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Shapiro and the Draft

With all the talk about the draft deadline, and the porcello signing in particular, I had read some posters complaints of Shapiro's drafts, and I started to get curious about how those drafts have turned/turning out.

I started with the 2006 draft and stopped at the 2001 draft which I believe was the first official Shapiro draft.  I have listed the notable players, along with where they are now, and some very crude commentary.  It seems to me that are drafts haven't been as successful as they could be, but that might have something to do with the excellent job that Shapiro has done in Latin America, aquiring prospects via trades, or a reflection of the difficulties of the mlb amatuer draft.  I don't think these are terrible drafts, but simply average, and given our successes in other areas, I would expect a little more.  I haven't gone through other team's drafts during this time period, so maybe it is better than I than I think. I was wondering what the thoughts were on this?

2006 draft

  1. David huff-lhp-High A- hurt
  2. Josh Rodriguez-ss-high a-won't stay at short, but has hit for some power
3.Wes Hodges-3b-high a-playing good, start next year at akron
  1. Matt Mcbride-c-low a-lot of doubles, no word on his d, should start next year at Kinston
  2. Steven Wright-rhp-has gotten hit pretty hard, but nice k/9
  3. Adam davis-ss/2b-low a-inconsistent year, going nowhere
  4. Ryan morris-lhp-young, looked good in rookie ball, hasn't had success at low a yet
  5. Jared Goedert-3b/2b-high a-tore up low a, hasn't had  success at high a yet
2005 draft
  1. Trevor crowe-cf-aa-has not had success at aa yet for a full season.  Struggled there to end last year, and first half of this year.  Has picked it up of late, but still a major disappointment.
  2. John Drennan-of-at high a, young for his level, has struggled at high a, seems to have a hole in his swing, lots of ks.
  3. Steven head-1b-aa-never had success at high a, but got promoted anyway.  Doubtful that he will ever contribute.
  4. Jensen Lewis-rhp-Cleveland-is a member of the Indians bullpen, should become a solid middle innings guy.
  5. Nicholas Weglarz-lf-low a-young and mashing the ball, has tremendous power and good eye, 3 true outcomes guy, might not be able to stay in left.
  6. Jordan Brown-1b/of-aa-is banged up right now, but has had a good year, high average, lots of doubles, but needs to turn some into homers.  Would help if he can play left also.
  7. The rest-some college pitchers in high a, pitching okay, and an outfielder struggling in low a.
2004 draft
  1. Jeremy Sowers-lhp-aaa-had success with the big league club last year, despite bad peripherals, came back to earth and then some this year.  Has been demoted, and can't seem to find the success he had there the first time around.
  2. Justin Hoyman-rhp-hurt I guess, haven't heard much from him.
  3. Scott Lewis-lhp-aa-pitched good, not great, but still only 23.  Not sure if he will start next year in aa or aaa.
  4. Chuck Lofgren-lhp-aa-has hit a bit of a bump at aa, hasn't been able to match the success he had at lower levels, but still 21.
  5. Tony Sipp-lhp-hurt, but may still be a contributor from the pen.
2003 draft
  1. Mike Aubrey-1b-aa-he is hurt for the 27th time, and is probably done
  2. Adam Miller-rhp-aaa-hurt again, has massive potential, but needs to stay on the diamond.
  3. Brad Snyder-of-aaa-hurt, done.
  4. Ryan Garko-1b-Cleveland-is a major contributor for the tribe.
  5. Kevin Kouzmanoff-3b-San Diego-was traded, along with Andrew brown for Josh Barfield.
  6. Aaron Laffey-lhp-aaa-had a brief stint with Indians, should be a member of the 2008 rotation.
2002 draft
  1. Jeremy Guthrie-rhp-Baltimore-never contributed to the Indians
  2. Micah Schilling-2b-flop
  3. Matt Whitney-1b-high a-has started to play well at Kinston, 23, was set back by a freak accident in which is leg was broken badly.  Hasn't shown plate discipline, but has hit for major power, and decent average this year between low and high a.
  4. Brian Slocum-rhp-aaa-hurt, but may still contribute, but not likely.
2001 draft

1. Luke scott used as part of trade for Jerome Robertson.  Everything else is pretty much empty.

Feel free to add anyone that I have forgotten and sorry for the long first post.

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Re: Shapiro and the Draft
I feel that people give Shapiro too much credit with the draft. I don't think the guy has had a good draft yet.

Also, anyone know Miller's status right now?

The poster formerly known as JRam.

by Joe on Aug 18, 2007 3:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
I'm I the only one thinking that 2003 draft could be, at the very least, considered a good draft by the organization?

by supermarioelia on Aug 18, 2007 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
If Laffey and Garko keep playing well then definitely. Even if Miller doesn't pan out.
I heard that L.Carr is only going to dress 25 players this Sat........the rest can dress themselves!

by gahnki on Aug 18, 2007 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
I have to just say it -- you guys just have no concept of reality on what a successful draft is.  The Indians 2003 draft has already produced two everyday position players in Garko and Kouzmanoff.  It has a very high chance of producing a major league starter, and very possibly two.

Snyder, Mulhern and Goleski are all going to have at least a cup of coffee at some point, maybe even Aubrey.

This is, by any standard, an enormously successful draft.  If every draft was this productive, you could replenish your whole team with the draft alone very five years -- no free agents, no international signings and no trades.

by Jay on Aug 18, 2007 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
Yeah I was trying to be conservative out of fear of talking outside of my comfort zone, but that list of players from 2003 seemed pretty unreal to me. The above bashing of every draft just didn't make sense.

Even the NHL where you rely entirely on the draft for talent, you'll be lucky to get that many guys pan out from a given year.

by supermarioelia on Aug 18, 2007 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
My view was that the 2003 draft has helped the 2007 Indians a reasonable amount. I don't think you can judge it until the current players in the minors actually benefit the big league club. Garko has been a big success. He hits to all fields and shows good patience. In the majors, he has become an even better hitter than he was in the minors. Kouzmanoff was used to acquire Barfield, but Barfield hasn't panned out yet. He definitely has talent and the time off may help him clear his head. Laffey gave us two solid starts and could very well be traded. I have to imagine that his value has increased with the starts.

If the others in the draft pan out as well, then it is an exceptional draft. If they don't, the draft hinges on Garko, Barfield, and Laffey. That is all from my point of view, of course.

I heard that L.Carr is only going to dress 25 players this Sat........the rest can dress themselves!

by gahnki on Aug 19, 2007 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
Gahnki, you need to look at some other teams' drafts.  I already established in another thread that no player drafted by the Yankees since 1997 has even become a major league starter.  In other words, the Indians 2003 draft has already produced more than the last 12 Yankees drafts.

You're going to make me quote my own last post:

If every draft was this productive, you could replenish your whole team with the draft alone very five years -- no free agents, no international signings and no trades.

In other words, this can't possibly be anything but an above-average draft, because if this were the average, there would be no international signings or veterans beyond five years.

by Jay on Aug 19, 2007 11:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
I understand that it's a good draft, but I'm judging it by how much it's helping the 2007 Indians. Next year it could be helping us a great deal more. I'm not trying to say that this draft couldn't end up exceptional, but I'm saying that until the others (Snyder, Goleski, and Mulhern) benefit the big league club, it all hinges on Garko, Barfield, and Laffey.

Anyway, the Yankees are the worst possible team to compare our drafts to. We live and die by our farm system while the Yankees don't.

I heard that L.Carr is only going to dress 25 players this Sat........the rest can dress themselves!

by gahnki on Aug 19, 2007 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
You're right, obviously the Yankees make for unreasonably poor competition in this area.

So now we have folks saying on the one hand, the Indians should take more risks, which generally means high school guys, and on the other hand, you're saying you want the 2003 draft to help the 2007 club.

Well, you can't please everyone, that much is clear.  Tell you what, why don't you check out how our divisional rivals are doing in that respect?  Here's the links:

Tigers
Royals
White Sox
Twins

by Jay on Aug 20, 2007 12:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
Cool.  The Royals drafted (but failed to sign) Ryan Braun in the 6th round of the 2003.  As a pitcher, according to this list.  Plus they found another Adam Miller in the later rounds.  

by homelytourist on Aug 20, 2007 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
I'm pretty sure the link is incorrect. That looks like the Ryan Z. Braun that pitched for them this year. I'm pretty sure 3B Ryan "I never make an out" Braun didn't go to UNLV.

by Kos @ Let's Go Tribe! on Aug 20, 2007 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
I'm saying that the 2003 draft class can't be judged until they help the big league team. The 2007 Indians have been helped a moderate amount and that constitutes a good class. Next year, for example, if Laffey is a fixture in the rotation or we trade him, the 2003 class would be beneficial to the 2008 Indians. That would raise the value of the 2003 Indians draft class. This is just my way of viewing the drafts.
I heard that L.Carr is only going to dress 25 players this Sat........the rest can dress themselves!

by gahnki on Aug 20, 2007 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
A moderate amount?  Are you high?

The 2003 draft has only provided our best hitter this year and our starting 2B.  Even ignoring a couple spot starts from Laffey, that's more than a "moderate" amount of help!

by Jay on Aug 20, 2007 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
Our starting 2b?
The poster formerly known as JRam.

by Joe on Aug 21, 2007 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
Yes.  We used Kevin Kouzmanoff, from the 2003 draft, to acquire Josh Barfield, who started at 2B and was slightly above replacement level, for minimum salary, for 4.5 months.

by Jay on Aug 21, 2007 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
Was he really above replacement level? I think the guy hurt more than he helped.
The poster formerly known as JRam.

by Joe on Aug 21, 2007 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
His offense was below replacement level, his defense well above.  Defense counts!

You might think he hurt the team, but somebody's going to play 2B.  Do you think he hurt the team by blocking Hector Luna?  That ultimately is the question.

by Jay on Aug 21, 2007 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
Yeah, the Barfield trade grade is on hold for now. If he becomes the starter again and hits then it can be deemed a success. If the Tribe didn't get Barfield they would have found someone else. They really weren't prepared to hand Luna the starters job uncontested.

Victor Martinez has something to say about the best hitter on the team coming from the 2003 draft. He's waiting for you in the parking lot.

I heard that L.Carr is only going to dress 25 players this Sat........the rest can dress themselves!

by gahnki on Aug 21, 2007 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
We weren't talking about the Barfield trade.  We were talking about the 2003 draft -- which produced a player of sufficient quality that we could trade for a young, starting 2B.  The fact that he's had a disappointing year is beside the point.

Unless the point is to twist every conversation around into saying something bad about a player or decision.

Not sure what you're talking about with Victor.

by Jay on Aug 21, 2007 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
"The 2003 draft has only provided our best hitter this year and our starting 2B."

You said that Ryan Garko is our best hitter this year. He has had a tremendous year, but I think that Victor would disagree with your statement. I'm not trying to twist anything, just stating that the 2003 draft has helped the 2007 Indians a moderate amount. For a small market club, we need to prosper in the draft. Our starting first basemen and formerly starting second basemen came from that draft. So did Laffey. Garko has certainly made that draft worthwhile and Barfield's performance is certainly important in regards to that draft. He is what we have gained from that draft, so he becomes part of that draft's value. This is all from my point of view, of course.

I heard that L.Carr is only going to dress 25 players this Sat........the rest can dress themselves!

by gahnki on Aug 21, 2007 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
I saw Barfield's WARP today, 0.7.  We also traded Andrew Brown, who I think would look pretty nice in our bullpen.

I didn't realize Kouzmanoff had played so poorly, apparrently his defense was atrocious.  I don't think he sticks unless he gets that turned around.  

by ClarkM on Aug 21, 2007 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
Good point about Brown, but you have to remember that he was a very inconsistent pitcher who was out of options -- and we already had too many guys who were out of options.  We let go of Oldberto, J.D. and K-brera -- do you think it would have ended any differently for Brown?

by Jay on Aug 21, 2007 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
man, when we are in development/rebuilding mode people complain about not winning and spending money.  when we are in contention mode people complain when we give up on fringe developmental projects.  man, pick a complaint and stick with it...

by Brick. on Aug 21, 2007 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
I mention Brown, not to complain about the trade.  I bring him up because we were talking about the 2003 draft, and Jay said that it produced our starting second baseman, and I was simply adding that Brown was also part of that trade.  It wasn't enough to trade Kouz for Barfield straight up.  Obviously, Kouz was the main part of that trade, but Brown was a talent who hadn't shown he could harness it.  

by ClarkM on Aug 21, 2007 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
agreed.  and absolutely not meant to single you out here about this issue (actually why i replied to jay so noone thought that).  it's more of a pet peave of mine.  i think it's a good thing that we can't spend every year havng glorified tryouts seeing who can help us someday so we never loose out on anyone.  it means we get to points where it's time to contend.

by Brick. on Aug 21, 2007 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
Yeah, I agree with you.  That is one of the reasons I was miffed that we didn't deal Francisco at the deadline (if the dotel deal was true).  I don't see where he has a future with this team.

by ClarkM on Aug 21, 2007 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
Yeah, I agree with you on that part, maybe I didn't make that entirely clear.

by Jay on Aug 21, 2007 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
Reminds me of something I've been meaning to mention ... I think anyone signing a one-year, minor league deal should automatically get an option.  Or at least, that should be something the player can negotiate with the team, whether he can be sent back down once called up.  It would get them more money, too.

by Jay on Aug 21, 2007 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
His defense is above replacement level but the majority of the second basemen in the American League are as well. Barfield's defense at second base is average at best. I know I will get creamed for that comment but I have statistical proof to back it.

What metric do you guys like? I have three!

  1. Errors. I consider myself a decently knowledgeable baseball fan so I would never just use this statistic to rate a player's defense. Still, I will use this statistic first to start things off simply. Of all 12 second basemen that qualify in the American League, Barfield is second to last in errors made! The guy can make all the pretty plays he wants but he has a propensity to mess up on some simple plays. He does have good range but his throwing ability is rather subpar.

  2. FRAA (or Fielding Runs Above Average). This statistic, created by Baseball Prospectus, is not the best metric in the world but it is a step up from errors. In this metric, Barfield is ranked 6th out of the 12 qualifying defenders at second base. That is barely above average, not "well above." Barely above average does not even come close to cutting it for one of the worst hitters in MLB.

  3. UZR (or Unlimited Zone Rating). This is the most advanced defensive statistic ever created. Tangotiger is the man behind this statistic. According to Unlimited Zone Rating, Barfield is the second worst second baseman in the American League. Just like he was according to errors.

So what I am wondering is: what are we going by when we say Barfield is such a good defender? The random really athletic plays he makes? I don't really think that is a very good gauge of how good of a defender he is. He might be above replacement level but he certainly is not above average. Not even close. And that's all that matters.
The poster formerly known as JRam.

by Joe on Aug 21, 2007 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
This all bears further discussion, nice work.  I will just mention that I never said he was well above average, I said he was well above replacement level.

Errors are not to be ignored, but you have to consider the effect of a (single-base) error as the same as turning an out into a walk.  We emphasize this all the time as being really important, but the difference between between the most and least error-prone 2B is about two errors per month.

That equates to a difference of 20 points of OBP, out of one spot in the lineup.  Signficant, but not enormously significant.  The best and worst on-base guys are, of course, not 20 points apart, but more like 120 points apart.

by Jay on Aug 21, 2007 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
A few general comments.

  • Shapiro's first draft was 2002, although Mirabelli has had direct responsibility for that area for several years longer.
  • There's way too much fan emphasis on the draft, which defines the talent stream in the NBA and NFL but is just one part of the picture for MLB.  It has become less significant than international signings, and at least for these Indians, less significant than acquiring prospects in trades.
  • You can't really judge a draft until 4-5 years out.  You can start assessing it after 2-3 years, particularly the college guys, but certainly not the high school guys.
  • Your evaluations of individual guys tend to be of the "what's happened in the past 45 days variety.  I wouldn't disagree with many, but you have to take a very long view on player development to understand any part of it.

Two specific player comments that deserve a tweak:

  • It isn't a done deal that Josh Rodriguez won't stay at SS, but he has enough range for 2B and enough arm for 3B.  If he keeps hitting, it's a big deal at any skill position.
  • What makes you think Jensen Lewis only projects as a solid middle reliever?  Hell, he just got here and is only 23, and he's already a solid middle reliever.  His stuff, stats and age suggest he's a bona fide setup/closer prospect.

Other than that, I thought your comments were reasonably well balanced.

I think you would be surprised to find that only a handful of teams are really doing better than this, and those teams have done so with a raft of elite draft picks acquired through spending a half-decade in the cellar, e.g., Tampa Bay or Arizona.  Anaheim and Atlanta are probably the best examples of getting good talent through the draft without top-five picks to work with.

by Jay on Aug 18, 2007 3:34 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
I was basing my comment on rodriguez not staying at short, on what Kevin Goldstein said a week ago.

by ClarkM on Aug 18, 2007 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
I think the general consensus is pretty true, that under Shap and Mirabelli, the Tribe farm system (especially that part resulting from the draft) has become deep with decent to good players, but with few blue chippers. Hard to argue with that in the context of rebuilding a farm system, but now that is largely complete to the point where there is stiff competition for roster spots internally, I would love to see more risk taking, especially early in the draft.

When you compare our top picks over the last 2-3 years to what was available, the general rule still seems to be "go safe", where the transition to pro ball (becoming a successfl minor leaguer) outweighs the potential as a major league player. Crowe, Drennen and Huff in particular reflect this: they were all safe bets to hit the ground running in the minors, but the eventual ML payoff does not seem to project to anything special.

by mcrose on Aug 18, 2007 4:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
now that is largely complete to the point where there is stiff competition for roster spots internally, I would love to see more risk taking, especially early in the draft.

Well said.

by CaptainEasy on Aug 18, 2007 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
The system is short on blue-chippers, but that's largely because its blue-chippers are no longer prospects.  You've got Victor, Betancourt, Lee, Peralta and Sizemore all in their third or fourth years, and more recently Carmona, Garko, Shoppach, Gutierrez, Perez, Francisco, Marte, Mastny, Sowers ...

We can talk all day about "blue chippers," but the Indians have an enormous number of young major leaguers.  Guys like Peralta, Carmona and Perez were never considered blue-chippers by the scouterazzi, but should we care?

by Jay on Aug 18, 2007 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
Love the "scouterazzi" line.
Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Aug 18, 2007 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
Hey, I'm in that corner banging the drum loudly. The young guys have basically saved the team's ass this year when most all of them were not expected to even see more than a cuppa joe at the end of the year. Their play has opened everybody's eyes to the  reality that a good farm system can help the major league club in many ways.

My observation is a pretty narrow one that the talent depth is already here, allowing for more risk in the initial phase of the draft.

by mcrose on Aug 18, 2007 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
I haven't had time to really dissect the claims, but my sense is that they're BS, too.  The Indians haven't had the picks to use on high-risk guys.  Look at that 2003 draft, last time we had a bunch of high picks.

You think Brad Snyder and Adam Miller weren't high ceiling enough?  Ridiculous.  Snyder is a five-tool guy, Miller was a high school flamethrower.  Those are the high-risk guys.  The 2001 draft was chock full of high-ceiling high school pitchers, i.e., "busts."

If the Indians have been more conservative recently -- if -- it would only be because they want guys who can contribute in the next 2-6 years.  Those generally will be college guys.

Keep in mind, also, that even after the "big rebuild" was done, the Indians continue to acquire prospects through trades whenever the opportunity presents itself.  Hence Gutierrez, Brown, Dubois, Choo, Nottingham, Rosario ...

And, oh yeah ... AstroCab.

by Jay on Aug 18, 2007 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
If the point your making is that any first round pick is a risk, that's very true - and that should be mantra #1 for anyone rebuilding a farm system. After the farm system is robust you have the room to  change the tune a little is all.

The 2003 draft was an exceptional one for college hitters, and after we landed Aubrey at #11, arguably the best pure bat in the draft, Snyder wasn't that much of a risk considering the overall redundancy - we got Aubrey, Garko, Kouz, Snyder, Mulhern and Goleski on the same day. The only head scratcher was Javi Herrerra in the second round. No, in 2003 they could play it safe and use the third pick on Miller without incurring that much overall risk, because of the wealth of pro-ready bats they could draft.

A couple years later they could have drafted a Snyder-type guy that profiled well in tools and size for the major leagues - Travis Buck. A little more riding on the pick than in 2003 because it was their first pick and the depth of college bats not as great - and they went with Crowe, a slightly better college player than Buck, but with a lower ML ceiling.

by mcrose on Aug 19, 2007 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
On the international front, the market is pretty inflated right now, with millions being thrown at 16 yr olds - the Tribe isn't as active this year, but did make a couple signings over $100K (from BA subscription article):

"The Indians signed two players over the $100,000 watermark, inking Dominican shortstop Ramon De Paula for $130,000 and Venezuelan lefthander Elvis Araujo ($125,000)."

De Paula is a "glove-first" shortstop, Araujo a projectable soft tossing lefty, both presumably heading for the Tribe's Dominican academy and DSL club.

by mcrose on Aug 18, 2007 5:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
Luke Scott for J. Robertson = bad trade

by JulioBernazard on Aug 18, 2007 5:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
Is it really even worth saying "bad trade" when the guy we gave up has yet to amount to as much as Jody Gerut?

by Jay on Aug 18, 2007 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
When the guy we got did nothing but pitch his final 8 games in the bigs with us, I'd say it's a crud trade.

by JulioBernazard on Aug 19, 2007 2:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
Basically we traded nothing for nothing, to which I give a big shrug.

by zempf on Aug 19, 2007 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
Exactly.

Julio, by your logic, you should also be saying -- "Arthur Rhodes for Jason Michaels -- great trade."

by Jay on Aug 19, 2007 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
I don't think that Trevor Crowe has been a disappointment. Just because someone struggles at first doesn't mean they won't end up good. Crowe has been tearing up AA and he will probably start next year at AAA. That's pretty good for a member of the 2005 draft.
I heard that L.Carr is only going to dress 25 players this Sat........the rest can dress themselves!

by gahnki on Aug 18, 2007 6:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
No, it really isn't.  Crowe has more or less ruled himself out as an impact player, and we'd be grateful if he became a useful role player at this point.  I think it would be more accurate to say, he's done a hell of a job devaluing himself in only two years since being drafted.

by Jay on Aug 18, 2007 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
The 2002 draft also included Ben Francisco, who at least profiles as a solid 4th-5th outfielder, a good result for a 5th round draft pick.

I agree with the posters above that the 2003 draft looks very successful.  As Jay pointed out, you already have two major league regulars.  To put that in perspective, consider this: Garko and Kouzmanoff are both just short of 400 plate appearances this year, what I consider to be a regular.  Before this year, the most recently drafted position player to become a regular -  Dustan Mohr, marginally, a 1997 draftee who barely crossed the 400 PA threshold, for the first and last time, in 2002 (Ryan Church, class of 2000 also made it this year).  Other than that, you have to go back to the first round pick of 1995, Sean Casey.  It's hard to come up with solid major league talent in the draft, and to have two guys who are already demonstrating that level of ability from the 2003 draft is a big deal.

Considering that you've still got Miller looking like a future contributor, plus the possibility of Snyder, or Mulhern, or Goleski offering some upside, it looks like 2003 may be the best draft class since 1991.

by InfiniteMonkeyTypists on Aug 18, 2007 11:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Re: Shapiro and the Draft
Laffey could enter the rotation in the next 1-2 years. Gotta think he could - if the groundball and strikeout rates are for real - turn out to be the 2nd best of the bunch (still hoping for big things from Miller).

by Gradyforpresident on Aug 19, 2007 3:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

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LGT, in the belly of the beast.
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LGT Safeco Field Meet Up?
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Indians by the Numbers — #33

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Will Matt LaPorta be on the opening day roster?
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Beltre's three-run homer in the 11th inning Saturday was the first allowed...

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