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by Ryan on Jul 17, 2007 9:33 AM EDT
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PrintSigned Manager Eric Wedge to a three-year extension
If I haven't said much about Wedge over the years, it's not because I'm avoiding talking about him; it's because I don't have a a strong opinion on him either way. He's not a fiery on-field manager, he's not a good quote source, and he's not controversial. He goes out of his way not to react to events on the field. Which is probably a good thing in dealing with players over a long period of time, for the last thing they want is for their manager to bring their issues into the public eye. But it doesn't really clue us outsiders into what's going on inside the clubhouse.
To me, the most important aspect of managing is not the on-field decisions, but dealing with people. Yes, we all love those brilliant or not-so-brilliant tactical moves that sometimes decides a game, but they in reality play little part in the long-term success of a team. Getting a young player or an underperforming player to buy into a system and become a productive contributor is much more valuable than a pitching move on April 16th or even September 16th. The problem with all this is that we know little of how Wedge actually operates behind the scenes, other than viewing the finished result on the field. He has more input than a manager usually has in personnel decisions, but those decisions are ultimately Shapiro's to make.
There's been very few public incidents on Wedge's watch, the only major one being Milton Bradley's expensive cab ride, and time has shown that this was more Bradley than Wedge. Wedge publicly criticized Jhonny Peralta late last season, and Jhonny showed up this year in better shape and has played very similar to how he did in 2005. Players generally like playing for him. He was Grady Sizemore's biggest advocate, but Brandon Phillips' biggest critic. He's slower to give a good young player a starting job than I'd be, but most of the time he'll eventually do it. He's patient with players that have track records, whether they be of the major-league or minor-league variety. And sometimes he's patient beyond what the track record indicates. He's neither an innovator nor a troglodyte, eschewing the bunt but very orthodox with reliever usage. In other words, he's your typical major-league manager.
What does this add up to? Wedge looks like a competent manager, he gets along with Shapiro, and the team's winning. Hence the extension.
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Re: Transactions
by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 17, 2007 9:47 AM EDT reply actions
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blown call
Wedge, thinking: ugh not again, well, here goes nothing...
That's just the feeling I get anyway. Agreed on the points that you make in your last sentence and that Ryan also makes on the whole... and this is where Eric succeeds: keeping the players relatively happy and not making too many boneheaded decisions.
by CarnegieAndOntario on Jul 17, 2007 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
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Wedge has, along with the rest of the coaching/mangement staff all through the system, been incredibly effective at getting players to buy into seeing a ton of pitches.
He needs to start getting to Barfield on this point.
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I do realize this has a lot to do with the kind of players acquired and the way our minor leaguers are taught to hit.
Still, he's the major league managers, so he's got to get some kind of credit for a team that works pitchers like this one.
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by fleerdon on Jul 17, 2007 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
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Wedge is actually refreshing in one regard: he successfully keeps the focus of publicity on player performance. By contrast, some big name managers seem to want the spotlight on themselves much of the time. A low wattage ego, like his, seems to work well with the team.
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by supermarioelia on Jul 17, 2007 11:10 AM EDT reply actions
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Of course, both of Wedges fall in the range of "average" ... but I think he has shown continual improvement from year to year with his in-game decisions. Which is pretty great for us.
I'm just not sure if a competent manager is enough for a small market team to win it all.
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I think that the input of a manager is incredibly overblown as to how it impacts a game. I think that people try to look at baseball the same way they do football, basketball, or hockey and that the manager sets a strategy game to game. In those three that may be the case but much less so in baseball.
Wedge is an easy scapegoat when a pinch-hit doesnt work or a reliever falls apart but if shapiro is happy with him, id certainly defer to his judgement over the fact that Im upset at him because he wouldnt pinch hit Nixon that one time in the 7th on June 3rd.
I also think that saying that Wedge is better now than in 05 or 06 is just a cop out because you werent happy with the final result. There are 25 other better reasons you could find for a teams lack of success. The major league manager is usually a very minor one.
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obviously the players liked this deal.
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Phillips had a great spring training a year and a half ago, to win the backup 2B job, and lost out to Ramon Vazquez who, incidentlaly, had a horrible spirng. Decision made by: Eric Wedge.
Grade: D
In September call-ups the two previous years, Wedge never availed himself of the chance to see what Phillips could do, playing him only in 12 gamds over two seasons, even while starting his entire starting lineup on the last day of a season in which they had a losing record.
Jeremy Guthrie is having a great year in Baltimore. Number of starts Wedge gave Guthrie in his career in Cleveland? One.
In three of his years up until this year, his team came out of spring training, and promptly fell on its face. Fortunately, the team recovered to get hot late in two of the seasons, before ultimately falling shortly; that's something -- by the way -- that is also mirrore din a lot of games the Tribe has played this season, especially against really bad ballclubs (like, umm, last night, for example).
I can remember Jake Westbrook having a 2-0 shutout a few years in the 9th and Wedge didn't have Wickman warming up, even when the tying run came to the plate. Wedge's reasoning, "You HAVE to give Jake a chance to win that game." Huh? He DOES win the game if Wickman is allowed to come in and close it out. I believe that was 2005, a year which, it turned out, they needed only a couple of more wins to go to the playoffs.
I agree that Wedge's style is to pretty much be quiet and not call attention to what's going on the clubhouse. And that is a good thing.
Wedge is not without merit as a Major League manager, but whether he has what it takes to get the team over the hump and playing 9 innings of baseball through the World Series, I don't know.
It would appear that Wedge's year this year has won him a contract. Ironically, Eric Wedge looks best when he's compared to... Eric Wedge.
by BobCollinsMN on Jul 17, 2007 4:40 PM EDT reply actions
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- Stupid people.
- Smart people who haven't been willing to give the matter an honest and detailed look, which would lead them inevitably to conclusion that there's hardly anything there to criticize.
It may not be any fun to consider these questions seriously and in detail. It certainly is no fun to lose the sense of being entitled to complain. After all, complaining is fun.
On the other hand, you do get to stop hanging out with the stupid people.
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I feel as though with a number of these issues that we've discussed at length -- and that you and Ryan have already written about extensively -- that it might be useful to have a handful of links to those discussions, maybe even something to go into the sidebar.
For example, the next time a new poster has a "revelation" about Phillips, what if we could direct him or her to one of the dozens of threads where we fleshed out that issue previously?
This would be a project we'd all have to contribute to. (Read: I'm not trying to give my forum moderators homework.) But rather than have to go through divisive discussions all over again, would it be easier to refer new posters to some highlights from the archives? Or is it better for LGT to have them do that work themselves?
by fleerdon on Jul 17, 2007 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
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Andrew, you're the expert, back me up on this. Poop. Funny, right?
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by fleerdon on Jul 17, 2007 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions
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Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to get back to work on that Choo/Blake platoon I suggested in one of my first posts because WE NEED CORNER PRODUCTION CAN'T YOU UNDERSTAND.
by fleerdon on Jul 17, 2007 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions
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by johnnyromano on Jul 17, 2007 4:52 PM EDT reply actions
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When you have to deal with a very low payroll, and you are building from within the system, you can't afford to have "ANY" cancers in the clubhouse. I personally don't know if Phillips was a cancer, but it has been intimated as such. I think dumping him and Game Board were in the best interest of the Tribe long term.
I'm not ever going to say that Wedge is the best manager out there. But I'm not sure there are a lot of others that are or will be available that I would rather have.
by johnnyromano on Jul 17, 2007 6:36 PM EDT reply actions
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As mcrose points out, Shapiro has admitted that letting BP go was a mistake. I agree with that. But there was little sign at the time that he would be more than a fringe contributor, as evidenced by the lack of a significant trade offer for him (as with Guthrie). Ironically, had Vazquez been on another team, we could not have traded BP for him. That's how bad the overall assessment was on the guy. (It's not like he was totally killing the ball in Triple-A, like a certain guy we took from another team.)
The mistake in that situation wasn't so much in the evaluation but in the fact that there was no really good reason to give him up. The Indians place a high premium on character and teammate attributes; I believe this is not just a values-based philosophy, but part of a larger strategy to induce more players to sign team-friendly contracts. That said, BP's talent was probably underrated, and his cancerosity was probably overrated -- although he remains a second-tier prima donna in Cincinnati.
Anyway, the "those guys aren't so good anyway" isn't the intelligent defense. The intelligent defense is, simply, nobody thought these guys were likely to be any good, at that time, and a contending team doesn't get to roll the dice as many times as a crummy one.
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- Not all that bad as far as mistakes go, especially if you consider the evidence at the time.
- Probably a whole lot fewer mistakes than the average Management team will make.
by dave @ Let's Go Tribe! on Jul 17, 2007 8:47 PM EDT up reply actions
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And oh yeah, Wedge himself has gotten more adaptive since then. That's my major kudo for him this year, he's showing a lot more readiness to give chances and reward good performance with playing time. Last test: when he breaks down and sits Nixon against a righty in favor of Gutz. He just couldn't bring himself to do it tonite, so he compromised and sat Michaels instead. Soon, tho...
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They should've waited until a little "x" sits next to "Cleveland" in the standings.
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This is not to say he doesn't have his positives. He obviously is a good motivational speaker. As stated, he does appear to have the ability to continue the development of players. And, as someone else pointed out, he gets along with Shapiro (in who I do have complete trust) very well.
Where does all this leave my opinion? If it somehow helps to get CC resigned (since that is what we all need to be obsessing about constantly THIS SEASON) then it's a great thing. Otherwise, I wish they would have waited until the results were in from this year before doing this. Just remember, Wedge hasn't lead this talented group of players anywhere yet. But if nothing else, it gives me something to complain about these next 3 years. And for someone who looks at this team with love and rose tinted glasses - that might not be such a bad thing.
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If it's OK with you, I'm going to obsess about winning the world series.
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