Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Cleveland at Boston, 7:05 PM (WKYC/ESPN2)
Starting Pitchers:
Boston: Daisuke Matsuzaka (4.43 ERA, 30 PRC)
Cleveland: The Cobra (3.81 ERA, 21 PRC)
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I love the clever names! :-)
I just have to say that I love the clever names:
The Cobra (Paul Byrd)
Sleepy Kitten (Cliff Lee)
Can we come up with 3 other appropriate nicknames for Sowers, Sabathia, and Carmona? :-)
Re: I love the clever names! :-)
Sowers? I have no idea, but anything that is crafty, lefty, etc. should work just fine.
CC - hmmmmm .... I like something that works in his batting prowess ... Pronk-lite? Nah .... no clue ...
I forgot about Dr. Faust - thanks! :-)
Somehow, I forgot about Dr. Faust - duh! Must have had a brain cramp! :-)
I guess we have to include Westbrook when he returns too - I don't know if "Jake The Snake" works (plus the fact that Jake Plummer has/had that nickname - I think he retired from the NFL though after the Broncos wouldn't resign him, didn't he? Not sure.)
Re: I forgot about Dr. Faust - thanks! :-)
Re: I love the clever names! :-)
CC "Sizzler" Sabathia (both for his fastball and his buffet loving figure
by maximize22 on May 30, 2007 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
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I was thinking a couple weeks ago that "Lucky" would be a good nickname for Sowers, since nobody can figure out how he's getting anybody out (when he is). Plus, somebody has to be Lucky, right?
Not sure if either of those will stick. Like I said, you can't force these things.
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by nctribefan on May 31, 2007 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
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His name is Fausto Carmona. That name is way cooler than most nicknames.
Dr. Faust is a poor nickname. It doesn't mean anything and isn't funny. See how it suffers in comparison with The Cobra and Sleepy Kitten.
To me, he is, simply: Fausto.
If you want, his nickname can just be his first name in italics. Fausto "Fausto" Carmona.
In general, I would say, you can't force these things, you just have to let them happen and spot them when they do. Bad nicknames are annoying, and we don't need to nickname everybody.
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The connection being, Fausto has made some kind of deal with the devil to be an awesome pitcher. Or, more specifically, to retire endless batters without recording strikeous.
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I mean, should we not have standards?
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by homelytourist on May 31, 2007 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
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But I still think he COULD be a Jamie Moyers type of pitcher that is worth keeping around.
If Adam Miller was not inured, he'd be up in the bigs after the all-star break.
by SpringTrainingFun on May 30, 2007 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions
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I'm pretty sure Koplove is going to be sent down when we bring up another position player (since we only have 8 BP guys because we were semi-short handed). I was depending on Miller (Matt, that is) to be himself once he came off the DL and secure the 7th BP spot, but he's been struggling at AAA and I'm not so sure he's worthy of a callup. Perez could be a great fit for the 7th spot, but at the same time, do we want Sowers at AAA?
I heard yesterday that lefties are hitting like .150 against Sowers. Sowers doesn't walk very many guys. It sounds like he could be a great lefty out of the pen.
by one size more on May 30, 2007 6:10 PM EDT reply actions
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I think many see Sowers as a starter, not as a
Hello one size more,
Most would not think of Sowers as a bullpen guy; while LH have not hit well against him this year, normally with bullpen relievers, you want a guy who has a decent to strong K ratio - that guy isn't Sowers, certainly not at this point (and Sowers probably will never have a high K ratio anyway; maybe a decent K ratio at best some day.) Sowers' command hasn't been quite as sharp as last year, and with his very limited margin for error, he'd have to be on right away coming out of the bullpen, especially if there are runners already on base.
That's why more have been intrigued by the thought of having Cliff Lee shift to the bullpen - he may regain some of his lost velocity, plus the fact that Lee seems to pitch well for 2-4 innings, then suddenly just loses it. If he only has to face a lineup once, he could be quite effective. However, with the amount of money he's being paid and his past success as a starter, it's doubtful he'll be changed into a reliever any time soon.
But between the two, I'd think Lee would be likelier to see the bullpen at some point than Sowers would - Sowers seems more like that #4/#5 starter who fills the back-end of a solid rotation. If Sowers did enter a bullpen, it'd probably be more as a long reliever, someone along the lines of Kirk Saarloos (a #5/long reliever soft-tossing RH pitcher.)
Just my 2 cents. :-)
Re: I think many see Sowers as a starter,
That being said, Sowers in his last two starts has looked better than Lee has in every start except for Lee's complete game, so who knows. All I know is, Westbrook looked good in his last two pre-injury games, and we just extended him, so he pretty much has a guaranteed rotaiton spot upon his return, and at this point, there is NO WAY we can send down Fausto. We did it once and it almost cost us dearly (if Westbrook never gets injured, we lose all of those awesome Carmona starts).
One of them has to either go to the pen or AAA, and the pen certainly seems more likely.
by one size more on May 30, 2007 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I think the Indians see Sowers as more of a
Just my 2 cents. :-)
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Re: I think the Indians see Sowers as more of a
I look at this way:
Both are lefties with garbage stuff and terrible K rates. Might as well take the guy who isn't a ridiculous flyball pitcher.
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So... STO is showing poker. And, because the game is supposed to be on STO, I'm blacked out on ESPN2 and getting ESPNNews.
... wtf.
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by maximize22 on May 30, 2007 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions
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Where's the grit?
Trot with a very poor AB!
Darn - that was exactly what I hoped he WOULDN'T do. Why did he have to jump on the first pitch, and on a questionable pitch he could drive to the OF?
It would have been very nice to play from out in front against them for the first time this series. Trot's not looking too good against RHP lately either.
Meant to say...
I meant to say,
"Why did he have to jump on the first pitch, and on a questionable pitch THAT he PROBABLY COULDN'T drive to the OF?"
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Is he paying too much attention to his winner?
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by homelytourist on May 30, 2007 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
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Hey, Theo, how about the $143,026,214 that's your 2007 player payroll?
If the Tribe or any other team had money like this, including what Boston has spent on some of the stupidest player contracts around, they'd be in first place, 11 1/2 games out, too.
Man, I hate the East Boast teams.
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by tborish on May 30, 2007 8:12 PM EDT reply actions
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I guess managing to get swept for the season in both Fenway Park and Yankee Stadium would be some kind of marker for the season.
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As a note we have batter k's for a cat.
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by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 8:46 PM EDT reply actions
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by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 8:47 PM EDT reply actions
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Then again, Trot it could be because Nixon hits a double.
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by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 9:00 PM EDT reply actions
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by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 9:01 PM EDT reply actions
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by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
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by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 9:06 PM EDT reply actions
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by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
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Finally.
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by new zealand tribe fan on May 30, 2007 9:06 PM EDT reply actions
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ERA 4.43 (league average 4.25, according to Yahoo)
WHIP 1.24 (league average 1.38)
I don't know where to find more advanced statistics like RC and ERA+, but those look pretty average to me.
All I'm saying is that if I were spending $100 million on a guy, I'd want better results than that.
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by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 9:09 PM EDT reply actions
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by E5 on May 30, 2007 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions
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by E5 on May 30, 2007 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions
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- Garko has thrived there in the past.
- It'd make the lineup deeper by giving Garko more pitches to hit.
- It's the same concept that the #2 hitter will see better pitches and thus do better.
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by E5 on May 30, 2007 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions
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Last year I noticed that, anytime we were on national TV, the announcers said that Eduardo Perez is the son of Tony Perez. And I mean every time, maybe 2 or 3 times a game. Now I've noticed this year, the same happens with Josh (and Jesse) Barfield. How has this not been discussed?
Shapiro must have traded for him this offseason to fill the quota of sons of former major leaguers! This is the beginning of a new baseball philosophy!
Next year, we'll get Koby Clemens, Ken Griffey Jr., and Tony Pena Jr.
I love it. Notice it next time.
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by E5 on May 30, 2007 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
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by jakesinger777 on May 30, 2007 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions
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by homelytourist on May 30, 2007 9:37 PM EDT reply actions
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Awww, here comes Wedge! Dammit, leave him in, Wedge!
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by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 9:39 PM EDT reply actions
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by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 9:42 PM EDT reply actions
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I just think every dude on the Indians should know, since I broke up with Fernando, I'm looking for a new baseball boyfriend. Feel free to impress me, everyone.
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by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 9:43 PM EDT reply actions
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by new zealand tribe fan on May 30, 2007 9:44 PM EDT reply actions
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by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 9:44 PM EDT reply actions
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Fultz no Tie game here we go.
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And he's bringing in Fultz?!?!?
F.
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by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 9:47 PM EDT reply actions
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by E5 on May 30, 2007 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions
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Beards... they grow on you.
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Fultz has an ERA under 2?
Having said that, I'd love for Fultz to make me look like a jerk.
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by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 9:49 PM EDT reply actions
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by E5 on May 30, 2007 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions
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by E5 on May 30, 2007 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions
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by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions
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by Mark @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 9:52 PM EDT reply actions
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by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 9:53 PM EDT reply actions
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by drerikbrady on May 31, 2007 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
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Just kidding...maybe this is our year.
by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 9:54 PM EDT reply actions
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No, no, no need for you to scroll up to check...
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Secondly when is Shoppach going to be our starting catcher. VMart should be moved to first or traded.
by E5 on May 30, 2007 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions
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by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 9:55 PM EDT reply actions
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by Mark @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 9:56 PM EDT reply actions
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by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 10:02 PM EDT reply actions
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by new zealand tribe fan on May 30, 2007 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions
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That SB by Sizemore comes in real handy now. Wow - just wow.
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by new zealand tribe fan on May 30, 2007 10:03 PM EDT reply actions
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by LeftyCatcher on May 30, 2007 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions
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I am shocked since ESPN hardly ever shows or talkes about either team!
by Mark @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 10:08 PM EDT reply actions
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by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
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by Mark @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
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by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
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by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 10:12 PM EDT reply actions
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START SHOPPACH
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But then again, I'm a jerk.
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Or are we trying to emulate the Dallas Cowboys with myriad blues?
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by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 10:16 PM EDT reply actions
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We have a chance to go to the WS this year. Get rid of our dead wood now.
Start with Hernandez.
by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 10:18 PM EDT reply actions
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How many runs can Uh Oh Oldberto give up:
2, so far.
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by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 10:20 PM EDT reply actions
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by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
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by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions
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by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions
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by homelytourist on May 30, 2007 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
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by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 10:32 PM EDT reply actions
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by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on May 30, 2007 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
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by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 10:36 PM EDT reply actions
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BTW- Jim Donovan on Channel 3 is awful in the booth. LIke nails on a chalkboard.
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by homelytourist on May 30, 2007 10:36 PM EDT reply actions
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by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 10:39 PM EDT reply actions
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by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
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by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions
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by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions
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Road: (1) classic gray top (Cleveland) and gray bottom; or (2) "special" blue top (Indians) and gray bottom
Home: (1) classic white top (Indians) and white bottom; (2) those sleeveless whites with the blue undersleeve and white bottoms; and (3) the "special" blue top (Indians) and gray bottom.
The custom always was to proclaim the city (e.g., Cleveland) on the road and the nickname (e.g., Indians) at home.
My recollection is that somewhere in the mid 90's heyday (probably '94) is when the special blue script "Indians" jersey made its debut. It was originally intended to be just that - a "special" home jersey, typically used for Sunday matinees and other "special" dates. Sometime in those middle 90's, however, the Tribe for some reason (I think there was one - to stop bad luck on the road or whatever - but I don't remember the specifics) wore those special home blues with the script "indians" on the road, thus bucking the custom, and they have continued to do so periodically ever since.
As an additional aside, I remember seeing something on TV or hearing on the radio this season that the game's starting pitcher decides what uniform combo he wants the team to wear for a given game consistent with the options above.
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by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 10:43 PM EDT reply actions
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What an a-hole.
by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 10:46 PM EDT reply actions
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by TribeLoverInNewYork on May 30, 2007 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions
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by homelytourist on May 30, 2007 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions
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by Turkmenbashi on May 30, 2007 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
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by homelytourist on May 30, 2007 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions
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by Turkmenbashi on May 30, 2007 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions
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I'm much more into a guy doing that then being obsessed with "getting his uniform dirty."
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by Turkmenbashi on May 30, 2007 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
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by E5 on May 31, 2007 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
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Also, he claims he hears much worse when trying to catch foul pop-ups near the opposing team's dugout. Well duh, usually, the SS or C are not right behind you trying to make that catch. Not to mention most of the jeering is probably coming from the fans behind the dugout and not the players themselves.
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by E5 on May 31, 2007 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
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by nctribefan on May 30, 2007 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions
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Oh, and I officially dub tomorrow Destroy Detroit Day 2
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The Cobra: throwing strikes... deadly Cobra strikes.
Shoppach: best backup catcher in baseball?
Tribe bullpen: apparently functional.
Grady and Pronk: encouraging signs.
by nctribefan on May 31, 2007 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
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by dgcambridge on May 31, 2007 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
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Dice-K, for all the hype, is never going to be the "intimidator" he was portrayed as in coming to America. He might end up being a very good pitcher, maybe even a great one, but intimidating pitchers in the MLB are guys who say "possible no hitter" every time out. Guys like Clemens, Pedro, etc-a lot of K's and a lot of power.
Dice-K might end up being great, but he's cut vaguely more from the Paul Byrd mold than the Pedro Martinez mold. He's only had one start this year where he gave up 3 hits and other than that he's given up at least 5 every game. Before tonight he was averaging 6.2 hits/start and 6.4 K's/start. His K/9 is pretty impressive but not eye popping incredible. He's a weird mix of getting K's and giving up hits but the result is a guy who can give up hits and walks in bunches even as he's pitching alright. That's not how we think of Randy Johnson.
In summary, he just pitches way too much to contact to ever be a "dominant" appearing pitcher. He might be able to end up being dominant in actuality but he's never going to look that way, in my opinion. He's "crafty" not "overpowering." And in that sense, I don't think he intimidates anybody. We might think he'll beat us but nobody's thinking "This guy is going to make us look stupid."
Obviously, he's still "young", he's still "new" and he could turn into something totally different. But c'mon, if he was ever going to strike out a ton of guys and not give up hits wouldn't it be his first time through?
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His FIP is top 15 before tonight but again, not even close to top 5.
As for expectations, my perception of the media perception was certainly that he was supposed to be cut from the mould of Clemens and Martinez, though probably not as good. All of the articles on him involved unbelievable hype about his ability to go deep in games and strike ou a ton of batters with this dazzling array of pitches.
See this article, where it's stated that Matsuzaka will be disappointed if he's not in the contention for the Cy Young, which he isn't right now, he's compared to Clemens as a rookie, and then he's compared to Greg Maddux in his prime. C'mon. Expectations for many uneducated fans were that this guy would be absolutely incredible and he hasn't been.
See here
where Mike Greenberg picks him for the Cy Young.
See here where Curt Schilling directly compares Dice-K to Pedro.
See here where Simmons uses the phrase "Japanes Pedro."
I'm sure there are a million more articles like this. That took me about 5 minutes. Regardless of how incredibly smart you are and you knew better, the media portrayed Dice-K as a front line, intimidating as hell, shut down starter and that's what the casual fan expected. He's not that right now.
Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Here are the guys I think are better than him:
Halladay
Schilling
Bonderman
Sabathia
Santana
Escobar
Lackey
Hernandez
That makes him top 10 to me. Haren's LOB percentages are flukishly high. Meche is a fluke (obviously). Blanton's never posted K numbers like this before so I'm skeptical.
The point is Matsuzaka might have been overrhyped but only if you are calling him the Japanese version of, in my opinion, the best pitcher of all-time. He's not that. But he's still damn amazing.
Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Re-reading that makes it sound really condescending. Not my intent. I just mean that it is hard to make a case that someone is "better" when all the numbers show he is not. I do agree that, stuff wise, he is. But then so is Kbrera.
Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
We'll have to resume this convo in August, I suppose.
Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
Re: Game Thread: May 30, 2007
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