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RBI on LGT stats

Dean_tiny by painaxl on

As someone who's been lurking around this site for many months now, I've noticed that RBI is rarely, if ever listed in the stats for any player, prospect or whatever.

For example, in the Greatest Indians Seasons category, the line is given and if the player finished in the top 10 in RBI, it's mentioned, but the number is never listed.  This is obviously a conscious decision.  Is there any reason for this?  Is there some value of the RBI debate that I don't know about?

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Re: RBI on LGT stats
I've heard from a contingent of stat guys who are pretty anti-RBI. The RBI number fluctuates with BABIP and lineup placement. For example, Andy Marte would get a lot more RBIs in the four-hole than at the bottom of the order, but it would be more reflective of the OBP of the players in front of him than it would of any improvement in his offensive abilities.

My take is that the RBI has some uses, but as far as objective measures of run-production go, you're probably much better off with slugging percentage.

by fleerdon on Mar 22, 2007 3:33 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: RBI on LGT stats
RBI's are more a function of the OBP of the folks in front of the hitter than of the hitters prowess.  One of the better cases in point was ex indian Joe Carter in 1990 who knocked in 115 runs for the Pods while hitting .232 and slugging .391 (bleech!).  He got those RBI's because the three guys in front of him; Bip Roberts, Robbie Alomar and some guy named Gwynn had OBP's of .375, .340 and .357.  Felix Fermin could have had a big year hitting behind those thrree!

by stuart dean on Mar 22, 2007 3:34 PM EDT   0 recs

Joe Carter
Here's an article that deals specifically with Joe Carter.

by APV on Mar 22, 2007 4:21 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RBI on LGT stats
Here are two THT articles (here and here) on RBI.

by APV on Mar 22, 2007 3:42 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: RBI on LGT stats
Very interesting.  I've always thought of RBI as a batting average type stat.  Older, yes, not completely telling, but still a valuable part of what makes a hitter.

by painaxl on Mar 22, 2007 4:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RBI on LGT stats
Don't forget that batting average is also a very obsolete stat.  Look at on-base percentage instead.  OBP is far more indicative of quality than BA.

by mickeyf on Mar 22, 2007 5:22 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RBI on LGT stats
Unfortunately, RBIs are key for fantasy baseball <sarc>

Like what everyone else has said, if Hafner hits 7th in our lineup, his RBIs will drastically go down even if he hits .340.

And just imagine how many more RBIs Grady would have if he hit 3rd rather than leadoff.

While RBIs are usually a topic for MVPs, etc., it really is a function of the lineup and how many opportunities you have.

by talonk on Mar 22, 2007 3:57 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: RBI on LGT stats
The short answer is that RBIs are partly a product of a player's teammates, so it's not really indicative as to how good a hitter he is. And there's many other stats that do a better job of measuring how good a hitter is.

I like OPS+ as a "quick and dirty" comparative tool, because it measures a player's OPS versus the league he played in.

by Ryan on Mar 22, 2007 7:35 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: RBI on LGT stats
I doubt folks around here are entirely anti-RBI.  I'm not, and I don't think Ryan is.  I think it's more that we're comfortable (and feel our readers are) with several other stats that are less problematic.  You may love RBI's, and I don't hate them, but the fact is that they're deeply problematic as a way of comparing any two players.

It is largely the case that VORP has replaced RBI among many well-read fans.  VORP does not depend on batting order, opportunity, park, league, etc., and it's adjusted for position.  Both stats are based on "runs," which any fan can understand.  One guy has 30 VORP, another guy has 6 ... everyone has a gut-level idea of what 24 runs are worth.

by Jay on Mar 22, 2007 8:59 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: RBI on LGT stats
Is anyone else waiting for the days that the graphic that accompanies batters on telecasts lists OBP, OPS, OPS+, and VORP?

It will never happen, but it would be great.

by The DiaTriber on Mar 22, 2007 10:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: RBI on LGT stats
It's why I love this site. RBI's are a useless stat. It tells you nothing about a player.

by Joe. on Mar 23, 2007 1:51 PM EDT   0 recs

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