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Peralta for Murton?

In the current edition of SI, Joe Sheehan of Baseball Prospectus lists five trades which he says would benefit both teams.  Here's number five:

"Indians trade SS Jhonny Peralta to the Cubs for OF Matt Murton and RHP Sean Gallagher.  Rather than move Peralta to second or third base to make room for Asdrubal Cabrera, Cleveland should trade him near the peak of his value for a much-needed corner-outfielder bat.  The Cubs made do with fan fave Ryan Theriot at short this year, but Peralta, 25, is a clear upgrade.  His below-average defense with the Tribe wouldn't be as much of a liability with the Cubs' high-strikeout, fly ball staff."

My first thought was, "Make room for Cabrera?  He's the starting second baseman!"  Rather, we'd be opening a hole in the infield, and as Jay and others have recently pointed out, it's dangerous to assume that Barfield can fill it.

Murton will be 26 all of next season.  Peralta will turn 26.  Gallgher, the wildcard of the deal, will be 22.

Career lines of note...

Jhonny Peralta

1,914 MLB ABs and this season closely mirrors his career average.

.336 OBP, .425 SLG, questionable range - though perhaps his defense is not as bad as when Jay joked that he had a paralyzed left side.

Matt Murton

If he's going to be an offensive force in the big leagues, it needs to happen soon.  He's not a young prospect anymore; he should be peaking soon.

2007 with Cubs: 235 ABs, .352 OBP, .438 SLG.  It's a slight downshift from previous MLB numbers.  

MLB career: 830 ABs, .296 AVG, .365 OBP, .455 SLG.  He's had a solid-if-unspectacular 87 walks in 830 ABs.  But I'm optimistic there's room for improvement on the OBP side.  His minor league numbers are not far off, with an OPS of .851 in 1142 ABs.

Sean Gallagher

I'd like to learn more about him.  Interesting numbers with strong strikeout rates for a young age -- he struck out more than a batter per inning in AA at the age of 20.

Total minor league stats: 452 IP, 452 K, 387 hits, 179 BB, 2.75 ERA, 1.25 WHIP.

The Cubs did call him up and he made eight appearances out of the bullpen this season.  He pitched 15 innings and got rocked, but who cares about that.

I'm curious as to whether someone like Joe would post trade ideas out of thin air, or if he has any inside knowledge.  Likely the former, eh?

And would you make this trade?

0 recs | Comment 61 comments

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Re: Peralta for Murton?
Just a horrible trade idea. No way Shapiro does this because Murton would not be an upgrade to our outfield.  Jhonny is worth more then a this so called fair trade.
My wish list. Jhonny Peralta to 3rd Cabrera to SS and go get Jason Bay. LGT resident kinesiologist

by E5 on Nov 1, 2007 8:05 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
agreed, peralta puts up similar numbers at SS. i don't really see how gal lager makes up the gap.

by Brick. on Nov 1, 2007 8:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
You don't trade young players with actual ML production on a friendly contract unless you are getting a serious return.

by Roger Dorn on Nov 1, 2007 9:02 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
I'm curious as to why Sheehan thinks this is a good trade for both sides.

by tabler84 on Nov 1, 2007 9:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
national media 101:  lesson 1:

figure out a good player on some team who doesn't matter who is probably dying to get rid of him who would be a nice fit for a major market team.  propose trading for him with a major market team for their excess baggage they don't have room for anyway on a team that deserves to have an all-star at every position.

by Brick. on Nov 1, 2007 9:18 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
Brick, meet me for a pint at the Rabble & Grouse?

by fleerdon on Nov 1, 2007 9:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
half price drinks on last word wednesdays

by Brick. on Nov 1, 2007 10:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
First round is on me...Boodles all around?

by The DiaTriber on Nov 1, 2007 10:48 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
More proof that Sheehan is the worst writer at BP. I'm surprised he didn't also suggest Shelley Duncan and Kyle Farnsworth for Miguel Cabrera.

by Kos on Nov 1, 2007 9:42 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
What a horrible trade. Is this guy a closet Cub fan?

by Toxicadam on Nov 1, 2007 10:01 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
Woah, now.  The Peralta bit is bad.  But trading for Murton is not.  I was just thinking about this myself yesterday.

No way Shapiro does this because Murton would not be an upgrade to our outfield.

E5, I would love to hear your reasoning for this.

On Murton, and why I do think he's an upgrade (for the record, I wanted him last year, too):

Yes, he's 26.  This means little to me.  It's not like he's just starting to hit in AAA as a 25-year-old.  He's only in AAA because the Cubs couldn't find room for him when they moved Soriano to left.  He mashed in AAA this year, just as he should.  But he's been putting up OPS's of .900+ (not OPS+'s of 900--that would be unreal) since he was 23 in the Cubs' system.  

On to E5's comment.  As far as defense goes, no one who played more than 5 games in left field had a higher range factor (2.47) than Murton did on his team.  A league average range factor in LF is 2.00.  If it's offense you're talking about, here are his last 3 years in the majors, in OPS+:
132 (140 ABs)
104 (455 ABs)
100 (235 ABs)

Last year, these were the OPS+'s the Indians got out of LF:
Jason Michaels- 87
Kenny Lofton- 87
David Dellucci- 76
Ben Francisco- 105 (62 ABs)

As for career major league splits (Murton is right-handed), he has an OPS+ of 121 against LHP and 88 against RHP.  So his OPS+ against his weaker side was still better than any regular Indians player had total in LF in 2007.  How again is he not an upgrade?

Another note on his power.  2007's Baseball Prospectus loves on Murton and basically points out how all of his power goes into hard-hit line drives.  Were he to loft that swing just a bit, they think his home runs would jump from 10 per season to 30.

The only reason I didn't post a lengthy "You are Mark Shapiro, pt. II" diary last night was because I couldn't find a good fit (this is probably what befell Sheehan).  They don't have too many weaknesses that our strengths could exploit.  I too saw SS as one of their holes, but ruled out a Peralta trade.  Their catching can be found wanting, but would we want to trade Shoppach?  

Anyway, don't everybody freak out.  Murton, IMO, would be a good land.  We just wouldn't want to overpay.

by nickjs21 on Nov 1, 2007 10:12 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
Perhaps they would be interested in a certain drowsy adolescent feline.

by Jackdaw on Nov 1, 2007 10:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
First thing I went to.

And yet:
Ted Lilly
Carlos Zambrano
Jason Marquis
Rich Hill
Sean Marshall

ERA+'s of 122, 118, 101, 119, and 119.  Hill is only getting better, and most are locked up for a little while.  Three of them are left-handed, and only one (Marshall) failed to pitch at least 190 innings in 2007.  I'm not sure they feel like starting pitching is a weakness.  

I hope I'm wrong.  I'd love to have Murton and I've been dying to find a taker for Lee.

by nickjs21 on Nov 1, 2007 10:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
Lee for Murton would be a great trade.  I think Lee would have a good rebound year if he were to go to the cubs as the ballpark would really help him.  
My wish list. Jhonny Peralta to 3rd Cabrera to SS and go get Jason Bay. LGT resident kinesiologist

by E5 on Nov 1, 2007 10:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
Isn't Wrigley a hitter's park?

by nickjs21 on Nov 1, 2007 10:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
Short answer, NO it is not.

Only when the wind is blowing out is it considered a hitters ball park.  I am pretty sure if you looked it up it plays pretty fair and would lean to be a pitchers park.  Slammin Sammy Sosa skewed the parks perception.

My wish list. Jhonny Peralta to 3rd Cabrera to SS and go get Jason Bay. LGT resident kinesiologist

by E5 on Nov 1, 2007 10:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
Um, maybe you should have looked it up before you said it, cause according to Baseball-reference, its a hitters park.

Historically, and currently (so Slammin' Sammy didn't skew anything this year and its still a hitters park)

by hans on Nov 1, 2007 11:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
Junk stats.
My wish list. Jhonny Peralta to 3rd Cabrera to SS and go get Jason Bay. LGT resident kinesiologist

by E5 on Nov 1, 2007 11:48 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
Please, I beg of you, tell me you are kidding.
I swear, next year is it.

by fwembt on Nov 2, 2007 12:11 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
I think E5 is on to something.  I used to watch the CUBS often because I took a lot of sick days as a youth.  A lot of people say that Wrigley is seasonally a pitchers / hitters park.  The dynamics shift at some point in the long, long baseball season.

by homelytourist on Nov 2, 2007 12:19 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
Still, it is a hitters park. As the season plays out it favors the hitters.
I swear, next year is it.

by fwembt on Nov 2, 2007 12:50 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
exactly, I mean what are they going to do? only use Cliff Lee when the wind is blowing in? Maybe we should institute a pitching platoon for our 5th spot this year, we'll use Cliff when the wind blows in and use Laffey when the wind is blowing out. There you go, problems solved.

by hans on Nov 2, 2007 1:18 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
Cliff's ERA+ with the wind: 94. Cliff's ERA+ without the wind: 59. Gavel time.

by fleerdon on Nov 2, 2007 9:44 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
thats pretty cool, where did you get the split? Also, I was joking in my post.

by hans on Nov 2, 2007 4:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
www.iwasjokingalso.com/sorryificonfusedanyone/index.html

by fleerdon on Nov 3, 2007 1:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
thats a pretty cool site. homepage material.

by hans on Nov 3, 2007 2:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
Short answer, YES it is. The park effect for this year was 1.172, good for 2nd in the major leagues. Last five years it was 10, 5, 3, 15, 2. Never once below league average, only close (15) one time. So it is actually one of more noted hitters parks in the game. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor?season=2007
I swear, next year is it.

by fwembt on Nov 1, 2007 11:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
Even if it were a moderate hitter's park, Cliff Lee is a flyball pitcher, which creates more problems.  I just don't think Hendry would feel the need to update his rotation with a Cliff Lee.  If he did, I would dance around me keyboard.  Until then, we'd need to find someone else that makes Murton-to-Indians possible in this discussion.

by nickjs21 on Nov 2, 2007 12:18 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
That's meant to say, "I would dance around my keyboard," not me.  Although I feel it brings a carefree Irish jig image with it, and that's not half bad.

by nickjs21 on Nov 2, 2007 12:24 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
I just thought you were celebrating International Talk Like a Pirate Day a few weeks late.  No big deal.
"Nice shooting. Don't get cocky." - Han Solo

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Nov 2, 2007 8:08 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
i bet even a hack like dustin pedroia could hit 30 bombs if he got to play 81 home games at wrigley.

by Brick. on Nov 2, 2007 12:18 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
I like Murton, but since the upside isn't exactly glowing, I'd be just as happy to see Ben Fransisco given a shot before Murton.

Let's take this thread up a notch.  How about Cliff Lee for Elijah  Dukes.

by homelytourist on Nov 2, 2007 12:16 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
Bold, my friend.  That .889 OPS in AAA at the age of 22 looks glorious.

However, before I really delve into his capabilities, I think it's well-established that Shapiro is a character-oriented person.  In my opinion, this isn't a trade he considers.

Take it the same way you'd look at trading for a brittle, injury-prone player.  The talent is there, but will you sink cost into someone who could miss a lot of games?  He threatened to kill the mother of his children, remember.  People not liking Schilling wouldn't bother me if I'm Mark.  People not liking Dukes ... that's legitimate.

by nickjs21 on Nov 2, 2007 12:22 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
Ooof, I forgot about the specific nature of the incident.  I thought it was less serious.

I'm all for giving troubled players second chances, but this sounds like an extreme case.

by homelytourist on Nov 2, 2007 12:45 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
The truth is, this is a business.  All options will be considered by GMs.  But even if you want to be objective about it, Elijah Dukes represents a serious risk to miss a lot of playing time by actions he may or may not do.

He texted a picture of a gun to her.  That's weird.

by nickjs21 on Nov 2, 2007 12:52 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
cut the guy some slack though.  it's not like he's as evil as dustin pedroia.

by Brick. on Nov 2, 2007 10:49 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
I like Murton and I like Gallagher, not at that price. Filling one hole by creating another one is not always a good idea.

by Joe on Nov 1, 2007 11:19 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
You don't trade productive American League Central 550-AB a year middle infielders for productive National League Central 300-AB a year corner outfielders.  

by cheech99 on Nov 1, 2007 11:49 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
So who are some young-ish (multi-year) options for left field that could be traded for?

Lastings Milledge
Matt Murton
Chris Duncan (lefty)
Jason Bay (I can't believe no one thought of him)
Matt Kemp
Reed Johnson? (31)
Elijah Dukes
Luke Scott? (lefty) (30)

I rate Milledge, Bay, and Kemp hard-to-gets with Kemp at the top of that list.  Duncan and Dukes would cost a bit.  Does Johnson have any chance of repeating his 2006?  Probably not, if we look at his career numbers.  And Luke Scott is primarily a center fielder, and a lefty, but the Astros don't seem to be crazy about him.

Oh hell, let's just trade for an Adam Jones/Felix Hernandez combo and be done with it.

by nickjs21 on Nov 2, 2007 12:49 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
How will Kemp's place in Chavez Ravine be affected by Torre's arrival?

Not to say that Torre won't play youngsters, but a part of me tends to think that Colletti (sp?) is going to load up on veterans and players that Torre feels will help him.

Will that come at the expense of guys like Kemp, Ethier, and Loney?  As a fan of a team that would love to have any of them, I hope.

by The DiaTriber on Nov 2, 2007 8:49 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
So do I.  I heard a sound bite of Colletti talking about Torre on the radio yesterday.  To paraphrase, he said in 1996 Torre was in charge of a team with some young promise (Jeter mainly) and guided them to the promised land, and he sees similarities with the youth the Dodgers have.

So that doesn't bode well, but you and I feel the same.

by nickjs21 on Nov 2, 2007 9:08 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
oooh, i want me some Loney.  I like that guy.  I presume he's more off limits than the other two.  They had him playing some OF last year, right, when Nomar was supposedly to not going to suck at 1B?

by Brick. on Nov 2, 2007 10:52 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
I would add Josh Hamilton to the list.  The reds outfield is extremely crowded, and my guess is that Hamilton will be the odd man out.

by ClarkM on Nov 2, 2007 1:04 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
damn, not a bad idea. I happen to recall that the Reds had fallen in love with a gritty outfielder by the name Norris Hopper, so much so that they would sit Hamilton in favor of Hopper despite Hamilton out OPSing Hopper by .164 points. If Shapiro really wanted to, I think he could continue raiding other teams. Shapiro probably went as a pirate for Halloween.

by hans on Nov 2, 2007 1:15 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
I think the Reds would trade Junior before Hamilton.  He is the feel-good story of the decade in Cincinnati and has become a huge fan favorite down there because of his comeback. Any team wanting Josh Hamilton will have to overpay, and a fly-ball pitcher like Cliff Lee isn't what they need in that park.  They tried that with Eric Milton, with terrible results.
"Hey, you! Get off our lawn!" New Detroit Tigers Team Motto

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Nov 2, 2007 8:13 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
I believe Junior has a right to veto any trade, because of the 10/5 rule.  He might be their preferred choice, but he may not want to go anywhere.  For 2008, they are paying Dunn 13 M, Griffey 12.5 M, and Ryan Freel is owed 7 M over the next 2 years.  Jay Bruce is coming, and they need to make room for him.

Cliff Lee is probably not going to bring back anybody who would provide an upgrade in left.  I am not sure why you thought I was suggesting we should trade Lee for him or that Cliff Lee is the only guy on our team we can trade.  Hamilton had a great year, so we are going to have to give up something to get him, and if they want too much, then tell them to forget about it.

by ClarkM on Nov 2, 2007 10:06 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
What do we have to give the Reds for Hamilton?  Our trading chips are pretty much Barfield, Marte, Francisco, Choo, Lee, Sowers, Laffey, or prospects.  They're set at second base with Phillips. They're set at third base with Encarnacion. They don't need any more outfielders, so Choo and Francisco are out.

I doubt we'd flip Laffey because he's a lefty groundballer under our control cheap for the next few years.  They wouldn't take Lee because of his extreme flyball tendencies.  Would Sowers and a prospect or two for Hamilton get the job done?  I have doubts - Sowers value has never been lower, and Shapiro has been very reluctant to give up prospects.  I'd love to have Hamilton - I think he'd thrive on this club.  But I don't think we have the pieces that the Reds need.

"Hey, you! Get off our lawn!" -- New Detroit Tigers Team Motto

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Nov 2, 2007 11:01 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
I'm somewhat keen on the idea of trading Laffey, only because I think he is are greatest trading chip this offseason, for all the reasons why we should keep him. Of course, I would be happy keeping him as well, but if we could get a guy who could approach a .900 OPS in LF, that would entice me.

I wonder how high the ceiling will be for Laffey, as he is a prodeminetly GB pitcher, I mean maybe Westbrook would be an example, he certainly isn't in Carmona's class as far as power arm goes. This being said, I really do like the guy and think he is probably the best bet to have a good season of this group: C.Lee, Laffey, Sowers, going for that 5th spot in the rotation.

by hans on Nov 2, 2007 11:18 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
Anybody know the Phillies farm system?

They seem to have a hole at 3B. Maybe we could entice them with Blake or Marte? We know Charlie loves those Cleveland guys [sarc].

by talonk on Nov 2, 2007 11:00 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
The Phillies don't have a farm system.

by ASP on Nov 2, 2007 1:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
I'm going to be nauseous till this Trade Peralta drum quits beating.

Ugh.

His mellow looks like armor, people.

by afh4 on Nov 2, 2007 3:19 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
"Mellow looks like armor" was a truly genius line.  I mean, outstanding.

by tabler84 on Nov 2, 2007 3:48 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
Professional editor hat on:

Actually, you are going to be nauseated.  The idea that we would trade Peralta is one you find nauseous.  This is one of those common grammar misusages that just grates on my nerves.

Professional editor hat off.

Nothing personal here.  Though I will say that Mellow Looks Like Armor would be a pretty cool band name, maybe for a trance or trip-hop group.

"Hey, you! Get off our lawn!" -- New Detroit Tigers Team Motto

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Nov 2, 2007 3:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Peralta for Murton?
I have no problem considering trading Peralta. I don't think anyone is advocating trading him for the sake of it, but if it would reasonably improve the team, well, why not?
Gator fans have so much in common with Yankee fans. Minus the history and championships, of course.

by gahnki on Nov 2, 2007 4:19 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No offense, but the problem with trading Peralta
is that it will leave a considerable hole at SS, especially in terms of offense, so that trade is going to have to GREATLY improve the team in my opinion for the Indians to trade Peralta, especially being under our control at reasonable cost for the next few seasons.

Hello gahnki,

I understand your point about trading Peralta - he shouldn't be untouchable, but unless the deal is a great one for us, I can't see the Indians doing it, and I don't think Murton/Gallagher qualifies.

Plus, you have to consider that while Cabrera could certainly replace Peralta defensively at SS (and likely be an upgrade defensively,) you would lose some overall offense (I think Murton at best MIGHT be comparable to Peralta offensively, but I have my doubts on Murton reaching it, especially in his first season in the AL playing regularly - hmm... doesn't that sound a bit like Michaels' 2006 season?  I think Murton does have more power than Michaels does and more potential, but I could see Murton falling short of expectations in 2008 like Michaels did in 2006, if Murton were to play everyday and to play in the AL regularly for the first time.)

Even more concerning though is the fact that Barfield would HAVE to stick at 2B if Cabrera replaces Peralta at SS; while Barfield's defense is solid enough, there are still considerable questions about whether Barfield will hit enough, and could be a potential downgrade from Cabrera offensively at 2B (I know Cabrera only had 150 reg. season ABs compared to Barfield's 420 reg. season ABs, so it's possible Cabrera will have to make some adjustments as more teams get more of a scouting report on him, but I was more impressed with his approach at the plate than I was Barfield's, SSS or not.)  

Plus, Scott Boras is Barfield's agent, and as been speculated on here before, it's quite possible Barfield could be trade bait himself in the coming seasons before he becomes a FA, so the Indians probably have already considered their future without Barfield at 2B, even though they've only had him on the roster for one season.

Therefore, that's why I think the return for Peralta would have to more than "reasonably improve" the team to trade Peralta in any deal because you have the potential to lose a lot of offense from Peralta's bat, plus you have Barfield's uncertainty, both with his bat and with his long-term future as an Indian.

Just my 2 cents.  :-)

May the Tribe be great in 2008! :-)

by indiansfan on Nov 2, 2007 11:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: No offense, but the problem with trading Peral
I'm increasingly becoming interested in how Boras will "spin" Barfield for the "max" contract he usually garners.

by hans on Nov 3, 2007 1:48 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: No offense, but the problem with trading Peral
Maybe Boras will just fire Barfield.  

by mpstable on Nov 3, 2007 11:16 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: No offense, but the problem with trading Peral
Barfield won't have any contract negotiation until 2011 at the earliest.  Boras rarely if ever agrees to an arbitration buyout deal, not even to settle a one-year salary before the hearing date.  And he almost always loses.  It's kind of hilarious.

by Jay on Nov 3, 2007 10:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

At the rate he's asking for A-Rod's extension,
Barfield might get $100 million even if he doesn't improve upon where he is right now.  :-)
May the Tribe be great in 2008! :-)

by indiansfan on Nov 3, 2007 9:06 PM EDT   0 recs

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