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Gutz called up

For those of us lamenting the lack of an obvious platoon partner for Trot...

Franklin Gutierrez has been recalled from Buffalo and Mike Koplove has been optioned back to make room for him on the roster.

It does not appear that Koplove had to go through waivers to return to Buffalo, a point that had been briefly mentioned.

Here's the link.

0 recs | Comment 40 comments

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Re: Gutz called up
I really like Gutz.  I hope they play him more than they have in the past.

by APV on May 31, 2007 2:35 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
On STO yesterday they mentioned the point that Detroit has some tough lefties (I think in the 'pen they have 3 of 'em) And Maroth is going on Friday or saturday as well.

Hopefully they use him in those situations instead of letting Trot or Dellucci face the lefties.

by hans on May 31, 2007 2:37 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
I can't believe I am saying this but:

I probably would have preferred Francisco only because he is older, has proven all that he needs to, and has shown much better plate discipline than Gutierrez. Obvioulsy Gutierrez is the better prospect but he's walking very little. Maybe Shelton can work on him with that? I mean look what he did with Grady, anything's possible.

by Joe. on May 31, 2007 3:06 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
I also like Francisco and see it as a toss up between the two. Gutz may have a little more speed and a stronger arm, but I agree that BF's plate discipline is at least a little better, despite some improvement this year by Gutz. Both appear to have about 25HR/year power.

BTW, Gutz struck out less than half as often as Brad Snyder (20 vs 44) in just about the same numbers of ABs. Snyder's the one whose plate discipline has killed his career.

by kov on May 31, 2007 3:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
I'm with you - I think Franciso is probably the better hitter right now. Further, I'm not sure how much better of a prospect Gutz is at the moment anyway - as you mention, the plate discipline is below average, the BA is unsustainably high, and an ISO of .140 is not a good thing.

by Thommy on May 31, 2007 3:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
isn't gutz a little better defender too?

by Brick. on May 31, 2007 3:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
Gutz may have better speed/arm, but I recall that one of our posters who saw he play said he isn't aggressive.

by kov on May 31, 2007 3:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
He always just loafs around for the ball in the field, with no sense of urgency.

Wedge called him out for it last year (a rare call-out by Wedgie) and Gutierrez showed the same indifference to the comment as he does in the field.  He responded with the old, "I don't know what he's talking about...I always play hard."

Whether it's real or perceived laziness, it's maddening to watch him let a ball bounce in the gap, slowly approach it, and take his time getting it in.  Even more maddening when you consider the skill set he has in the OF.

by The DiaTriber on May 31, 2007 3:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
Sorry, but I have to say it ... I smell bullshit.

by Jay on May 31, 2007 3:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
Not to go all "seen it with my own eyes" as it's not something that's easily proven with hard facts, but having sat in the RF Mezzanine for the better part of the last 5 seasons, Gutierrez is not the defensive whiz that he is made out to be.

Whether that's due to what just LOOKS like an indifference in the field, an opinion from someone who watched Alex Escobar traipse around RF, or BS is up for debate.

by The DiaTriber on Jun 1, 2007 3:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
having sat in the RF Mezzanine for the better part of the last 5 seasons

Fair enough.

But Escobar was awesome.

by Jay on Jun 1, 2007 10:24 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
You have any evidence of this happening?

by Joe. on May 31, 2007 4:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
You ever been around a guy so athletic it doesn't seem like he's trying? He can't make himself look like he's trying. He just looks slower than he is because of his grace, reacts so sublimely you can't even tell, etc.

by afh4 on May 31, 2007 4:21 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
I can't tell if you're kidding or not. Either way I will laugh.

by Joe. on May 31, 2007 4:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
As a result, I will laugh.

by Thommy on May 31, 2007 4:39 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
He was just stirring up the BS Jay was smelling.

by kov on May 31, 2007 4:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
It was I who thought he had to pass waivers. My bad. I have no idea how many options he had left. Plus, his contract stated he needed to be called up by a certain time before being let go, so I thought maybe that also influenced the waivers claim. Am sure our roster guru Jay can clear all this up for us.

by talonk on May 31, 2007 4:24 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
I'm shocked he had an option left.  Great news, though -- that's probably one of the reasons the Indians wanted to keep him.  Given the ups and downs of the season, they obviously value a reliever with an option more than a reliever without one.

Koplove's deadline may only have applied to the 40-man roster, but in any event, they called him up, which meets the requirement.  Major league contracts aren't allowed to have keep-in-the-majors requirements beyond the standard CBA rules.

by Jay on May 31, 2007 4:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
Just a guess, but this has to be his last option year then?

by talonk on May 31, 2007 4:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
It probably was a bit of a tossup between Gutz and Ben, they are both playing very well. But there are a couple reasons to choose El Guti:

  • He has 140 more ML at bats than Ben.
  • He generally has better splits against lefties.
  • He's been playing a lot of RF, which is where he's likely to play in a platoon.

I just hope he plays! Wedge has pushed the "grit over splits" thing with Nixon too far, IMO.

by mcrose on May 31, 2007 4:27 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
..and missed an opportunity to pinch-hit FG for Nixon last night in the 6th (I think it was) against Byrdak, a lefty.  

by MTF on Jun 1, 2007 9:47 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
I'd like to suggest a few other reasons why the Indians went with Gutierrez over Francisco.

First, the position that needs filled is the one earmarked for Franklin: right-handed right fielder. He's replacing Casey Blake, not de facto reserve outfielder Jason Michaels (who, it can be argued, is getting the shaft on playing time as of yet). If Franklin is up to this job, it's as good a time as any for him to start proving as much.

Second -- and this reasoning may also apply to Stanford -- Francisco has trade-bait written all over him. In view of the fact that he's having a solid year, it would be bad form to promote him and have his tradeability suffer in the event that he fails to adjust to major-league pitching. I realize other FOs are capable of calculating MLE's and are unlikely to be swayed by a 30 AB big-league sample size, but I still Buffalo is the safer place to maintain Ben's value. Insofar as Franklin doesn't seem to be on the block, you may as well keep breaking him in.

Moreover, if we do need Ben later this year, it would be great for his confidence to know that he has absolutely nothing left to prove in AAA, wouldn't it?

by fleerdon on Jun 1, 2007 9:56 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
Just to quibble a little bit....BF is as much of a right-handed right fielder as FG. Actually, FG has played a lot of CF and his best value may be there, but we already have some other guy in CF. .

Either guy can and has played all three OF positions.

Sorry for the empty post below...I hit the wrong button.

by kov on Jun 1, 2007 10:53 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
Gutierrez is in the same boat with Andy Marte - after this year, they both have to stay in the majors. That tightens the timeline for making an ultimate decision on him - do they use him as a trade chip, or groom him to take over for Trot Nixon?

Now if Francisco was hitting much better than Gutierrez, options might not have come into play. But since they've put up similar numbers, you better believe that they did in this situation.  

by Ryan on Jun 1, 2007 12:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
Yea, Gutierrez is just the flat out better prospect. If they put up similar numbers, you are always going to go with the 5-tool guy.

I really hope he is our starting RF in 2008. I would love that.

by Joe. on Jun 1, 2007 12:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
your signature should read:

"Out with the old. In with the new."

by Brick. on Jun 1, 2007 12:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
I don't pretend to have remembered that Franklin was out of options as Ryan pointed out. I'm just tired of his being called up not to play; he's having a good year and I want to see what he can do.

I also don't know what to make, exactly, of the differences between Franklin and Ben as players, except to say that I think Ben is about 2 years older. For Franklin to hit his way out of AAA this year strikes me as a pretty normal timeline for a major league starter. That Ben has not yet been given a big-league spot suggests either a serious screw job or the Indians knowing something I don't.

Franklin is also a legitimate defensive replacement for Grady Sizemore. The reports I've heard about Ben's defense indicate that he is merely passable in center. Conceivably, with Franklin on the 25-man, Wedge could DH Sizemore every now and then; insofar as Wedge has shown a strong reluctance to use Jason Michaels in center, I assume this is not an option presently.

It should not be interpreted from this post that I dislike Ben Francisco. I've seen him play; he's a gifted athlete and will probably have a decent career. But the mere fact that he is where he is suggests to me that his career is less likely to be with the Indians.

by fleerdon on Jun 1, 2007 5:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
I'm with kov here.  I don't understand how any of that distinguishes the two.  Maybe the only reason that Gutz is up, is that he's been up already this year.

by dgcambridge on Jun 1, 2007 11:30 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
so has franciso, hasn't he?

by Brick. on Jun 1, 2007 11:38 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
Yes, Ben was up for one game and zero ABs, if you call that "up*"

* very small sample size.

by kov on Jun 1, 2007 3:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
Gutierrez better start tonight.

by Joe. on Jun 1, 2007 12:12 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
i think he will.  wedge had said he wants to get him in there this weekend to rest one of the regulars on this long stretch with no off days.

got to think it's tonight with the lefty on the mound.  you'd think micheals, sizemore, gutz will be the outfield tonight...

by Brick. on Jun 1, 2007 12:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
I sure hope so.  Otherwise, this platoon stuff is starting to sound like a bunch of crap.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jun 1, 2007 12:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
This won't sound good for Francisco, but he reminds me somewhat of Jody Gerut: contact hitters with decent power and good speed. Even their minor league numbers are similar - good, but not spectacular - at .295/.387/.457 (Gerut) and .289/.354/.458 (Francisco, going into this year).

They are about the same size and both went to college in the West: Gerut/Stanford & BF/UCLA (for whatever that's worth).

I liked Gerut and I'm not sure what caused the wheels to fall off, perhaps injury(s)?

by kov on Jun 1, 2007 3:44 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Gutz called up
Gerut overachieved in his rookie year.  He wasn't even on the Top 30 prospect list coming into that year.  He had injuries and fundamentally did not have the talent to be an everyday player.

Francisco is similar, you're right, but hopefully healthier and less of a clubhouse lawyer.

by Jay on Jun 1, 2007 10:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No offense, but Francisco has hit for much
more consistent power than Gerut ever did.

Hello kov,

I can see some similarities, but also enough differences to think that Francisco won't become the next Gerut.  

Francisco has hit 10+ HRs in 3 different seasons (and hit 7 in his comeback year from injury, 2005.)  Gerut hadn't hit over 10 HRs a season at any stop in the Indians' organization, only doing it in the Rockies' organization with High-A Salem back in 1999.  

Gerut had an injury problem (not sure if it was ankle or wrist) that didn't help him, but also, if the reports are correct, Gerut decided to adjust his stance and swing after his great rookie season to try to get a jump on pitchers adjusting to him in his sophomore season, which seemed to mess up his swing and timing, leading to him pulling off the ball.  It seemed his balance was off as well, and he never was able to recapture that form from 2003, at times even looking like he refused to make adjustments, just going with the same approach at the plate every time up.

Therefore, Francisco won't necessarily turn out like Gerut for the reasons I mentioned above.

Shapiro is talking about the two of them right now on the Indians' telecast - how the Indians decided between the two:

Gutierrez - out of options for next year and we need to find out some things about him; come far in his plate approach.  His defense is clearly better than Benny's, but Benny has more power.  Both guys have a lot to offer, but they chose to go with Gutierrez.

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Jun 1, 2007 8:31 PM EDT   0 recs

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