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[I]ntentional over-reactions Thread

I was going to allow all Ideas tonight, bad or good, but that's no excuse for senseless whining. Back to basics. No good Ideas. Without humor, we'd just like Cubs fans, but penniless. So what say you, Cleveland? Shall we scale some Mountains of Change?

For my part, I have only one:

Next year, Paul Hoynes should pick the Indians to finish fifth in the Central.

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Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
1.  These threads should not be made until at least a week after our season ends.
Tribe fan from far, far away

by LGT Patrick on Oct 22, 2007 12:11 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
Tyler, I was confused by your explanation.  I'll use this space to come up with my best intentional over-reaction with no good ideas.

Trade CC and Fausto straight up for Josh Beckett and Curt Schilling.  Trade Cabrera for Pedroia, trade Martinez for Varitek and Hafner for Ortiz.  Then, change our name to the Boston Red Sox, triple our payroll and trade in all of our dedicated life-long fans (I'm looking at you Chuck) for a bunch of clueless bitches in pink hats.

Because I, like a many of the game threaders, would  be happier with winning at any cost than with winning fair.

by NickFantana on Oct 22, 2007 12:15 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
"Change our name to the Boston Red Sox, triple our payroll and trade in all of our dedicated life-long 'true baseball' fans ... for a bunch of clueless bitches in pink hats."

I have circulated this to some true Red Sox fans who are all laughing their asses off...

by stuart dean on Oct 22, 2007 8:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
honestly i don't see how this team can reasonably get any better within the available budget, so i can't even think of anything to propose. it's possible they'll be better next year just due to maturation, or they could be worse, or someone else -- Tigers? Yankees? Athletics? -- could be better still, or get lucky as hell, and keep this team out of the Series again.

i'm sure Shapiro will be working all the angles, but what the #*@% else is he supposed to do? this team had the best record in baseball, two unstoppable starters, a decent lineup top to bottom, and what appeared to be enough moxie to get it done.

the only thing i can even think of is looking for a replacement for Carl Willis, who didn't get much out of his guys this postseason, but i think that's probably an overreaction. i mean, he sure got a lot out of them during the season.

by jeremy on Oct 22, 2007 12:17 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: Unintentional over-reactions Thread
Shelton didn't help with too many adjustments, either, but I imagine those guys are safe.

by JulioBernazard on Oct 22, 2007 12:35 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
Leo Mazzone is now a free agent...
"Nice shooting. Don't get cocky." - Han Solo

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Oct 22, 2007 11:56 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
I on the verge of tears. How is that for a reaction?
Dealing with it.

by fwembt on Oct 22, 2007 12:23 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
to my red sox fan girlfriend who i decided recently i may love:

thanks.  thanks for picking last night and tonight to introduce me to your mom for the first time.  and thanks even more for deciding -- both nights at the last minute -- that the best way for us to get to know each other would be by watching these games together.

no smoking.  no drinking.  no cursing.  no lgt.

just us, in front of a tv, and me spending 50% of the time dying on the inside and 50% of the time catering to your mom and hoping i was making a good impression.

i'm officially breaking up with you.  just as soon as you find this site.  and read this post.  and figure out it is me.  none of which will ever happen.   in the meantime, though, i guess i'll just keep hanging out with you and pretending i don't want the rockies to kick the living hell out of the sox.

Asdrubal: Spanish form of "Hasdrubal". Means "Ba'al helps" from Phoenician azru "help" combined with the name of the god BA'AL.

by jonnykilbane on Oct 22, 2007 12:33 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
ouch man, mega ouch

by mikebrowns26 on Oct 22, 2007 12:36 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
I feel for you. My wife was eventually won over and spent tonight sweating right along with me.
Dealing with it.

by fwembt on Oct 22, 2007 12:36 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
in all honesty, she was great and so was her mom.

at one point, when westbrook was shaky in the 2nd, she asked, "why are your hands so clammy?"

uh, because it's post-season baseball, baby.

the real issue at this point is whether i watch the sox with her.  she'd watch the tribe if they had gone on to the series for sure.  but, then again, she has no idea how painful it'd be for me.  i think i'm going to be a totally undercover rockies fan for the next few weeks.

Asdrubal: Spanish form of "Hasdrubal". Means "Ba'al helps" from Phoenician azru "help" combined with the name of the god BA'AL.

by jonnykilbane on Oct 22, 2007 12:42 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
you've got a keeper. buy her a pink #$%* hat.

by jeremy on Oct 22, 2007 1:00 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
Don't give up.  I saved my wife from Red Sox Nation.  It wasn't easy, but she was cheering along with me spewing nasty comments at Pedroia and Papelbon.

It can happen.  You just have to realize that de-programming will be difficult.

Good luck - and if this relationship should progress to deeper commitment, pledge that the children shall be raised Tribe fans.  

by Spidey on Oct 22, 2007 12:46 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
I told the key chicks in my life that I get a pass during the playoffs.  
To my wife: "I am not going out anywhere with anyone for any reason; I won't even discuss it".  I will be short and maybe even a little mean but I love you so let it go".  
To my Mom:  "I love you but my manners are suspended.  I have no interest in having a family get together to watch the game and if you have one, I won't show".  

by stuart dean on Oct 22, 2007 9:44 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
My wife is a Steelers fan.  I feel your pain.  I watched their most recent SuperBowl victory at her parents' house.  It was unbearably awful.
"Nice shooting. Don't get cocky." - Han Solo

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Oct 22, 2007 11:58 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
Skinner should arrive at the hotel tonight to find that he has no reservation.

by JulioBernazard on Oct 22, 2007 12:34 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
it's a pretty funny mental image.

by ASP on Oct 22, 2007 12:39 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
I appreciate (over the other threads) the attempts to keep things in perspective (i.e. positive) because overall, yes, the organization is strong.  

But, wow.  I would like to be positive about the past three games, but I don't see how it's possible.  It feels like a choke to me even though I can't prove it statistically.  Or in the Wedge vernacular, there was a lot of "pressing" going on.

As we all know, it's so hard to get here (the ALCS) and when you go up 3-1 with CC and Fausto to pitch, you just have to win.  As good as this team is (and will be) and as much as I enjoyed them, the playoffs are promised to no team.

by rog on Oct 22, 2007 12:38 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
I think mostly because 3 of our best players struggled SO much.  I don't know.  When that double play ball hit the lip and bounced over Peralta's head, I got the worst sinking feeling.

by rog on Oct 22, 2007 12:51 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
I'm gonna rate this 3rd most painful Tribe playoff loss in the modern ERA

  1. 97 WS - duh

  2. 99 ALDS - Only because we were winning 5-2. I can still remember the air coming out of the stadium after Oleary's slam, also remember thinking Kenny's separated shoulder was the death knell.

  3. This, not #2 only because it was amazing we were in a game 7 to begin with, especially considering the way our aces and slugger performed.

  4. 95 WS

  5. 01 ALDS

by mikebrowns26 on Oct 22, 2007 12:39 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
I actually would insert the 1996 ALDS (to Baltimore) in the #3 spot.  And the 1998 ALCS was worse than the 2001 ALDS, going up 2-1 on by far the best team.

by Jay on Oct 22, 2007 12:50 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
I was only 11 years old but for some reason I never seemed too upset about Baltimore in 96. Maybe its because we exacted revenge the following year. '98 was just a beatdown by NY.

by mikebrowns26 on Oct 22, 2007 1:07 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
Also!

While not playoff losses per se, being eliminated in the last day or two of the season, 2000 and 2005, sucked worse than almost anything on the list.  And 1994 sucked pretty bad, too.

by Jay on Oct 22, 2007 1:07 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
I recall being at the Browns/Ravens game that day in 2000 and the PA announcers came on and said David Wells had been knocked out of the game.

I also remember listening to the Indians call in show later and remembering the host (probably Keane, not sure though) specially saying "Its official, there will be no playoff baseball this year". Huge kick in the nads.

by mikebrowns26 on Oct 22, 2007 1:12 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
honestly this one's at the top of my list, but only because during the 90s i never realized just how difficult it is to succeed in the postseason and how dependent on luck even a great team is. it always seemed like they'd be back the next year.

this one is also at the top of my list because the Braves and Marlins are lame, not evil. the Junior Yankees are evil. we just lost to evil.

by jeremy on Oct 22, 2007 1:05 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
I went to 25 game this summer including 2 playoff games, by far the most I've ever been too in a summer.

I will say I was easily more emotionally (and financially i guess) invested in this team than the ones in the 90s

by mikebrowns26 on Oct 22, 2007 1:10 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
What he said, divide games by a third.

Completely crushed right now (and being drunk is not helping).

--
"I love baseball. You know it doesn't have to mean anything, it's just beautiful to watch." - Woody Allen

by vbc3 on Oct 22, 2007 3:45 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
There's the rub.  They'll definitely be good going forward, but sometimes that's not good enough.

by rog on Oct 22, 2007 1:19 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Measuring the pain
From most to least painful, I rank the playoff losses as follows, with short explanations:

97 - It was ripped right out of my hands
99 - A nightmare
96 - I expected them to win it all
95 - All four losses were by one run
01 - Our ace failed to close it out at home
98 - I hate the Yankees
07 - I never expected to be here

Looking at that list, measuring the pain, I have to mention one thing.  I was born in 1955.  Until the Indians actually made the post-season in 1995, when I had been going to Indians games for 31 years, I never really expected them to be playing in October.  I was conditioned, by a lifetime of futility, to expect nothing.

David Letterman once had a Top Ten List of ways that you know at the start of the season that your team will not win the World Series.  The No. 1 reason was "The name of your team rhymes with Schmindians."  The team and the town were a joke.

Looking at that list, I realized that the Indians have been in the post-season for seven of the last thirteen years.  It isn't the championship that everyone wants, but it ain't nothin' either.

by JamesPowell on Oct 22, 2007 1:53 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Measuring the pain
Excellent point, this last one.

I realized at the end of the regular season that, as frustrating as all of this can be, the Tribe has actually been consistently one of the best teams in baseball during my quarter century on earth, or at least during the part of that span that I've spent paying attention to baseball. Some Tribe fans have been waiting since '48... I've only been really waiting since '94, and I've had the opportunity to watch some pretty exciting baseball while I wait.

by jeremy on Oct 22, 2007 2:09 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

And by the way
The Indians' seven playoff appearances since the 1994 strike (a true, watershed moment) is the same as the Red Sox and Cardinals.  Only the Yankees and Braves have more.

Cold comfort, I know, but this is one of the elite franchises of this era.  After the would-be dynasty team of the 90s retired or went away, a new one was rebuilt.  Shapiro has done a great job.

by JamesPowell on Oct 22, 2007 2:10 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Measuring the pain
I was born in September of '48 so I don't remember the last World Series title, but I was around for it.  I vaguely remember going to the Stadium with my dad in '54 but I have no real recollection of that Herculean collapse.  No, my first recollection of Tribe fan misery was the '59 season - you may have heard about it - The Rock was clouting home runs and wowing the ladies like Grady Sizemore.  Vic Power was playing a Gold Glove first base, our SS, Woody Held - who we got from the Kansas City A's for Roger Maris - was smackin' homers and running a butcher shop in the field, not unlike our current SS.  And we had a tremendous outfield of Colavito, Piersall and Minoso.  Had a hot hitting rookie too, a guy named Francona.  And pitching - only one 19 game winner - MacLish but we had a promising rookie named Perry - Gaylord's big brother Jim.  And, oh yeah, a closer of Polish decent named Brodowdoski - a favorite of the guys down on Fleet Ave.  But then they collapsed in the last weeks of the season and the White Sox shot passed them and promptly shit the bed in the WS against  Koufax and Drysdale.  

This was followed by 35 years of the worst baseball in all of Christendom.  Highlighted by criminally inept management, horrible trades, bad pitching, bad hitting and bad fielding all carried out in a wind tunnel designed for football.  Unimaginably bad.  But I loved going to that old park and seeing the emerald green grass and smelling the green hot dogs swimming in grey water and hearing the bull-frogged voiced hecklers bust Davalillio about his "power" or Tom Hilgendorf about his closer "skills".  But the one thing we never - ever - dreamed about was a pennant, let alone a World Series Championship.  Cuz, you know, we're talkin' about the Indians for chrissake.  We got no shot.  It was always the Yankees, and then the Orioles and then the A's and even the Royals for cryin out loud.  It was never us - never.

So I don't wanna hear all this bullshit about pain - this is nothin' - nothin'.  You guys realize that this team is at least the fourh best team in all of baseball and more likely the second best.  And second best to a damn fine team, one that has pitching, both starting and relieving, a tremendous one-two punch in the order surrounded by some awfully good hitters - I really love their third baseman.

So let this one sink in.  Sure it stings but soon - very soon - we'll be talkin' pennant again - maybe even World Series Championship.  That's something I could only dream about for almost 35 years.  

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Oct 22, 2007 7:40 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: UNintentional over-reactions Thread
I actually think that two of our best teams didn't make the playoffs.
In 2000, Manny was hurt and Thome was slumping.  The Justice trade had to have cost us at least the game or two that kept us out.  At the end of the season, Colon/Finley/Burba were on fire, Ramirez got healthy and Thome started hitting.  If we'd gotten in, we would have made some noise.
In 2005, we similarly had 3 hot starters a strong bullpen and the lineup was mashing.  Other teams in the playoffs wanted no part of us...

by stuart dean on Oct 22, 2007 9:49 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: [I]ntentional over-reactions Thread
I'm trading DrErikBrady to Pinstripe Alley.

The Yankees seem to love a no-show.

Boooooooo!

by Jay on Oct 22, 2007 12:53 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: [I]ntentional over-reactions Thread
Sorry, I obviously wasn't paying close enough attention to the posts.  How embarrassing to have let this slip through with no response.  I have no good excuse.  Does that make me more like CC or Fausto?
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Oct 22, 2007 11:52 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: [I]ntentional over-reactions Thread
Fire Wedge.  Every single postseason he has managed this team in, they haven't even managed to make it to the series, much less win it all.  We need someone with proven postseason experience filling out that lineup card!  We need someone who can impart his calming knowledge and wisdom to this team when the "aces" (who should obviously be traded, since they have career postseason ERAs over seven and will clearly never be successful October starters) start struggling!  Someone with aura and mystique!  Someone like. . .Joe Torre!

by VA tribe fan on Oct 22, 2007 1:20 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: [I]ntentional over-reactions Thread
Lets trade all of our young talent for over-the-hill veterans and overpay guys who have just had one great year.

A little blogosphere description of the pain that is being a Cleveland fan.

http://legendofcecilioguante.blogspot.com/2007/10/indians-routed-by-red-sox-there-is-no.html

by Duder on Oct 22, 2007 2:30 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: [I]ntentional over-reactions Thread
This one really, really hurts...and I didn't even watch the game.  When we didn't take the last game in Cleveland, I knew...just knew...it was over.  Somebody who posts here has the tagline "God hates Cleveland sports."  I'd change that after this series..."God bitterly loathes Cleveland sports."

We didn't lose in the last game of a hard fought series in which the Indians gave as good as they got all series long.  We were up by two games.  The radio jocks were talking about who'd pitch against the Rockies.  

Then we started "playing" really, really, really bad baseball.  We stunk.  We got beat in every facet of the game....badly.  

We can say all we want about next year (and we will be good next year). I'm sure the Skankees, LAA, and several other teams are thinking the same thing. But next year is a gamble for even the best teams.  
We can say all we want about what a good season it was this year...and it was.  But it ended short of even getting to the Series with an abject choke.  How many of those last three games did we keep them under double digits in runs?  How many of those last three games did we score more than 2 runs?  Three hard fought games with tight scores...you could make a strong case that it's not a choke, just baseball.  Three games of getting beat by near-double digits?  That spells "choke".  

I get sick and tired of being philosophical about it all.  I get sick and tired of having to make the case for how good we'll be and how dangerous we'll be "next year".  I get sick and tired of watching other teams benefit from Cleveland's inability to play good ball in the clutch.  (And I'm not going to get into those long, tedious, stats-geek discussions about what "clutch" means).   I get sick and tired of wondering how we'll refer to THIS collapse.  (Swerb's Blurbs recommends "The Stop", to go along with, of course, The Shot, The Drive, The Fumble, etc., etc.)  I get sick and tired of watching other teams' athletes come up big in big games while ours fall apart.  

So another team gets to celebrate while we talk about next year.  Another team's fans get to go to work all smiles and thinking about what a great bunch of players they have while we get to wonder why our big guns didn't play big...again.  Another team gets to hear the media talk about its great run while we have to figure out a name for this latest collapse.  

None of this is to disparage for a moment what the team did get done this year.  In fact, what the team got done makes it all the more painful.  We weren't some team that snuck into the playoffs with a good late run to get the wild card.  We had the best record in baseball..with a tough schedule.  As I kept telling folks, we were better constructed for a WS run that we were in the '90's with two big arms, a very good bullpen, and enough hitting to get it all done.  We were there.  We had everything we needed.  I've read some posts that say things like, "Well, we were lucky just to be here."  Hell, we SHOULD have been there.  We should have been there in 2005.  (We should have at least contended last year.) We had all the pieces at the start and we showed it during the season.

So now it ends, not in a tooth and nail battle to the finish but in a collapse.  I'm sick and tired of thinking, "What the hell does this town have to do to get a championship?"

Chagrin Rick

by Chagrin Rick on Oct 22, 2007 7:25 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: [I]ntentional over-reactions Thread
Agreed.

The Indians did not play like it was "just another game," so maybe they should have embraced it being the biggest games (the 3 potential clinchers) of most of their careers.  It's a huge game, but you win huge games the same way you win game 1 in April.

by rog on Oct 22, 2007 1:18 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: [I]ntentional over-reactions Thread
Depressing, but all true.
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Oct 22, 2007 3:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: [I]ntentional over-reactions Thread
  1. [see my earlier post]

  2. Steamroll a bunch of Danielle Peck CDs.

  3. Drive that steamroller to the MLB offices, and make sure they get rid of the same-city off-day in future playoff series.

  4. Lasik for T.Pronk?

by JulioBernazard on Oct 22, 2007 8:10 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: [I]ntentional over-reactions Thread
Guess it's as good a time as any to go out and get that Manny Ramirez jersey that I always wanted when I was in high school (mid-90s)...

by APV on Oct 22, 2007 8:21 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: [I]ntentional over-reactions Thread
I'll bet an report comes out Wednesday morning that Rockies slugger Matt Holiday has unpaid parking tickets, and will promptly be vilified by the media.

by mikebrowns26 on Oct 22, 2007 8:50 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: [I]ntentional over-reactions Thread
I want nothing to change. This is a team I want for the next three seasons. Alter nothing.

by Voltaire on Oct 22, 2007 11:51 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: [I]ntentional over-reactions Thread
It's the best of all possible worlds mon amie!
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Oct 22, 2007 4:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: [I]ntentional over-reactions Thread
Tend your garden.
"Nice shooting. Don't get cocky." - Han Solo

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Oct 22, 2007 4:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

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