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I don't understand Gagne

Why would Eric Gagne prefer to stay with a last place team rather than going to a contender like the Indians who would be a lock for the postseason if he joined them? It can't just be money at this point. He's already rich, and he'll still get lots more cash on an extended deal that Boras will insist upon, he'll get closing opportunities when Borowski's overworked, and he could get a chance to be the closer next year if he outperforms Borowski in spring training. His position [ http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1184499050269620.xml&coll=2] makes no sense to me at all.

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Re: I don't understand Gagne
I don't understand why people still want Gagne on the Indians.
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Jul 15, 2007 11:58 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: I don't understand Gagne
I don't think this post is a matter of wanting Gagne on the tribe, But rather why Gagne wouldn't want to be on the tribe.  The whole idea of being a part of a playoff caliber team, vs being a part of the Rangers is baffling.  I would assume that most veterans would want every opportunity to win a Championship, instead of being so concerned with the finical aspects of their stats, as I am thinking that Gagne's desire to only be traded to a team that will let him be THE Closer, is based on his, and his agent's desire to cash in on a big payday in his next available free agent market.  Non closing relievers, even very good ones, don't earn as much as the closer does.  So in this case it is either agent speak to make sure that he makes the next paycheck, or Gagne really is only concerned with making the biggest pile possible, and if he can win a World Series along the way great, but that is secondary to the cash.

by apatton on Jul 15, 2007 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I don't understand Gagne
Or he thinks that the Indians are not a championship team - heresy.
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on Jul 15, 2007 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I don't understand Gagne
He did choose the Rangers in the off season, so I guess his history of making the judgment call/ prediction of a championship caliber team may actually bring accuracy to your hearsay!

by apatton on Jul 15, 2007 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I don't understand Gagne
Not hearsay: Second-hand evidence, generally consisting of a witness's testimony that he/she heard someone else say something.

But heresy: A teaching which denies a doctrine essential to the existence of the Gospel (Let's Go Tribe)

Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on Jul 15, 2007 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I don't understand Gagne
I hear ya.  Either way, he is wrong!

by apatton on Jul 15, 2007 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I don't understand Gagne
Exactly the point. Well said. And I still can't believe anyone can look at winning and losing that dispassionately and still play this game successfully, as he obviously has done for some time.

by Tribe Fan Matt on Jul 15, 2007 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I don't understand Gagne
Except for the last two years, when he didn't do anything at all.
Cleveland: It's like punching yourself in the face.

by fwembt on Jul 16, 2007 12:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I don't understand Gagne
So somebody, anybody, can pitch in relief besides Cabrera.
Sometimes you just gotta be lucky

by mauichuck on Jul 15, 2007 12:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: I don't understand Gagne
Having closing opprotunities every now and then and being a closer are much different things. Big difference actually. If he really wants to close I can totally understand why he wouldnt want to be with the Indians.

I think you're looking at this in a personal way.Its not an affront to the Indians personally. It's a matter of him not wanting to be on any team where he can't close.

by world dictator on Jul 15, 2007 2:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: I don't understand Gagne
Sure, but I guess I just can't relate to that kind of thinking. Isn't it really all about winning in the end, or does he only get his thrills from closing?

by Tribe Fan Matt on Jul 15, 2007 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I don't understand Gagne
No it's not about just winning in the end. You have to be happy in your position with the team and with your role playing baseball. Plus you have to be comfortable in the way you're being used.

Also, if my stuff was back I would want to go back to being a top notch closer in baseball, or at least try.

by world dictator on Jul 15, 2007 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I don't understand Gagne
I look at it as a business decision, especially since he has the ability to dictate who he gets traded to. Closer's salaries are vastly higher than setup men's salaries. But even if I understand it, that doesn't mean I think it's not self-serving and petty.

by Ryan on Jul 15, 2007 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I don't understand Gagne
I can't find the article, but I'm pretty sure that I read that his 2007 contract includes incentive clauses for games finished...therefore, if he goes somewhere as a setup man, he gets less money this season.

by TribeJay on Jul 16, 2007 12:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I don't understand Gagne
Yes, he does have some $3 million in incentives that he could still earn.

This would be easy to negotiate around -- you just pick a number and lock in those incentives unilaterally -- but wow, what a dumb contract.  If he's useless, $6 million.  If he's okay, $8 million.  If he's very good, $10 million.

Tom Hicks is an idiot.

by Jay on Jul 16, 2007 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I don't understand Gagne
that gammons quote was priceless

by Brick. on Jul 16, 2007 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, that is the guy who paid more than $100
million more than anyone else was willing to pay for A-Rod, so Hicks seems to be in the habit of spending more money than is probably necessary.
Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Jul 16, 2007 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If that's his criteria, then the Yankees, Red Sox,
and probably Tigers would be out too.

Hello everyone,

Gagne wouldn't be made the closer over Rivera or Papelbon, and even though Jones is iffy like Borowski is (not so much in converting the saves, percentage-wise, just in the way they go about doing it,) I'm not sure the Tigers would put Jones in a set-up role for Gagne either, so that's probably another reason why Gagne might not be traded away from the Rangers.

With most of the potential playoff teams, they already have a solid closer in place who's doing the job - Cordero with the Brewers, Saito with the Dodgers, Hoffman with the Padres, Wagner with the Mets, Wickman with the Braves (though he's been a bit shaky of late.)  The Phillies could be a possibility, provided Gordon doesn't come back like he was before his injury, but if he does, the Phillies probably aren't an option.  The Cubs could be if they're dissatisfied with Dempster, but so far, they're staying with him, even through his ups-and-downs, so really, there aren't that many options - Putz with Seattle, Nathan with Minnesota; Oakland could be a possibility with Street out, but really, the Rangers don't have many options to choose from if Gagne wants to go to a team where he can be THE closer.  That's probably why Gagne may remain with the Rangers for the rest of the season.

Just my 2 cents.  :-)

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Jul 15, 2007 5:59 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: I don't understand Gagne
Interesting thing with the JoBo closer thing.  JoBo reportedly would be happy to cede the role to somebody else, like Gagne, but then what happens to JoBo?  He doesn't become the top setup man.  Kind of a weird situation in that respect.

I was curious to look more closely at his numbers.  Since the infamous Yankee blowup, he's got a 3.77 ERA, but there's evidence of bad luck.  He's allowed a .295 average -- 33 for 112 -- but it's an empty one.  .319 OBP, .375 slugging -- four walks and just one sole home run allowed over 29 innings.  Basically, he has turned opposing hitters into Josh Barfield.

32-for-88 on balls in play -- that's a .364 BABIP, which says bad luck/defense.  So I'm saying ... he's actually pretty good, and maybe he isn't playing with fire so much as being only as lucky stranding baserunners as he's been unlucky on balls in play.

So I'm saying, maybe all those Saves aren't an accident.  It'd be nice, anyway.

by Jay on Jul 15, 2007 6:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: I don't understand Gagne
Clarifying the Barfield comparison ... possibly Barfield can run the BABIP thing up consistently because he's fast, and at the peak speed age, too (24).  But the same cannot be said for batters facing Borowski.

by Jay on Jul 15, 2007 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I don't understand Gagne
He's actually been unlucky in LOB% (64.9), although this includes those blow up games.

by hans on Jul 15, 2007 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Would JoeBo push Raffy back to the 7th inning
and Perez to the 6th inning (if need be,) do they split the 7th inning, or does JoeBo take the 7th inning (or split it with Perez) and Raffy keeps the 8th inning?

That would be a weird situation, though quality bullpens will usually have two setup guys, so I guess JoeBo and Raffy could share the setup duties in the 8th, but I'm not sure if both would get enough work to keep both sharp.  

It's interesting JoeBo would still be willing to cede the closer's role, even though he has done a solid job - sounds like the perfect example of a "team guy."  

I'm just not sure Gagne is the answer; I'd think either I'd want Otsuka, Lidge (only because of the link Andrew provided regarding his finding his form again,) or staying with JoeBo and maybe picking up a Dotel or someone on that order to help the middle relief of the bullpen (by pushing guys like Perez and Mastny back to the 6th and 7th innings, with Betancourt and Dotel taking the 8th, and JoeBo the 9th.)

Not sure - but it will be interesting to see how that plays out, as well as the Lofton rumor.

Just my 2 cents.  :-)

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Jul 16, 2007 12:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Would JoeBo push Raffy back to the 7th inning
I've never understood putting relievers into specific inning roles. They don't all pitch every day. If we get a closer, it's not like Borowski and Betancourt have to fight over 8th inning duties. And if bruising Borowski's ego and making him pitch in the 7th inning is our biggest bullpen problem, I think we'd be doing pretty damn well.

by Kos on Jul 16, 2007 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I don't understand Gagne
Jay, that was far more eloquent than the pissing match I was having with mkwng the other day about Borowski. Nicely done.

by supermarioelia on Jul 16, 2007 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: I don't understand Gagne
Thanks, man, I appreciate that.

by Jay on Jul 16, 2007 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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