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Trading Partners

Amish_crossing_tiny by Buzz on

Jason Bay has been mentioned as a trade target a bunch of times here.  Is it just me, or should we be worried about trading with the Pirates with Huntington as their GM?  Not worried like "they will take advantage of us" way.  But since he will know a lot about our system and prospects, the chances of the trading partner picking off a great prospect become more likely. I know that you trade to fill your own needs, but it is nice to "win" a trade as well, right?

Really, I'd like to restrict all future trades to Seattle.

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Re: Trading Partners
We have a shortage of ......

  1. Top shelf pitching prospects/players (who can also stay healthy).

  2. Right handed power hitters.

We have a surplus of .......

  1. Big league caliber position players (Peralta and Cabrera at SS / Blake and Marte at 3B / Francisco, Choo, Michaels, Dellucci and Gutierrez in OF).

  2. #4 and #5 type starters (Laffey, Lee, Sowers, Westbrook and Byrd)

by crazymoloh on Nov 5, 2007 12:57 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Giants -
  • They have next to nothing in terms of quality position players.
  • They have two young stud pitchers (Cain and Lincecum) who are going to waste their non-arbitration years pitching for a team with zero offense.
  • They have top shelf prospects in the pipeline, but could use a little pitching depth immediately.

Dodgers -
  • They apparently have issues with their young position players and might look to unload Kemp who projects as a power hitting OF.
  • Need pitching behind Billingsley, Lowe and Penny. Wolf and Schmidt are huge injury concerns.

by crazymoloh on Nov 5, 2007 1:05 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
We should definetely make an inquiry about Lincecum. I'm not saying he's a high need player to fill one of our holes, but with a player with that much potential on the market, on a team that we match up with so well as trading partnets its something you have to look at.

by world dictator on Nov 5, 2007 5:33 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
I don't know any reason to think Lincecum will be on the market.

Teams have trouble enough facing the reality that they won't contend in the next two or three years, e.g., that the Orioles should trade not only Tejada, but Roberts and Bedard and Mora as well.  And Bay for the Pirates of course.

But a guy with six more years under control?  No way.

by Jay on Nov 5, 2007 7:24 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
I would agree, but apparently Crawford for Lincecum is the rumor du jour.... (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6905)

Take that with a 500 lbs. grain of salt.

by crazymoloh on Nov 5, 2007 7:28 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/11/odds-and-ends.html

Looks like they want a powerbat or a stud outfielder (though i assume they'd prefer the same)

by world dictator on Nov 5, 2007 9:10 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
So they want Grady Sizemore.

by hans on Nov 5, 2007 9:22 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Besides the Giants and the Dodgers, two more teams in the NL West intrigue me.  The D-Back's glut of corner OF and the Padres' endless supply of relievers could prove to be the match for the type of "Shapiroesque" trade that we've come to know.

Think Barfield-Kouzmanoff and I think that's the kind of trade the Tribe will pursue.

The Indians could deal from a strength (SP, depth in ML-ready players) to bolster a weakness (RP depth, stud LF) while not compromising the roster.

by The DiaTriber on Nov 5, 2007 9:51 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
If the Indians traded for Carlos Quentin, it would be exactly the kind of trade that would make me say, "Of course!  Why didn't I think of him!"  Much like I did for Barfield.

I'd love to dream that Quentin would be available for Lee+crap (the favorite trade scenario here), but we have a lot of young pitching to offer.

by nickjs21 on Nov 5, 2007 10:58 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
What about Laffey?

by hans on Nov 5, 2007 11:47 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Phillies need starting pitching, middle relief, lefty, righty...ok, they need any arm they can get.
They have a great infield and issues everywhere else.  (and they made the playoffs, way to go NL!)
They have a problem recognizing talent.  See Thome signing and Ryan Howard's record setting year in the Minors.
Do not trade for Pat the bat, in fact, do not trade for anyone in a Philly uniform unless it is a yet undiscovered (by Philly management) prospect.

by 94neverout on Nov 5, 2007 4:21 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Couldn't be more off-base on the Thome/Ryan thing.

Thome was signed at the end of 2002.  Howard had just completed a solid but unimpressive season (836 OPS) in Low-A -- at age 22, no less.  Had he put up those same numbers two levels higher, in Double-A, then you might have a point.  Not a great point, but at least a reasonable one.

Howard was only a fifth-round pick, not some super-pedigreed guy, and he never did anything eye-catching in the minors until 2004, still in Double-A, when Thome was already in the second year of his deal.  Don't forget that the Phillies also were looking to make a big splash moving into their new ballpark.

The Phillies have done tons of things wrong this decade, but no team would have worried about blocking Howard back in 2002.

by Jay on Nov 5, 2007 7:30 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
They've changed GM's since then right? (which would further point out the irrelevancy of the original post.)

by hans on Nov 5, 2007 9:23 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
I had written a long response to clarify my point about Howard being "blocked" in 2004 and 2005.  I was going to site a great deal of other evidence about how poorly the Phillies' vision is on prospects, even with the now exiting Gillick.  But I thought all of this was self-evident; hence, my lazy initial post.

Instead, I'm going to be lazy again and say the Phillies have nothing we want. They are not a good trade partner.

Pat Burrell's name has come up.  Please for the love of all things sacred, do not trade for Pat Burrell.  He is the most frustrating play to watch ever.  He doesn't want to leave Philly.  He strikes out way too much.

by 94neverout on Nov 6, 2007 8:33 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
So does Grady Sizemore.  Ship him out.

by nickjs21 on Nov 6, 2007 9:09 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
He hits for power, he had an OBP of .400.
I swear, next year is it.

by fwembt on Nov 6, 2007 11:06 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Philly does have a hole at 3B.  They are set at ss, 2B, and 1B, and very well I might add.

by talonk on Nov 6, 2007 11:12 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
I'd like to look into trading for Miguel Cabera. Once again this is more of an upgrade trade inquiry than a fill the need trade but I think its a good idea. Particularly because I'm not sold on Marte and  I'm starting to think that Miller is going to consistently have problems staying health.  And even if he does stay health he's looking more and more like a reliever. I'd be willing to offer a trade with Miller as the centerpiece.

by world dictator on Nov 5, 2007 5:36 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
This is pure speculation on my part, but I would assume that any deal for Miggy would probably involve Jhonny or Droob. It would allow them to move Hanley to CF while picking up a young shortstop, and it would "open up" a spot for Barfield at second base since the middle infield logjam would be solved. However, the real question is...where does Miggy fit here? Do you try to throw Garko into the deal and put Miggy at first base? Do you instead throw in FGutz and stick Miggy in the outfield?

We could obviously put together a good package for him, but I just don't see the deal as a "Shapiro move" since Miggy is expensive and only under control through 2009. You're talking about Jhonny/Droob, Garko/FGutz, Miller, and probably a fourth player (Laffey?) to get the deal done. IMO, it's too much to pay since he's not really a long-term solution (consider me pessimistic about our chances of signing him to a long-term deal).

by Kos on Nov 5, 2007 6:40 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
I don't think it'll take near that much to land M-Cab. Almost everytime people talking about trades, both here and in the media, they throw out these wild trades involving multiple starting players, 2 top 5 prospects, blue chip high A players.Thats not gonna happen. Trades usually involve a good center piece and a mixture of a few average to slightly above average players and/or high ceiling low A players.

by world dictator on Nov 5, 2007 7:12 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
I don't want Miguel Cabrera on the Indians. I'll take him, don't get me wrong. But we'll have to give up too much for a player could possibly end up weighing 500lbs. by the time we get him. Plus, this guy has an attitude, no?

by crazymoloh on Nov 5, 2007 6:48 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Cabrera has put up eqa's of .321 .333 .322 the past three seasons.  For reference, Papi has gone .338 .326 .322 over the same time span.  Miggy will be 25 in April.  I would love to have this guy on our team, whether it is in left or at 1st.

by ClarkM on Nov 5, 2007 7:09 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
If we could trade Marte, either in this trade or another of decent value, I'd love it. I'm really not liking what I'm seeing of him.

by world dictator on Nov 5, 2007 7:13 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Chances are, no one else is either. I can't understand the Indians' fascination with players who can't bring themselves to take the outside pitch to opposite field. Boone, Barfield and Marte are te best examples. Victor, Jhonny, Gutz, Casey, Drrobs and Garko (to some extent) give themselves a good chance at the plate by using the whole field. We need more guys like that.

Can we write something into Marte's contract where he gets $10,000 for every outside pitch he drills to right field? This would probably cost us a few hundred thousand dollars, but it could be worth it in the long run. How about $5,000 for every walk as well?

by crazymoloh on Nov 5, 2007 7:23 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Its worth noting that the Red Sox stuck with Pedroia when he was struggling in April. Marte didn't get a chance to make his case.

by crazymoloh on Nov 5, 2007 7:26 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
players who can't bring themselves to take the outside pitch to opposite field

Hafner '07?

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Nov 5, 2007 7:35 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Notice Hafner and Grady weren't on my list of Indians hitters who use the whole field :)

I'm wondering if pitchers have just figured out that they can keep pitching Hafner away without consequence? The one nice thing about Thome was that he could drill the ball down and away. Kept pitchers honest. Maybe Haf will figure this out.

Could also be that his first year as a married man wore him down! Hopefully next year he starts taking those pennies out of the jar.

by crazymoloh on Nov 5, 2007 7:39 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
The Indians made Willie Mays-Hayes do 10 push ups for every pop up he hit when he used to play for us in the late 80's.

by hans on Nov 5, 2007 8:42 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
I'm glad I'm not the only one who has seen Miggy's "growth" in the past year, and can't help but think of BF Colon, yet younger (plus, playing a position that requires more mobility).
You know Selig? Ombudsman.

by rolub on Nov 6, 2007 10:23 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
If the Mets sign Pay-Rod, David Wright is definitely someone I would move heaven an earth to acquire. Imagine how many new female fans the Indians will attract! Grady and David on the same team! We'd win Peoples Magazine's World Series.

by crazymoloh on Nov 5, 2007 6:50 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
I would feel much better about including C.C in a deal for Wright if the Adam Miller Show had stayed on track this year.

by crazymoloh on Nov 5, 2007 6:56 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Gotta look at the whole picture -- that Carmona & Laffey show was pretty impressive.  Despite Miller's setbacks, I think our overall starting depth is about where we thought it would be.  The bigger problems were Lee and Sowers.

by Jay on Nov 5, 2007 7:32 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Actually I thought our minor league systems was wildly successful this year.  Every year you've got 2 or 3 guys who have down years.  But to think you've got one of the top 10 pitchers in baseball - Carmona - come up from your AA club is fantastic.  Throw Perez, Laffey and Lewis in there and you've got top 90 percentile production from you minor league system.  

Miller being hurt, Sowers being down and Lee tanking would be normal.  But collectively Carmona, Perez, Laffey and Lewis's sudden rise is pretty extraordinary.

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Nov 5, 2007 7:45 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Where'd you hear that? Can you be any more specific?
Gator fans have so much in common with Yankee fans. Minus the history and championships, of course.

by gahnki on Nov 5, 2007 8:34 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Don't make stuff up.

by Kos on Nov 5, 2007 8:46 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/11/cafardos-latest.html

Not sure how reliable this guy is, but he seems certain we are looking for a power hitting left fielder.

Gator fans have so much in common with Yankee fans. Minus the history and championships, of course.

by gahnki on Nov 5, 2007 8:58 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
This isn't a secret, is it?

by nickjs21 on Nov 5, 2007 10:51 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
you know I know it will never happen, and probably shouldn't, but man Barry Bonds and his OPS would look nice in LF

by world dictator on Nov 6, 2007 3:52 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
So would his statuesque, steroid-sulpted body as it gleams in the sunlight and never moves since the man has no knees.
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Nov 6, 2007 9:07 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
God, sculpted. Stupid typos.
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Nov 6, 2007 9:07 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
If Huntington is trading Bay, he should require that Matt Morris be part of the deal.

by dgcambridge on Nov 5, 2007 9:05 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Wow.  You're dead on there...

by stuart dean on Nov 6, 2007 8:32 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Huntington is not a Marte fan.

by stuart dean on Nov 6, 2007 8:31 AM EST   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
You know, I wouldn't mind working something out with Tampa Bay to get Iwamura into an Indians uniform.  He can play third, second, and the outfield.  The Indians clearly showed an interest in him during the posting process.  With Evan Longoria on his way up, I think TB would at least entertain an offer.  Since this is a discussion of potential trading partners I think it's worth noting that the Rays usually ask for a lot, especially for pitching.  

by nickjs21 on Nov 6, 2007 9:23 AM EST   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Now this is the first logical trade suggestion I've seen in the past month on here.

Bravo!

by talonk on Nov 6, 2007 11:11 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Are you kidding me. If the Indians liked Iwamura so much why didn't they sign him when they had the chance.  I totally disagree not because Iwamura is a bad player because I do like him only that the Indians would now be trading for a guy they could have had just for the money.  Now they would have to trade some prospects and still pay the money.  Tampa Bay has always asked for the moon when people inquire about their players so I highly doubt we could just pick him up with little damage to your minor league system.
My wish list. Jhonny Peralta to 3rd Cabrera to SS and go get Jason Bay. LGT resident kinesiologist

by E5 on Nov 6, 2007 11:17 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
It's a race to answer these.  

The Indians bid, and lost, on Iwamura.  Scroll down here.

by dgcambridge on Nov 6, 2007 11:30 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Way to be confrontational.

1. I never said that the trade should or would be completed. I like the fact that somebody is looking at different alternatioves then the same recycled BS we alsways see.

I said this is first decent rationale for looking for another player I've seen. The love affair for Bay, Crawford, etc. is very tiresome.

2. We did bid for him, TB just bid more. Since it was a blind bid, we had no way of knowing how far off we were. TB needs prospects. We have prospects. It could work, but more than likely not.

Take a chill pill.

by talonk on Nov 6, 2007 11:35 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Guys you've got to learn to love E5 for what he is: passionate, irrational, waaaaaaay outta control - kinda like my first wife.  

It's the absurdity that's so unique and wonderful .

"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Nov 6, 2007 12:01 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Jay put it as the drunk guy at the end of the bar spouting life lessons, no?  

by nickjs21 on Nov 6, 2007 12:13 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
And well put that was. He kind of reminds me of Gabby Johnson from Blazing Saddles: vaguely coherent and always yelling about something.
I swear, next year is it.

by fwembt on Nov 6, 2007 12:43 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Gabby Johnson is right!  Not only was that authentic frontier gibberish....

by cheech99 on Nov 6, 2007 5:44 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
...minus the bidding fee.  
- Jake

by jakesinger777 on Nov 6, 2007 5:18 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Indians after Ibanez?

"Ibañez, who has produced 228 RBI in the past two seasons, has one year left on his Mariners deal that pays him $5.5 million in 2008.

"Everybody is interested in Raul," one Mariners executive said. "He's a productive hitter, a good clubhouse guy and has a fair contract."

The Chicago Cubs, Detroit Tigers and Cleveland Indians, among others, each put Ibañez on a short list of targeted players this offseason.

In return, those teams can offer young pitching - the Indians have mentioned right-hander Aaron Laffey."

source:

http://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/mariners/story/196634.html

Not sure of the accuracy of this, especially considering Laffey isn't a right-hander.

by wooglin on Nov 6, 2007 1:11 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
We could do a lot worse.  As long as we recognize we're probably going to get the 21 hr guy of 2007 and not the 33 hr guy of 2006.  And it would be Seattle we're dealing with, here.
"Hey, you! Get off our lawn!" -- New Detroit Tigers Team Motto

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Nov 6, 2007 1:49 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
He's only getting older.  I'll have to let this one sink in before I can judge it totally.

I'd much rather get a player like Matt Murton or Carlos Quentin, a decade younger than Ibanez.  Then again, Seattle is easy to deal with.

Just off the top of my head, no Laffey.  

by nickjs21 on Nov 6, 2007 1:58 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
I know you have to trade value to get value but doesn't Laffey seem a bit of  a steep price for one year of Ibanez

by world dictator on Nov 6, 2007 2:16 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
It would be worth it. Laffey is a number 4 starter a number 3 at best.  Laffey wouldn't be counted on as being such this year for the Indians and Ibanez would be something we need.  A power hitting left fielders and a team leader.  If this deal is on the table I would do it in a millisecond.
My wish list. Jhonny Peralta to 3rd Cabrera to SS and go get Jason Bay. LGT resident kinesiologist

by E5 on Nov 6, 2007 2:26 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Laffey is 22 years old and pitched league average (ERA+ 101) in his first exposure to the bigs after starting the year off the radar.  I'd put his ceiling pretty high right now.  He had an extremely dominant stretch before his callup.  Are you suggesting because, I don't know, Miller and Lofgren won't reach their potential in 08 we should trade them too?  I'm not so sure I like this deal, but you're helping make the "don't do it" case.

by nickjs21 on Nov 6, 2007 2:33 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Someday soon you will realize I know more then you think and I am very rarely wrong.
My wish list. Jhonny Peralta to 3rd Cabrera to SS and go get Jason Bay. LGT resident kinesiologist

by E5 on Nov 6, 2007 2:38 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Hey, perfect! I've been looking for one of these.
Someday soon you will realize I know more then you think and I am very rarely wrong.

by dgcambridge on Nov 6, 2007 2:44 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
E5--with all due respect--I promise you that day is very, very far away.

by nickjs21 on Nov 6, 2007 2:55 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
So are you the clasic poster who always makes qualification statements such as:

"If one or two guys have great seasons, we will win the divison ..."

Because those types of statements can always be construed as right or wrong.

Be a man, and make a solid pediction. That way we can actually determine whether you are always right. You remind me of ghost from the ESPN boards, another total blowhard, who even when he is wrong (and proven to be so), demands that he never said such a thing.

by talonk on Nov 6, 2007 3:21 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
God?
I swear, next year is it.

by fwembt on Nov 6, 2007 5:22 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
A kinesiologist and a seer - your mom must be very proud!
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Nov 6, 2007 5:25 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Kind of like how your predicted a big trade in July - no, guaranteed one? Then the talks hit "a snag" and it all fell apart?

Jeez. You just keep getting better.

Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Nov 6, 2007 6:11 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
The trade was Lofton and it didn't fall apart it only was delayed.
My wish list. Jhonny Peralta to 3rd Cabrera to SS and go get Jason Bay. LGT resident kinesiologist

by E5 on Nov 6, 2007 6:15 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
hahaha....loving it.

by hans on Nov 6, 2007 6:17 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
OK E5 who was the first one - here or anywhere else you can think of - to mention that the Tribe might acquire Lofton?  
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Nov 6, 2007 6:52 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
I might have been the first one to say, "hey, that's not a bad idea".

But IIRC one who first entertained the idea was this dude Chuck, who sadly gets no credit for his prescience.

by homelytourist on Nov 6, 2007 7:44 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
Yes, You did mention it first.  I give you all kinds of K-Love for that one.  I was the first person saying that it WOULD happen.  
My wish list. Jhonny Peralta to 3rd Cabrera to SS and go get Jason Bay. LGT resident kinesiologist

by E5 on Nov 6, 2007 8:20 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
http://www.letsgotribe.com/story/2007/7/8/12320/03997

You are the man, Lofton to left bats 6-8, humm you are clearly more clairvoyant then me on this one.

My wish list. Jhonny Peralta to 3rd Cabrera to SS and go get Jason Bay. LGT resident kinesiologist

by E5 on Nov 6, 2007 8:40 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Trading Partners
E5, I'm not saying you're a complete idiot.

I am saying that everyone I've ever met who said things like this was a complete idiot.

Let your ideas stand on their on merit.

by Jay on Nov 6, 2007 7:00 PM EST to parent up   0 recs