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Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base

I remember hearing once about the nineteen ways a runner can score from third base: base hit, sacrifice fly, wild pitch, passed ball, stolen base, . . . but I can't seem to recall the others.

I don't remember the source and my search online at baseball-almanac.com and other sites came up short. Is this total correct? Has anyone else heard of this? Can you guys help me finish this list?

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Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Yes, this total must refer to official scoring so fielder's choice would have to be one. Did you ever hear this number mentioned before?

by ploni on Jun 5, 2007 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
No I haven't.

My dad always does that puzzle where, ummm.

Hmm you get like 4 triples in an inning, no pickoffs or something, and no runs score.

It's confusing and I'm not doing it justice. The 'trick' is that you can get guys out by hitting players with a batted ball.

Or something. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

by afh4 on Jun 5, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
does busted pick off attempt count as it's own way to score from third?
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jun 5, 2007 3:49 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Is bunt for base hit different than base hit?

by afh4 on Jun 5, 2007 3:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
I would think no, bunt is really just an infield hit. Unless infield hit counts separately from base hit, which I just don't see.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jun 5, 2007 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
And do HR, double, and triple all count separately?

by afh4 on Jun 5, 2007 3:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Okay, so far I count eleven:

base hit
sacrifice fly
wild pitch
passed ball
stolen base
balk
walk
fielder's choice
sacrifice bunt
hit by pitch
error

by ploni on Jun 5, 2007 3:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
I think we're at like 14 if we count HR, 2b, and 3b all separately.

Hmm...

I think I might be out...

by afh4 on Jun 5, 2007 3:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Now that I think about it, I think you're right.

by ploni on Jun 5, 2007 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Is Intentional walk scored differently then a walk?  Not sure why you were intentionally walk someone with the bases juiced, but it's theoretically possible...
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jun 5, 2007 3:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
I bet you this is going to happen to Hafner or Victor at some time when they're scorching hot.

by ploni on Jun 5, 2007 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Well, the question stands, is an IBB scored differently than a BB in terms of advancing the runner home from 3rd.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jun 5, 2007 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Yo, Jay! Hey, Ryan!

What are you guys doing all day, working?!

by ploni on Jun 5, 2007 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Could catcher's interference score a guy from 3rd?

by APV on Jun 5, 2007 3:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
I think this is scored as an error as well.

by talonk on Jun 5, 2007 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Really?  That doesn't feel right Dean.  But I'm not a rules expert.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jun 5, 2007 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
No interference is "I" in scorekeeping I'm pretty sure.

by afh4 on Jun 5, 2007 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
What about advancing home on a dropped third strike with no tag? How's that scored? RBI on a K? Or is that just an error?

by afh4 on Jun 5, 2007 4:01 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
It would almost have to be a passed ball in that case, don't you think?  I'm not sure how it's scored though.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jun 5, 2007 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
What about like the Angels-Sox game?

Is that a passed ball? What if a guy had been on third?

by afh4 on Jun 5, 2007 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
I'm missing the reference here, didn't see that play, can you describe further?
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jun 5, 2007 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
In the 2005 ALCS. AJ took first after that ball was pulled out of the dirt. Molina and all the Angels walked off the field and the ball was rolled back towards the mound.

The ball never went anywhere. Molina caught it right off the dirt and then rolled it back.

by afh4 on Jun 5, 2007 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Oh, that play, I thought you were talking about something that happened more recently.  So, if a runner was at third and scored, how would that have been officially scored... hell if I know.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jun 5, 2007 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
See, I get bonus points for remembering that it was Josh Paul catching at the time (though the box score shows Escobar was the pitcher, oh well).

by zempf on Jun 5, 2007 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
I believe it was the LCS the year the Sox won the series (yuck). K-Rod's on the mound in the ninth, pitching to Pierzynski with I believe a one-run lead. Pierzynski swings at strike three & gets rung up, Josh Paul throws the ball back towards the mound & the Angels start to leave the field.. but Pierzynski takes off for first. After much argument, he gets awarded the base, though replays were pretty inconclusive as to whether Paul had held onto the ball or not.

by zempf on Jun 5, 2007 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Bah, need to work on reading comprehension, that's up there already.

by zempf on Jun 5, 2007 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
How about this scenario.  Runner at 2nd, ball hit into the infield.  Runner advances to 3rd as the fielder is throwing the ball out of play (error).  Hitter is awarded 2nd, runner is awarded home (from 3rd).  Is that distinct?  You've got an FC and an error.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jun 5, 2007 4:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
How about double play, or force out? Are these considered different than fielders choice?

by oxforddave on Jun 5, 2007 4:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
I've got the best one:

Defensive Indifference.

Please?

by afh4 on Jun 5, 2007 4:06 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Just as likely as my IBB option above.  I like it.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jun 5, 2007 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
I just love the image of a pitcher looking in, taking signs, realizing the runner's going, and just kind of standing up, waiting a second, and then going back to taking signs. Runner just hits home plate and runs straight to dugout. No cheering. Just some indifference.

by afh4 on Jun 5, 2007 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Yeah, totally, you can almost see the pitcher say "meh" when the guy is halfway down the first base line and goes back to looking at the catcher's sign.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jun 5, 2007 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
although a possibility, i really don't see that happening.

by talonk on Jun 5, 2007 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Likelyhood doesn't matter in this instance, it's possible.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jun 5, 2007 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
This thread says there's only 12, though that's saying double/triple/single/homer is just "fair hit."

by zempf on Jun 5, 2007 4:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Here's that thread's list:

  1. Wild Pitch
  2. Past Ball
  3. Steal
  4. Single
  5. Double
  6. Triple
  7. Homerun
  8. Sac Fly
  9. Groundout
10.Error
  1. Suicide Squeeze
  2. Balk

A suicide squeeze is a stolen base, last time I looked.

by ploni on Jun 5, 2007 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Suicide squeeze is a sac bunt, though, right? Otherwise it's just a steal of home.

by zempf on Jun 5, 2007 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Yeah, I agree a suicide squeeze isn't just a stolen base, you have to have an out to give to pull that off.  Sac bunt.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jun 5, 2007 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Umpire stupidity... Run gets awarded three innings later & MLB doesn't give a flip that you've been screwed.

by JK in CBus on Jun 5, 2007 4:07 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Umpire interference with runners moving with bases loaded.  Catcher's interference with bases loaded.

by formerlylorain on Jun 5, 2007 4:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Fielder throws his glove at a batted fly ball or pop-up, scoring runner from third who would have held.

Maybe?

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Jun 5, 2007 4:08 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
How about fan interference? Commissioner interference? Station identification interference?

by ploni on Jun 5, 2007 4:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Fan interference is possible.  But is it scored differently than catcher's interference or anyone else's interference.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jun 5, 2007 4:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Catcher's interference is an error. I think fan interference is basically the same as a ground-rule double.

by zempf on Jun 5, 2007 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
I don't think fan interference applies here.

If it was a foul ball, and the fan interferes, it is still a foul ball. You cannot award home on it.

If it was a fair ball, the runners are allowed their "respective" bases that the ump deems they normally would have had.

by talonk on Jun 5, 2007 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Yes, I was thinking the same.  The fair ball version of this is a ground rule double.  Everything else is an out... I think.  Is it ruled that way if a fan touches a ball and its questionable whether the defender would have been able to make the out?  

by JK in CBus on Jun 5, 2007 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Defensive obstruction of base runner coming home from third base by a fielder who does not have or is not awaiting the ball.  Spectator obstruction like Jeffrey Maier.  

by formerlylorain on Jun 5, 2007 4:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Obstruction's counted as an error too; that's why I don't think we could possibly find 19, because so many things are covered by the generic "error."

by zempf on Jun 5, 2007 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
True, but:

10.12(c) When an umpire awards the batter or any runner or runners one or more bases because of interference or obstruction, the official scorer shall charge the fielder who committed the interference or obstruction with one error, no matter how many bases the batter, or runner or runners, may advance.

by zempf on Jun 5, 2007 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Also - Rule 10.12(c) Comment: The official scorer shall not charge an error if obstruction does not change the play, in the opinion of the scorer.

by talonk on Jun 5, 2007 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
When my boss asks why I didn't get anything done this afternoon, I'm blaming you guys.

by zempf on Jun 5, 2007 4:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
If you count 1B, 2B, 3B, and HR differently instead of coutning just "hits," why not E-6, E-5, E-4, etc?  I wouldn't count them, but it would certainly add up if you did.

by nickjs21 on Jun 5, 2007 4:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Here is the one way that the run could be scored via interference I think:

1. Runner on third, one out, batter hits fly ball to the outfield on which the runner scores but catcher's interference was called. The offensive manager may elect to take the run and have batter called out or have runner remain at third and batter awarded first base.

But this would be scored as a sac fly I think.

by talonk on Jun 5, 2007 4:29 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
70+ comments in 40 minutes, how many people jumped in thinking Brandini was here?

by JK in CBus on Jun 5, 2007 4:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
HA! I was thinking the same thing, this has definitely been a rapidly populated thread.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jun 5, 2007 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
That's NOT WHAT I'M SAYING!  Please READ my POSTS, you're not understanding me!
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Jun 5, 2007 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Ha!  Me too!  

Anyway, according to this new ESPN trivia book, there are 23 ways to get to first...

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on Jun 5, 2007 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
The list of "heart of baseball philosophy" is hilarious.

A lot of those are just errors. This is really a semantic argument at this point. But I can't see what the point is in differentiating:

A hard hit ground ball through the infield and directly in front of an outfielder.

from

A short line drive or a bloop single just over the infield.

???

Still, that list is awesome:

  1. They never beat themselves.
  2. Their pre-game infield practice is really impressive.
  3. They really play with a great deal of pride.
  4. Did you see that team hustle on and off the field?  

That's winning baseball, people.

by afh4 on Jun 5, 2007 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Have we said double play?  Or is that just a groundout?

by nickjs21 on Jun 5, 2007 4:35 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Who knows at this point. Does mlb.com have a "Ask the Official Scorer" feature?

by ploni on Jun 5, 2007 4:40 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Where's Hal when ya need him?

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on Jun 5, 2007 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Wait!  Speaking of Hal, here is an excerpt from his book that lists 17 ways!  Man, I miss Hal.

by mkwng @ Let's Go Tribe! on Jun 5, 2007 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Okay, good job, mkwng.

Here's my latest total:

single
double
triple
home run
sacrifice fly
wild pitch
passed ball
stolen base
balk
walk
fielder's choice
sacrifice bunt
hit by pitch
error
interference
"obstruction"
"force play"
"dropped third strike when play is made on batter going to first"
"a ground rule on an overthrow which would send the runner home"

That's 19, the last four quotes from Hal, he should rest in peace. (Wow, talk about influential; the guy's dead two years and he's still resolving sports disputes.)

What exactly are "obstruction" and "force play."

by ploni on Jun 5, 2007 5:13 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
How about an umpire recount later in the game...Nah, that can't happen.

by kov on Jun 5, 2007 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
It looks like "obstruction" is when a fielder hinders a baserunner. It might be remembered as "defensive interference."

"Interference," as a term, seems to be caused by everything else: baserunners, fans, non-players, etc.

by ploni on Jun 5, 2007 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
I think that a force play could be a pick off.  Technically, a runner could be picked off thrid and still score without a defensive error.

by homelytourist on Jun 5, 2007 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
You have fielder's choice and sac bunt, but not plain old groundout.  That is a separate one.

There is a new rule this year that says if a player catches a foul ball and his feet end up in the dugout, all baserunners automatically advance one base.

by Jay on Jun 6, 2007 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
As to this "new rule," I seem to remember Casey Blake catching a foul pop in Boston last week with no out and the bases loaded (Mastny was pitching in the seventh inning, I believe - it was Byrd's start).  Blake caught the ball on the field in foul territory, but his feet "ended up" in the dugout as a few players braced his fall. No Red Sox advanced, and the Tribe got out of the inning.

Is this situation somehow different from the new rule you speak of - or were you kidding and making a subtle reference that clearly sailed over and above my head?

by mplswahoo on Jun 6, 2007 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Evidently I didn't have it quite right, but I wasn't kidding.

The new rule says you can't step into the dugout to catch a foul ball, but you can reach into it.  So I guess the interpretation was that Blake reached into it and then, only after having caught it, stumbled into it.

I had heard Manning or someone say that the runners advance otherwise -- presumably as a deterrent to a fielder doing something "heroic" and dangerous -- but I can't find any online source on that.  It appears that if the fielder steps foot in the dugout while pursuing a foul ball, the ball is dead.

by Jay on Jun 6, 2007 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
does getting caught in a rundown, then sucessfully getting home count as something different than the stuff mentioned?

by Brick. on Jun 5, 2007 5:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
"Except for Rodriguez, you're all an insult to the game!"

by fleerdon on Jun 5, 2007 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Doesn't Roger Clemens have a special clause in his contract that says when he pitches at home, all yankees only have to get to third to score a run?  i think i read that somewhere...

by Brick. on Jun 5, 2007 5:25 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
I'm very impressed with the lack of innuendo for a thread involving the phrase "score from third base." You'd think AT LEAST half of the comments in a 100-comment thread titled like that would be "massage therapy" or "First, you get the money, then you get the power." I do not participate in your maturity, but I salute you for it nonetheless.

by fleerdon on Jun 5, 2007 10:24 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
You know, I was this close to banning you, then you had to go and redeem yourself...

(inside joke, for anyone wondering)

by Ryan on Jun 6, 2007 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
I don't know what the inside joke is, but I cracked up anyway.

by Jay on Jun 6, 2007 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
Step 1:  Get to third.

Step 2:  Try to score.

Step 3:  Repeat every day.

by Jay on Jun 6, 2007 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Nineteen Ways to Score from Third Base
I'm surprised no one's made any Paul Simon "Fifty Ways to Leave Your Lover" references.  You know, "With a base hit, Kit....on a wild pitch, Rich..."  That sort of thing.

by Jackdaw on Jun 6, 2007 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

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