Say what, Manny?!!

by DixonCayne on Oct 18, 2007 6:38 AM EDT

"It doesn't happen, so who cares? There's always next year. It's not like it's the end of the world."

Imagine Grady saying that? At this point in time? Or ever? I don't think so.

After his homer nonsense, you'd think he'd might lay low, but that lovable Manny is just being, well, you know...

GO C.C.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Say what, Manny?!!

Not the first time, won't be the last.

He is completely detached from the fans who pay to see him.

I'm more amused by Jackie MacMullan's hilarious flip-flop on Pedroia. Looks like the angry little man got to her.

by tabler84 on Oct 18, 2007 8:02 AM EDT 0 recs

Re: Say what, Manny?!!

I bet most players with more than 10 years in the league feel the same way. They are just not dumb enough to say it.

Do you think Jeter is stewing about his loss a week ago?

by Toxicadam on Oct 18, 2007 8:19 AM EDT 0 recs

Yeah, don't think you can expect everyone to have that same hunger once they're older and have actually had the success...its gotta be different. I guess Manny is essentially enjoying playing and not that bothered with winning/losing. Obviously he really shouldn't be saying it, cause those fans who buy tickets and pay his wages do give a shit.

You wouldn't necessarily hear Grady or anyone say it because they still have that desire to win it all at least once....and they're not idiots

by Luis (Tribe Fan in London) on Oct 18, 2007 8:27 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Say what, Manny?!!

As much as I hate Jeter - yes, I do think he's still stewing about it. I think he wants to win ALL the time.

by DixonCayne on Oct 18, 2007 8:37 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Say what, Manny?!!

Somehow I think Jeter is definitely NOT stewing about his loss.

Link

Either that, or he has a strange way of expressing his grief.

by Pronktastic on Oct 18, 2007 9:07 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Say what, Manny?!!

I've never heard "stewing" used with quite those connotations before.

"Nice shooting. Don't get cocky." - Han Solo

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Oct 18, 2007 11:53 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Say what, Manny?!!

I agree. Manny just wants hit bombs and make those shaky looking catches on routine fly balls.

I think it totally effects the clubhouse. It is potentially cancerous. You get guys like Youkilis, Pedroia, Tek, Lowell, Ortiz who all want to win.

I think the most important question that makes all of this a non issue is: "Does Manny's attitude about winning effect his play?" Well, look at his stats...So he's not dogging it obviously, but you have to think his teammates are annoyed by his comments a little.

-Bo

by bodiaz74 on Oct 18, 2007 9:08 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Say what, Manny?!!

Link?

by JulioBernazard on Oct 18, 2007 8:37 AM EDT 0 recs

Re: Say what, Manny?!!

Link to one of the stories that mention it.

by Thommy on Oct 18, 2007 9:20 AM EDT 0 recs

Re: Say what, Manny?!!

I said it to someone today, if Manny was smarter, I'd say he's trying to get his team to play loose.

In reality, though, he isn't and he's not.

by painaxl on Oct 18, 2007 10:11 AM EDT 0 recs

Re: Say what, Manny?!!

It's funny how many sports fans have exactly one idea of how an athlete should behave. Almost any deviation from this is unacceptable, especially when 1) your team isn't winning 2) you aren't playing well and 3) you don't profess complete adoration for your present 'home' town. I'm sure there are others.

Anyway, Manny's actually being very Zen, just like he's always been. I'm actually quite jealous of the man; as fans we can't handle the stress when 'our' team, 300 miles away, might lose a game. He is the #4 hitter on one of those teams, and he's relatively stress free.

Mind you, he should have probably kept his mouth shut, as not everybody is as enlightened as he is. Did I just type that?

by Thommy on Oct 18, 2007 10:36 AM EDT 0 recs

Re: Say what, Manny?!!

There's a thin line between Zen perspective and dickish apathy.

I feel pretty sure that gloating about a solo shot is NOT ZEN.

by NickFantana on Oct 18, 2007 10:58 AM EDT up 0 recs

Why do we hate on Manny so much??

The guy was one of the best Indians ever, no doubt. He was a key piece of our return to the playoffs after forty freaking years (which was pathetic and embarassing to all Cleveland sports fans).

The organization let him go -- he would have stayed had they actually shown some real interest in re-signing him (and not last minute interest only to give an excuse for the fans as to why he left).

I am rooting against him, obviously. I hope he has a bad night and his team loses. He is obnoxious sometimes, but he was the same here. But in the end, I hope we pay tribute to him when he retires and we recognize that he ain't Albert Belle and that we were lucky to have had such a great player on our team.

by Chief WaJew on Oct 18, 2007 1:48 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Why do we hate on Manny so much??

"The organization let him go..."

Simply wrong.

Required Reading for people that believe this.

by Brick. on Oct 18, 2007 1:51 PM EDT up 0 recs

How's that not true?

They only matched Boston's offer at the last minute and even then, as I recall, it still was materially not as good in that it required him to reach certain performance milestones.

by Chief WaJew on Oct 18, 2007 3:13 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: How's that not true?

We really should have matched Boston's offer, because they are so happy with that contract. They've done EVERYTHING they can do to keep him, and would never have considered trading him. I really regret how things have turned out and how this situation shows what a stupid organization we have. Somebody get Shapiro a gorilla suit....STAT!

by Nat on Oct 18, 2007 3:35 PM EDT up 0 recs

Did I say we had a stupid organization?

No. Re-read what I wrote. I said there's no reason to dislike Manny, and that he did not betray Cleveland at all. If Boston is unhappy with the contract then Cleveland made the right decision, but that doesn't mean that Manny somehow betrayed us -- he took the best deal he could get.

by Chief WaJew on Oct 18, 2007 3:49 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Did I say we had a stupid organization?

First, new guy, you're in over your head here. You're getting kicked around because your characterizations go beyond the facts.

Second, the Indians did show serious interest in signing Manny. They did not wait until the last minute. And their offer still would have been the second-biggest contract in the history of the game -- behind only A-Rod -- and a disastrous move for the team. I think that's "serious" interest.

Third, even though the Indians showed serious interest, I agree with you that Manny didn't betray us. Jacobs wouldn't allow Hart to make him a serious offer until he reached free agency, and he then took the highest offer. He also said at the time that he thought Pedro and the Sox had a better chance to win a pennant than the Indians going forward.

(He was wrong about that in 2001, but not over the whole contract. Interestingly, the Indians beat all their departed big guys back to the postseason. Belle never made it back after leaving, and Thome hasn't either. Manny made it back in 2003, but the Indians went without him in 2001.)

Fourth, Manny was not necessarily a key piece in our return to the playoffs. He was the third-best hitter on the 1995 team and arguably only the 8th or 9th most valuable player on that team -- and we won the division by 30 games.

Fifth, your username is in poor taste, in my opinion. I know you just meant it to be funny, a tribute to both of your "tribes," but thousands of people read this site, and for every one person who gets it, ten more will think it's offensive, not realizing how you meant it. And it isn't that funny.

Sixth ... welcome to the site, buddy.

by Jay on Oct 18, 2007 5:03 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Did I say we had a stupid organization?

Indeed, Welcome!

If you need help with a new screen name, just let us know. We'll start a poll. Actually, that'd be kind of funny if we picked your new screen name.

My first two nominations are Sharkbait and Squishy

Now I want to change my name - you should totally be squishy.

by Thommy on Oct 18, 2007 6:09 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: How's that not true?

by golly you're right! they might as well have not offered him anything at all - total slap in the face to manny.

thanks for reminding me how exactly things went down and highlighting the one piece of the puzzle that allows us to draw such black and white conclusions. life is so much easier for me now.

by Brick. on Oct 18, 2007 3:40 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Why do we hate on Manny so much??

This has GOT to be some sort of troller with that ID...."Chief WaJew". Go crawl back Under the Monster.

by Nat on Oct 18, 2007 2:09 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Why do we hate on Manny so much??

Uh no. The name's a joke. I'm a longtime Cleveland Indians and Browns fan -- guarantee I can take you to school on history re those teams.

by Chief WaJew on Oct 18, 2007 2:58 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Why do we hate on Manny so much??

Well you maybe a history whiz, but anybody that thinks Manny was gonna give us a "hometown discount" is naive.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Oct 18, 2007 3:28 PM EDT up 0 recs

Who said anything about a hometown discount?

Jesus, read what I wrote.

by Chief WaJew on Oct 18, 2007 3:51 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Why do we hate on Manny so much??

And, oh yeah. they let Albert Belle go - a more effective RBI machine. Was that a good thing or a bad thing? Given the choice, at the time, I'd rather they kept Belle.

Anyway, we've got no time for this negative bullshit - we're about to win us another American League pennant. Come back later son, after the WS Championship parade.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Oct 18, 2007 3:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Why do we hate on Manny so much??

Hear! Hear!!

by talonk on Oct 18, 2007 3:32 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Say what, Manny?!!

"3) you don't profess complete adoration for your present 'home' town. "

- See about 6500 posts on this site about LeBron James's hat. Or, better yet, don't.

by JulioBernazard on Oct 18, 2007 11:57 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Say what, Manny?!!

now who won't let the lebron thing go?

we get it. you love lebron unconditionally.

by Brick. on Oct 18, 2007 12:15 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Say what, Manny?!!

Well, it was a picture-perfect example of what the poster was describing.

Go Tribe!

by JulioBernazard on Oct 18, 2007 1:12 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Say what, Manny?!!

The difference being Lebron is from Akron. And anyone from Akron who roots for the Yankees and the Cowboys is a douche.

by afh4 on Oct 18, 2007 1:13 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Say what, Manny?!!

best. word. ever.

by Thommy on Oct 18, 2007 1:18 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Say what, Manny?!!

Go Tribe!

I'm retiring from this debate, in any diary.

by JulioBernazard on Oct 18, 2007 1:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Say what, Manny?!!

So you don't wanna step outside on this one cowboy?

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Oct 18, 2007 3:18 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Say what, Manny?!!

No. And actually, I wish we could have met before/after ALDS Game 4.

by JulioBernazard on Oct 18, 2007 4:51 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Say what, Manny?!!

Manny's comment was dumb, but it's probably that attitude that allows him to be a ridiculously good hitter. I definitely am on board with the comment above about Jeter -- seen as one of the best competitors in baseball, but there's no way he's still dwelling on the loss, at least not to any kind of degree that compares with the way big Yankee fans are still dwelling on it.

by CU Adam on Oct 18, 2007 10:43 AM EDT 0 recs

Re: Say what, Manny?!!

Manny is one of the greatest hitters of all time; his attitude and approach is a key reason for this success. The problem is that the team must realize they are trading off his great skill against the problems he can cause among teammates. On the face of it, I can't imagine any ballplayer in the Red Sox clubhouse being happy with his attitude. It must rub them the wrong way, and they shrug and say "That's Manny being Manny." This requires some degree of psychological effort misdirected from the baseball focus they need. They can appease themselves by knowing that he hits like the dickens, but Manny does nothing else to help his team in any other way.

A team is a collection of 25 men and each has a unique role. In some ways it is very measurable, like hits, strikeouts and home runs. In other ways, though, you cannot measure the value a player brings to the team, as a teacher, friend, or shield.

In 2004, the Red Sox had several players to counterbalance Manny and the spotlight he attracted: Millar, Damon, Pedro to name a few that stood out in the spotlight. Even lesser known stars like Cabrera, Mueller, Lowe, Foulke and Nixon were "stand-up" guys who would balance the outrageousness of Manny's spotlight (and the sheer brightness of Ortiz's spotlight).

Anyway, the 2007 Manny is no different from the Manny of 2005, 2004, 2003 and so forth. The difference this year is that all of the other Red Sox players do not have the right temperament to handle the situation. Some do, but many key ingredients are missing.

Go Tribe. Obliterate the Red Sox tonight. Please win it at home for the fans.

by Spidey on Oct 18, 2007 1:01 PM EDT 0 recs