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Landing Danny Haren.

Media outlets continue to report that the A's are shopping Haren and want a similar package of players to the one demanded by the Twins for Santana.  So, we're out of it, right?

Haren is under contract for the next three years for a total of $16.25 million.  Wow.

So while we know that Boston or the Yankees will get Santana, why not try to add an excellent pitcher with a truly excellent contract?

Would you trade Adam Miller, Trevor Crowe, and Paul Byrd -- while eating half of Byrd's 2008 contract?  I'm starting on the extreme end here.

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Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Meh, don't know how I missed that this has been somewhat tackled previously.  I guess I'm just in love with his contract.

by tabler84 on Dec 2, 2007 12:03 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
When you say you're starting on the extreme end, you mean the extreme underpaying end?  I can't imagine that package gets it done.  Maybe sub Franklin for Crowe?  I don't even know if that's enough.
- Jake

by jakesinger777 on Dec 2, 2007 12:33 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Yeah. Trevor Crowe's star has fallen. I doubt very many people ask for him in a trade. Byrd? Are you freaking kidding me?

Haren will cost something similar to Santana. He's cheaper, under control longer and his performance in 2007 puts him maybe a notch or two below Santana.

by crazymoloh on Dec 2, 2007 1:12 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
I fully expect Haren to be in whatever east coast power uniform Santana doesn't end up wearing.  We need to start rooting for other teams to get good enough to win a wild card so Boston and New York don't both end up in every year.

by CU Adam on Dec 2, 2007 2:16 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
For Miller, Byrd and Crowe/Francisco/Shoppach? In a heartbeat.
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Dec 2, 2007 2:25 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Miller and Byrd? I can't see us giving up two pitchers + for one.
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Dec 2, 2007 2:29 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Why not? It's not like we're relying on Miller to be a starter for us next year.

Our rotation would be:

Sabathia
Carmona
Haren
Westbrook
Laffey

by Joe on Dec 2, 2007 2:43 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Depth, that's why.
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Dec 2, 2007 2:52 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Lee, Sowers, Scott Lewis, Lofgren.

by Joe on Dec 2, 2007 3:04 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
not to jump in, and not arguing - or segway, but can we count lee as depth unless he's actually starting?  i guess if he settles in as the long man, but with that rotation, i'm not sure you'd even need one.

by Brick. on Dec 2, 2007 3:14 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Brick -- you're dropping an easy flyball here....Segue

by Nat on Dec 3, 2007 7:43 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Ridiculous rotation > depth (at least in the short run)
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Dec 2, 2007 3:20 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
GFP, are you serious?

You wouldn't take Haren (@ 3 years $15M) for Byrd, Miller and Crowe????

I don't see Oakland liking the deal.

by crazymoloh on Dec 2, 2007 3:24 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Would I make the trade? Yeah, in a heartbeat. But I just feel like that's not the sort of package Shapiro would offer.
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Dec 2, 2007 3:50 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
To clarify: As in two pitchers in the same deal.
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Dec 2, 2007 3:52 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
I'm sure the Indians' will take a layup when its offered.

by crazymoloh on Dec 2, 2007 4:37 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Right now the Yankees are offering Phil Hughes, Melky Cabrera, and X prospect.  If Beane is looking for a similar package, do you really think that's going to get it done?  

And I think it's painfully obvious that the only reason you would trade a 27 year old SP with the world's greatest contract is because you're rebuilding.  So how does a 37-year-old under contract for less years + more money makes this deal favorable for the A's?

If I'm Beane, I'm starting at Miller, Frankie, and Lofgren.  Shapiro would laugh in my face, but that's where I start.

by nickjs21 on Dec 2, 2007 6:59 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Actually this might clear things up a bit. Here's a link to the A's SBN blog and an excellent breakdown of what Beane might be asking for in a Haren trade. Coming out and saying "he's going to ask for a Miller and Lofgren is a little absurd. You don't ask for something like that and expect to get a deal done. The purpose for Beane entering into trade talks about Haren (and Blanton as well) is that he wants to move them now as opposed to next year when the value will dip and/or the prospects graduate to the bigs (Miller pulling off a Lincecum this year will pretty much knock us out of trading him for another pitcher, it wouldn't make any sense).

Basically the guy over at the A's blog after looking at some of the past Beane deals (and other teams deals) boils it down to accepting/settling on the following:

1 AAA/Grade A-B+ (or equivalent) prospect, 2-3 Low-A/Grade A prospect, 1 AAA/Grade C+ (or equivalent) prospect.

Miller would be AAA high end prospect, Kiko Calero was the player he referred to (he of the Mark Mulder trade) in regards to an example of the Grade C+ AAA prospect, who that would be from our system I don't know, nor really care about. And probably a guy like Wergalez and one/two of our low A ball high end starting pitching prospects.

Until there is an actual deal for Santana I'll take the offers we hear with grain of salt, although a bidding war between the Sux and Skanks can certainly lead to a the winning team giving up more value than they are receiving. Can Beane pull off the type of trade you are stating (two high end starting pitchers) from a team like Bos or Ny or LAD, possibly, but its a little unlikely. Even in all the Santana talk its not that the Yanks have to give up Hughes /and Kennedy, its one or the other. Same for all of the Sux rumors (Buckholtz/Lester).

by hans on Dec 2, 2007 8:05 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Please excuse the excessive "italics". Thats a screw up. definitely a screw up.

by hans on Dec 2, 2007 8:07 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Yes, maybe that's a lot.  I guess I operate under the theory of, "If you want a cat, start out by asking for a pony."  You don't want to accidentally underbid and hear "Sold!" right away.

My overall point is that Byrd is probably a non-factor except as a throw-in, and unless we pay most of the contract.  He'd be an expensive placeholder on a rebuilder otherwise.  I think Beane would shoot for youth and years under control.

by nickjs21 on Dec 2, 2007 8:10 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
I completely agree about Byrd, he's a non-factor. I understand your point, about "asking for a pony", But, when you are rebuffed, you then ask for a dog,,,,then a cat,,,then gerbil...

Yeah definitely youth and years under control. But I think some of the other coveted pieces (besides Miller of course) would actually be A ball players with high upside).

by hans on Dec 2, 2007 8:26 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
If he gets down to asking for a dramatic chipmunk, the deal's off.  He's too valuable.

I can see Beane asking for Weglarz, absolutely.

by nickjs21 on Dec 2, 2007 8:39 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
That chipmunk was certainly dramatic.

by hans on Dec 2, 2007 9:08 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Yes, yes, and more yes!

Miller, Marte (would they move Chavez?), and Crowe. I'd do that deal in a second as well.

by hans on Dec 2, 2007 3:08 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Beane doesn't want Byrd, and I don't think he'd want any outfielder unless he could play a solid center field (like FGutz). They already have a billion young corner outfielders.

The offer starts with Miller and FGutz, and I don't think there's really any chance at a match.

by Kos on Dec 2, 2007 8:54 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
I feel like we'd have a better chance getting something done (and not getting fleeced in the process) by dealing with Baltimore instead of Oakland.  There just doesn't seem to be a match of needs with OAK whereas BAL pretty much needs anything and everything.  And after watching what happens to OAK pitchers after they leave the A's, I'm always weary of taking one on.
Apparently headed towards a solid 2nd and 3rd in the LGT Fantasy Leagues. Eh...

by mjmarble on Dec 2, 2007 9:51 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Funny you should mention that.  It seems Bedard has no intention of being an Oriole when his current contract is up.  It would seem the floodgate for trade talks will open up soon enough, although his contract isn't as drool-worthy.

by nickjs21 on Dec 3, 2007 1:01 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Let me start off by saying, there is zero chance that the Athletics take this deal, and zero chance that the Indians wouldn't.

The Indians take it because Haren is a #1 starter (though not always an ace) with a great contract attached.  Immensely valuable.  He's absolutely worth trading Miller for, and Crowe and Byrd are small potatoes by comparison.

The Athletics don't take it because what do they want with Paul Byrd anyway?  Unless they're flipping him and it's a three-way deal.  If that's what they have in mind, I don't know why we're eating any salary -- it's not like he's overpaid at $8 million -- but we'd still do it.

GFP, I don't know what's in your corn flakes today, but who gives a crap if we "feel" like it's "the sort of" package Shapiro would offer?  Agreeing with 'moloh ... they're smart enough to take the layup when it's offered, and this is a layup.

Also agreeing with Joe that depth is not an issue -- this trade leaves us fully seven starters deep to start the season, with more on the way.  How many teams have a Lee, a Sowers and a Laffey competing for the fifth spot?  Possibly none.

Anyway, since Byrd won't get it done, we probably have to throw in two other guys -- that is, one real prospect plus their old boyfriend Goleski.  Unfortunately, Beane probably won't have much interest in Barfield.  Drennen?  Weglarz?  Marte?

by Jay on Dec 2, 2007 10:37 PM EST   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
I think it would take Weglarz, which would hurt since I love him, but without a doubt worth it. Something like Miller, Weglarz, and Crowe isn't a terrible haul for Haren. Might have to replace Crowe with Hodges though.

by Joe on Dec 2, 2007 10:49 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Clearly you and I are on the same page.

If I'm Beane, I try to get another pitcher in there instead of Crowe.  Maybe this is just me, but if I'm rebuilding by trading away an ace I want more than one arm in return.

by nickjs21 on Dec 2, 2007 10:53 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
I think Beane would look for a deal similar to what he received for Mulder, which would mean at least two quality pitchers.
Patience is a virtue but Champions don't need it. LGT resident kinesiologist

by E5 on Dec 2, 2007 10:56 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Weglarz.  I love Weglarz, and I would hate to lose him, so I feel like that's a good piece to give up for a stud SP.

Don't you think Beane would like Barton as well?  He's unprotected, but he would likely go too early for Oakland.  

by nickjs21 on Dec 2, 2007 10:51 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Move to coin the stand-alone sentence "Weglarz" as an expression of simple awe.

e.g. "What a moon shot Victor just launched. Weglarz."

by fleerdon on Dec 3, 2007 1:11 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Seconded.
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Dec 3, 2007 1:13 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
All in favour?
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Dec 3, 2007 2:15 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Aye.
Officially starting up and driving the trade for Bedard bandwagon.

by mjmarble on Dec 3, 2007 2:20 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
You can't force these things, they just have to happen.

by Jay on Dec 3, 2007 3:49 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
I could've just hinted around at it and hoped it would catch on, but that might be an insult to this sophisticated audience I'm playing to.

"Scrotum" jokes honorably excepted.

by fleerdon on Dec 3, 2007 5:21 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Yeah, I was sort of acting up, but in reality just not explaining myself really well. I was trying to suggest that Shapiro would offer something different , so we should try to think about different packages that could work. But, of course, I left it way too vague for that interpretation to get through.
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Dec 3, 2007 12:01 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Jayson Stark says that Billy Beane asked for TWO of Hughes/Chamberlain/Kennedy, plus a B-prospect, for Haren. Same from the Red Sox -- B-prospect plus two of Buchholz/Lester/Ellsbury.

/enddream

by ASP on Dec 3, 2007 10:17 AM EST   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
I've gotta figure Beane will come down from that, but when looking at his contract situation you can make a case that trading for Haren might be a better idea than Johan.
Sizemore-Shapiro 2008. The Official Red Bull of Let's Go Tribe Game Threads.

by Gradyforpresident on Dec 3, 2007 12:02 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Using Haren's contract to elevate him closer to Santana's value is dead on; that seems to be the consensus on Beane's current stance.  I think it's a pretty good idea, it's not like Beane will have any shortage of suitors with that contract.  

by Pronk33 on Dec 3, 2007 2:11 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
But to teams such as NYY, BOS, NYM, LAD, etc., that doesn't matter as much as it does to the rest of the league.  Of course it's nice, but if they truly want a player, they'll pay for him.  In that respect Santana has no peer.  He simply is the best pitcher in the show right now.

I think that if the Sox end up getting Santana that the Yanks will be forced to go out and get Haren or someone similar.  I don't think the inverse is true in that the Sox are generally more confident in their staff.

Officially starting up and driving the trade for Bedard bandwagon.

by mjmarble on Dec 3, 2007 2:19 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
Not to the Yanks or Red Sox. That leverage (affordable contract) really doesn't mean much to them. They are simply in it for player talent. They'll basically pay whatever for it.

by hans on Dec 3, 2007 10:04 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Re: Landing Danny Haren.
dude, Billy Beane isn't going to tell Jayson Stark a thing. Dude probably got that info from Rowan Atkinson.

by hans on Dec 3, 2007 10:06 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

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