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Hafner Negotiations Resume

Tiny by world dictator on

Apologize if this has been posted already. I know there was a diary about Hafner turning down an offer earlier this year but this seems to be a new development

Star-divide

According to the Cleveland Plain Dealer, the Indians' flagship radio station has reported that contract negotiations between the team and Hafner have resumed. Hafner could be signed within the next several weeks, according to the newspaper.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/player?statsId=6980 Hopefully this will help Hafner take the load off of his mind and continue to hit. I suggested all along that that they should just sign him during the all star break and be done with it.

Update [2007-7-11 0:46:59 by Ryan]:: Very prescient thoughts, since a deal might get done this week.

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Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
That'd be nice. Really nice.

by JulioBernazard on Jun 29, 2007 9:34 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resumed
That's an astonishingly poor job of reading comprehension by whoever posted that. Here's what the PD article says:

WTAM AM/1100, the Indians' flagship station, reported negotiations between the Indians and Travis Hafner have resumed and that Hafner could be signed within the next several weeks.

Hafner's agent, Scott Parker, said, "I haven't talked to the Indians since we decided to put off negotiations until the end of the season."

Said General Manager Mark Shapiro, "The way we left it in spring training is the way we left it until we say something else."

It may be that negotiations have resumed, and both sides are denying it. But in no way did the PD article say that negotiations have started up again - it was reporting the radio rumor.

by Ryan on Jun 29, 2007 11:01 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resumed
As you can see from the link I got it from fox sports news (I was actually watching the boxscore and they had it next to Hafner)

So I never saw the article. I was just relying what fox said

by world dictator on Jun 29, 2007 11:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resumed
Not blaming you at all - the blurb was horribly worded.

by Ryan on Jun 29, 2007 11:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resumed
Fair enough. Though to be fair I don't think an agent and a GM denying a rumor means that the rumor is false. I agree that the blurb is horribly worded but I don't think you can say its 100% false. With the way Shapiro operates I can total see him denying that any talks have been started and then suddenly announcing that Hafner has a deal.

by world dictator on Jun 29, 2007 11:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resumed
Of course, it's their job to stretch the truth when necessary. And it could be true that negotiations are ongoing. But since we have no one saying this with the exception of one radio host, it's much safer to assume that negotiations are not taking place.

Contributing to my reaction is the fact that LGT is now on Google News, on I'd rather not give out the impression that we're breaking a story.

by Ryan on Jun 29, 2007 11:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resumed
You've hit the big time Ryan!

Cheers!

by talonk on Jun 30, 2007 12:17 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resumed
They've turned us (SB Nation) down in the past, but I guess we've gotten big enough to finally be treated as "real" news. That's why I was a bit antsy with the diary title.

by Ryan on Jun 30, 2007 5:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resumed
<Contributing to my reaction is the fact that LGT is now on Google News, on I'd rather not give out the impression that we're breaking a story.>

Touche

PS. Yay for google news

PSS. If its better to just deleted the diary feel free to. I have absolutely no problem with it

by world dictator on Jun 30, 2007 12:31 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations [Have Not] Resumed
I apologize for editing the diary title, but I want to avoid any more confusion.

by Ryan on Jun 29, 2007 11:05 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
Ironically I think that more than Hafners "slump" CC's great season has lead to an increased likelihood that the Tribe will resign Hafner. CC's stellar season looks like its going to price him out of the Indian's range, more so than he already was.

CC is definetely going to be either a Giant or a Dodger in 2008, assuming he leaves during the offseason.

by world dictator on Jul 11, 2007 1:25 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
or an Angel. I forget that the Angels are such a big spending team.

by world dictator on Jul 11, 2007 1:26 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
The "CC's going to the West Coast" drum beat maybe misplaced.  He's going where they pay the most - period.  I still see him on his way to one of the NY clubs.  They'll charter a whole plane and fly his family out to the games if necessary.  Whatever it takes.
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on Jul 11, 2007 6:59 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
the idea of the NY teams being this giant magnet for Free Agents hasn't been true for sometime. There's a lot more teams in the markets for big free agents now days

by world dictator on Jul 11, 2007 10:47 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

You mean 2009, correct?
Hello world dictator,

I think you mean 2009, correct?  CC is signed through 2008; if you mean he could be traded this offseason (possible, but unlikely,) then the Giants and Dodgers wouldn't be the only two teams who could get him.

mauichuck - I could see CC going to one of the NY teams, but the Angels also spend quite a bit of money as well, and if I'm correct, doesn't Colon come off the books around 2009?  Not sure on that.  In addition, the Dodgers and Giants, like the Mets, would also give CC the chance to hit regularly, something I'd think he'd enjoy doing on a regular basis.  Plus, he seemed to really enjoy being back on the West Coast during the ASB; if the dollar amounts aren't that much different, I could see him heading back to the West Coast, even if the Yankees or Mets offer him a bit more than the West Coast teams do.

I'm hopeful Sabathia keeps an open mind when it comes to what the Indians offer him; it's probably just "speak" when he implied the idea that resigning Pronk would go a ways toward helping CC decide to stay in Cleveland.  I was encouraged by that comment, even though I know that doesn't guarantee CC will stay in Cleveland even if the Indians do resign Pronk in the near future, but it was still nice to hear, nevertheless.  :-)

Just my 2 cents.

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Jul 11, 2007 8:13 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
The guys who run theclevelandfan.com are saying that the deal is pretty much done, and there will be a press conference tomorrow.

by ASP on Jul 11, 2007 9:21 AM EDT   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
how reliable is that site? i've never seen it

by Roger Dorn on Jul 11, 2007 11:36 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
Guess we'll know by Friday.

by afh4 on Jul 11, 2007 11:37 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
it was formerly "swerbsblurbs."  they're pretty good.  tony lastoria appears to at least have relationships with some development staff.

by emil minty on Jul 11, 2007 12:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
Lots of quantity, almost no quality.  Their main Indians writers would not be considered among the more astute contributors if they were here on this forum.

by Jay on Jul 11, 2007 2:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
the "b-list" is reliably funny, though.

by emil minty on Jul 11, 2007 2:06 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
Isn't that the case in most places?  
Quantity over quality?

by The DiaTriber on Jul 11, 2007 4:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
"Their main Indians writers would not be considered among the more astute contributors if they were here on this forum."

There's still hope for average guys like me to become a sportswriter ...

by SpringTrainingFun on Jul 11, 2007 4:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
Would someone please provide a link to the specific article?  Thanks.

by mplswahoo on Jul 11, 2007 12:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
That cartoon is awesome.

Reminds of when my friend Jason excitedly was showing me some latest/greatest MLB video game.  I'm not a video game guy (anymore), so when he set up the Pedro-vs.-Yankees game, I just did what came naturally to both me and Pedro:  I threw the ball at Jeter's head, over and over again.

by Jay on Jul 11, 2007 2:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
Rizzo on ESPN 850 says he's been told that nothing will be announced today.  So... that means basically nothing.  Just trying to stay up-to-date.

by nickjs21 on Jul 11, 2007 12:06 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
Even though it's probably just talk, this is encouraging:

"It would be huge [if a deal is reached]," Tribe ace C.C. Sabathia said. "I would be happy. I would definitely take that as a good sign about getting something done with me. Everybody wants to stay. The core of this team has been together for a long time. We've been through a lot together, and we want to bring a championship to Cleveland together."

by FranklinScott on Jul 11, 2007 12:55 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
how could he possibly take that as a good sign of something being done with him?  maybe he means a trade.

by emil minty on Jul 11, 2007 1:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
when its your offense thats good of course.

by world dictator on Jul 11, 2007 2:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
We could go the cheesy route and say, well they are morphing into a true family, the team is exceptionally close (CC said so himself), they've been together for years, and CC likes to see a that the FO is committed to keeping that nucleus together.  

Or you can look at it like this - this new commitment could signify big $$ for CC.

It's got to be some combination of the two, or CC is full of shit.

- Jake

by jakesinger777 on Jul 11, 2007 2:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
It just occured to me - all these years of Dolan saying "we'll spend when the time is right" might not have been referring to free agents (or external ones).  I'm starting to think they just meant keeping their guys when they become stars (like Sabathia, Vic, Grady..etc..) - Shapiro kept saying that we're not going to spend money for the sake of spending money.  As in, this past offseason, paying some ridiculous amount to someone who isn't worth it.  This, however, is a whole other story.  

And if it is what was meant, then I think we'll all be very happy.

- Jake

by jakesinger777 on Jul 11, 2007 2:35 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
For a market like Cleveland (and virtually everywhere else), it's much more efficient to spend your money keeping the stars you have, because most of the contracts are not likely to be at free agent market value. Signing the Paul Byrds of the world is not something you'd like to do if don't have to.

by Ryan on Jul 11, 2007 2:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
Plus, you already know what you have in the player, how they respond to the environment (ballpark, teammates, city etc..) they are already in, AND they might take a discount to play for you.

It's a win win..win.

(That's what she said? Anyone?)

- Jake

by jakesinger777 on Jul 11, 2007 3:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
From what I can gather, the key part of the deal involves balancing the "home team discount" with some kind of provision that the discount disappears if the contract is assumed by another team (ie, the player gets traded).

Did Jake get something similar? And is this bargaining tactic original to Shapiro? IMO, it's a very good way to deal when there's an amicable situation and the player wants to stay, and the FO doesn't want to get stuck with a strict no-trade agreement.

I wonder if the same tactic can be used to bring CC's price down to the outer limits of Dolan's budget, while still giving him a "fair market" Zito type deal if he goes to any other team at some point.

by mcrose on Jul 11, 2007 2:56 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
I don't know if I've ever heard of this..and it doesn't seem like this kind of deal that makes any sense.  

Can the Indians force another team to pay CC more money than his current contract calls for.
If you get hired by McDonald's, can they sign you to a contract saying that BK has to pay you 10% more if they hire you away?  

- Jake

by jakesinger777 on Jul 11, 2007 2:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
These kind of deals happen all the time. Off the top of my head, Mark Buehrle just got on I'm pretty sure. It's neither original or unusual. It's just the language of the contract.

by afh4 on Jul 11, 2007 3:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
Oh ok, I mean I believe you, but in theory it seems pretty funky, doesn't it?
- Jake

by jakesinger777 on Jul 11, 2007 3:06 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
If you think about it in terms of your McDonalds, Burger King analogy yeah. Real world contracts, at least the kind most people deal with, are a lot more straightforward than sports contracts.

I mean, sports contracts also include clauses that you can't ride motorcycles and sky dive. They're pretty funky in general.

by afh4 on Jul 11, 2007 3:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
Exactly.  I am not familiar with the current MLB CBA.  Generally speaking, however, a contract is a contract and sophisticated parties can agree to whatever terms they want - i.e., C.C. and the Indians can agree to some sort of modified no-trade provision, which would garner C.C. more money in the event of a trade.  

Should the time come that C.C. signs such a deal with the Tribe and then gets traded anyway, the Indians and the other team negotiate the terms of that transaction (in effect, another contract) as well.  

It's just a series of private business transactions - part of what makes this country so great - and perfectly legitimate.

by mplswahoo on Jul 11, 2007 3:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
Right - I understand all of this, but that part that I find funky is that the Indians, in their negotiation with CC, can involved an (at the time of the contract) undetermined team in the deal.  It just seems odd..I understand how it works, I am just surprised you are allowed to do that.  
- Jake

by jakesinger777 on Jul 11, 2007 3:19 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
Well, at the time of the subsequent trade to the as-yet-undetermined team, that team would have to freely agree to accept the terms of C.C.'s contract.

It's also possible that the Tribe would agree to actually foot the bill to pay C.C. the extra money too (although, perhaps unlikely).  

Bottom line is:  The terms of any contract C.C. might negotiate with the Tribe would have to be honored until the contract terminates.  Via trade, another team can - if it so desires - agree to honor the terms of that contract.

by mplswahoo on Jul 11, 2007 3:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
That is the key.  Players always come with contracts attached.  If that contract says, "if you're not the Indians, you have to pay me $2 million more," then that's what it says.

These clauses are becoming more and more common, as teams wise up and refuse to give no-trade clauses.  Sizemore has a trade escalator, Westbrook does not.  Buerhle essentially gets another year at $19 million if he's traded.

by Jay on Jul 11, 2007 3:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
But then don't some of these become no-trade clauses in the sense that other teams won't want to trade for these guys?  I mean, who is going to want to pay Buerhle a $19M year at any point in his contract, and all the more so at the back end of it?
- Jake

by jakesinger777 on Jul 11, 2007 3:48 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
That kind of depends on what the rest of the market looks like and the need of the receiving team.  In such a case, the receiving team can go ahead and decide to bite that bullet.  In the case of an out-right no trade clause, it's not even an option.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jul 11, 2007 3:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
Perhaps.  But that is precisely the point - if a player agrees to a "hometown discount," give him some leverage (i.e., more money) if he ends up playing out the finals years of his contract for someone other than the "hometown" team.

by mplswahoo on Jul 11, 2007 3:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
That is true, but you have to look at it as three different elements.

  1. Hometown discount.
  2. Freedom to trade.
  3. Freedom to trade at a hometown discount.

The player has a good point in saying, just because I'm giving in to your demands for #1 and #2 doesn't mean you're also entitled to #3.

by Jay on Jul 11, 2007 3:53 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
Said more eloquently than I did above, I yield the gentleman? from Philadelphia.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jul 11, 2007 3:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
Only you and Chuck know the real me.

by Jay on Jul 11, 2007 4:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
What can I say to this?  The tears are getting in the way of a witty reply...
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jul 11, 2007 4:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
Of all the posts written today to refute me or explain to me something that I should have already understood, I like this the best.  Good job.
- Jake

by jakesinger777 on Jul 11, 2007 4:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
That's the whole point. It's a no-trade without being a full no-trade. Players are happy b/c it makes it very hard to trade them, teams are happy because it doesn't rule out the possibility.

Bobby Abreu was probably every bit as untradeable as Buehrle will be at the end of his deal. And it happened, because someone was willing to pay. Abreu also had a trade kicker I think, where he essentially had to be bought out of a no-trade clause.

by afh4 on Jul 11, 2007 3:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
Well, this was a weird convergence of LGTness.

by afh4 on Jul 11, 2007 3:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
Yes, these types of clauses are fairly common, and legal.

For instance, if Adam Dunn gets traded before the end of the year, the 2008 team option on his contract goes away. It lessens Dunn's value to another team, but it prevents the player from outright vetoing a trade. It's a compromise that's seemed to work well.

by Ryan on Jul 11, 2007 3:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
Another thing:
I'm assuming that Pronk's new contract (if he signs one), will involved the ripping up of the current contract (next is a $5M club option) and starting it from this coming year.  Now even the most ridiculous proposals have Hafner earning about $10-12M per.  This means we'd only be adding $5-7M to next year's payroll.  This leaves us with a lot of room for flexibility, doesn't it?
- Jake

by jakesinger777 on Jul 11, 2007 3:44 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
You're assuming wrong.  The new contract almost certainly will commence from 2009 and (must) include the picking up of Hafner's 2008 option in order to be valid.

There may be a signing bonus this year, and there may be an increase for next year, but you should assume that this is being negotiated in terms total compensation after 2008, because that's all Hafner has to sell.  The timing of that compensation is purely a scheduling detail.

Westbrook got a $2 million payment for this season as part of his new 2008-2010 deal.  The only reason the Indians are doing this, however, is because their payroll is under-budget for this season anyway.

by Jay on Jul 11, 2007 3:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
Only if they sell more tickets and make the play-offs.  Then they'll have some mad money to sign FA's and re-sign CC.
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on Jul 11, 2007 3:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
That SoB better start hittin' now!
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on Jul 11, 2007 7:36 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
Is this the largest contract the team has ever agreed upon?

by homelytourist on Jul 11, 2007 7:41 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
I'm pretty sure the biggest Indian one year salary to date is Juan Gonzalez's $10M for 2001.
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on Jul 11, 2007 7:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Hafner Negotiations Resume
Um, this is HUGE HUGE HUGE.  I'm surprised it's not on the front page yet!!!!  RYAN!

by NickFantana on Jul 11, 2007 7:41 PM EDT   0 recs

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