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Around SBN: Knicks Beat Lakers With Familiar Strategy

Who's Untouchable?

by ploni on Jul 1, 2007 3:40 PM EDT

It's almost the All-Star break and it'll soon be getting down to the trading deadline. The Tribe is seriously in the race for the Central division. But as we all know, there are some parts of our team that must be fixed.

Acknowledging for a moment that those pieces are going to come through trades, who in the organization is absolutely, positively, without-a-question unavailable . . . that is, untouchable?

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Re: Who's Untouchable?

Wedge says he wouldn't trade Victor for any other catcher in the game today. I'm assuming VMart is off the block.

by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 1, 2007 3:42 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Who's Untouchable?

Sizemore, obviously. I'd also have to say that they wouldn't trade Hafner.

"The hibachi is coming to a city near you. I'm cooking chicken and shrimp, but if you want to throw a double team my way, filet mignon gets cooked too"

by Rayman @ Let's Go Tribe! on Jul 1, 2007 3:45 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Who's Untouchable?

There's probably only 3-4 guys on the MLB squad that could be traded. We're not going create a hole to fill a hole on the big league club. If we make a move the primary piece we'd give up would probably come from the minors (although Gutz could fill in at CF for at least a few big league teams right now, and may warrant consideration), and of course you can always flip Michaels for a reliever I'm guessing.

by hans on Jul 1, 2007 4:03 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Who's Untouchable?

Sabathia, Westbrook, Carmona, Betancourt and Adam Miller are all untouchable.

Sabathia - essential to current run.
Westbrook - essential to future contract talks.
Carmona - incredibly valuable to current season and the next five years.
Miller - only elite pitching prospect, probably is already an average major league starter.
Betancourt - only reliably superior reliever.

Grady and Victor are untouchable. I don't know if Peralta is untouchable, exactly, but it would be difficult to get equal value for him considering his contract.

Other than the seven above, nobody else would totally shock me to see in a trade. I don't agree that Hafner is untouchable.

by Jay on Jul 1, 2007 4:09 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Who's Untouchable?

I'd add Hafner there too. He's still an on base machine (and has a year left on his contract) and quite a fan favorite. Its going to nearly impossible to get a player of comparable value for him.

Imagine the Indians moving Hafner and not getting a bonafide star for him. I'm sure heat from the fans will weight on an considerations as well.

by crazymoloh on Jul 1, 2007 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Who's Untouchable?

I'm not advocating that we move Hafner, but he's not untouchable simply because it's conceivable that we could get better by trading him, and he's only under contract for one more year.

We have in a sense been getting by without "the real Hafner" for most of the season.

by Jay on Jul 1, 2007 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Hafner's not going anywhere

The math just doesn't add up.

We can all agree that if we traded Hafner it'd probably be to an AL team right? And since Hafner only has the rest of this season on his contract only a contender would trade for him. I would think it's highly unlikely that Shapiro would trade Hafner to a team that it might be competing with either for the wildcard or in the actual playoffs.

We would have to be overwhelemed. And even if we were offered a great deal,unlikely. I doubt it would include any players that could help us this season since the other team would be in the playoff hunt as well.

by world dictator on Jul 1, 2007 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Hafner's not going anywhere

um, Hafner is under contract through the 2008 season with 2008 club option for $4.75M.

With the money left on his contract, $6.5M is a steal for a player who boasts a career OPS near 1.000.

by crazymoloh on Jul 1, 2007 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Hafner's not going anywhere

Right, so it is conceivable that even a non-contender would trade for him. More likely, a fringe contender like, say, Oakland.

by Jay on Jul 1, 2007 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Hafner's not going anywhere

Touche. I don't know what I was thinking. Though as you mentioned most of the same logic applies. I would have a hard time believing any fringe team would trade for him still. Maybe during the offseason. Besides why would the Indians trade him when he's started to hit again and we're trying to make the playoffs?

(I know you're not advocating his trade Jay, I'm just saying it doesn't make much sense IMO)

by world dictator on Jul 2, 2007 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Hafner's not going anywhere

You'd trade him for a very good all-around outfielder and a solid reliever, for example.

by Jay on Jul 2, 2007 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Hafner's not going anywhere

So, say, Alex Rios and Jeremy Accardo, for example?

by Jackdaw on Jul 2, 2007 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Who's Untouchable?

What could you see us getting for Hafner? I could go for a Chase Utley or a #1 starter.

by crazymoloh on Jul 1, 2007 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Who's Untouchable?

I don't see an NL team trading for Hafner with his inability to play 1B on a consistant basis. He's strictly an AL player. That said, I don't see any way the Indians trade him this year.

by Buckeye Brad on Jul 1, 2007 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Who's Untouchable?

Getting Bedard or Shields would make me cry either.

by crazymoloh on Jul 1, 2007 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Who's Untouchable?

Utley is about as untouchable as any player in the game. You might as well say you want to trade for Jeter.

Hafner is not worth giving up a #1 starter, unless he's just a two-month rental.

by Jay on Jul 1, 2007 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Who's Untouchable?

no offense to Pronk, but if Shapiro manages to trade him for Chase Utley, he officially has Jedi powers.

he may not want to tip his hand just yet.

by nctribefan on Jul 1, 2007 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Who's Untouchable?

Don't know if it's true, but they mentioned on the indiansink forum that Mark Schwab reported (I think Saturday) that the Hafner contract talks were back on; and alluded to the fact that the All-Star Break could be a potential window to announce an extension. If true, he becomes an untouchable through your Westbrook corollary; but not unless he signs an extension.

by cheech99 on Jul 1, 2007 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Who's Untouchable?

Absolutely, yes. An extension would make him untouchable. For that matter, if he had 2-3 years left on his deal from a couple years ago, it would be very tough to trade him a la Peralta, purely based on equal value.

by Jay on Jul 1, 2007 7:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Who's Untouchable?

i'd like to add that i disagree that "there are some parts of our team that must be fixed." this team could got to and succeed in the playoffs exactly as-is... though some upgrades would be good.

the only guys i could see moving from the major league squad in the middle of this season would be Garko or one of the young outfielders... though i imagine corner outfield is one of those spots you're saying must be fixed.

it seems more reasonable for the Tribe to swap prospects for the best value bullpen upgrade available, if anything. aside from the high-profile, expensive outfielders, my incomplete baseball knowledge tells me there may not be any players available at value that would significantly outperform Michaels/Gutz/Francisco/Dellucci over the rest of the season.

by nctribefan on Jul 1, 2007 4:53 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Who's Untouchable?

I contend that the bullpen must be fixed. Whether that should come about through trade or promotion can be argued but there's no way a conscientous front office should go into the second half, and then on into the playoffs, with things as they are. Today's end-of-game drama is a case-in-point.

by ploni on Jul 1, 2007 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Who's Untouchable?

I think the flaw here is that "things as they are" is a pretty nebulous term. If the current bullpen is bad, how long has it been bad? What if the most likely "fix" is just some time and coaching? Today's "drama" came about because of the first genuinely bad outing by Perez in weeks. How is that indicative of anything besides a bad day by Rafael?

I'd argue it shows the depth of our pitching that we had Borowski to come in and take care of business.

There are very, very few relievers who we could trade for with any confidence that they'd be helpful for the rest of the season, and those relievers, by and large, aren't going anywhere for any price lower than a package of superior prospects. What would be unconscionable by the Indians would be to make such a Yankee-esque deal for a problem that is just as likely to self-correct.

by fleerdon on Jul 1, 2007 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Who's Untouchable?

i just got two weird/probably bad ideas:

if the Braves fall out of contention in the coming weeks, Tribe trades Max Ramirez back to them for Wickman. then we'll be at risk for heart attacks in the eight and ninth innings.
Pronk for Otsuka and Gagne.

by nctribefan on Jul 1, 2007 5:20 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Who's Untouchable?

http://www.letsgotribe.com/story/2007/6/25/15041/3823

by fleerdon on Jul 1, 2007 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Who's Untouchable?

haha... i should have thought of that.

by nctribefan on Jul 1, 2007 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Who's Untouchable?

Trot Nixon.

by nickjs21 on Jul 1, 2007 7:35 PM EDT reply actions

Re: Who's Untouchable?

I see where you're going with this. Nobody can touch his amount of suck.

"The hibachi is coming to a city near you. I'm cooking chicken and shrimp, but if you want to throw a double team my way, filet mignon gets cooked too"

by Rayman @ Let's Go Tribe! on Jul 1, 2007 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: Who's Untouchable?

That's why the Indians are going to stand pat this trading season. No one out there we can afford .. and almost everyone on our current team is essential to our run. Except for people like Dellucci and Nixon, but no one will want them.

by Toxicadam on Jul 2, 2007 1:03 AM EDT reply actions

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