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Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in Incentives

Hoynes is reporting that Keith Foulke passed his physical and that the Indians will sign him to a 1-year, $5 million contract with an additional $2 million in incentives. Also, there will be a mutual option for 2008. The Indians are claiming that Foulke and Borowski will compete for the closer's job in spring training, but I've got to believe that, if healthy, Foulke will be the clear favorite.

UPDATE: The AP and everyone else is reporting that the deal is done.  Apparently Foulke feels very strongly about the Indians organization.  I know this because his agent keeps saying it.  It will be nice to hear Keith say it, or anything, for himself.  Foulke gets $1 million less guaranteed, and $3 million less in incentives, than Gagne got from the Rangers.  The deal also includes a mutual option for 2008, which means nothing to anyone.

Brian Sikorski has been designated for assigment to make room for Foulke on the 40-man roster.  If he clears waivers, he'll be outrighted to Buffalo. [Jay]

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Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million
I am excited but that is a lot of money.  As long as we have more to spend and that doesnt max us out (does anyone know for sure if we do either now or at the deadline or for extensions???) I am fine with it...

by Tribe Alive on Jan 4, 2007 9:13 AM EST reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million
According to this: http://www.swerbsblurbs.com/teamContractDetail.php?theme=indians&season=2007
we're around $54M not counting Michaels and Betancourt - so say something south of $60M.  Add Foulke and you approach $65-67M.  This should still leave us some head-room if we need to pick up a player mid-summer.
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on Jan 4, 2007 9:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million
And Mulder???

We should do everything we can to get rid of Byrd's contract.  If Mulder or Carmona prove effective.

by Tribe Alive on Jan 4, 2007 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million
Looking closer it's more like $58M without Michaels, Betancourt and Miller.
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on Jan 4, 2007 10:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million
I guess the insurance of having a couple extra bullpen arms is worth it.  It cost us a good 10-20 games last year (EASY)...

So, in this day and age, we have to pay for some insurance.

That Howry deal (or even BJ Ryan) dont look so bad now...

by Tribe Alive on Jan 4, 2007 11:22 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million
I am willing to bet that if we had gotten Ryan last year, our bullpen would have been a little better and a lot of the headaches could have been avoided. But who knows. Betancourt and Cabrera both pitched pretty awful for stretches, so who's to say we still wouldn't have been bad.

But if Ryan was in the fold, we obviously would not have needed to sign Foulke or Borowski this year.

by talonk on Jan 4, 2007 11:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million
And, I think we got those two for the price of Ryan???

by Tribe Alive on Jan 4, 2007 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million
True, but we also wouldn't be looking for a closer again in the next offseason either with Ryan in the fold.

It seems to have worked out either way to me.

With Ryan, we just add a few RP arms, develop Sipp, etc in a few years.

Without him, we sign arms, and sign more arms again next offseason since all these guys are on one year deals. The money is being spent.

by talonk on Jan 4, 2007 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
About what we would have had to pay to keep Wickman, which one would you prefer?
Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Jan 4, 2007 12:07 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
About equal...we saw the best Wickman can give.  He is overall inconsistent but usually an average closer.

Foulke, if healthy, has shown to be a top closer in a game.  Maybe it is worth it to take a gamble when the only other option would have been an average closer or a rookie...

by Tribe Alive on Jan 4, 2007 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
I think this is pretty close to best case scenario for us.  $5M guaranteed is certainly best case, $2M in incentives is also probably best case.  

The mutual option is interesting, as it is for $5M plus any incentives that he earns this year, so up to $7 guaranteed.  It's obviously a small raise, too small for him to accept if he pitches well and earns his $2M in bonuses this year.  It seems to me that this option is built around him not being healthy all year or just being average this year, a middle ground option if you will.  Maybe there's more to the option year that isn't known yet, which would make more sense.

I'm a big fan of mutual option years for one reason that may just be me imagining things - I think it can set the mindset of the player that the signing team is interested in him, and may give an advantage to the team to resign him vs. other teams which may be pursuing him.  Does that make sense?

I (heart) this move, I'd say the best of ours this offseason.  Mind you, I'm not an fan, like most here are, of the Kouz/Barfield trade - I think we could get bit there.

by Thommy on Jan 4, 2007 1:41 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
Anyone heard who just got bumped off the roster to make room?
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jan 4, 2007 2:57 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
To make room on the 40-man roster for Foulke, righthander Brian Sikorski was designated for assignment
From the Plain Dealer

by sgtschuler5986 on Jan 4, 2007 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
Hoynes wrote in his blog that Shapiro said "Ryan Garko could start the season on the Indians bench or in Class AAA Buffalo."  Blake would play 1b against right-handed pitching with Choo in RF.  

Crap.  The only reason I can think of for this is they don't like Garko's defense and want him to improve while in AAA this year.  He can't be that bad when compared to Blake though, so what gives?  Anybody agree with this move?

Here's the article:
http://www.cleveland.com/weblogs/pdsports/index.ssf?/mtlogs/cleve_pdsports/archives/2007_01.html#221 686  

by Pronk33 on Jan 4, 2007 3:36 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
I don't know how wise it is to keep Garko in AAA for another year.  If at any time we intend for him to be our starting 1B, we might as well let him get used to it now since he's already had the end of 2006 to get his feet wet (and considering he's not getting any younger).  I just don't feel like Garko is going to be an Indian by August.

by nickjs21 on Jan 4, 2007 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
Not that I agree with the approach but it's becoming more and more likely (obvious?) that Shapiro doesn't think Garko will ever be the starting 1b. This might all change after ST but right now it seems like everything we read is bracing us for him going back to AAA/not starting/being traded.

And re: blake's defense, I'd think Blake would be one of the better defensive 1b in the AL if he were full time there, so the difference between Garko might be very pronounced if Garko hasn't made major strides. I don't know how to evaluate defense but everyone withing the organization, etc seems to think Casey is very, very good especially for an easy position.

by afh4 on Jan 4, 2007 5:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million
A bunch of intriguing stuff in that report from Hoynes.  The Garko thing is one, the contract extension reference for CC, Pronk and Jake is another.  

One odd comment, that I don't think can possibly be correct, is: "* Shapiro said the Indians payroll for 2007 has already exceeded projected revenues for the season."

The player payroll, all by itself, is higher than total projected team revenue?  That can't possibly be true.  What money source pays for operating costs for the stadium, non=player labor, the minor league costs, travel etc etc.?  

Hoynes obviously misspoke, but I can't think what he really means to say... unless maybe it's ticket revenue or tickets plus concession revenue (in other words, some subset of the overall total geared to fan support of the team).  

by MTF on Jan 4, 2007 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million
I'm sure that Shapiro comment is just management-speak.  Like you say, revenue is always a fuzzy concept for a multi-faceted industry.  And of course, a team can lose money on a season (though probably not as often as they'd like us to believe).  A negative year doesn't mean you have to go under.

by dgcambridge on Jan 4, 2007 7:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
Sorry Blake is a lot better defensive 1st baseman than Garko. Love Garko's approach at the plate but he is real bad in the field, he is more a DH/1st/Catcher.    
Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Jan 4, 2007 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
A word in defense of Fryan Flintstarko: Without him, Casey Blake is the only credible RH threat to go yard in the lineup. Marte and Gutz have both shown HR potential, but right now I'd be happy just to see some OBP from both (actually, either) of them. And, as Hammy was fond of saying last year, Garko's the first RH position player to flash some legit bat from the get-go since Manny.

Really, who else is gonna drive the ball from the right side on this team? Victor? Shoppach? Barfield? Michaels? And who's gonna come up from Boofalo to fill that role? Francisco? In a late-and-close situation against LHP (and let's forget our division includes the best lefties in the game), I'd rather have Garko up than any of them. Is that worth a few dropped put-outs and some roster inflexibility? I think so.

by fleerdon on Jan 4, 2007 6:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
We're certainly allowed to have our favorites but I don't think there's any doubt that Marte projects as the much better power hitter when compared to Garko and that projection might be reality as early as this year. Garko is a guy I like but I don't think he's got much more consistent pop than most of our other RH bats.

by afh4 on Jan 4, 2007 6:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
I don't disagree with your general point.  Would just point out that while Gaysey may be the only other credible RH threat to go yard, Haffy is still more likely to take a LHP out of the park (2006: 16 to 10 in shortened seasons for both players).  Given Pronk's fairly well-balanced production from the left side of the plate, we don't look too weak on the right.

by unfrozencaveman on Jan 4, 2007 6:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
Impolitic.  A pet name.  "Casey".

by unfrozencaveman on Jan 4, 2007 7:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
He seemed funnier in the Geico commercials...

by CaptainEasy on Jan 4, 2007 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
Your pet names are strange and confusing to me... I'm just a simple poster.

by nickjs21 on Jan 4, 2007 8:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
Nowhere does he claim to be a lawyer, just an unfrozen caveman.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jan 5, 2007 6:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
Bafield outslugged Garko vs lefties in '06.

Shoppach did too.  Marte and Peralta should hit better....both have power from the right side.

I hope there's room for Garko on the roster.  He'll be handy to have for PHing and for when Casey or Choo slumps.

by Chiefroy on Jan 4, 2007 7:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
In response...

afh, I'm all for watching kids get better instead of senior citizens get...more senior...(if Fausto were on another team, I would trade Byrd for him). but Garko is hardly a raw rookie in the usual sense, and he showed an ability to adjust not just from game to game, but within at-bats. I hope Marte pounds the ball, but that doesn't change the fact that garko, my favorite or not (that's up in the air), is productive RIGHT NOW. Why not see if he can keep it up?

caveman, i take your point, hafner's repronkulous, but he's only one man, albeit an abnormally large one. and i think he could become even more frightening with some better protection. by which i mean lots of home runs. (i dig longballs, okay? there are times when you really can't wait to string together 5 hits.)

roy, that's an encouraging observation about barfield, especially since he runs. we'll see how he holds up against AL pitching. as for shoppach, or jhonny "pedro cerrano II" peralta...i enjoy watching them play, but i don't think either of them are legitimate middle-of-the-order threats, at least not presently. garko has demonstrated that capacity.

by fleerdon on Jan 4, 2007 9:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
Garko's not as productive as we, as fans, tend to think. He was a lot of fun and had a bunch of big hits but that kind of thing isn't generally repeatable. In reality, Garko's probably a league average offensive first baseman, who can't really play defense. If he plays the whole year, I think you'd see a lot of people complaining about his power.

Now, it's possible he turns into some kind of monster. But it's pretty unlikely.

by afh4 on Jan 4, 2007 11:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
There are a lot of 'probably' and 'maybe' in your post.  My problem is that he was given a chance last season and he performed.  And he did it mostly without the big bat in the lineup around him to take the focus away.  I've read that he was already making adjustments within at bats.  For a midseason callup rookie, that's pretty dang-gone good.

As for his defense, he has made some comments himself on it acknowledging that he isn't all that good, but talking about working on it and needing more and more repetitions.  Wasn't he playing winter ball solely for that purpose?  By all accounts he's an intelligent guy who knows he has to work hard at it and is doing everything he can.

One other note about his defense, could part of the problem lie with who was throwing the ball to him?  I hate anecdotal  evidence, but while listening last season to games on the internet I swear I heard more than one comment on "nice grabs" or "nice dig" by Garko. I haven't seen him play at all, but I just can't imagine that he's the worst defensive 1B in the majors.  

With all the unknown out there on him, and the fact that (I'm sure we all can agree on this one) there is no chance he'll get better playing 1B if he never actually plays the position.  I feel that he's earned a chance to start this season.  Worst case scenario is that you replace him after a few weeks with an option already in place (Blake).  Plus, we all assume that Blake can play a decent first base because of his athleticism - but has he ever really done so?  Wouldn't there be a learning curve and adjustment there as well?  It's not like we'd be putting a ready-made gold glover there.

And while I agree that our offense is not the problem, if you change too many pieces around from one season to the next you are going to see changes in output.  Don't forget that part of the offensive juggernaut we had last season was due to Blake playing RF and 1B being highly productive position all season long.  Does Choo replace Blake's numbers in RF and does Blake replace 1B numbers?  Or do you end up having a dip in numbers from two positions?  Most here would acknowledge that I'm not a naysayer (typically I'm overly positive), but we have basically a rookie at 3B who hasn't shown he can hit in the majors yet (I'm sure he eventually will), a sophomore adjusting to a league change at 2B (sophomore slump - I really hope not), a bit of an unknown starting mostly in LF, and the hopes of a rebound at SS.  And that doesn't even cover Choo in RF - who has never started daily in the ML.  Doesn't putting a guy out there who has shown he can hit and offer some protection to the lineup take pressure off the rest of the offense?

by mjmarble on Jan 5, 2007 7:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
You're overreading what I'm saying. Garko is not going to provide the "power" in this lineup. His time in the majors last year was probably one of the best 50 game stretches of his career, and he still wouldn't have hit 25 HRs all year. He's not a real power prospect-he just turned 26 years old and the most homeruns he's ever hit in a year is 22. He hasn't slugged .500 since he was a 23 year old in AA. Marte put up a better slg in Buffalo last year than Garko and he's nearly 4 full years younger.

There are some very good arguments to keep Garko in the lineup and you seem enthusiastic enough about him to make them. But power from the RH side is not one of them, unless you really think those 50 games in Cleveland, as a 25 year old, represented some radical change in who Garko is as a player.

As somebody alraedy said, you're probably as likely to get 20 homeruns out of Barfield as you are out of Garko. As with Marte, age is the significant factor here.  

by afh4 on Jan 5, 2007 10:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
plus, he hasn't been around the leauge a few times.  how many guys come up and 'chris shelton' the heck out of the ball for a while then someone decides to see if he can hit something other than fastballs and then propmtly 'chris shelton' themselves back to AAA.

by Brick. on Jan 5, 2007 10:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
My problem is that he was given a chance last season and he performed.  And he did it mostly without the big bat in the lineup around him to take the focus away.  I've read that he was already making adjustments within at bats.  For a midseason callup rookie, that's pretty dang-gone good.

That stuff bothers me, too -- but why should everyone get so googly-eyed over an 829 OPS over 50 games?  Choo had an 846 OPS -- and plays defense!

I keep coming back to this:  Garko has about 1000 plate appearances in Buffalo, and there is no way to slice up the numbers to come to the conclusion that he's going to be a great hitter in the majors.  Now granted, that's just the numbers, it's not the scouting.  But how much are you willing to both ignore the numbers and replace the Indians' scouts' judgment with your own?

by Jay on Jan 5, 2007 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
First, thanks for a clutch use of the always-welcome modifier "googly." Second, I'm with mjm on this much: It's not so much that I see Garko as some kind of RH Thome, but that -- at least going into 2007 -- I can't see anyone with whom to replace him, especially if Blake is required to serve any length of time at one corner instead of all four. Or, for that matter, what if Casey gets hurt? Unless Paulie K got a sudden unsatiable taste for brown mustard and bizarre public art, I don't know who would play first.

I am neither ignoring the numbers nor disregarding the scouting reports. I'm just puzzled at the subtle undercurrent that seems to want Garko gone. For the reasons you and afh mention, he's probably not terribly valuable in trade, and he's cheap, and he's hardworking. And more than anything, I'm uninspired by the names underneath his on the depth chart.

by fleerdon on Jan 6, 2007 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
Well, for the record, I don't want to see Garko gone.  I am curious about what he'd do given an extended opportunity, and I think about the 1000 plate appearances we gave Ben Broussard -- who wasn't any better qualified as a prospect -- and can't for the life of me see why Garko can't get a few hundred.  Except, of course, that when Broussard was getting his extended look, we mostly were rebuilding.

I don't want to see Garko gone.  But I do see the argument that says that giving him playing time isn't an imperative, either.

by Jay on Jan 6, 2007 7:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Garko won't get any better sitting on the bench!
Hello fanintexas,

No offense, but Garko won't get any better at 1B if he sits on the bench; plus, how much better will he get at Buffalo?  I'm not sure playing at Buffalo will help his confidence offensively or defensively.

Like I've said before, Thome wasn't very good when he moved to 1B in 1997, yet he made himself into a capable 1B.  Who's to say that Garko couldn't improve himself, enough to be a solid, competent 1B?  After all, 1B is considered to be one of the easiest defensive positions on the field (compared to the MI or to 3B.)  

Plus, I didn't see where Garko was THAT bad over at 1B.  He might not have made every play that a Gold-Glover would have made, but he hardly embarrassed himself over there in my opinion either.  

Plus, Blake doesn't have much experience over there - just because he's good in the OF doesn't mean he's going to be stellar or Gold-Glove caliber over at 1B either.  And like I've said before, how many teams have a Gold-Glove 1B?  For every St. Louis with an Albert Pujols, there is a Chicago White Sox with Paul Konerko who wins a WS - having an above-average or Gold-Glove caliber 1B is not essential in my opinion to winning a WS.  I'd be more worried about Jhonny Peralta's defense at SS than I would over who is playing 1B.

Plus, who would you rather have long-term - Garko or Blake?  I think it's reasonable to assume that Blake's bat won't get any better, while Garko's has a realistic chance of improving.  Plus, Blake will be 34 in 2007, so his defensive skills and range aren't likely to get any better, and it's possible they could even decline.  Plus, Blake isn't a long-term answer - I doubt he'll be here beyond his current contract, especially with all the notable OF prospects we have coming through the system.  If Blake is still here past 2008, it most likely would be as a back-up/super utility guy, which isn't bad, but not quite a critical piece to future Indians' teams either at this point.

In other words, it's not a slam-dunk in my opinion that Garko should be relegated to the bench or AAA Buffalo in favor of Blake, especially after what he did the last two months of 2006.  It may be a small sample size, but doesn't that at least warrant a chance at a starting job?  I mean, what does he have to do, play Gold-Glove defense at 1B - how many 1B do that in this league today?  

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Jan 4, 2007 7:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko won't get any better sitting on the benc
Do you have any of the games taped from last year, if so watch his foot work around 1st?   Yes he can become an average 1st baseman with a lot of work, but right now he move like a catcher not an infielder.   Moving from 3rd to 1st is a lot easier than moving from catcher to 1st.  From my understanding he was a below average catcher because of his footwork also.  But I do love his bat and hope the work he has put
in this off-season has helped and he is our 1st baseman.
Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Jan 4, 2007 8:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
Just looked it up, Garko had 6 errors in 45 starts (396 innings).

by nickjs21 on Jan 4, 2007 8:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
Not to mention any "missed" scoops from Peralta, Marte, etc. that also went as errors for IFs

by talonk on Jan 4, 2007 8:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
that's really bad.

by homelytourist on Jan 4, 2007 10:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
I dont think its abnormal for a rookie/young player to go through stretches where they make defensive mistakes.  I think you (not just you, but everyone) are putting FAR too much on a firstbasemens ability to field.
Is he going to be Doug Mientkiewicz? Mark Teixeira?  Albert Pujols?  No.  But neither will Blake/Luna/Martinez or whoever else slides into first.

I would say, he'll be about average.  But for a 1B, I think anything short of "absolutely awful" isn't going to lose any games.

So what the organization needs to ask themselves is: What is our best option overall?
I am thinking they are suggesting that Choo's offense will be better then Garko's - I'm not sure I would agree.

Governor's Cup in '07!

by Brandini on Jan 5, 2007 8:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
I agree with everything until ...

I am thinking they are suggesting that Choo's offense will be better then Garko's - I'm not sure I would agree.

What they are actually guessing is that their best option is:

  • Choo-RF + Blake-1B defense rather than Blake + Garko ... and
  • Choo + Blake offense vs. RHP rather than Blake + Garko or Choo + Garko

I think Garko will get most of the at-bats vs. LHP, and given the three players' defensive skills, it's hard to argue that Garko should be out there against RHP.

Here's what gets lost in these discussions:  Choo is every bit as good of an overall prospect as Garko and probably better.

by Jay on Jan 5, 2007 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
I'd say Choo is a decidedly better prospect, but I think we're just jonesing for a power RH bat.  Random - Just looked at Choo's numbers, and it looks like he'll strike out a ton next year (50k in 157AB last year).

by Thommy on Jan 5, 2007 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
Wait...I get to say this year now.  Exciting!    Speaking of which, I just got a mailer encouraging me to buy spring training tix - happy days.

by Thommy on Jan 5, 2007 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
What are we about 40 days away from pitchers and catchers reporting?  I'm with you buddy, good times are coming.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jan 5, 2007 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
Don't forget about the Browns playoff game!
Wait 'til next year... or something like that

by Brad D on Jan 5, 2007 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
I realize it's sacrilege around these parts, but I'm a Titans fan.  They almost did make the playoffs this year!
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jan 5, 2007 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
You mean the Oilers 2.0?
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on Jan 5, 2007 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
Wouldn't the Texans be version 2.0?
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jan 5, 2007 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
What possible good reason could there be for bringing that up?

by Jay on Jan 5, 2007 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
Initially, I thought the same thing about the Browns playoff game.  Has this diary been hijacked?
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jan 5, 2007 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
The Browns are not entirely off-topic.  The Titans most assuredly are completely off-topic, along with any other team that wasn't around in 1950.

by Jay on Jan 5, 2007 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
Oh I see, it's like that is it?
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jan 5, 2007 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
To be honest the whole Garko discussion isn't too closely related to Keith Foulke's signing either.

by Jackdaw on Jan 5, 2007 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
Yes, but that's merely thread-hijacking, and I'm not even sure that's a crime anymore.

by Jay on Jan 5, 2007 5:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
I was merely venting, somewhat sarcastically, I apologize for any damage I may have done to this thread or the orignator thereof. A hijacking was not my intent. I'm not here to talk about the past.
Wait 'til next year... or something like that

by Brad D on Jan 5, 2007 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
Pfft, I think I have you topped...I'm a Bengals fan!
Governor's Cup in '07!

by Brandini on Jan 5, 2007 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
And it all comes into focus...
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jan 5, 2007 9:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
who dey?

by homelytourist on Jan 5, 2007 9:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
One of the women I work with was in Cincinnati last weekend and said that she saw T-shirts saying the following:

WHO DEY...

Gonna arrest next?

The Unofficial Andy Marte, Joe Borowski and Mark Shapiro apologist.

by woodsmeister on Jan 5, 2007 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
what effect does OUR pitcher on the mound have to do with the first base starter?  we talk a lot about who plays first when we face RHP vs. when we face LHP batting-wise.  But defense seems to be a big part of this equation, and won't the indians' SP have an effect on who is manning 1B?  

Is there an increse in chances to 1B with a righty on the mound?  Westbrook is a ground ball pitcher, etc.

by Brick. on Jan 5, 2007 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
I would suggest they are two different prospects...

As you know:
Choo is the toolsy type that scouts and experts love.  He has that awesome OBP to go along with it.
Garko is the prototypical player that has to be that much better then the "toolsy" player just to get a shot (this is outlined in the "Does Size Matter" column over at THT).
For a team like Cleveland that more or less REFUSES to run, much of Choo's "toolsy-ness" is eliminated and his advantage over Garko is defensively.

However, what I was stating is that the minor upgrade of Blake over Garko at 1B and Choo over Blake at RF is not very significant.  That is why I concluded that the FO must have higher expectations offensively for Choo.
I do not see Garko as having ANY shot at making the team if he isn't going to make it as a full timer, that would force too many platoons and would contradict any rational behind signing Perez last season.

Governor's Cup in '07!

by Brandini on Jan 5, 2007 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Garko
I don't know what you mean by "experts," but when the scouts and statheads agree on a guy, I'm generally on board.  I don't think either camp is in love with Choo, but I think he projects fairly well in everyone's estimation.  A guy with a lot of physical talent who also has a disciplined approach at the plate is a pretty good bet to go a long way.

When a player is described as "toolsy," it means he has all-around athletic ability and exhibits raw talent in most if not all of the traditional "five tools" (catcthing, throwing, running, hitting and power-hitting).  I'm not sure how you're using it, as you seem to be saying something different.

I don't think the two-position defensive upgrade is entirely marginal, but it would be foolish not to expect Choo to outhit Garko against RHP.  You could argue that Garko and Blake are a wash against RHP, but Blake clearly has the edge on defense in that case.

Given the talent we have, I think it's pretty obvious that they're starting in the right place.  The real question is, if you believe strongly in Garko's talent, who should get traded?

by Jay on Jan 5, 2007 6:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Garko
You're really surprised by the Garko news?  Blake's a better first baseman, had equivalent major league numbers, and can also play the OF, while Garko still has an option.

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on Jan 4, 2007 5:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Good point about the option, but...
Hello mkwng,

still, I'm not sure it will help Garko long-term, and arguably, Garko is probably more valuable to us long-term than Blake is, both because he is likelier to improve than Blake will, not to mention the fact that he is cheaper and we have very few 1B alternatives in the system at this point - outside of Head, who needs to bounce back from a mediocre to poor 2006 season - Garko might be the best option we have long-term at 1B.  Blake turning 34 this year isn't going to help us long-term at 1B in my opinion, and the chances of us picking up a quality 1B in FA are slim; unless we trade for someone like a Kotchman or a Morales, I don't see who is going to play 1B for us long-term unless Head really turns it around in 2007.

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Jan 4, 2007 7:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Good point about the option, but...
But indiansfan, even if Garko toils away in AAA for another year, he would still be a potential long-term option at 1B, right?

by Jeffrey R on Jan 4, 2007 7:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Good point about the option, but...
I think that, more than any position in baseball, the first baseman is fungible.  Garko's certainly not without value, but I think the brass looks at his skill set and sees a poor defensive first baseman with the potential to provide league average offense.  

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on Jan 4, 2007 9:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Good point about the option, but...
Just something to think about here: what do you do when Blake gets injured again next year if Garko has already been shipped out?  I'm sure the FO has thought about that, so I would hope they don't trade him (unless something great falls in their lap again, of course).

   

by Pronk33 on Jan 5, 2007 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Good point about the option, but...
This is the reason why Garko's going to get substantial playing time. Besides getting regular at-bats against left-handers, any number of things can happen which will lead to Ryan being the everyday first baseman:

(1) Choo struggles/gets injured (Blake to RF)
(2) Marte struggles/gets injured (Blake to 3B)
(3) Blake struggles/gets injured (Garko to 1B)
(4) Dellucci gets injured (Blake to LF)

Besides, as you mentioned, there aren't that many other (natural) first basemen in the high minors.

by Ryan on Jan 5, 2007 10:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Good point about the option, but...
Normally, keeping a guy like Garko (who's so limited defensively) on the bench would hinder the flexibility of the roster.

Blake's versatility is what should allow Garko to start the season in Cleveland, not Buffalo.

by The DiaTriber on Jan 6, 2007 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Good point about the option, but...
Ryan, your points on (1) through (3) express very well what I've also been thinking about why Garko should get playing time.

However, when it comes to (4), wouldn't it seem more likely that Choo would move to left and Blake would stay in RF; still more playing time for Garko but a little different twist.

Of course the other possibility for (4) is that Michaels gains more playing time (gasp!) or one of our other million OFs gets a shot, such as Gut coming up from Buffalo.

by kov on Jan 8, 2007 8:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
Maybe its because of the slow baseball news cycle, but this feels like the most drawn out, anticlimactic signing of the offseason.  I'm really glad to have him around and honestly believe that he has a good chance at success next season - but I'm just all kinds of blah-blah about it at this point.

by mjmarble on Jan 4, 2007 3:38 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
Yeah, I almost didn't even move the Diary to the main section.  It's barely even news at this point.  The news is basically that Shapiro is willing to admit it.

by Jay on Jan 4, 2007 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
As I figured: you just couldn't resist my sparkling prose.
Railing against the sacrifice bunt since 2000.

by jdudas on Jan 4, 2007 9:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
It seems like all the deals this time of year are one long fan dance.  Bonds - the Unit - Zito - Mulder - it just seems to take forever.  Another reason I can't wait until spring training, when we'll really have something to talk about.
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on Jan 4, 2007 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Foulke to Sign for $5 Million, $2 Million in I
I think its because of the holidays...Blame Jesus for being born-sorta.
Governor's Cup in '07!

by Brandini on Jan 5, 2007 8:48 AM EST up reply actions  

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