Sayonara Trot?

Update

I am told that Choo is out for at least a month with an elbow injury...

by stuart dean on Jun 14, 2007 10:01 AM EDT 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

It's not anywhere near time. This is incredibly reactionary, even if Choo was healthy.

by afh4 on Jun 14, 2007 10:45 AM EDT 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

I don't think it's that crazy, honestly. He's been absolutely terrible since early May.

by mkwng on Jun 14, 2007 11:39 AM EDT up 0 recs

Look, if you want to complain about the signing, I can understand that. But cutting a guy that we're paying a substantial amount in relation to our payroll isn't helpful. Shapiro made this investment and isn't going to back off of it because of a hundred bad ABs.

Besides, there aren't really better options. Ben Francisco is taking on a vague folkhero status around here at times but he's still a 25 year old only OPSing .893 in Buffalo and that's with a .338 BA. If he were to play a whole ML season at his current pace he'd be lucky to hit 15 homeruns.

Choo is hurt. And before he was hurt he hadn't lit the world on fire.

Franky is already up and there's no reason to cut Trot to get him time. You can just give him time and sit Trot down.

by afh4 on Jun 14, 2007 11:56 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

15 home runs doesn't look so bad compared to the 6 or so that Trot appears likely to hit this year.

by madherb on Jun 14, 2007 12:18 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

That's if his minor league stats translated directly to major league stats. Which they don't. Which was my roundabout way of pointing out that Ben Francisco isn't some power corner answer.

by afh4 on Jun 14, 2007 1:39 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Small sample size? He has 179 ABs. That's probably half of what we expected out of him when we signed him. He can't do anything even at league average anymore. He can't run, he can't throw, he can't field his position, and he can't hit.

Should we cut him? No, probably not. Keep him around for pies and grit jokes. But he's a bad player now.

Erstad 2007 - .264/.311/.341
Nixon 2007 - .246/.330/.341

by mkwng on Jun 14, 2007 1:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Erstad 2007 - .264/.311/.341
Nixon 2007 - .246/.330/.341

/shudders

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 14, 2007 4:22 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Andrew, Trot's only on a one-year deal, and his salary is a sunk cost. The fact that he's sucking up payroll is no argument for keeping him.

Everyone else, the Erstad comparison points up that Nixon is showing a little more isolated power and almost double the walk rate. Let's also not forget that he's coming back from an injury.

I expect Trot's numbers to improve as the year goes on. Not that I would put money on it, but July tends to be his best month. Maybe we can sell high at the deadline?

by Jay on Jun 14, 2007 7:42 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

While I did say something stupid, which you pointed out, I guess what I meant was:

Shapiro paid him for reasons he felt strongly about.

Shapiro doesn't seem the type to let 3 months change his mind about any substantial investment.

Shapiro can keep him on the team, not give up on the investment that he believed in, without hurting the team in anyway. Trot can simply play less and try to work through this.

Thus, Shapiro is not cutting Trot and, frankly, there's no point to doing so. Unless you really believe Genrealissimo is a .380 singles hitter.

by afh4 on Jun 15, 2007 11:15 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Shapiro doesn't seem the type to let 3 months change his mind about any substantial investment.

Oh no?

by Jay on Jun 15, 2007 7:20 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Context.

by afh4 on Jun 18, 2007 10:10 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Okay, context, but the production is pretty similar.

The contextual difference:

Quality approach
Leadership, respect and accountability
Quality of alternatives

by Jay on Jun 18, 2007 11:18 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Agreed. I would add that even our evil-genius robot of a GM probably isn't immune to the old "when things are going good..." versus "when things are going bad..." effect.

by afh4 on Jun 18, 2007 11:29 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

If Trot is done, which is certainly possible, then why not go with Gutierrez, who does everything Choo can do, is a much better defender, can actually play center field, and is also out of options? It would also clear a spot on the roster, as you wouldn't need a platoon partner.

by Ryan on Jun 14, 2007 11:04 AM EDT 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Or swap with Francisco whose splits have ranged from neutral to obscenely reverse (see this year).

Pre-2007
http://www.minorleaguesplits.com/pl/450/450204.html

2007
http://web.minorleaguebaseball.com/milb/stats/stats.jsp?n=Ben%2520Francisco&pos=&sid=t422&am p;t=p_pbp&pid=450204

by stuart dean on Jun 14, 2007 11:09 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

I'd be more inclined to give Frank the Tank the full-time gig to see if he can handle it and let Trot become the 5th (!) OF and LH bat off of the bench. If Gutz can handle it, great. If not, you know where you stand with the guy.

This from a guy who is certainly not a member of Frank's Fan Club.

I just don't see them cutting Trot loose. Maybe it's an issue with his back that needs rest/trip to the DL.

by The DiaTriber on Jun 14, 2007 12:11 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

They actually can cut him loose. The signing was made with the Dolans' understanding that if it didn't work that the cost would be eaten. I am not a Gutz fan either but if we're going to see if someone has it vs. if someone with still has it, I opt for the former.

by stuart dean on Jun 14, 2007 12:34 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Time to cut bait if you ask me, but I didn't like the signing in the first place. Trot is a totem pole in right with a noodle for an arm. No stats to back this up, but how many times have we seen balls drop that would have been easy pickings for an FG or BLC. With Trot's dramatic drop-off in slugging (and OPS and OPS+, etc.) over the last several years, I can't believe that he'll be able to pull up his offense enough over the course of the year to counteract the number of runs he gives up defensively.

2003 .578 (slg)
2004 .510
2005 .446
2006 .394
2007 .341

by madherb on Jun 14, 2007 11:25 AM EDT 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

I'd be more inclined to this approach if we weren't, in fact, in first place. If we went on a 8-game losing streak and really needed to shake things up, making the commit to Guttierez and cutting loose a guy like Nixon might make sense. As it is, though, I just don't see it happening.

by APV on Jun 14, 2007 11:49 AM EDT 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

He'll go when they trade for Dye or Dunn.

by oxforddave on Jun 14, 2007 12:58 PM EDT 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

I think this is the most likely outcome.

by madherb on Jun 14, 2007 1:02 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Any rumours that we actually are looking to trade for an OF bat? Seems Shap's mancrush on Kearns gets a little play at every trade deadline...

by mcrose on Jun 14, 2007 1:57 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

No explicit info, except I remember reading something in the last week that Shapiro was going to be very aggressive before the trading deadline. That means either corner outfielder or closer.

by oxforddave on Jun 14, 2007 2:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

What makes you think they'd try and trade for one of those guys? I imagine you'd have to offer at least a blue chip AAA player and another really good prospect to get one of those guys. If they can get one of those guys for Cliff Lee and a prospect though, fire away.

by Pronk33 on Jun 14, 2007 1:58 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

I find it highly unlikely that Dye gets here, unless he moves to another team first. It would be very difficult to do an intra-division trade.

by talonk on Jun 14, 2007 2:01 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Dunn is a possibility.

I still think they look to aquire a back end bullpen arm first, but aquiring a regular corner outfielder the quality of Dunn because he should be available (Cincy is going nowhere) will be considered.

Heard a rumor that Colorado might be willing to part with Fuentes, then there's Cordero in Was. and either of the Texas guys as well.

by hans on Jun 14, 2007 2:18 PM EDT 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Fuentes is a dream acquisition. I cannot imagine what they're asking for but I'd love to have him. Maybe Ryan Mulhern for Fuentes? Throw in Chris Whitney?

I think Dunn looks a lot better from afar. He's an extremely frustrating player day to day because of the strikeouts and the defense.

by afh4 on Jun 14, 2007 2:21 PM EDT up 0 recs

I think you mean Matt Whitney!

Hello Andrew,

Looking more at Fuentes, I can see why you say "dream acquisition" - his K rate is a bit down from the past two years, but that's compensated with a low H rate and a lower BB rate than his past two years, which translates to a much lower WHIP as well (0.82.) And, to top it off, a lower than .200 BAA (.180.)

You mentioned Mulhern and Whitney; I'd even consider throwing Brad Snyder in there if that's what it took to get it done - if the ball travels out of that ballpark like it used to, Snyder could probably hit 30+ HRs, albeit strike out probably close to 200 times, but he might give them either another option to play in CF instead of Taveras or have a very good corner OFer defensively who offers a lot of power.

As for Dunn, I agree with you - I'm not fond of his K rate and his tendency to always pull the ball; that's why I think many consider Dunn to have not quite lived up to his potential when he was coming up through the Minors because he's become a one-dimensional player. In the Minors, he actually hit for a high BA (.300+) and I think he played solid to good defense at one time as well, but not anymore.

No, he'd probably cost too much in terms of talent we'd have to give up for him, and he's a FA after this year, is he not? No, if we'd go after an OFer, I'd rather get someone who is young and would be here for the long-term like Toronto OF Alex Rios, a guy who has developing power, good BA, plays good to great defense with a strong arm - I'd rather the Indians do that than go after a one-dimensional guy like Dunn.

Just my 2 cents. :-)

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Jun 14, 2007 4:32 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: I think you mean Matt Whitney!

Umm. I was kidding about Mulhern and Whitney. I can't tell if you're kidding.

by afh4 on Jun 14, 2007 4:44 PM EDT up 0 recs

I figured you were kidding (that price seemed

too low,) but it's nice to dream right. :-)

One thing I meant to ask, how long before Fuentes is up for arbitration and free agency? I'd be curious about that before offering a "real" package to the Rockies for him.

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Jun 14, 2007 4:51 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Anyone else see the potential parallels between the Cavs' handling of Eric Snow and the Tribe with Trot Nixon? Leadership, veteran presence, terrible on-field production, etc.?

What's particularly interesting (to me at least) is that the Cavs really started playing better when Snow got less playing time - and this was made possible partly by how he handled the demotion - in favor of some of the younger guys.

Shapiro and Ferry have always shared opinions on these matters. I'd love to see Shapiro follow Ferry's lead on this one.

by macasson on Jun 14, 2007 2:32 PM EDT 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Nope, Snow plays good defense.

/rimshot

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 14, 2007 4:20 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

nicely done, turk.

are you actually turkish? my mother is turkish and my research is in turkey.

by macasson on Jun 14, 2007 4:23 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

His handle comes from the title assumed by the recently deceased Saparmurat Niyazov, former head of the Turkmen Communist Party.

by homelytourist on Jun 14, 2007 4:44 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

!!!

Well researched, man! I'd shake your hand if I met you. Curious, but did you actually know that or did you look it up?

Anyway, homelytourist is right. I'm not Turkish, but I study post-Soviet Central Asia. Turkmenbashi was a crazy and ecclectic dictator with an insane cult of personality. he's one of those people that makes you pray for the people of his country but you can't help but laugh at the insane things he does. For instance, he named the month of January after himself, and built a golden statue of himself in Ashgabat (capital of Turkmenistan) that rotates to face the sun.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 14, 2007 6:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Completely O/T but I've been offered a job in Kazakhstan. Any insight?

Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on Jun 14, 2007 7:47 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

What kind of job? I spent last summer in Uzbekistan, actually, and loved it. Kazakhstan is probably much better, too. Depends what the job is and how adventurous of a guy you are. I'd be happy to talk more about the region, if you're interested.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 14, 2007 7:56 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Engineer on a Chevon pipeline. 28 days on (6X12 hours then 1X8 aweek) followed by 28 days off. They pay for your flight home - for me it's back to Maui by way of Korea. Pays way too much money but ya gotta go through Azuka (sp?) The work is based outta Tergiz.

Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on Jun 14, 2007 9:44 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

After college I tried (and failed) to get a job as a pipeliner. All I can say is that I'd love to work on stuff like this. They wouldn't even have to fly me home!

by homelytourist on Jun 14, 2007 10:04 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Ya gotta have a Professional Engineer's License. The labor types (pipefitters etc.) are all Fillipino and Korean. The ex-pats are mostly American and English - engineer types with experience. It's almost impossible to get on as a ex-pat craft's man - we're too expensive.

Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on Jun 14, 2007 10:07 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Did you mean "Tengiz," perhaps? If so, DO IT! The Tengiz oil field is like one of the next big things in the oil/energy/security matrix going on over there. Do it, do it in a heartbeat.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 15, 2007 12:31 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Ya Tengiz - that's it. I fly into Atyrau via Seoul then take a 18 seat Czech puddle-jumper to Tengiz.

Everybody over there is touting Kazakhstan as the next Saudi Arabia. I'll email you some pictures if you want.

Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on Jun 15, 2007 7:04 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Yeah, from everything I've heard in my work/studies, Tengiz is gonna be huge. I'd jump at the chance to do it, but then again that's because I'm semi-obsessed with the area. I'd love to see some pictures... I can send some of Uzbekistan if you'd like.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 15, 2007 2:18 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

I've met some people who worked on the Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline in the Republic of Georgia. The work conditions seemed fairly bleak, but the pay was good, it was work in pretty gorgeous locations, and when they weren't working they lived like kings.

by APV on Jun 15, 2007 10:08 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

No direct thoughts on Kazakhstan, but my experience with Central Asia (as an outsider looking to do research in the area) has always been very positive.

And, thanks, Turkmenbashi, for the info. Good luck in your field!

by macasson on Jun 14, 2007 7:53 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Thanks! Hey, what kind of research do you do?

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 14, 2007 7:57 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Prehistoric archaeology

by macasson on Jun 14, 2007 9:47 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Ooh, great stuff. I used to want to be a paleontologist when I was a kid. I hear there some pretty cool archaeological stuff in Turkmenistan. I got to see some cool ancient Silk Road cities while I was over there, but nothing prehistoric.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 15, 2007 12:32 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

I always wanted to pretend to be a paleontologist.

by Jay on Jun 15, 2007 1:30 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Did you love Jurassic park as much as I did?

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 15, 2007 1:43 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Since I wasn't an eight-year-old ... no.

by Jay on Jun 15, 2007 1:45 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

OK, I wasn't aware you had to be an eight-year-old to like a movie that many consider classic.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 15, 2007 1:51 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Classic? That's a bit of a stretch. Few film fans or critics would put it in Spielberg's ten best. It is probably one of the best five movies with dinosaurs in it, I'll give you that.

I liked it, I just didn't "love it as much as [you] did."

by Jay on Jun 15, 2007 9:37 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Few critics could fill out a list titled "Spielberg's Ten Best."

by Fiddlesticks on Jun 15, 2007 12:21 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

You're so right. Jaws, E.T., Raiders of the Lost Ark, The Color Purple, Schindler's List, Saving Private Ryan ... critics just hate those movies.

by Jay on Jun 15, 2007 7:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

I mean, I loved it then and even today I can still appreciate it. Classic, maybe not, but it was definitely groundbreaking in terms of special effects. Book was better, though.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 15, 2007 2:14 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Hey, I liked it, and I was, like, at least ten at the time.

Disclaimer: this post doesn't mean what you think it means.

by AngG on Jun 15, 2007 5:56 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

That's a cool subject, Turk. I'm interested in Soviet Architecture esp. Military Architectures and I've picked up a few things, but I've just about covered all I know about this person.
I'm eager to do something crazy like move to Uzbekistan or whatever. Sounds like you've had some rad experiences.

by homelytourist on Jun 14, 2007 9:00 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

It was a lot of fun, some great memories... And yeah, I like my field. I know the Cold War ended like, 20 years ago, but I can't seem to convince myself of that :-P

In all seriousness, though, Russia/Central Asia are going to be huge in the next 15-20 years; I see that area as the new geopolitical battleground in a new "Cold War" (or even "hot war?") with China.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 15, 2007 12:34 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

I've spent a fair amount of time in the Caucasus, and the old Soviet military monuments/architecture that still exist are completely crazy. Strange styles that you just don't see here in the U.S. And one of the truly fascinating things is that almost every small town/village has a monument to WWII, including the names and in most cases pictures of the local soldiers who died in the war. The little village that I work in which probably has 100-200 residents has 16 names/faces, all young men between the ages of 17-24. Wild.

by APV on Jun 15, 2007 10:12 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Sounds awesome... Uzbekistan was like a whole other world. I walked in ancient cities where the only thing keeping you from actually thinking you were in the 11th century was the occasional Cleveland Cavs hat you'd find it a bazaar.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 15, 2007 2:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

For instance, he named the month of January after himself, and built a golden statue of himself in Ashgabat (capital of Turkmenistan) that rotates to face the sun.

Not so shocking. Didn't we offer these things to Thome in our contract negotiations?

by MTF on Jun 15, 2007 9:45 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

+1

Disclaimer: this post doesn't mean what you think it means.

by AngG on Jun 15, 2007 10:01 AM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Nice!

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 15, 2007 2:15 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: Sayonara Trot?

Absolutely agree with your first sentence. really, is Trot going to improve? Is he shaking off the dust from Spring training? The game is slowly passing him by. It's all about the grit, a stable clubhouse, vet leadership.

Guys like he and Delucci, Roberto Hernandez were safe acquisitions due to their experience and their price tags. Anything beneficial we got out of them would be an exciting bonus. I'm waiting for most of these guys to play their way out of the lineup. Meanwhile the Franciscos and Gutierrez's are getting primed for the big time, or the determination if they can handle the big time, day in and out.

by BoDiaz1974 on Jun 14, 2007 3:27 PM EDT 0 recs