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Around SBN: Please, Someone Make Bob Sapp Stop Already

Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2

Recap
Box Score
Win Probability Added @ Fangraphs

Highest WPA:

Rafael Perez .044
Ryan Garko .040
Casey Blake .035

Lowest WPA:

Grady Sizemore -.142
David Dellucci -.121
Victor Martinez -.121

The game wasn't too interesting. The Red Sox got an early lead, Josh Beckett shut the Indians down, the Indians made a semblance of a comeback, but ultimately came up short. Time for some topical opinions:

(1) Trot Nixon should be platooned. And by platooned, I mean benched when the Indians face a left-handed starter. And benched when facing a left-handed reliever in the late innings. I don't care if this is Nixon's only trip to Fenway Park, he needed to be pinch-hit for in the ninth inning. Jason Michaels is on this team for a reason.

Some relevant statistics:

Nixon vs. LHP, career: .214/.308/.324
Okajima vs. LHB, 2007: .094/.216/.094 (small sample size)

The whole idea behind the outfield of platoons is that the Indians could leverage a two players' disparate splits in such a way that the combined at-bats for the position would resemble a pretty good corner outfielder. They've given Nixon almost as many at-bats (40) versus left-handers as Kelly Shoppach has had in total (46). Not surprisingly, Nixon's splits are in line with his career averages.

(2) Andy Marte should still be in Cleveland. I understand that they needed an extra arm in the bullpen, and Rafael Perez will help. But would there be anything wrong with giving Andy 2-3 weeks' worth of regular at-bats? Now the option has been exercised, and the Indians will be forced to keep Andy in Cleveland in 2008. So where do you play Casey Blake 3-4 times a week? The outfield, where he should be. Both Nixon and Dellucci need to sit against left-handers, and Dellucci hasn't exactly been hitting right-handers with much authority either. Will Dellucci eventually figure it out? Probably, given his career numbers. But if you have other options, why not use them while he does work out of it? There is a way to fit Marte into the rotation, but it's obviously too controversial for Eric Wedge to address.  

Note that I'm not saying "play Marte until August because he has promise!" Maybe he'll never hit. Perhaps Casey Blake will be the best option at third base in 2007. But instead of burning Marte's last option, the Indians had the opportunity to see whether he could stay in the majors, and had the backup plan in place. If he still isn't hitting by the end of June, then go ahead and send him back. The problem is that I don't see any chance of him coming back before September unless Casey Blake gets hurt, thanks to the way both Ben Francisco and Franklin Gutierrez are hitting.

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Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Marte's return before september is not that hard. He just has to hit the ball in Buffalo like he was purported to do when the Indians traded for him. They'll make room for him.

Oh wait, that is not going to happen. Does anyone still believe that Marte has a future as an above average 3B?  

by oxforddave on May 30, 2007 12:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
I sincerely hope you are correct. But my guess is that Francisco, Gutierrez, and even the much maligned Snyder outhit Marte in Buffalo this year.

by oxforddave on May 30, 2007 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Hey, if GF&S can keep up there current pace, I've got no complaints.  That seems unlikely, no?

Meanwhile, grand slam, Josh Rodriguez.  The elementary school crowd goes crazy.

by dgcambridge on May 30, 2007 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Marte nearly killed me with a line drive foul last season.

by homelytourist on May 30, 2007 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Well, that was back when he had the body of a 34 year old.  

Did you at least get the ball?

By the way, Marte with a towering 3 run shot in Indy.

by dgcambridge on May 30, 2007 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Naw, I got out of the way and it hit a middle-aged woman in the chest.  I felt bad about not taking her bullet.  That thing was smoked!  I'm happy to hear he's straightening 'em out today.

by homelytourist on May 30, 2007 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
I've had my doubts for some time.  Althouh I'm told he's still young (23?) and it could still happen.  We are all aware of what can happen when you demand too much from a young player.  I think it would be prudent for the Tribe to give Marte the time he needs to get comfortable at the plate again.  And Buffalo is the best place for that.  I think that we all agree that this year's team is a contender - not a good situation to develope young talent.
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on May 30, 2007 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
You're told he's young? Do you have doubts about his age?

by afh4 on May 30, 2007 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
My people are also confirming that he's young.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on May 30, 2007 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
I have only been able to contact half of my people. They claim the other half has the data on his age.

by afh4 on May 30, 2007 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
I, and others I'm sure, look forward to the other 1/2 of your people's confirmation of the first 1/2 of your people's confirmation that he is indeed young.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on May 30, 2007 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Yeah, here's my problem: the birth records for many of the Latin players lack a certain provenance.  So when I see a stat that says a Latin player is a certain age I am prepared to re-adjust that number if other evidence is offered.  He just doesn't look 23 to me. I was trying to be nice.
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on May 30, 2007 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Since they went through and changed all those birthdates 3 or 4 years ago I assume teams are doing a better job policing, etc. I'm going to put more stock in the Indians, Red Sox, and Braves all seeming very confident in his age than in how he "looks."

He's been in pro baseball since he was 17 and was probably scouted since he was around 15. I'd like to think people who've watched him develop physically have a good understanding of his age, though maybe that's naive.

by afh4 on May 30, 2007 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
I feel you both should know this entire conversation made me burst into giggles in the computer lab at school. I'm getting funny looks.

by AngG on May 30, 2007 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Who is still in school on May 30?  Are you in high school?

by dgcambridge on May 30, 2007 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
No no no.  She's the tech for the lab.  Want some tape for those glasses Ang?
Where'd my sig go.

by BostonWahoo on May 30, 2007 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Ohio State has finals next week. :\ And then I'm done!

by AngG on May 30, 2007 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Ah the good old quarter system... Undergrad or grad?

by hans on May 30, 2007 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Undergrad, in spite of being 24 today. I'm like one of those dudes who's tearing it up in A-ball, but it's 'cause he's secretly 25. :)

by AngG on May 30, 2007 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
the beer stube is a nice little underated bar on 9th and High. Best juke box I've ever had the pleasure playing.

by hans on May 30, 2007 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
She's at one of the satelite campus's (campi?).  Larry's was much better - and Dick's Den.
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on May 30, 2007 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
A lot of the bars on south campus have been demolished to make way for the Campus Gateway complex:

http://www.southcampusgateway.com/

by woodsmeister on May 30, 2007 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Yeah I lived on the North east side (yeah I lived on Chittenden for three years!) Dicks den was a bit of a hike. I actually enjoyed the short north alot, having a friend who lived down there.

I always had a soft spot for the thirsty scholar because of the name and image of a bunch of scholars sitting around drinking after a hard night at the science library.

by hans on May 30, 2007 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
mauichuck's right. I'm actually at the Lima campus. I just don't reveal this straight up because it sounds so much cooler if I'm at main campus. :D

by AngG on May 30, 2007 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
oooo, Lima. too bad, the c-bus campus had a nice little anarcho/punk scene, much better than cleveland's anyways.

by hans on May 30, 2007 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
must you taunt me with the things i do not have? :)

by AngG on May 31, 2007 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
My people are now confirming that AngG received funny looks.  Can anyone else's people corroborate?
-Erik

by drerikbrady on May 30, 2007 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
My people were too busy giving AngG funny looks to notice.  Anyone else?
Where'd my sig go.

by BostonWahoo on May 30, 2007 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
The aforementioned second half of my people have confirmed it's funny to laugh aloud in a computer lab. They are, typically, claiming the first half actually has the age data. I'm going to contact some people I let go and see if they know anything about this.

by afh4 on May 30, 2007 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Except it will. You'll eat your words soon enough.

by Joe. on May 30, 2007 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
i'd say he has a good chance.  at 20 he slugged .525 at AA in 100 games, at 21 he slugged .506 at AAA in 100 games, posting decent OBP (.364 and .372 respectively).  he essentially outhit j-ho and grady who progressed through AA and AAA at approximately the same ages (marte was a bit younger than grady, i think, and about the same age as jhonny).  he backslid a bit in buffalo last year, which was disappointing, but i can't blame the kid for not crushing mlb pitching last year at 22.  this year his mlb sample size is really to small to reach any definitive conclusion.  clearly he needs to make some adjustments and work on tightening up his swing, but i don't think you can just write off a 23 year old with his kind of track record.  at his age, it's fairly impressive that he's cracked the mlb roster at all.  his primary competition right now for a 25-man spot, ben francisco, didn't play a season at AAA until he was 23-24.  and his numbers, while perfectly fine, were inferior to what marte out up at AAA at age 21.  

by emil minty on May 30, 2007 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
I completely agree with 1.  But I'm not convinced that Marte is right for the big league squad right now.  Giving him 30-40 ABs in the next few weeks is +2 in the loss column, at a minimum.  The tribe has been successful, even with the slumps from Pronk and Grady, because there is consistent production from the bottom of the lineup.  From Barf's near-30 RBIs to Dellucci/Michaels coming through, its been pretty good.  Right now, Andy Marte is an out.  He is almost a certain out.  A rally killer.  And if you compare Marte and Blake defensively, I don't know that Blake at his best isn't better than Marte has shown us in the last 18 months.  Maybe Casey doesn't quite have the same range, but he plays with more confidence, lines up hitters better, and makes stronger throws.  Not to mention the .310 (or something) from the 2-hole.

My under-educated, low-rent opinion is that when the division lead is on the line, you go with your best options.  2008 will sort itself out.  Today you play to win today.

Where'd my sig go.

by BostonWahoo on May 30, 2007 12:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
I have to believe that Wedge left Nixon in at the end of the game, because it was Boston.  I find that to be totally ridiculous.

As for Marte, I'm less concerned.  He can play his way onto the team earlier than September by hitting.  A 850+ OPS would be nice.  I guess the Blake situation makes it seem like its a competition between Marte and Francisco/Gutz, but the latter two have significantly more veteran competition.

by dgcambridge on May 30, 2007 12:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
I said this in response to a Jay comment in the game thread but I think Wedge's handling of Nixon is nothing more than irrational favoritism and has been an inexcusable lapse in what has otherwise been, I believe, good judgment concerning a mix of young talent and experience by Wedge.  Hopefully, this Nixon thing will pass but I think it's more likely that this will be a theme this year.  I believe Wedge's greatest flaw as a manager is stubbornness.  As for Marte, I echo the above sentiments.  I'm willing to give him more time in Buffalo until he forces the Indians' hand, much in the same way Sowers did last year.

by NickFantana on May 30, 2007 12:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
No one's talking about Miller being injured, but I am bummed.

by Joe. on May 30, 2007 2:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Well, I think we still don't know much.  I tried to ask Carroll in his chat today, but no response.

by dgcambridge on May 30, 2007 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Well he's on the Dl. I just hope it's quick.

by Joe. on May 30, 2007 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
it's just a clever way to keep his innings down so he can help us down the stretch.  
a permutation on the ricciardi method of handling "injured" pitchers

by mpstable on May 30, 2007 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Grady just looked lost last night.

On the brighter side, Hafner's last two PAs were promising, rifling a triple (his second!) and drawing a walk off of a guy who destroys lefties. Hopefully, this is a sign of things to come.

by one size more on May 30, 2007 2:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Anybody else find it amazing that Pronk now has more triples (2) than Sizemore?

This is the kind of positive energy that Pronk needs for us to keep pointing out.

Unofficial Andy Marte and Joe Borowski Apologist. My fantasy team - Swindon SpecOps 27.

by woodsmeister on May 30, 2007 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
And Big-League Choo has his 6th straight game with at least two hits (although only 3 for extra bases).

by APV on May 30, 2007 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Homered and doubled, driving in 4. Bisons have a very potent lineup right now. I'm sure both Francisco and Gutz are very aware one of them will probably be called up soon, and they're playing like it (as in well!).

by mcrose on May 30, 2007 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
The double was off a righty. Always nice to see.

by Joe. on May 30, 2007 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Yeah, I was about to say off two different pitchers, which is a positive sign.

by afh4 on May 30, 2007 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Excellent, I hope Marte gets it straightened out. I know he was young for his levels, but his body looks much older, and he doesn't possess the athleticism of Grady or even (gasp) Jhonny. His skills are also the older player skills (walks and power), which has proven to not translate as well.

So Marte has the youth thing going for him, but maybe not as much as we would like.

by oxforddave on May 30, 2007 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
He hit for contact well for his age in the minors also. And his defense. He was/is a great, great prospect, not a guy with just a few skills he needs to capitalize on.

Old player skills do fine for many guys, anyway. They just tend not to age well into their thirties which is fine for the Indians.

by afh4 on May 30, 2007 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
He may have not struck out alot, but batting average is a young person skill, and Marte has never been accused of having that skill.

If I remember correctly (correct me if I'm wrong), young player skills: batting average, speed (steals and triples), prime defensive position (CF or SS), overall athleticism.

Old player skills: Walks, power.

Sizemore and Barfield are your prototypical young players. Garko and Pronk have more of the older skills, but still have the important batting average skill (and they are older). Peralta is a mish-mash. Marte definitely is on the older side with his skills.

It is not that old players skills are bad, it is just that young players who exhibit only these skills don't seem to work out very well. And its not like they work out for a while and then they decline quicker, they often don't work out at all.

by oxforddave on May 30, 2007 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
I'm just looking at his career minor league average and I think it's at .272, with a bad year last year. If you look at his age adjustment, I think he has to have been considered at least a fine "batting average prospect." Admittedly, I'm just kind of doing this in my head and it's possible age is a less significant factor than I think.

Looking at Thome, Glaus, and a couple of other guys it appears you're probably right.  

by afh4 on May 30, 2007 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Don't really know how athletic one is over the other, but Marte is a significantly better fielder than Peralta.

by Joe. on May 30, 2007 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Aww, c'mon. This is ridiculous. Jhonny is not very good out there, but he plays shortstop. If they switched positions, there would be no comparison.

by oxforddave on May 30, 2007 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Peralta has played third so direct comparisons can be made. Marte is just a really good fielder.

by Joe. on May 30, 2007 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Judging from GC, Andy hit his last pitch to the warning track. No strikeouts.

I have to believe he has pressed when in the majors.

by afh4 on May 30, 2007 4:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
I still think it was his defense rather than his hitting that got him sent down. If he was excelling with the glove, he would get much leeway with the bat (like Barfield). Garko has been getting time by excelling with the bat. He just needs to do one thing that makes Wedge say, "I have to play this guy."

by oxforddave on May 30, 2007 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
I don't know why I wrote no strikeouts. He struck out once today. I think I was just trying to will him to not strikeout.

by afh4 on May 30, 2007 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
I'm not the greatest judge of defensive prowess, but from watching the games the first part of the season, I'd say that Marte's defense has been more than adequate.

by woodsmeister on May 30, 2007 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
A link whould have done just fine here ....

by talonk on May 30, 2007 6:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
I strongly recommend you remove this and either post a just link or a much shorter excerpt plus a link.

by Ryan on May 30, 2007 7:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
i'm afraid i don't have those skills.  please feel free to delete.  

by emil minty on May 30, 2007 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Sorry, I forgot that not everyone had a delete function. Go ahead and post a smaller excerpt. This isn't to pick on you, it's to ensure that nobody gets in trouble with copyright violations, and to protect other people's intellectual property.  

by Ryan on May 31, 2007 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
that's quite alright.  wasn't considering the attribution issue.

by emil minty on May 31, 2007 8:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Fifty: Red Sox 4, Indians 2
Do you think Wedge would have brought in Cabrera if the Indians were closer to Boston than 3 runs?
I don't think so.  It was an opportunity to give Cabrera a shot; not a mop-up situation but relatively low risk.

If the Indians had not allowed a run in that inning already, the Tribe would have come back to tie it.

by palcal on May 30, 2007 7:09 PM EDT reply actions  

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