ALDS Roundup
A full recap is coming later today, but first a rundown of the media reaction to last night's series clincher:
Cleveland
Wedge never wavers, wins. Terry Pluto, PD.
Eric Wedge's managerial philosophy of stability (also known as complacency depending on the outcome) made the decision to pitch Paul Byrd in Game 4 a relatively easy one:
In baseball, the unknown is something to be explored only in dire circumstances. The Indians had a 2-1 advantage, and while there was no guarantee that a fully-rested CC Sabathia pitches the Indians to victory in Game 5, a fully-rested Paul Byrd gave the Indians the best chance to win Game 4. Sabathia might have matched Byrd's 5+ innings on short rest, but the history of pitchers on short rest isn't pretty:
Indians reach ALCS with Game 4 victory over New York. Paul Hoynes, PD.
And what of Paul Byrd? How did he feel about the starter controversy?
"No. 1, they asked me if C.C. Sabathia should start Game 4 instead of me," Byrd said. "No. 2, they asked me if C.C. did start instead of me, how would I feel. That was it. I walked out of there feeling like a loser. I think I'm a pretty heavy underdog."
Perhaps the media controversy was motivation for Byrd, who was aggresive against a lineup that hammered him the last time he faced them. Or maybe it was the chants from the New York faithful while warming up:
"I told them all to calm down," the right-hander said. "What an amazing place to play."
New York
Season Over: Yankees Out, and Torre... Tyler Kepner, New York Times.
The major story over the last two games of the series was George Steinbrenner's ultimatum to Torre: either beat the Indians, or you're out. While George has always been one to change his mind, Joe Torre was certainly taking the threat seriously:
"This ball club, they have a great future," Torre said, adding later: "This has been a great 12 years. Whatever the hell happens from here on out, I'll look back on these 12 years with great, great pleasure."
Even with Torre's success with the Yankees, I couldn't imagine a more difficult managerial job. In most other organizations, Torre's job would be as safe as the gold in Fort Knox. If George follows through with his threat, and Torre wants to keep managing, there will be a job for him.
It's not just Torre that might not be back with Yankees. Jorge Posada and Mariano Rivera are both free agents, and Alex Rodriguez can opt out of his contract. Given the support that Torre has from his players, a new manager might make it easier to leave the Big Apple:
Of his contract status, Rivera said: "They had an opportunity and they did nothing with me, so we'll see what happens. This is a business, and I'm going to treat it like a business."
Derek's Flat Fall. Mike Puma, New York Post.
In an amusing twist, the Yankee captain was the one being called out in wake of the Yankees' defeat:
The Yankees captain had two singles in last night's 6-4 loss to the Indians in Game 4 of the ALDS, but finished the series 3-for-17 (.176) with no homers and one RBI.
Jeter grounded into three double plays in the series, including a key twin killing in the sixth inning.
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Re: ALDS Roundup
Re: ALDS Roundup
https://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/2007/10/09/2007-10-09_indians_garko_blasts_yanke e_fans.html
Awwww...
(sobs)
by ManchildinBeantown on Oct 9, 2007 9:19 AM EDT reply actions
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For all the ragging on experience we do here, it does seem like playing lots of close games against good pitchers had some relevance to the Indians' success. Those were some darn good ABs.
by fleerdon on Oct 9, 2007 9:30 AM EDT reply actions
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Of course, we drew confidence back then by just crushing other teams into the ground completely.
My confidence is simple: There isn't anybody better than Carmona, and thank God we don't have to face him.
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by Turkmenbashi on Oct 9, 2007 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
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During the regular season, the Yankees were just another team.
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by fleerdon on Oct 9, 2007 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
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Maybe we hire Torre as a (vastly overpaid) bench coach and then we get Rivera at a discount?
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Most of them were there for the money and will follow the money.
It sure will be interesting to see what happens when Posada and Rivera hit the market for open bidding. It's hard to imagine them as anything but Yankees, but of course, that's what we always say.
by Jay on Oct 9, 2007 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions
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by jakesinger777 on Oct 9, 2007 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
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by fleerdon on Oct 9, 2007 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
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by fleerdon on Oct 9, 2007 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
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In fact, that's probably the only thing I enjoyed about TBS over the past 5 days.
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I hope Joe Torre lands at another AL team and gets to stick it to his old team 7 times a year.
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by fleerdon on Oct 9, 2007 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
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Kudos also go to lady luck for an amazingly healthy season. Did any of our starters go on the DH this year? Best of all, they are all healthy now for the playoffs.
My favorite memory of this series was the bugs in Cleveland, and how much they bothered Jeter. I felt a bit sorry for Chamberlin, but Jeter acted as if every bug were a personal insult.
Anyone else notice the difference between the Yankees and the Indians? The Yankees rely on personal heroics, hence the three solo homers after they were down 6-1. Indian batters, on the other hand, concentrate on getting on base and trust the batters following them to do the same, and eventually runs get scored.
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Sabathia
Carmona
Westbrook
Byrd
Laffey
Sowers
Lee
Stanford
Millwood
Jason Davis (He started a couple times, right?)
Slocum
Jason Johnson
Elarton
Am I missing anyone? That's a tiny tiny list.
by jakesinger777 on Oct 9, 2007 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
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I'm still amazed that, in 2005, we only had 4 starts that were not made by either Sabathia, Westbrook, Millwood, Lee or Elarton (all were made by Davis).
by jakesinger777 on Oct 9, 2007 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions
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2007 - 8
2006 - 9
2005 - 6
2004 - 12
2003 - 12
2002 - 16
2001 - 10
2000 - 13
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by Jay on Oct 9, 2007 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
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I just would like people to make some judgements that are not results-oriented.
Of course, I have to concede that we'll never know the effect of Wedge's stubborn decisions (sticking with Trot after Clemens came out; going with JoBo "because he's the closer"). The players have said they appreciate it -- Byrd said so in his postgame interview last night.
So I guess I have to hope that the risk of Wedge's decision to hand the ball to one of our worst pitchers -- while removing the single best bullpen option -- is outweighed by some hard-to-quantify morale and team spirit.
Either way, let's build massive leads on the Sox so it won't matter. This is the most likeable group of guys I've ever seen in any sport, and it just feels like it's going to happen.
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Martinez (.421)
Hafner (.429)
Lofton (.444)
Garko (.500)
Sizemore (.524)
Peralta (.579)!!!
Small sample size to be sure, but that's why we kept scoring all those runs with two outs. We always had guys on.
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by Jay on Oct 9, 2007 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Jake v. Cobra
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Just throwing it out there.
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by Joe on Oct 9, 2007 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions
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Westbrook had a much better second half.
Performed better against above .500 teams.
Keeps the ball down.
Better chance of inducing DP's.
etc etc
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And I also take no particular pleasure in being "right" about Byrd. Could've been a trainwreck just as easily, and we'll never know what C.C. does on short rest.
As fans, just like Wedge does, we make our best calls and go with it. Nothing much gets proven by one game, ever.
by Jay on Oct 9, 2007 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
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Lebron James.
It must be difficult to suffer through such an agonizing defeat while living in the den of the enemy with so much time on his hands.
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I'm all for organizing a LGT trip to the "Q" to sit in the stands during a Cavs game and wear Indians tee-shirts and Pistons hats - maybe we can get Bob Feller to sit with us.
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34 in Cleveland
18 in New York
7 overall
sorry if this was already mentioned.
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A lot of people saying they must sign Santana and stuff like "we should move Posada to first and promote a catcher" but most of them have zero idea what their minor league system looks like.
Ha ha. Suck it, New York.
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Oct 12 Beckett
Oct 13 Schilling
Oct 15 Dice - K
Oct 16 Wakefield / Lester
Oct 18 Beckett (5 days off)
Oct 20 Dice - K (4 days off)
Oct 21 Schilling (7 days off)
TV scheduling is the only reason I see to push Oct 18th date, since no travel involved. Then you get your primetime SAT / SUN for the last two games if necessary.
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by paul sorrento to cooperstown on Oct 10, 2007 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
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I've got to comment on this . . .
There is nothing in professional sports that I detest more than the type of (for lack of a better word) ungentlemenliness this episode reveals.
To publicly threaten a devoted employee (and a very successful one at that) with the loss of his livelihood is so rank and callous and . . .
I simply have no more words for this type of conduct in any realm of professional or personal relations.
How professional and upright is the Cleveland Indians' organization in comparison! The realization of this is certainly one of the greatest pleasures of the Tribe's successful 2007 season.
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The TBS commentators seemed to think the ultimatum fired up his team, but who knows what kind of added pressure it put on them last night once they were down 6-1?
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If the Tribe can't win it, I'd love Torre to take over the Royals and blow the Yankees outta the water someday. Now that would be perfect!
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What I'm talking about here has nothing to do with salary levels. It's about being a mensch, being decent and respectful of everyone--even if you sign his check.
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Steinbrenner is a total jackass with no class.
That is no way to treat any person.
by Jay on Oct 9, 2007 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
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by Joe on Oct 9, 2007 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
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Has any manager left the Yankees without public embarassment? I can't think of any off hand.
With each one of these public spectacles Steinbrenner further cements his reputation as the biggest asshole in all of sports. Torre's a great HoF manager - Steinbrenner's merely a HoF asshole.
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I agree, mauie. Appropriately, then, I would like to propose they put up a plaque honoring Mr. Steinbrenner as such . . . in the Cooperstown men's room, third stall on the left. Not only would it give credit where credit is due but it also would make a handy place to stick our used gum when we come to visit.
All told, I'm grateful to Dolan and Shapiro and Antonetti (and the players, too) for their professional manner throughout the season (How's the knee, Milton?). There is no way I could follow the Tribe if Yankee shenanigans were the norm in Cleveland.
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by Joe on Oct 9, 2007 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
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- Steinbrenner is cooking the books if he says the Yankees lost money. Ever.
- If indeed, he is not cooking the books, then he is either more shrewd or luckier than Art Modell, who lost money through mismanagement, had a sold out stadium of 72,000 fans every week, and somehow still never won the big one.
by woodsmeister on Oct 10, 2007 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
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http://www.baseballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=588
Just thought this was pretty cool.
by ManchildinBeantown on Oct 9, 2007 2:19 PM EDT reply actions
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Jay, regarding the Esquire pieces: I assume they continue throughout the postseason. They've been so much fun to read (I particularly enjoyed Scott's line this morning: "And that's all the gloating I intend to do... In other words, fuck the motherfucking Yankees." That is clean-off-the-monitor funny.
But we need more Jay on that blog! You mentioned that it's not easy, but know that it's getting read. My older brother and father are big fans already; my bro says that you write "like Bill Simmons would write if he ever knew what he was talking about."
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I mostly lurk now, but truly enjoy your summations Ryan.
At LGT even the trolls are better than most.
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by Jay on Oct 9, 2007 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions
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I think my entries have been running almost as long as Scott's and sometimes longer, but the last couple of days, his have been getting sent in first, so they get posted first. Different sleep and work schedules. If you check back later in the day, my stuff gets inserted then.
We're going to try to do it all month, if we can survive it! I'm assuming (and praying) that each round has to get easier, with half as many games to cover.
by Jay on Oct 9, 2007 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
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http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2007/10/09/jeters-never-prosper/
Joe is a Cleveland guy - check out some of his other work. Love reading him. If the PD would get him back with Pluto, we would be in newspaper heaven.
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Sizemore rounding third
Here's Damon's throw to the plate
Bounce bounce bounce bounce bounce
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The Indians can't pay a 36-year old catcher with a .294 OBP $13 million. And you know what's awesome? Our front office is smart enough not to do that even if we did have the money!
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Tigers bring back Pudge. White Sox bring back Dye and Pierzynski. Can the Twins jump into the fray and bring back Punto and Rondell White?
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But he's an all-star!
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Is he worth the $10 million? Depends on their options. But it's not easy to get any healthy player on a one-year contract. I wouldn't be surprised if he had bounce-back year at the plate, either.
I'm not saying this move helps them, but it's not as stupid as it might first appear.
Clutch
A-Rod
Damon .278/.316/.611
Jeter .176/.176/.176
Abreu .267/.353/.533
A-Rod .267/.353/.467
Posada .133/.235/.200
Matsui .182/.438/.182
Cano .333/.375/.800
Cabrera .188/.188/.375
Mient. .000/.143/.000
While the Indians had 6 players with OBPs over .400, the Yankees had just one (Matsui), primarily because he had 5 BBs. Jeter, Posada, Cabrera, and Mientkiewicz were terrible. The most striking feature to me is that no one really hit Indians pitching well; Abreu and Damon did alright, but didn't have a big series by any stretch. Alleged "choker" A-Rod outhit most everyone else in the lineup, save Cano.
This was a team that not only led MLB in runs scored, but was 76 runs ahead of the next closest team (Philly). Team offensive stats for the regular season were .290/.366/.463. Don't wait up for the credit the Indians pitching staff deserves.
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Ms. Schreiber,
I wanted to thank ESPN for all of the great coverage of how the Cleveland Indians were able to dispatch of the New York Yankees in the ALDS ... oh wait, nevermind. There really isn't any. It's all woe-be-the-Yankees. Lovely wall-to-wall Joe Torre love fest.
I especially love the splash page picture of Grady Sizemore rounding- oh, I see, it's Joe Torre's lovely visage again. Gee, I wonder what the hell he's going to do? Let's all sit around and speculate about a manager charged with filling out a $200 million dollar lineup card.
I wish for once you East Coast Luddites would realize that baseball exists beyond the boundaries of the Acela route from South Station to Grand Central, and that talent cultivated from a smart-spending and dealing GM can beat a worn-down roster of fading millionaires in nearly every instance.
Yanks for the memories, assholes.
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by Joe on Oct 9, 2007 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
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I give you the wonderful Jerry Crasnick.
Do you even want to read the story after the headline and first 2 graphs? Ugh.
We were the better-equipped team.
Now, against the Red Sox, I'm not so sure.
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Do the replace Peralta at shortstop shouts continue, or is that done for at least a year? I know everyone here noticed Peralta's performance in this series, but unfortunately he will not get credit from the casual observer with Captain Clutch playing in the same series
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I like JP, but I think Astrocab may be better at SS. That forces you to move JP, which is always a challenge. I don't won't to get into that, I'd rather enjoy the moment...
by bodiaz74 on Oct 9, 2007 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
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As far as moving him to 3B. I was 100% against this mid-season (when Asdrubal came up and people started to throw it out there) .. but now I am kind of warming up to it.
Jhonny has really improved over the past few years on defense.. but he has certain moments where he gets lazy. Something that is just unacceptable for the SS position.
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by Gradyforpresident on Oct 9, 2007 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
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by Joe on Oct 9, 2007 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions
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And there's no way I can picture him diving head-long for balls at 3B...I just can't see it.
by supermarioelia on Oct 10, 2007 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions
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You've got a post burried in there, when people were freaking about using the COT in a blowout, something to the effect of:
'It doesn't matter, Carmona's going 9 tomorrow anyway.'
I had a nice hindsight chuckle.
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Mine was not as daring, but still, during the 6th inning in game four I posted regarding Borowski:
"He is going to make you puke, and we will still win."
Meh, guess that's just about every time out.
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by Gradyforpresident on Oct 10, 2007 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
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by Joe on Oct 10, 2007 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions
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and besides. we already have a 770 ops 3b.
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by Joe on Oct 10, 2007 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
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by Joe on Oct 10, 2007 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
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Before we suggest anointing Jensen Lewis or chase Mariano Rivera or anyone else, why wouldn't we use Bettancourt?
by bodiaz74 on Oct 9, 2007 3:41 PM EDT reply actions
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by supermarioelia on Oct 10, 2007 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
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by bodiaz74 on Oct 9, 2007 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions
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I give credit to Wedge for changing things up and using Perez in game 2 instead of Borowski as he did often in the regular season. Maybe it had to do with the left handed hitters up in the 10th and 11th, but still it was the correct decision. Does anyone know who was warming to pitch in the 12th if necessary? Betancourt or Borowski?
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Damn good thing Betancourt went out there in the 8th against in threw strikes, huh?
by homelytourist on Oct 9, 2007 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
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He does tinker, but from what I've seen, Wedge can move at the pace of an ocean liner when it comes to making a personnell decision.
Memories can decieve, but I seem to recall lots of screaming in this forum and others for weeks before Wedge finally started replacing Nixon with Guti full time. I think the Cabrera for Barfield switch went permanent a little faster, though we were also in the very bottom of that midsummer slump.
I also remember we also had at least a month of dreading pretty much every Cliff Lee start until that move was made as well.
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I only wish Shapiro did better with his trades. I'm afraid Barfield for Kouzmanoff will prove to be another poor decision.
by spinske on Oct 9, 2007 11:05 PM EDT reply actions
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However, I do think that Barfield for Kouzmanoff was a bad trade. Barfield is an absolutely useless baseball player. It's ok though. Shapiro gets like 9 more stupid trade passes.
by Joe on Oct 9, 2007 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions
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"The Indians, again, contrary to subsequent coverage, did win that series."
A little joking self-criticism from the world leader ... my oh my.
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Buster's response, "A little."
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I was stuck in Dallas the past few days and it turns out Texans enjoy their football a lot more than baseball.
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Check this link out...
Predictions from Page 2 of Eastcoast Sports Network (ESPN).
"2. Joe Borowski
Some key stats to consider: 65.2 innings, 94 baserunners, 8 blown saves and a 5.07 ERA. Yikes. This is going to end badly. Can't you see Borowski slumping toward the Indians' dugout as one of the Yankees is rounding the bases with his right arm raised up, the Yankees are charging out of the dugout and all the Yankee fans are going bonkers? We're headed for a Red Sox-Yankees Armageddon in 10 days. It's going to happen. Start stockpiling canned goods and beef jerky now."
Is that how it went down? Not sure... LOL Losers!!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8m6CRBsWb3U
Fwiw, I like Joe Torre. But wow.
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Gammons Gets It.
The saddest part of the Indians-Yankees series is that the story became Torre and Steinbrenner and A-Rod, not a Cleveland team that won more games than the Yankees during the season. With a payroll half the size of the Red Sox's, the Indians matched Boston in wins. They moved two kids named Asdrubal Cabrera and Franklin Gutierrez into key positions in mid-August (after which they had the best record in the league), and they took Carmona out of Buffalo and watched him develop into one of the three or four best pitchers in the league. It's a shame that the swarm of bugs became the story of Game 2, the reason Chamberlain lost. When Carmona got to the Indians' bench after pitching during The Plague, they scraped more than 50 bugs off his neck and face, but Carmona didn't get distracted.
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by Joe on Oct 10, 2007 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
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by Joe on Oct 10, 2007 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
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by Joe on Oct 10, 2007 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
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i feel like you're probably talking about the former, and joe the latter.
did your comments on pinstripe get deleted?
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by Joe on Oct 10, 2007 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
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Are you aiming to get banned?
However, Garko did make light of playing in the Carribean and being afraid of some of the giant bugs there , so maybe that's where the resolve comes from.
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by Joe on Oct 10, 2007 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Back to George
George owned that franchise and I can't recall if it was in the ABA or what.
The team went belly up and George notified the players by putting a notice on the door to the locker room. What a guy.
One of the players worked for our company and he was devastated. That's George.
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For some reason I remember them playing in something called the "Industrial League" but couldn't find any references. Any way this is where our boy George started his career as a HoF asshole.

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