I found our new third baseman
by ASP on Oct 28, 2007 10:28 PM EDT
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Printwhole article linked below, here's just a few sentences from it. And yes, I'm obviously joking about the diary title.
Alex Rodriguez notified the Yankees on Sunday that he's opting out of his record $252 million contract, SI.com has learned.
The Yankees were preparing an extension to his current contract for either five or six years, believed to be for close to $30 million annually. However, team officials said Boras has politely declined to meet with them in recent days, and they never presented the offer.
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Re: I found our new third baseman
Re: I found our new third baseman
I still wouldn't be shocked to see him in New York, Cashman's ultimatum notwithstanding, and I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see him making more money than he is now.
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Are text messages legally binding now?
So, what's the market - Dodgers, Cubs, Red Sox, Angels? Who else can afford him?
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He made $500,000 more than A-Rod in '04, according to Cot's.
I don't understand the implication that the highest-paid player on the Yankees is holding the team back from winning the World Series. It's not like his contract prohibits them from spending money on other players, as it might in Tampa or somewhere.
Re: I found our new third baseman
by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on Oct 28, 2007 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
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I think what acquiring A-Rod could do is set the Sox up to trade Ramirez. The warm fuzzy feeling that Manny now engenders will fade away by spring training. 'Manny being Manny' will go from being a compliment to an epithet in no time. He's entering the final two years of his contract and he's probably on pace to request five or six more trades when all is said and done.
Where would Manny go?
- Dodgers (have prospects, need power)
- Angels (have prospect, need power)
- Yankees (if the BoSox refuse to pick up any of Manny's salary, they might become an option)
The real question is whether A-Rod can go back to playing SS. If he can, I think he makes good sense for the Sox. Even if he can't, having A-Rod at 3rd isn't all bad.
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Re: I found our new third baseman
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http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=3084735
by Denver Tribe Fan on Oct 29, 2007 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Re: I found our new third baseman
The Mariners
(if they can find a taker for Beltre)
by homelytourist on Oct 29, 2007 1:35 AM EDT reply actions
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Re: I found our new third baseman
Of course not, he's a d_ck...
Re: I found our new third baseman
I hope he goes to the Dodgers and ends up with 900 home runs.
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Re: I found our new third baseman
Re: I found our new third baseman
by E5 on Oct 29, 2007 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions
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So, he and Boras jumped the gun by half a game (or more if the Rockies had come back for a game or two).
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Re: I found our new third baseman
Re: I found our new third baseman
Somebody is going to give him $200 million plus. That is a dead lock at this point.
He just walked away from at least $231 million (his current contract plus the extension they wanted to offer him). He is probably going to get that much and maybe more. Either way, he's going to go to a better situation on his own terms.
If he gets more, he made a smart decision. If he gets less, some folks will write that finally stopped taking the highest offer.
My prediction: Mets.
Re: I found our new third baseman
As for the "unofficial talk" matter, wasn't there a rumor that the Cubs would give him like an investment in ownership?
Re: I found our new third baseman
by homelytourist on Oct 29, 2007 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
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It's certainly not illegal.
Honestly, no one admires the glib know-it-all.
by homelytourist on Oct 30, 2007 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions
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I was informed that it is illegal for a player to own a share in any team. If I was misinformed, so be it.
Re: I found our new third baseman
Teams can defer compensation. All of it, I believe, if that's what's worked out in the player contract. And there's no salary cap in baseball (yet?), so you don't run into any issues there. I made a quick pass through the CBA and I didn't see how this might violate anything. Maybe there's an item in the big rule book addressing the subject, which I can't retrieve at the moment, but I can take a stab at what it might say.
I think the Cubs or anyone else could promise shares of the club if granting a special class of share is still percieved by the union as a conflict of interest. There's nothing unusual about owning a part of the organization one works for. Millions of workers participate in this kind of design in one way or another. I can see the MLBPA encouraging it under the right circumstances.
I believe this would be a big no-no in the NBA and NFL, which have salary caps and define their player contracts diffently. Massively defered compensation screws up competitive balance measures.
I'm not real good with explaning technical stuff. Emil, you're a corporate lawyer, right?
by homelytourist on Oct 30, 2007 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Re: I found our new third baseman
agreements of any kind between the Player and the Club. No other
understandings or agreements, whether made before or after the
signing of the Uniform Player's Contract or its assignment, shall be
valid, recognizable or of any effect whatsoever..."
and i don't know this stuff all that well, but i actually don't read section 4(a) of the new uniform player's contract (new mlb cba, appendix A) as in fact prohibiting a player's financial interest in a club. i think it merely requires him to disclose it as a special covenant, and requires that it not somehow violate the salary reduction covenant (and there's no reason to expect it would).
and major league rule 20 only prevents conflicts of interest; that is, playing for one club and owning part of another. owning part of the club you play for doesn't constitute a conflict of interest. and anyway, we should remember rule 20 appears to be very informally enforced. it's not like there's court involvement.
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Re: I found our new third baseman
by homelytourist on Oct 30, 2007 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions
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by supermarioelia on Oct 30, 2007 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
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by Gradyforpresident on Oct 30, 2007 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
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And not to be a jerk, but who cares if there's a precedent in some other sport?
Re: I found our new third baseman
by supermarioelia on Oct 30, 2007 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions
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by homelytourist on Oct 30, 2007 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
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My money's on the Angels - a team that REALLY needs another bat, nobody of any consequence at third base, endorsement opportunities, away from the East Coast, an AL team (more likely to give A-Rod that 10-year deal), an owner who wants his team to unseat the Dodgers as the king of LA. Everything fits.
Re: I found our new third baseman
Re: I found our new third baseman
Re: I found our new third baseman
For all intents and purposes, Alex Rodriguez is going to sign as a third baseman. That doesn't mean he doesn't become a first basemen as he gets older, or a corner outfielder, or a DH. Unlike Alfonso Soriano, Alex Rodriguez is a competent defender, so there's no penalty that comes with playing him at third base.
So if the Mets sign Alex Rodriguez, they must move David Wright somewhere else, and that somewhere else would probably be first base. Which means they have to dump Carlos Delgado on somebody. It could happen, but a lot of other things would need to fall into place. With the Angels, the only thing they have to do is to sign a check for $300M. The easier move, the move which involves less moving parts, is usually the one that comes to fruition.
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Ripken played shortstop through age 35, Vizquel is still playing it at 40. A-Rod is in their league or better as an all-around physical specimen. You will find, in fact, that Gold Glove shortstops generally don't stop playing the position regularly because of their range, but rather because their bat stops being good enough to stay in the lineup.
I don't see any reason why A-Rod would have a historically precipitous decline in defensive skills, merely because he also hits home runs. I doubt his range is any worse than Peralta or Jeter's, and they seem to be keeping their jobs.
Had he not joined the Yankees, is there any doubt that he'd still be a shortstop?
I don't doubt that he could make the transition to second -- again, why can dozens of other guys do it but not him? -- but in the Mets specific case, the likeliest scenario would be moving Reyes back to second, while A-Rod takes over at shortstop.
Re: I found our new third baseman
Had he not joined the Yankees, is there any doubt that he'd still be a shortstop?
Sure, but he joined the Yankees. After a year or so at third base, he put on some weight because he didn't need the range and flexibility any more. If he has to drop some bulk to move back, you might not be getting the home run monster you paid for. And if you're paying $30M a year for an offensive beast, it's a good idea to maximize the potential for him to be one.
Second base is really a non-starter.
Hey, the Mets have the money, so that shouldn't be an issue. But there's way too much that has to happen for them to be the most likely to sign him.
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All I came to say was that I don't buy the argument that his move to third base allowed him to put on weight and become an even more powerful hitter. His years in Texas were incredibly prolific in terms of power numbers. I don't think he's ostensibly a better hitter or a more powerful hitter since moving to third.
Just eyeballing it, it looks like only one of his ISO's in NY have matched his ISO's in Texas, 2 of his three highest homerun totals came in Texas, his OPS+ in Texas didn't ever get as high (never cracked 170) but was more consistently high, and he hit more doubles in Texas (which might actually be an argument the other way).
I know I'm sort of cherry picking but I honestly think A-Rod the offensive player at SS in Texas and the one at 3rd in the Bronx has been a wash, with NY getting slightly higher peak production and Texas getting higher consistent production.
BTW, A-Rod's age 20 season is what I want from Grady next year. 54 doubles, 36 homeruns, .414 OBP.
Re: I found our new third baseman
But does it make sense for him to play second? He probably has the athletic ability to do so, but it would take a year or two for him to get acclimated to the position, and that's assuming he can separate his defense from his offense.
Let me put it this way:
- Alex Rodriguez is a better fielder than David Wright.
- Alex Rodriguez is a better hitter than David Wright.
- You make sure your best player maximizes his potential.
Granted, you could have substituted Jeter for Wright, but what's done is done. The Mets would be spending a lot of money to acquire a player that's expected to give them MVP-caliber offensive production.
Re: I found our new third baseman
I was just saying that I think, within a vacuum, I don't think it would be hard for him to do.
I don't know if the Mets would move Reyes for him; I'm guessing not. We're sort of trickling back down to the problem of defensive evaluation. It would make sense to play the better of the two defenders at SS; I'm sure conventional wisdom is going to say Reyes is right now but I'm not really sure that's true. Rodriguez is a preternatural athlete and it wouldn't surprise me if he was the better SS.
That said, I don't know how to figure out who the better SS is.
Just for fun, where would he play SS? Off the top of my head, I think he'd definitely play it for the Cubs, could conceivably play it for the Tigers (Renteria's defense is supposedly not great, right? So maybe Edgar goes to 3rd if ARod still looks good at SS?), and there's a remote chance he'd play it for the Red Sox, if Lowell re-ups. And I guess he might play it for the Dodgers.
There's no real chance he plays it for the Yankees or the Angels. Very small chance he plays it for the Mets.
And I still don't think there's a solid argument that moving him from 3rd to SS makes him change his body and thus his offensive game.
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I take Ryan's point about, essentially, taking care of your best player. But you could make the case that A-Rod was not only more comfortable at SS than 3B but also a better defender at SS than at 3B.
The part that's clear-cut is that moving Reyes from SS to 2B is far less of a positional value hit than moving Wright from 3B to 1B. Not even close. And that's without even considering the need to move Delgado, which is unlikely to yield equal value particularly in the short term.
For the Mets, the best situation would be A-Rod at second base, and I have little doubt that he would be a solid defender there this season and above average for the next 3-4. Barring that, the next best thing is to put A-Rod back at shortstop, and I have little doubt that they would consider that a solid option.
Re: I found our new third baseman
moby dick alert!
Re: I found our new third baseman
CF Sizemore
2B Cabrera
3B Wright
C Martinez
DH Hafner
1B Garko
SS Peralta
LF Dellucci/Blake
RF Gutierrez
That lineup should score some runs.
Re: I found our new third baseman
That'd be excellent.
by homelytourist on Oct 30, 2007 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
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Carmona
Westbrook
Byrd
Laffey/Sowers/Lee/Miller for the rest
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Then after four or five seasons, he could slide over to first base for four or five years.
When it's all said and done, he'd have put up Hall of Fame type numbers at FOUR different different positions. That would make him very unique (Pete Rose not withstanding) in the pantheons of history.
Re: I found our new third baseman
by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on Oct 29, 2007 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
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by Bogalusa Bomber on Oct 30, 2007 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
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by Bogalusa Bomber on Oct 30, 2007 12:26 AM EDT up reply actions
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by Bogalusa Bomber on Oct 30, 2007 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions
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The ChiSox spent $108 million last year and probably can't go much higher than that -- and yet they went and locked up a bunch of middling free-agents-to-be to significant deals. Dye, Pierzynski, Contreras, Vazquez, Konerko, Thome ... championship? In their primes, maybe. In their mid-to-late 30's, no.
They finished 4th, and there wasn't much reason to pick them higher than 3rd, and there won't be this year, either. So you have an aging core, no real young, impact talent and no major prospects on the way, and your payroll is already maxed out.
Is that the team you join if you want to contend seriously, in multiple years, for a championship?
Re: I found our new third baseman
by supermarioelia on Oct 30, 2007 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
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Oh wait, I'm thinking of someone with an IQ higher than ambient air temperature.
by VA tribe fan on Oct 30, 2007 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
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by Bogalusa Bomber on Oct 31, 2007 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
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by Bogalusa Bomber on Nov 4, 2007 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions
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I mean, in what universe does Scott Boras advise A-Rod that this is the organization that can help get him a ring? Under McCourt, they now have two postseason berths and two fourth-place finishes to go with three GM's and three managers. It's a model of stupidity over there.
I've said it before, for a few players, all they need is $1 million, and then other things become more important than money. For some, it's $10 million. But for almost everybody, it's $100 million. A-Rod has made about $192 million already (in salary alone), and he now will get multiple offers over $200 million.
So he's going to be looking at a short menu of options, every one of which involves him being worth over $400 million. And I believe at that moment, even his worst instincts of ego and greed would drive him toward the best organization making an offer. His sense of accomplishment, of his place in history.
Ran the numbers on the 95-01 Indians once, came to the conclusion that it was only 50/50 that they would have won the whole thing one time in six tries. The crapshoot nature of the postseason dictates that if a ring is the main thing he wants, he needs to be on a team that will make the postseason almost every year. Even without the PED issues, he doesn't want to be Barry Bonds, chasing down the HR record with no ring in sight -- and almost no opportunities.
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I think you've underestimated the money...so unlike you! I agree it's not about the money in absolute terms at his level...you're right, he's already rich and now it's just padding...but it IS about his standing relative to his peers, and he's proven there that he wants to be paid to his perceived status among his baseball-playing peers. Just like a guy on Wall Street, he's not thinking how absolutely well-off he is versus 99.99% of Americans...he's green with envy looking .01% above him. But that's a common human trait. How many of us say blessings every day that we have food on our plate and are not in Darfur. No, we look at the guy in the next cubicle and compare his salary to ours, and think dark thoughts.
The second best offer in a Boras negotiation is usually significantly lower. He gets almost any team that wants his client to step-out, over and above the call of duty. It's almost never a case of a marginally higher offer, in which case other issues get to be all-things-being equal tie-breakers. He forces the issue by getting the team to so overpay that his client can't get to them. That A-Rod could avoid his worst instincts of ego and pride at this moment would be out of character for both Boras and A-Rod. Call me skeptical, I just don't think he can. He'll find other ways to rationalize his place in history, one being that he's the highest paid.
by Bogalusa Bomber on Nov 4, 2007 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
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by Gradyforpresident on Oct 29, 2007 12:48 PM EDT reply actions
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