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Kelly Shoppach

Kelly Shoppach is currently hitting 386/462/596.
I know that there are concerns about sample size (57 ABs on the year), but his last month's stats (thru May 15) are even more ridiculous.  I was at the game tonight and he looked smooth and comfortable at the plate.

There's obviously no reason to expect him to continue on this pace, but he certainly seems to have things together right now.

Shoppach also brings some nice value defensively.

With Garko slumping and Shoppach hitting, has he earned the opportunity to catch more than on Byrd's turn (with Vic playing a little more 1B)?  
I'm not talking about a wholesale revision of the lineup, just maybe catching twice a turn instead of every fifth day?

There's really not much more that the guy can do to earn himself more PT, is there?

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Re: Kelly Shoppach
I'm not totally against it. Kelly's earned it, and perhaps Garko could benefit from a day or two off here and there.
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 11, 2007 11:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
i'm not saying the solution is to play him every day, but i actually think garko's problem is days off.  i think the interleague play thing bothered him - he was quoted as being frustrated about not being in there.  then when he is in the game he tries to do too much.  tonight, i think after each failed at bat, he slammed his bat on the ground.  i think he's pressing, to the detriment of his at bats.  like in the past when he was trying to 'prove' himself to the indians in buffalo.

by Brick. on Jun 11, 2007 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
Interesting... I did see him slamming his bat down after those at-bats. It's clear he does try to do too much in those kind of situations, but is everyday play the answer? Maybe. Maybe it's just a matter of maturing and learning to accept his role in terms of what's best for the team. He doesn't seem to me like a guy who needs to play every day for his talent to shine, but maybe just needs to get his head together. I could be completely wrong, but I don't think the extra occasional off-day here and there will hurt him too much.
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 11, 2007 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
My admittedly BBTN-esque take is that Garko got real lucky last year/the beginning of this year and now, like a lot of fans, can't understand why he's not that good all the time. It's frustrating him and he's pressing.

And that's the end of my armchair nonsense analysis.

by afh4 on Jun 11, 2007 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
That's a possibility. I'll admit I thought/think Garko was/is going to pan out into something great.
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 12, 2007 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
right, like i said, i'm Not saying that playing him every day is the answer at all - just that it seems to be a symptom of a possible problem... in fact it can't be the answer.  he needs to figure out the do balance things out like your saying, regardless of playing time..

by Brick. on Jun 12, 2007 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
Word to the wise, Kelly's limited ABs in the majors indicate he's got a pretty gross split. He hasn't hit righties in the past. It hasn't been true this year, however.

Second word to the wise, Shoppach's BABIP is .459 this year.

by afh4 on Jun 11, 2007 11:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
seems to me like shoppach is getting used 'just right' as it's maximizing his effectiveness in a way.  i think if it ain't broke....

like andrew's saying, you can't ignore history - like i didn't think trot should suddenly face every lefty after having 4 hits against baltimore that one day...

by Brick. on Jun 12, 2007 12:08 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
im deff willing to see shoppach instead of Garko at least for a couple days, Garko"s swing has been off lately, maybe the league already made the adjustment on him, and now is time for him to make his adjustments

by luifer5 on Jun 12, 2007 7:25 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
Garko seems like the better long-term bet, but it's really not as clear-cut as you might assume.

Looking at the minor league numbers -- the only reasonable sample we really have -- they actually are very similar.  Garko hits for 30 points higher batting average, which is significant, but Shoppach has the better walk rate and isolated power.

The two-position defensive upgrade is pretty significant, too, despite whatever strides Garko and Victor have made.

by Jay on Jun 12, 2007 11:14 AM EDT reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
I'd point out that Shoppach's strikeout rates were very high, though they did come with good power numbers for the position. And also that we're talking about 57 at-bats with an extremely high BABIP.

The ultimate question is whether Shoppach is good enough with the bat to move Victor to first on a full-time basis, especially if Hafner is re-signed. We still don't really know the answer to this question.

by Ryan on Jun 12, 2007 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
we're talking about 57 at-bats with an extremely high BABIP

I'm not talking about those at all, except to note that he isn't exactly in a funk.  I'm just saying, the comparison based on minor league numbers (plus defensive value) is closer than one might expect.

I've been saying for a while, what we really need is a lefty-hitting Garko, who could be platooned with Shoppach while Victor split positions.  I don't mind Garko in a full-time role, but like many good-not-great players, his skills have a lot more charm in a platoon.

by Jay on Jun 12, 2007 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
I've been saying for a while, what we really need is a lefty-hitting Garko, who could be platooned with Shoppach while Victor split positions.

Well, Adam Dunn is available.

by Ryan on Jun 12, 2007 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
Kind of an expensive platoon guy, but I've heard crazier.

by Jay on Jun 12, 2007 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
There's also Scott Hatteberg, if you're looking for a short-term fix. Plus, he gives the Indians a fourth catcher.

by Ryan on Jun 12, 2007 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
A healthy Aubrey in '08! (Just half-kidding)

I really like Kelly's arm, which is the main reason I'd like to see more of him behind the plate. Vic's been much better in that regard this year, but that just brings him up to acceptable. Shop's a real weapon back there.

I can see Wedge wanting to give Vic more of a break from squatting as the summer wears on, to keep him fresh for a playoff run and hopefully October. If Shop continues to do well at the plate, it'll be easier for them to justify moving Vic around.

by mcrose on Jun 12, 2007 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
It's a real luxury to have two good catchers behind the plate, each with their own pluses.  It's an area I worried about at the start of the season, but now I have complete confidence in.  We're in good shape here for now and in the future.
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on Jun 12, 2007 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
I'm not sure if you're serious about the Pickin' Machine, but I wouldn't mind that one bit.  

Side note:  Was he hurt in 05?  Seems like an awfully down year.

by nickjs21 on Jun 12, 2007 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
Eh ... seriously?  Career OPS of 768 and fairly likely to fall off a cliff, any minute now.  I have it on good authority that the 1B league average is 819.

by Jay on Jun 13, 2007 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
A player who shows excellent plate discipline is unlikely to fall off a cliff with age.  As a backup 1B, I'd take a patient hitter who sees pitches and doesn't swing at balls.  He already practices what the Indians have been preaching.

by nickjs21 on Jun 13, 2007 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
Yeah, and he's already 37, and nobody picks up a lefty hitter to be a backup 1B.  Re: his Indians-like approach, what you're saying basically is that he's a poor man's Casey Blake -- right approach, mediocre results, minimal defensive value.  Yippee.

His OPS away from that bandbox is about 705 for the past two seasons.  I like Hatteberg, but unless we had nobody to play the position, I wouldn't take him for free.

by Jay on Jun 13, 2007 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
Yeah, and he's already 37, and nobody picks up a lefty hitter to be a backup 1B.  Re: his Indians-like approach, what you're saying basically is that he's a poor man's Casey Blake

Exactly!  Oh, wait ... I see your point.

by nickjs21 on Jun 13, 2007 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
I'd love to get Dunn, and I realize you almost certainly weren't implying this, but...saying Dunn is a lefty-hitting Garko is like saying Barry Bonds is a lefty-hitting Shea Hillenbrand.

by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on Jun 12, 2007 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
Is it possible to platoon managers? Say, for instance, to sit Wedge when we're playing a right-handed manager?

by ploni on Jun 12, 2007 2:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
That BABIP would tend to scare me off. He is great defensively, though. And Garko's BABIP, while not that outrageous, has been high as well.

Last year, when Garko was swinging the bat well, I thought he should start at 1B this year. It might have been irrational exuberance.

I said this last night. A lot of people have said that we need a power hitting corner outfielder / first baseman. It's strange, really strange, that I think this might be true - EVEN though we're near the top (at the top? haven't looked in the last few days) of the league in Runs Scored.

Dellucci and Nixon have not looked good recently. History would say, IF they are used correctly, their hitting will pick up.

by Gradyforpresident on Jun 12, 2007 2:58 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
Not to get all zen about it, but every single player ever has up and down stretches, and Garko is in a down one. He's not a 1-24 kind of guy. I really think he's a .290/.380/.500 kinda guy, which is not bad at all. Not a huge power bat, but a good hitter with some pop. I think he's answered the main thing that kept him from having true value, and that's if he could handle a defensive position.

by mcrose on Jun 12, 2007 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
Not only is .290/.380/.500 not bad at all, it's the answer to all our problems.  I'd love for this to turn into reality.  In 2006, league average for first base meant .280/.352/.467

by nickjs21 on Jun 12, 2007 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
And God, if Marte's figured things out at AAA and can translate it up here, that would be WONDERFUL.

by Gradyforpresident on Jun 12, 2007 2:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
I just checked his BABIP in Buffalo this year. .266, which is abnormally low (not extremely, but definitely significant.)

by Gradyforpresident on Jun 12, 2007 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
The BABIP is nice to see but all that matters for me with Andy is:

power.

poWER.

POWER.

by afh4 on Jun 12, 2007 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
Looks like he put together a bunch of one-hit games.  I wonder why the pattern changed?  Why?  Why?

by Jay on Jun 12, 2007 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
You can be whatever you want but I choose to remain young, naive and awed by the world around me.

A complete inability to put statistics in context allows this.

by afh4 on Jun 12, 2007 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
The power is there. He needs consistent, solid contact, and a good approach. He gets that, and he's gonna be huge.

by Gradyforpresident on Jun 12, 2007 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
I agree on the small number of ABs and certainly the BABIP doesn't favor sustainability.
Again, though, he's still a young player and you really can't ask him to do anything more to get more PT.
With the slumps at the corner positions, I think now is the perfect time to give a little more of a chance.

If it doesnt work, then it doesn't work.

Thanks for your thoughts guys

by dave @ Let's Go Tribe! on Jun 12, 2007 7:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Kelly Shoppach
I wouldn't at all mind seeing Shoppach catch an extra game a week.

  1. I thought that was going to be the plan anyway.  Give Victor more rest from behind the plate.

  2. Probably an upgrade defensively, though Vic/pitchers seems to have improved in the "steals against" category.

  3. I'd let Shoppach catch/call game for Lee.  Not that Victor's pitch selection is at fault, but just to give Lee a different perspective(however slight it might be).  Something/anything to get Lee's game in gear.

by Chiefroy on Jun 13, 2007 3:47 AM EDT reply actions  

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