 1, 2006 12:08 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: What would you give for Crawford ?
Carl Crawford is overrated. He isn't worth giving up Sowers but if the D-Rays would do it for Lee, I would be up for it.

by Joe. on Sep 30, 2006 11:15 AM EDT   0 recs

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