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Around SBN: Champions League Preview with Jimmy Conrad

Game Thread: May 30, 2007

Cleveland at Boston, 7:05 PM (WKYC/ESPN2)

Starting Pitchers:

Boston: Daisuke Matsuzaka (4.43 ERA, 30 PRC)
Cleveland: The Cobra (3.81 ERA, 21 PRC)

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I love the clever names! :-)
Hello everyone,

I just have to say that I love the clever names:

The Cobra (Paul Byrd)
Sleepy Kitten (Cliff Lee)

Can we come up with 3 other appropriate nicknames for Sowers, Sabathia, and Carmona?  :-)

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on May 30, 2007 6:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: I love the clever names! :-)
Carmona has already been dubbed Dr. Faust if I recall correctly. I guess we could call him Doc for short. Imagine if he pitches a no-no, then he could be Doc No.

Sowers? I have no idea, but anything that is crafty, lefty, etc. should work just fine.

CC - hmmmmm .... I like something that works in his batting prowess ... Pronk-lite? Nah .... no clue ...

by talonk on May 30, 2007 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I forgot about Dr. Faust - thanks! :-)
Hello talonk,

Somehow, I forgot about Dr. Faust - duh!  Must have had a brain cramp!  :-)

I guess we have to include Westbrook when he returns too - I don't know if "Jake The Snake" works (plus the fact that Jake Plummer has/had that nickname - I think he retired from the NFL though after the Broncos wouldn't resign him, didn't he?  Not sure.)

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on May 30, 2007 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: I forgot about Dr. Faust - thanks! :-)
Actually, Jake the Snake stole that name from Kenny "The Snake" Stabler, QB of the Raiders in the 70's.

by talonk on May 30, 2007 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: I love the clever names! :-)
Jeremy "Sweet'n" Sowers
CC "Sizzler" Sabathia (both for his fastball and his buffet loving figure

by maximize22 on May 30, 2007 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: I love the clever names! :-)
With the below as disclaimer ... I think "The Sizzler" is pretty good ... adding "The" because it sounds better and makes the restaurant reference just a slight bit subtle.

I was thinking a couple weeks ago that "Lucky" would be a good nickname for Sowers, since nobody can figure out how he's getting anybody out (when he is).  Plus, somebody has to be Lucky, right?

Not sure if either of those will stick.  Like I said, you can't force these things.

by Jay on May 31, 2007 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: I love the clever names! :-)
Oh, I forgot, my other Sowers idea was "Bottle Rocket."

by Jay on May 31, 2007 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: I love the clever names! :-)
i think i need that one explained to me.

by nctribefan on May 31, 2007 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: I love the clever names! :-)
Sometimes a player doesn't need a nickname, and Carmona is that guy.

His name is Fausto Carmona.  That name is way cooler than most nicknames.

Dr. Faust is a poor nickname.  It doesn't mean anything and isn't funny.  See how it suffers in comparison with The Cobra and Sleepy Kitten.

To me, he is, simply:  Fausto.

If you want, his nickname can just be his first name in italics.  Fausto "Fausto" Carmona.

In general, I would say, you can't force these things, you just have to let them happen and spot them when they do.  Bad nicknames are annoying, and we don't need to nickname everybody.

by Jay on May 31, 2007 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: I love the clever names! :-)
See, now i like Dr. Faust way better than Sizzler.  Who says it doesn't mean anything (not that a nickname has to).  It pays sublte homage to Doc Gooden and hints at his hellish splitter.  Sizzler just makes me want to wretch when i think about it more than anything else.

by Brick. on May 31, 2007 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: I love the clever names! :-)
Noted.  Carmona bears no resemblance to Doc Gooden, so the subtle homage would seem to be random.

by Jay on May 31, 2007 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: I love the clever names! :-)
right, just that he's a new, young, exciting pitcher (like gooden once was) - not saying they're carbon copies style wise.  there's precedent for a pitcher's nickname being dr. that's all - homage probably not the right word...

by Brick. on May 31, 2007 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: I love the clever names! :-)
How about Doc Medich - he was a real doctor - MD that is.
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on May 31, 2007 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: I love the clever names! :-)
Umm, I've always assumed Dr. Faust was a thinly veiled reference to the Faust legend. It's been spelled every possible way, so Dr. Fausto would probably make more sense.

The connection being, Fausto has made some kind of deal with the devil to be an awesome pitcher. Or, more specifically, to retire endless batters without recording strikeous.

by afh4 on May 31, 2007 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: I love the clever names! :-)
Mm, okay, I can see that as plausible.  Fausto just doesn't feel like a deal-with-the-devil guy, though.  He didn't come out of nowhere, he isn't having a fluke season.  He's just a young, natural talent with filthy stuff.

by Jay on May 31, 2007 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: I love the clever names! :-)
Yeah but names count for something, right? And when does anyone ever have F-A-U-S-T consecutively in any part of their name?

by afh4 on May 31, 2007 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: I love the clever names! :-)
Hey...we don't know what Fausto had to do to get his teeth fixed....

by APV on May 31, 2007 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: I love the clever names! :-)
that was the obvious part of the nickname - i was explaining some of the subler nuiances of it...

by Brick. on May 31, 2007 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: I love the clever names! :-)
I don't know, speaking only for myself, I'm not feeling it.  It just seems banal -- his name is Fausto, so we call him Dr. Faust?  Again, I ask, isn't this obviously below the standard of The Cobra, Sleepy Kitten, K-brera and Big League Choo?

I mean, should we not have standards?

by Jay on May 31, 2007 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: I love the clever names! :-)
Big League Choo (or BLC, if you're into the whole brevity thing) is the gold standard.  K-brera is acquiring irony, so that nickname is particularly funny as well.

by homelytourist on May 31, 2007 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: I love the clever names! :-)
Sowers will be in Buffalo soon.  I think his last name speaks for itself.

But I still think he COULD be a Jamie Moyers type of pitcher that is worth keeping around.

If Adam Miller was not inured, he'd be up in the bigs after the all-star break.

by SpringTrainingFun on May 30, 2007 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Call me crazy, but does anyone else think that when Westbrook replaces Sowers in the rotation, Sowers should replace Koplove/Perez in the pen?

I'm pretty sure Koplove is going to be sent down when we bring up another position player (since we only have 8 BP guys because we were semi-short handed). I was depending on Miller (Matt, that is) to be himself once he came off the DL and secure the 7th BP spot, but he's been struggling at AAA and I'm not so sure he's worthy of a callup. Perez could be a great fit for the 7th spot, but at the same time, do we want Sowers at AAA?

I heard yesterday that lefties are hitting like .150 against Sowers. Sowers doesn't walk very many guys. It sounds like he could be a great lefty out of the pen.

by one size more on May 30, 2007 6:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Might be more likely for Perez to be sent down only because he has options.  Unless the FO has seen enough of Koplove already and deemed him dispensable, Koplove's "out clause" would make it difficult to send him back down to AAA.

by mplswahoo on May 30, 2007 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think many see Sowers as a starter, not as a
reliever.

Hello one size more,

Most would not think of Sowers as a bullpen guy; while LH have not hit well against him this year, normally with bullpen relievers, you want a guy who has a decent to strong K ratio - that guy isn't Sowers, certainly not at this point (and Sowers probably will never have a high K ratio anyway; maybe a decent K ratio at best some day.)  Sowers' command hasn't been quite as sharp as last year, and with his very limited margin for error, he'd have to be on right away coming out of the bullpen, especially if there are runners already on base.

That's why more have been intrigued by the thought of having Cliff Lee shift to the bullpen - he may regain some of his lost velocity, plus the fact that Lee seems to pitch well for 2-4 innings, then suddenly just loses it.  If he only has to face a lineup once, he could be quite effective.  However, with the amount of money he's being paid and his past success as a starter, it's doubtful he'll be changed into a reliever any time soon.

But between the two, I'd think Lee would be likelier to see the bullpen at some point than Sowers would - Sowers seems more like that #4/#5 starter who fills the back-end of a solid rotation.  If Sowers did enter a bullpen, it'd probably be more as a long reliever, someone along the lines of Kirk Saarloos (a #5/long reliever soft-tossing RH pitcher.)

Just my 2 cents.  :-)

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on May 30, 2007 6:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: I think many see Sowers as a starter,
Lee would probably be the better BP guy, but this is a financially conservative team, and that's a lot of money to pay a non-closer in the pen.

That being said, Sowers in his last two starts has looked better than Lee has in every start except for Lee's complete game, so who knows. All I know is, Westbrook looked good in his last two pre-injury games, and we just extended him, so he pretty much has a guaranteed rotaiton spot upon his return, and at this point, there is NO WAY we can send down Fausto. We did it once and it almost cost us dearly (if Westbrook never gets injured, we lose all of those awesome Carmona starts).

One of them has to either go to the pen or AAA, and the pen certainly seems more likely.

by one size more on May 30, 2007 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think the Indians see Sowers as more of a
starter, so his being sent back down to AAA to work on things and making adjustments probably shouldn't be seen as a bad thing - it might help Sowers to become more consistent at the ML level so that he can stay up here on a permanent basis.

Just my 2 cents.  :-)

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on May 30, 2007 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: I think the Indians see Sowers as more of a
Sowers didn't pitch all that bad last night, and it's his second improving start.  I think that by the time Jake gets back he might have righted the ship himself up here.  I'm personally a fan of moving Lee to the 'pen, although it's a tough thing to do to a guy who received Cy Young votes just a few years ago.
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by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: I think the Indians see Sowers as more of a
Oh boy, oh boy, I'm glad someone agrees with me.

I look at this way:

Both are lefties with garbage stuff and terrible K rates. Might as well take the guy who isn't a ridiculous flyball pitcher.

by Joe. on May 30, 2007 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
V-Mart with a much deserved day off today. Only his second day off since April 30th.

by supermarioelia on May 30, 2007 6:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Between the Detroit and Boston series, the Tribe has made the highlights of CNN Int'l 4 of the last 6 nights.  Not bad considering they only cover one game a night.
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by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 7:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
/eyes TV askance.

So... STO is showing poker. And, because the game is supposed to be on STO, I'm blacked out on ESPN2 and getting ESPNNews.

... wtf.

by AngG on May 30, 2007 7:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Did everyone see that Mauer's return from the DL has been delayed?
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by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 7:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Oh no. Man, I call a guy hot one time, and sudenlly he can't get off the DL.

by AngG on May 30, 2007 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Call him hot more often then.
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by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Does Grady need a night off?  Should we end The Streak?
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by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 7:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Listening to Steve Phillips dissect the Indians    is going to be a lot of fun, I can tell already.                                                                                                                                                                                                                      

by NickFantana on May 30, 2007 7:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Orel Hershiser commented that Garko "seems to have more of a catcher's body than a first baseman's body."

by NickFantana on May 30, 2007 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
ESPN reliving the snowouts at the Jake,
while Hafner is HOT.

by palcal on May 30, 2007 7:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Garko, showing off his hbp skills.

by AngG on May 30, 2007 7:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
We need a nickname for Garko.
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by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I mean, there is always Gonnie Garko, but I also rather like the idea of a nickname based on his mad HBP skillz.

by AngG on May 30, 2007 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Polo.  I still think whenever he is announced at the park, "polo" should be echoed immediately after "garko".

by Thommy on May 30, 2007 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Trot kills us - grrrr....  

Where's the grit?

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by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 7:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Trot with a very poor AB!
Hello everyone,

Darn - that was exactly what I hoped he WOULDN'T do.  Why did he have to jump on the first pitch, and on a questionable pitch he could drive to the OF?  

It would have been very nice to play from out in front against them for the first time this series.  Trot's not looking too good against RHP lately either.

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on May 30, 2007 7:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Trot with a very poor AB!
DK splits are much better against lefties.

by palcal on May 30, 2007 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Trot with a very poor AB!
DKM  .210 vs LH
     .274 vs RH

by palcal on May 30, 2007 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Meant to say...
Hello everyone,

I meant to say,

"Why did he have to jump on the first pitch, and on a questionable pitch THAT he PROBABLY COULDN'T drive to the OF?"

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on May 30, 2007 7:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Good AB by Barfield.
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by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 7:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Anybody else think that Shoppach is Byrd's personal catcher just to give us a championship-worthy level of idiosyncracy for announcers to discuss?

by NickFantana on May 30, 2007 7:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
According to Wall Street Journal, Sox owner John Henry is in a big slump.  Merrill Lynch withdrew $600M from his investment firm, leaving it with only $500M, down from $2.5B.

Is he paying too much attention to his winner?

by palcal on May 30, 2007 7:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Happiness:  Watching a game in standard definition, then realizing before the third that it's on HD.

by Thommy on May 30, 2007 7:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
If he's not careful, the Red Sox will cut payroll like the Dolan's did in 2002.

by ShawnK on May 30, 2007 7:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Only if their attendence drops to Tribe-like levels.
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on May 30, 2007 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Henry cut payroll as deeply as the Indians did?  I'm not sure what the Sox' revenues are, but if his core business is in distress it probably makes more sense for him to sell the team pronto.

by homelytourist on May 30, 2007 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I could be wrong, but I think Boston is owned by a collection of people mainly by Henry

by Roger Dorn on May 30, 2007 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I love the fact that the Yankees are 14 1/2 games out.  They could show that standings board all night for all I care.

by Thommy on May 30, 2007 7:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I love it when the Yankee's suck.  And right now I'm in heaven.
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on May 30, 2007 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Red Sox GM Theo Epstein just stated that the "engine" that makes the Red Sox run is the team's starting pitching.

Hey, Theo, how about the $143,026,214 that's your 2007 player payroll?

If the Tribe or any other team had money like this, including what Boston has spent on some of the stupidest player contracts around, they'd be in first place, 11 1/2 games out, too.

Man, I hate the East Boast teams.  

by ploni on May 30, 2007 8:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Well said.  And thanks for the precise salary number, I hate it when people deal in generalities.

by Thommy on May 30, 2007 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Trot cannot take strike three looking there when his primary job is simply to get Garko over there.
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by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 8:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
And now it's up to DD?  Talk about wasted chances...
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by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 8:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Man, we're just stinkin it up at the plate since leaving Detroit.

by tborish on May 30, 2007 8:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I don't know if I'd go as far as 'stinking up the place' but we're definitely the lesser team these past few games.
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by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Ah - excuse me.  You said plate not place.  I take back my comment and generally agree with ya.  We just look tired.
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by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
It may have something to do with the pitching or the park.

by palcal on May 30, 2007 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
This series is getting very predictable.  Can the Indians do something to make it less boring?

I guess managing to get swept for the season in both Fenway Park and Yankee Stadium would be some kind of marker for the season.

by palcal on May 30, 2007 8:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
MAYBE JUST MAYBE SIZEMORE WILL NOT STRIKE OUT.
Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 8:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I'm not really sure what's going on with Sizemore and Hafner, but if their bats don't wake up, this slide could go well beyong three games.

by ShawnK on May 30, 2007 8:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Grady has been killing my fantasy team all week so far, nice to see him get that double.  

As a note we have batter k's for a cat.

Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 8:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Steve Phillips...Orel Hershiser is making you sound like a complete moron.

by APV on May 30, 2007 8:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Except that, for once, Phillips called it right.
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on May 30, 2007 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Did Phillips say that if he were the GM that he'd walk Pronk?  Since he isn't a GM anymore, doesn't that kind of tell you how that opinion served him?

by Thommy on May 30, 2007 8:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
you know, cuz the GM is the one who calls for the IBB's

by Brick. on May 30, 2007 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Finally - PRONK!
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by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 8:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Garko's pose after his swing makes me want to punch him in the face.

by Joe. on May 30, 2007 8:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Actually not a bad at bat for Garko.  Sometimes the pitcher wins.
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on May 30, 2007 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Hi-ho all, just arrived....what'd I miss?

by Jackdaw on May 30, 2007 8:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I like how we scored two runs in the inning on a big hit by Pronk...and the clip they show heading to the break is Garko's strikeout. ESPN should just be known as the Red Sox/Yankees network.

by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 8:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I thought it was weird to see Coco bunt in the 5th inning, but then I remembered that he can't hit.

by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 8:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I see Matsuzaka is already at 90 pitches after 5 innings....guys are apparently being patient at the plate at least.

by Jackdaw on May 30, 2007 8:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
With Pedroia's hit, the Sox have 5 players in tonight's line-up hitting above .300.

by palcal on May 30, 2007 8:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Byrd 62 pitches - DiceK 90 pitches.  Let's hope we can get into their BP this inning.
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on May 30, 2007 8:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
why would we want to get into the red sox' Brandon Phillips?  Do they even have one?

by Brick. on May 30, 2007 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
No, no, he means a BP gas station someplace near Fenway.

by Jackdaw on May 30, 2007 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
forget it, Nixon got it down the line.
smart ball girl

by palcal on May 30, 2007 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Because theoretically we need him to hit for DD later.  Plus Wedge won't bench Nixon in Boston.  It'd get in the way of his man-crush.

Then again, Trot it could be because Nixon hits a double.

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by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Ah Wedge turning his attention from Blake to Nixon?

by JK in CBus on May 30, 2007 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Nah - Wedge just had to sit down and explain to Blake that his love of another man doesn't mean he loves Blake any less.
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by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Nice one, DD.

by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 9:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Dellucci really wants me to stop thinking he's a bum.

by AngG on May 30, 2007 9:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Also! Barfield!

by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 9:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I guess we spoke too soon. Damn you, Rick Reed.

by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
J-Barf!  
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by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 9:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
People always rip Manny for his outfield defense but he is one of the better guys at these type of plays.
Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 9:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
You're right, Pedroia missed the tag on Barfield.  So it goes . . .

by macasson on May 30, 2007 9:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Since when does Manny make a smart play?????

by JK in CBus on May 30, 2007 9:05 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
When the other player makes a dumber move.

by palcal on May 30, 2007 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
That's why we don't need boners on the basepaths. 6-2 instead of 7-2.

by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 9:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Not that I'm complaining about Size's HR or anything.

by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaadddddddddddYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Finally.
Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 9:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Bad umping cost us a run.  It's great to see the bats come alive.
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by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 9:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Bad play by J-Barf - bad enough to look "out" - but he was never actually tagged

by mplswahoo on May 30, 2007 9:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
This Grady feller.  I think we should keep him.

by Jackdaw on May 30, 2007 9:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Good. Grady and Pronk getting hot for the 4-gamer against the Tiggers

by Roger Dorn on May 30, 2007 9:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
If it is happening it'll probably last a couple months not just 4 games, just imagine that.... for some good vibes

by JK in CBus on May 30, 2007 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Maybe Grady and Pronk are both starting to come around
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on May 30, 2007 9:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
And when I want to be all "GRADY!!!!" my internet goes down until it isn't terribly relevant anymore. Booers. HI AGAIN.

by AngG on May 30, 2007 9:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
You can still say it; we'll understand.

by Jackdaw on May 30, 2007 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
GRADY!!!!!!!

There. That's better.

by AngG on May 30, 2007 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Haa! $51 million for that?! Sayanara, Dicey!

by ploni on May 30, 2007 9:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
That's what I was thinking....the Red Sox paid an awful lot of money for a league-average pitcher.

by Jackdaw on May 30, 2007 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
He's a lot better than league average. A lot.

by Joe. on May 30, 2007 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Is he?
ERA 4.43 (league average 4.25, according to Yahoo)
WHIP 1.24 (league average 1.38)

I don't know where to find more advanced statistics like RC and ERA+, but those look pretty average to me.

All I'm saying is that if I were spending $100 million on a guy, I'd want better results than that.

by Jackdaw on May 30, 2007 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Wait til you what the Yankees get for $12.M a month - ougatz!
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on May 30, 2007 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Four hours of the MLB Draft is boring enough, but sticking Steve Phillips in it in the Kiper role? Yikes.

by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 9:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I found him to be so annoying that I had to switch to the Red Sox broadcast . . . .

by mplswahoo on May 30, 2007 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Oops! I forgot about the $100 million ransom to get him out of Japan.

by ploni on May 30, 2007 9:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Does anyone else wonder if Shoppach should be getting a bit more playing time?

by Jeffrey R on May 30, 2007 9:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I do - but it's just so tough to sit Vic.
Dominating both LGT Fantasy Baseball Leagues.

by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Agreed. But Vic could DH or play 1B once in a while. It's tough, I agree. But Shoppach has really been excellent this season, and he's doing it with these irregular starts. I don't really know anything about hitting, but people always seem to say it is about timing, which is difficult to maintain without regular play. But Shoppach is really doing it, plus offering great defense.

by Jeffrey R on May 30, 2007 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I have been telling Shap for weeks about Shoppach.  Maybe he will finally start listening.
Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Not really, but that is a direct result of the current makeup of the roster, and has nothing to do with Shoppach's abilities.  He'd be starting for a good number of teams out there.  

by mplswahoo on May 30, 2007 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I would love to sit next to Shapiro at a Tribe game

by Roger Dorn on May 30, 2007 9:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
And everyone gets to bat this inning.
Dominating both LGT Fantasy Baseball Leagues.

by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 9:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
None.
Dominating both LGT Fantasy Baseball Leagues.

by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Byrd walks as many batters as Shapiro signs great free agents.
Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Would Paul Byrd not count in that total?

by Roger Dorn on May 30, 2007 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Tampa Bay just took the lead against Detroit.

by osoc13 on May 30, 2007 9:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I love how Byrd is at 71 pitches through 6 innings.  And he's looking strong now.  It's great to give the pen a rest heading into the Detroit series.
Dominating both LGT Fantasy Baseball Leagues.

by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 9:21 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
The boys are leaving some dents in the green monster tonight...

by Brick. on May 30, 2007 9:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Would it be totally crazy to have Garko always bat cleanup and have Vic hit 5th?
Dominating both LGT Fantasy Baseball Leagues.

by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 9:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Why on earth would we do that? Victor is the superior hitter so I just don't see any justification for it.

by Joe. on May 30, 2007 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Might make more sense to bat Hafner, Martinez, Garko 3,4,5.  I'm not thrilled with Nixon there.  However, Wedge loves the LRLR setup.

by mplswahoo on May 30, 2007 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
A couple of reasons:

  • Garko has thrived there in the past.
  • It'd make the lineup deeper by giving Garko more pitches to hit.
  • It's the same concept that the #2 hitter will see better pitches and thus do better.

It's just a thought.  Like I said, might be carzy.  No disputing the superior hitter thing.
Dominating both LGT Fantasy Baseball Leagues.

by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I think that bc Vic is a switch hitter his ought to stay in the cleanup spot (assuming no sudden and sustained decline in productivity). Garko sure does make a case for himself, though.

by osoc13 on May 30, 2007 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Steve Phillips has to read this blog. That comment was taken straight from some of you guys

by Roger Dorn on May 30, 2007 9:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
What comment?
Dominating both LGT Fantasy Baseball Leagues.

by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
The Indians lack leadership and the signings of Nixon and Dellucci really added the veteran leadership and grit

by Roger Dorn on May 30, 2007 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Phillips commented on Trot's "grit" factor

by mplswahoo on May 30, 2007 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
What's up with Orel saying Grady's got no charisma.  He must not be aware of Grady's current automobile...

by APV on May 30, 2007 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Hershiser has just added Byrd to the grit and gut club.  Well done, Orel.  

by macasson on May 30, 2007 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Nixon is looking awful bad against the Sox.  Maybe they just know how to pitch to him or .....
Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 9:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
2-11 awful any way you slice it.
Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
And everyone has a hit tonight.
Dominating both LGT Fantasy Baseball Leagues.

by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 9:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Someone please stop me if this has been talked about  but here I go:

Last year I noticed that, anytime we were on national TV, the announcers said that Eduardo Perez is the son of Tony Perez.  And I mean every time, maybe 2 or 3 times a game.  Now I've noticed this year, the same happens with Josh (and Jesse) Barfield.  How has this not been discussed?  
Shapiro must have traded for him this offseason to fill the quota of sons of former major leaguers!  This is the beginning of a new baseball philosophy!
Next year, we'll get Koby Clemens, Ken Griffey Jr., and Tony Pena Jr.

I love it.  Notice it next time.

- Jake

by jakesinger777 on May 30, 2007 9:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Koby is on steriods, Ken would be nice and Tony Pena Jr already plays in our minor leagues. (see light hitting, smooth SS)
Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Tony Pena Jr. is actually on the Royals now

by APV on May 30, 2007 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I am no fan of Delluci, he is hitting awful. Pathic
Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 9:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
As bad as he's been, his hitting is still superior to your spelling.

by Jeffrey R on May 30, 2007 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Also, didn't he hit a double last inning?

by Jackdaw on May 30, 2007 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Just tuning in. Is Hafner "HAFNER" yet?

by gte619n on May 30, 2007 9:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Anyone hear Phillips say how they should put Carmona back in the bullpen?

by ASP on May 30, 2007 9:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Yeah, I heard it. I'm glad he's not the GM of the Indians.

by Jeffrey R on May 30, 2007 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Somebody please tell me you guys are kidding.  Anyone want to start a fire Steve Phillips blog?  I mean, we wouldn't have to counter anything he says, just post it an allow the stupidity stand on it's own.
Dominating both LGT Fantasy Baseball Leagues.

by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
That's a joke, right?  That's extra-stupid, even for him.

by doowop on May 30, 2007 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
wait wait wait orel..gritty pitching?!?
- Jake

by jakesinger777 on May 30, 2007 9:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Bold prediction time: Sizemore somehow gets 2 more ABs and hits for the cycle.  Fenway is the perfect park for the feat.

by homelytourist on May 30, 2007 9:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Wow, what a stat they just put up. Byrd has more wins than walks... amazingly, it's been done seven times over the course a full season.

by Jeffrey R on May 30, 2007 9:37 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
F.  3 straight seeing-eye singles.

by doowop on May 30, 2007 9:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Bah... these balls aren't being hit hard at all. C'mon, Cobra!

Awww, here comes Wedge! Dammit, leave him in, Wedge!

by Jeffrey R on May 30, 2007 9:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
this always happens to Byrda every single outing, he leaves the game with something going on

by luifer5 on May 30, 2007 9:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Yanks are winning 6-5 after a Matt Stair two run HR. The Big Hurt is now at the plate.
Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 9:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
It's okay. we're gonna be okay.

I just think every dude on the Indians should know, since I broke up with Fernando, I'm looking for a new baseball boyfriend. Feel free to impress me, everyone.

by AngG on May 30, 2007 9:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
"everyone," being baseball players. Not, uh. Dudes here. Using the term "boyfriend" is often confusing in this way.

by AngG on May 30, 2007 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Unless some of the dudes here are actually on the Indians' roster.

by Jackdaw on May 30, 2007 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I see a disclaimer in you sig line in your future

by JK in CBus on May 30, 2007 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Now I'm trying to think of the funniest possible way to phrase that.

by AngG on May 30, 2007 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I hope Coco doesn't come back to hurt us on this.
Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 9:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Question: if Pronk grew a beard, would it help him become Real Pronk again?

by AngG on May 30, 2007 9:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Excellent, Mastny. Is it time for Fultz?

by Jeffrey R on May 30, 2007 9:45 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Damn you Roger Dorn and the 2-second advantage you had on me.  Also, if you ever tank a play like that again...

by APV on May 30, 2007 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I had it typed out so I could be first

by Roger Dorn on May 30, 2007 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Oh no, not big Clutch.  Mastny is awesome.  

Fultz no Tie game here we go.

Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 9:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Oh man, I don't know about this.  Leave Mastny in there.

And he's bringing in Fultz?!?!?

F.

by doowop on May 30, 2007 9:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Latest Vegas odds: 10:1 Fultz won't throw more than 1 strike

by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 9:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
He will throw a strike, it just might leave the yard.
Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
how do you not leave mastny in here?  hasn't fultz walked in a run on 4 pitches twice recently?

by Brick. on May 30, 2007 9:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Wait...doesn't Fultz tend to walk guys when the bases are loaded?

by APV on May 30, 2007 9:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Pronk growing a beard would result in Ultra Pronk. Ultra Pronk has the strength of Pronk that has the strength of two Pronks.

Beards... they grow on you.

by BDK on May 30, 2007 9:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
They need better stats for relievers.

Fultz has an ERA under 2?

Having said that, I'd love for Fultz to make me look like a jerk.

by doowop on May 30, 2007 9:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
No kidding.  I think it's madness, and I am even a fan of the Fultzture.

by Jackdaw on May 30, 2007 9:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
In his career, Ortiz's OPS is over 150 points lower against lefties. This is the right move.

by Jeffrey R on May 30, 2007 9:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
In a vacuum it is.
Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
nicely done!

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 9:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Nice job by the Tribe pen. Huzzah! And now we've got Betancourt all set up for the 8th.

by Jeffrey R on May 30, 2007 9:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
/makes careful additions to Blake's file.

by AngG on May 30, 2007 9:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Nothing personal AngG, but after the FCab as your boyfriend fiasco, would you mind loving up on some of the Tigers instead of trying to choose another Indians boyfriend?
-Erik

by drerikbrady on May 31, 2007 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Red, purple, blue.... gasp, whew, breathing again

by JK in CBus on May 30, 2007 9:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Whose bullpen is this and where did our guys go?

Just kidding...maybe this is our year.

by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 9:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Like I said, the move was pure genius.

No, no, no need for you to scroll up to check...

by Jackdaw on May 30, 2007 9:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I call b.s. wrong move. Mastney is awesome, Fultz was lucky.

Secondly when is Shoppach going to be our starting catcher.  VMart should be moved to first or traded.

Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
In the offseason, I had the pipe dream that VMart could be dealt (along with a pitcher) for Chase Utley.

by emd2k3 on May 30, 2007 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
His ERA is under two and his WHIP is under one. What does Fultz need to do to get some love from E5?

by Jeffrey R on May 30, 2007 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Shop-Vac!

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 9:55 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I'm telling you, Shoppach wants more playing time!

by Jeffrey R on May 30, 2007 9:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Looks like he deserves it.
Dominating both LGT Fantasy Baseball Leagues.

by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Way to go Kelly.  In Boston, that has to feel nice.

by APV on May 30, 2007 9:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Shoppach reminding the BoSox what they gave up.  NICE!
Dominating both LGT Fantasy Baseball Leagues.

by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 9:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Our backup catcher rocks...I was going to write that last inning but it seemed apropros of nothing...not anymore, I guess

by haymister on May 30, 2007 9:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Also, beware of any pitcher unloaded by both the Twins and Angels.

by Jackdaw on May 30, 2007 9:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
At the time of the trade, Shoppach was said to have a good shot at making it big.

by ploni on May 30, 2007 9:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
At this point he has given us much more on our return then Marte.
Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Has Shoppach's HR landed yet?

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 10:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I'm at work, looked away for a moment and missed it

by new zealand tribe fan on May 30, 2007 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I am calling a two run HR around pesky for Garko.
Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 10:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Gee, you aren't quite batting one-thousand tonight, eh?

by Jeffrey R on May 30, 2007 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Pronk!

That SB by Sizemore comes in real handy now.  Wow - just wow.

Dominating both LGT Fantasy Baseball Leagues.

by mjmarble on May 30, 2007 10:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I guess stealing is helpful after all.
Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I have to admit I was expecting triple from hafner, though

by haymister on May 30, 2007 10:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I was a little worried who was going to pitch the 8th for us, but that is starting to seem somewhat less important.

by Jackdaw on May 30, 2007 10:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
A quick look at Gamecast, hitters 1, 2 & 3 hitting .270, freaky

by JK in CBus on May 30, 2007 10:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Shoppach is only hitting .360 gee he is on fire.
Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 10:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Oooo - ESPN Sunday Night Baseball is the Yankees and Red Sox.

I am shocked since ESPN hardly ever shows or talkes about either team!

by Mark @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 10:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I can't blame them for this one - all the Sunday night games are booked before the season, and every team gets at least one per season.  It's when they fill the games they have multiple choices on with Yankees/Sox that I get mad.

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
When we continually challenge for the pennant we will get more national time.  Until then we should complain.
Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I should mention that Yankees/Sox will be the Fox Saturday game too.  heh.

by Mark @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
and that's worth a complaint.

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
It's been awhile since we had 16 hits
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on May 30, 2007 10:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Oldberto's on the mound. How many could he give up, anyway?

by ploni on May 30, 2007 10:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Remind me again: why won't you throw strikes with a six run lead?
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on May 30, 2007 10:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Did anyone notice on that loud foul that the cameraman on the roof near left is tethered to a pole?  Scary job!

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 10:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Believe it or not, that's an OSHA requirement
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on May 30, 2007 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Especially when Manny hits the camera with a foul... Happened earlier in the game.

by JK in CBus on May 30, 2007 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Tell me thats not the little things there Steve Phillips

by Roger Dorn on May 30, 2007 10:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Ha, yeah, where was Phillips praising the Indians for the little things there?

by Jeffrey R on May 30, 2007 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Great play by Garko terrible throw by Jhonny.  Shoppach saves a run that Martinez would not have.

START SHOPPACH

Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 10:14 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I'd have someone up and give him one more batter.

But then again, I'm a jerk.

by emd2k3 on May 30, 2007 10:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Could the Indians work with a uniform provider that has the ability to match hats to jerseys? Is it that hard?

Or are we trying to emulate the Dallas Cowboys with myriad blues?

by emd2k3 on May 30, 2007 10:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
well THAT'S a drag...

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 10:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
<shakes head> What are they going to do with Hernandez?

by Jeffrey R on May 30, 2007 10:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Old Berto serves up another.  Suprise
Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 10:16 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Hernandez is not good.  Mujica would be better. Make it happen, Mark.

by Thommy on May 30, 2007 10:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Attention Tribe Front Office!

We have a chance to go to the WS this year. Get rid of our dead wood now.

Start with Hernandez.

by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 10:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Personally I would keep him around just for blow out and let them throw until his arm falls off.
Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Are we seeing oldberto's last game as an Indian?

by LeftyCatcher on May 30, 2007 10:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I think that everybody - including Shapiro - has seen enough.
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on May 30, 2007 10:18 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
To answer my above question:
How many runs can Uh Oh Oldberto give up:
2, so far.

by ploni on May 30, 2007 10:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Bah.  Not even enough to make it a save situation.

by Jackdaw on May 30, 2007 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Is Jason Johnson available.
Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
bottom of the line-up, 4 run lead at least, Cabrera.  Keep Betancourt & JoBo rested, Mastny & Fultz lightly used and Perez rested, good situation.

by JK in CBus on May 30, 2007 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I concur.  Good thinking.  Heck, if we score a couple runs we could even send Oldberto back out there.

by Jackdaw on May 30, 2007 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Under no circumstances do I send Cabrera out there right now.

by APV on May 30, 2007 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
What is the LGT record number of posts for a game?
Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 10:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
We had over 600 in one of those recent Twins games...maybe Fausto's 2nd victory over Santana

by APV on May 30, 2007 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Over the past 30 games, Barfield has an OPS of .751...I'm happy with that.  Over the past 17, he's got an OPS over .800...trending in the right direction

by APV on May 30, 2007 10:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Has anybody noticed that Steve Phillips isn't smart?  He might even be anti-smart, the exact opposite of smart, and really only good for destroying smart when he encounters it.

by Thommy on May 30, 2007 10:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Bizarro smart?

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
He has a sense of humor about his failures... the conversation he just had with Hershiser was absolutely hilarious;  Hersh got Phillips to admit on air, "Mo Vaughn.  Pretty good player for the Red Sox all those years.   not so good for the Mets."

by homelytourist on May 30, 2007 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
What a penetrating insight.
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on May 30, 2007 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
How close is Matt Miller to comming back?
Chas

by Chas-NYY on May 30, 2007 10:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I think close...he faced three guys today, allowing one hit but striking out the other two.  Over his last 7 outings (6.1 IP) he's allowed one run, two walks, and 9 Ks

by APV on May 30, 2007 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
he will be a plus if he returns to form
Chas

by Chas-NYY on May 30, 2007 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Shoppach for All Star catcher.
Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 10:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Shoppach average for the season .373

by luifer5 on May 30, 2007 10:31 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Jesus. Dellucci is sweaty.

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 10:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
You would be sweaty too, if you career is on the down slide.
Winners practice like Champions, losers go through the motions.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
You sure are a cheery guy.

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
What in the heck is 'hamming and egging it'?  Huh?!?!

by macasson on May 30, 2007 10:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
30's baseball term. Ham and egger - hard working gritty player
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on May 30, 2007 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Thanks.  Let's hope the term does not make a comeback.  Yeesh.

by macasson on May 30, 2007 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I like the term actually.  Sounds lunch pail.
Champion of the Kelly Shoppach for Catcher campaign.

by E5 on May 30, 2007 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Because I said so. (way back in another post.)

BTW- Jim Donovan on Channel 3 is awful in the booth. LIke nails on a chalkboard.

by emd2k3 on May 30, 2007 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
live in SE ohio game in boston espn2 game still blacked out
Chas

by Chas-NYY on May 30, 2007 10:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Do you think we could all chip in and get Harold Reynolds to do color for LGT?
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on May 30, 2007 10:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Hershiser, to Phillips:  "We've got the Mets coming up.  That's you're team!"

by homelytourist on May 30, 2007 10:36 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I meant to ask tonight: What's the rule, custom, etc. about which jersey the visiting team wears? The Tribe is wearing their "Indians" jerseys tonight.

by ploni on May 30, 2007 10:38 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Used to be, back when everybody wore flannel uniforms, the home team would wear their whites and the visiting team their grays.  When Charley Finley started dressing the A's in those awful green and yellow softball unies, the visiting coulud wear any color jersey but had to wear their grey pants.
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on May 30, 2007 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Don't you wear the city name of your team at home and nickname on the road?

by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 10:39 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I thought it's the opposite: You want to proclaim your city name on the road.

by ploni on May 30, 2007 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
But I just noticed Red Sox have "Red Sox" on.

by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
It got weird. I don't see any consistent custom anymore.

by ploni on May 30, 2007 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
The blue jersey is the 'special' jersey.  At home the starter usually picks between the white or the special jersey.  On the road the starter's choice is between the gray and the special jersey.  It gets tricky when both teams have blue special jerseys, like the Twins and when CC pitches, he likes the blue jerseys...

by JK in CBus on May 30, 2007 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
there's a grey one that says "cleveland" and a blue one that says "indians." i don't know which ones we wear more, or when which one is worn or what.

by AngG on May 30, 2007 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Except that they wear it at home too.
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on May 30, 2007 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I think there are five possible uniform options.

Road:  (1) classic gray top (Cleveland) and gray bottom; or (2) "special" blue top (Indians) and gray bottom

Home:  (1) classic white top (Indians) and white bottom; (2) those sleeveless whites with the blue undersleeve and white bottoms; and (3) the "special" blue top (Indians) and gray bottom.

The custom always was to proclaim the city (e.g., Cleveland) on the road and the nickname (e.g., Indians) at home.  

My recollection is that somewhere in the mid 90's heyday (probably '94) is when the special blue script "Indians" jersey made its debut.  It was originally intended to be just that - a "special" home jersey, typically used for Sunday matinees and other "special" dates.  Sometime in those middle 90's, however, the Tribe for some reason (I think there was one - to stop bad luck on the road or whatever - but I don't remember the specifics) wore those special home blues with the script "indians" on the road, thus bucking the custom, and they have continued to do so periodically ever since.  

As an additional aside, I remember seeing something on TV or hearing on the radio this season that the game's starting pitcher decides what uniform combo he wants the team to wear for a given game consistent with the options above.

by mplswahoo on May 31, 2007 12:33 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I know a few years ago the starting pitcher could pick which unis to wear...wasn't it Bartolo Colon who would always pick the navy uni's, home or away (back when we had the navy 'Cleveland' script unis)?

by ASP on May 30, 2007 10:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
over .500 for the road trip.

i'll take it.

by AngG on May 30, 2007 10:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Okay. Now on to the Detroit double-header tomorrow (Tribe & Cavaliers).

by ploni on May 30, 2007 10:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Did you just hear about A-Rod on the misplayed popup? He yelled "I got it...I got it" as he ran past short and nobody caught the ball!

What an a-hole.

by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 10:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Someone from Toronto needs to stick one in his near next time they play (or somewhere else that might hurt a bit)

by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Johnny Mac went after him - but nothing happened
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on May 30, 2007 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Did he Karate chop anyone along the way?

by homelytourist on May 30, 2007 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Dude, that's awesome, straight out of the Willie Mays-Hayes playbook
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on May 30, 2007 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
It's about doin'.  What it takes.  To WIN.

by homelytourist on May 30, 2007 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Doin' the little things
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on May 30, 2007 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Nobody else thinks this is fantastic?

by Joe. on May 30, 2007 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I like it. It's funny, it's weird, and if someone on the Indians did it I would think it was weirdly badass. People tend to overreact to this stuff. The game isn't all that serious.

I'm much more into a guy doing that then being obsessed with "getting his uniform dirty."

by afh4 on May 30, 2007 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Agreed. Mind games are part of the game.

by DixonCayne on May 31, 2007 6:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Oh I love it too
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on May 30, 2007 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Sorry, nope, I can't get behind hit, if he really did yell "I've got it."  That's just embarassing.  A little class helps.

by dgcambridge on May 31, 2007 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Agreed, completely bush league. That is Monday night softball kind of stuff.
I've changed my mechanics and now I throw over 100.

by Brad D on May 31, 2007 2:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Sounds like typical A-Rod.  If someone did that while I was pitching he would get one in his ear the next time up.  He can yell but to yell out I got it, just shows how little class he has.  I hope he had a good time in Toronto because he is not going to be having a very comfortable home life from here on out.  Scum thats what he is.
Champion of the Kelly Shoppach for Catcher campaign.

by E5 on May 31, 2007 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
And his comments after the game were completely hogwash as well. He claims to have said Ha! after rounding 3rd base, this was clearly not the case based on the replays.

Also, he claims he hears much worse when trying to catch foul pop-ups near the opposing team's dugout. Well duh, usually, the SS or C are not right behind you trying to make that catch. Not to mention most of the jeering is probably coming from the fans behind the dugout and not the players themselves.

by talonk on May 31, 2007 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
wasn't it a-rod who tried to bitch slap the ball out of a guy's glove when he was running down the 1st base line not too long ago?

by Brick. on May 31, 2007 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Yep, that's the same guy.  Bronson Arroyo in the ALCS.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on May 31, 2007 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
should be good times when clemens arrives to start throwing broken bats at people again...

by Brick. on May 31, 2007 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Actually I'm kinda envious of ARod - that stripper looked pretty hot.  And fellas let me let you in on a little secret - pro athletes fool around - a lot.
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on May 31, 2007 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Are you kidding me, her arms were bigger then A-Frauds.
Champion of the Kelly Shoppach for Catcher campaign.

by E5 on May 31, 2007 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
In what sense is A-Rod a fraud?  Or is that just another of those unfunny meaningless nicknames?

by Jay on May 31, 2007 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
We musta seen different pictures - the one I saw it wasn't her arms that were big.
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on May 31, 2007 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
i have to admit that if he played for anyone but the Yankees i would think that was pretty clever.

by nctribefan on May 30, 2007 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Oooh. Speaking of the Murder City, the Tiggers lost tonight!

by ploni on May 30, 2007 10:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Damn, seems like it was a great game... anyone care to give me a quick breakdown? I had to move back home today :(

Oh, and I officially dub tomorrow Destroy Detroit Day 2

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on May 30, 2007 10:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Dice-K: Boston's $100 million mail-order bride, Cleveland's cheap date... with benefits.

The Cobra: throwing strikes... deadly Cobra strikes.

Shoppach: best backup catcher in baseball?

Tribe bullpen: apparently functional.

Grady and Pronk: encouraging signs.

by nctribefan on May 31, 2007 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I spent 8 hrs today sanding and refinishing a wood floor so I missed the first five innings. Nice job by Mastny and Fultz. I did have one question, why do we need nicknames for everyone? A nickname is only good when it is coined, not forced. At least in my opinion.
I've changed my mechanics and now I throw over 100.

by Brad D on May 30, 2007 11:48 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Nicknames work particularly well for players who are mediocre and/or generic.  For good players, it had better be fantastic and smooth.  It's not like Grady needs a nickname.  Or C.C.  "Pronk", on the other hand, sounds just right.

by dgcambridge on May 31, 2007 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Absolutely agree and I'll take it one step further. If the last name is 2 syllables or less, no nickname should be allowed.

by NickFantana on May 31, 2007 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
By that standard we would have to jettison "Pronk", "J-Barf", "Gonnie Garko", "Sleepy Kitten", "Cobra", and, perhaps the worst blow of all, "Big League Choo".  Heresy!

by Jackdaw on May 31, 2007 3:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
One of these things is not like the others.

by dgcambridge on May 31, 2007 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
One more thing I want to add:

Dice-K, for all the hype, is never going to be the "intimidator" he was portrayed as in coming to America. He might end up being a very good pitcher, maybe even a great one, but intimidating pitchers in the MLB are guys who say "possible no hitter" every time out. Guys like Clemens, Pedro, etc-a lot of K's and a lot of power.

Dice-K might end up being great, but he's cut vaguely more from the Paul Byrd mold than the Pedro Martinez mold. He's only had one start this year where he gave up 3 hits and other than that he's given up at least 5 every game. Before tonight he was averaging 6.2 hits/start and 6.4 K's/start. His K/9 is pretty impressive but not eye popping incredible. He's a weird mix of getting K's and giving up hits but the result is a guy who can give up hits and walks in bunches even as he's pitching alright. That's not how we think of Randy Johnson.  

In summary, he just pitches way too much to contact to ever be a "dominant" appearing pitcher. He might be able to end up being dominant in actuality but he's never going to look that way, in my opinion. He's "crafty" not "overpowering." And in that sense, I don't think he intimidates anybody. We might think he'll beat us but nobody's thinking "This guy is going to make us look stupid."

Obviously, he's still "young", he's still "new" and he could turn into something totally different. But c'mon, if he was ever going to strike out a ton of guys and not give up hits wouldn't it be his first time through?

by afh4 on May 31, 2007 12:14 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Nobody thought he was going to be Clemens or Pedro. But he is no worse than top 10 in the AL and at best, top 5.

by Joe. on May 31, 2007 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Well that would be a prediction.  Because it is certainly not true now.  His ERA+ is 100.  If you want to look at VORP, he is 24th among AL starters (cutting off at 35 innings).  Twenty-fourth.

by dgcambridge on May 31, 2007 1:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
First off, I don't know how you can reasonably think he's top 10 in the AL. THT puts him at 19 in PRC, before tonight. As for top 5, I don't see any rational argument.

His FIP is top 15 before tonight but again, not even close to top 5.

As for expectations, my perception of the media perception was certainly that he was supposed to be cut from the mould of Clemens and Martinez, though probably not as good. All of the articles on him involved unbelievable hype about his ability to go deep in games and strike ou a ton of batters with this dazzling array of pitches.

See this article, where it's stated that Matsuzaka will be disappointed if he's not in the contention for the Cy Young, which he isn't right now, he's compared to Clemens as a rookie, and then he's compared to Greg Maddux in his prime. C'mon. Expectations for many uneducated fans were that this guy would be absolutely incredible and he hasn't been.

See here
where Mike Greenberg picks him for the Cy Young.

See here where Curt Schilling directly compares Dice-K to Pedro.

See here where Simmons uses the phrase "Japanes Pedro."

I'm sure there are a million more articles like this. That took me about 5 minutes. Regardless of how incredibly smart you are and you knew better, the media portrayed Dice-K as a front line, intimidating as hell, shut down starter and that's what the casual fan expected. He's not that right now.  

by afh4 on May 31, 2007 1:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I said at best top 5.

Here are the guys I think are better than him:
Halladay
Schilling
Bonderman
Sabathia
Santana
Escobar
Lackey
Hernandez

That makes him top 10 to me. Haren's LOB percentages are flukishly high. Meche is a fluke (obviously). Blanton's never posted K numbers like this before so I'm skeptical.

The point is Matsuzaka might have been overrhyped but only if you are calling him the Japanese version of, in my opinion, the best pitcher of all-time. He's not that. But he's still damn amazing.

by Joe. on May 31, 2007 2:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
But at this time the guys you list are better than him. You can just make a projection and say that, because of that projection, he is top 10. Right now he isn't, no matter how you slice it. Carmona, Byrd, Bedard, Beckett, Verlander, Bonderman... the list goes on, are all better than him. Right now, he is riding a wave of hype and little else.
I've changed my mechanics and now I throw over 100.

by Brad D on May 31, 2007 2:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Right but guys like Carmona and Byrd just aren't better than him. Not even close. Why does it matter what has happened after 2 months? You have to look at the bigger picture and Matsuzaka's stats will even out.

by Joe. on May 31, 2007 2:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
My argument is that, based on the empirical evidence we have on hand, Byrd and Carmona are better than him. You may think that Matsuzaka will be better or that his numbers will even out but that can't be proven. What can be proven by the factual record is the the pitchers above are all currently better than DM.

Re-reading that makes it sound really condescending. Not my intent. I just mean that it is hard to make a case that someone is "better" when all the numbers show he is not. I do agree that, stuff wise, he is. But then so is Kbrera.

I've changed my mechanics and now I throw over 100.

by Brad D on May 31, 2007 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Don't compare Cabrera to Matsuzaka, The Japanese leagues are considered a step up above AAA so he is more proven. Everyone knew there would be an adjustment period and all things considered, he is doing better than I thought.

We'll have to resume this convo in August, I suppose.

by Joe. on May 31, 2007 3:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
I wasn't comparing him, I was saying that in terms of stuff, Cabrera is also "better" than the guys listed but right now he is not as good. Agree to disagree, I guess.
I've changed my mechanics and now I throw over 100.

by Brad D on May 31, 2007 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Just a beautiful, beautiful night to be at Fenway.  Being there for the Fultz-Ortiz at-bat was amazing: everyone on their feet, just minutes of noise and anticipation.  I'd put it down as my top moment of the month.

by dgcambridge on May 31, 2007 1:03 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
It was nice to see Travis go the other way with the ball and Grady hitting with some power!  Maybe this is the game that we will look at in August and say "this is when the bats woke up"

by View from 171 on May 31, 2007 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
If the bats haven't woken up and we are leading the league in runs scored now, then I would say other teams are in serious trouble.

by Roger Dorn on May 31, 2007 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

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