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Lee to the bullpen

The Plain Dealer reports that Cliff Lee will be rejoining Cleveland in a relief role.  

Link: http://www.cleveland.com/tribe/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/sports/1188721986114250.xml&coll=2&am p;thispage=1

The article includes some fluff quotes from Wedge and Lee on how they "still think of Lee as a starter" and how Lee feels like he needs to prove himself.  

I can't say I like Lee pitching out of the bullpen, except in blowout situations.  You know he can't be too happy about going to the pen either.  On the other hand, it may allow some of our relievers some extra rest down the stretch, but that depends on how he's used.

So is this a good move to bolster the pen or a disaster waiting to happen?  

0 recs  |  Comment 20 comments

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Re: Lee to the bullpen
Seems like Wedge has confidence in 4-5 guys at the most at this point.  I see two possibilities with Lee.

  1. He wins Wedge's confidence and gets a chance to contribute.
  2. He doesn't win Wedge's confidence and doesn't get a chance to contribute.

How can either of those be a downgrade over the present setup?

by Jay on Sep 2, 2007 10:16 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee to the bullpen
Its interesting that they wanted to change his mechanics in the the spring, but didn't get alot of work done as he ended up being injured. I think (barring trading him away this offseason) he'll have this overhaul on his throwing style this offseason because the Indians new he was heading towards trouble or they wouldn't have tried to change his approach. I certainly wouldn't count him out as being a good fourth or fifth starter for us next year if changes are made and he responds with better control (better K:BB ratio).

by hans on Sep 2, 2007 11:44 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee to the bullpen
I think Lee would be like JoBo in none save situations.
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Sep 2, 2007 12:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee to the bullpen
Howz U like Fazball Comin for ur headz.

-LolSleepyKitty

by Ghostof WillHartley on Sep 2, 2007 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee to the bullpen
honestly. the disparity between lee and JoBos stuff is very small, but JoBo has much better composure.
c'mon now dawg....

by GermanysTribeFan on Sep 2, 2007 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee to the bullpen
24 pitches, 1IP, 1BB, 1K, 1ER

blech

by gte619n on Sep 2, 2007 4:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee to the bullpen
Sounds like a Cliff Lee start .. 5IP, 5ER, 5K, 5BB

by Toxicadam on Sep 2, 2007 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee to the bullpen
You forgot the 120 pitches.
Appalachian State-34 Michigan-32

by gahnki on Sep 3, 2007 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee to the bullpen
The quotes from Lee in the PD don't inspire confidence.  He's a guy who lived by throwing inside; once the league figured that out, they camped out on the inside pitch.  The Indians tried to get him to pitch more on the outside corner, but he clearly both resisted and got messed up in the process.  He doesn't seem to reallze that he hasn't adjusted ("I don't really know why they sent me to Buffalo,"  "maybe they thought I wasn't their best option").  He's guy I'd try to trade, if he still has value -- he probably does, since he's a lefty, has had some success, and isn't all that old.  I'd rather renew Byrd for a year and wait for Laffey or Adam Miller to develop into a major league starter than count on Lee recovering his 17-game-winner form.

by peter m on Sep 3, 2007 12:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee to the bullpen
And the SP market is weak this year. I'm sure we could get some decent prospects for him. Or even Lee + Fransisco for some MLB help.
Appalachian State-34 Michigan-32

by gahnki on Sep 3, 2007 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee to the bullpen
I'm curious about the crowd that considers Francisco trade bait. I get that he might fetch something decent, but what if he's better than Jason Michaels?

by fleerdon on Sep 4, 2007 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee to the bullpen
Better yet, what if he turns out to be better than Gootz?
LeBron must GO!

by mauichuck on Sep 4, 2007 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee to the bullpen
I'm with you.  Why trade Francisco unless you get something really good in exchange?  Nixon and Lofton will be gone next year.  Dellucci should be (but probably won't).  Michaels is certainly expendable.  Francisco, at worst, is a solid fourth outfielder.  Why not keep him, save the money you spent on Nixon/Michaels/Lee and go after a big bat for one of the outfield spots.

by peter m on Sep 4, 2007 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee to the bullpen
"Big bat" = fantasy.  You presumably think the Indians should have signed Carlos Lee.  They won't bring Nixon back, but they're not going to save significant money by getting rid of Michaels.

by Jay on Sep 4, 2007 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee to the bullpen
I dunno. I hear the clubhouse bill for hair conditioner and peroxide is obscene.

by fleerdon on Sep 4, 2007 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee to the bullpen
don't forget the cases of bronzing lotion they go through in the offseason.

i'm totally fine with Dellicheals, Sizemore, Gutz as starters.  Trade Choo and Lee for, I don't know - Maz Ramirez.  Franciso as '4th' OF.

by Brick. on Sep 4, 2007 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee to the bullpen
Carlos Lee isn't a big bat.  He's just big.  I had in mind someone who could actually play baseball.

Maybe you're right that there's not enough money there to get a really viable hitter, but that's what they still need.  There's several million dollars sunk in the package of Lee, Nixon and Michaels.  Not enough for Carlos Lee, to be sure, but might be enough to pay for the kind of hitter you'd get in return for Lee from a club that needs pitching badly.

by peter m on Sep 4, 2007 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee to the bullpen
First thing is, who are these hypothetical hitters that you think can be acquired for Cliff Lee, paid a significant but reasonable sum of money, and that are likely to outproduce our best combination of Michaels, Dellucci, Choo and Francisco?

Development more and more is the name of the game.  Most players changing hands in trades are role players needed to fill holes, not star players who can significantly upgrade a position where there is no hole.

And as for free agents, there are practically no good ones anymore, which is why the mediocrities are getting so much money.  Development is king, now more than ever.  Get used to it.

by Jay on Sep 4, 2007 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee to the bullpen
I was thinking exactly about development.  Trade for a AAA or AA hitter or two (didn't they trade Ryan Drese for Hafner?  someone like that anyway) with potential and keep the money so that, if and when the hitter develops, you're in a position to actually sign them.  I don't understand why the Indians sunk money into Dellucci, Nixon, Roberto Hernandez and even Michaels (although he's not a dead loss like the others).  That's 6 million dollars or more, if I remember correctly, that could be applied to signing CC or someone else down the road.

Development is great, but look at the A's -- you also have to keep some of the players you develop.  So don't waste money on "proven veterans" with limited ability.

by peter m on Sep 4, 2007 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: Lee to the bullpen
I think you're missing the bigger picture on "wasting money."  The platoon signings may look similar to, say, any Pirates free agent signing of the last ten years, but they're not.  These are short-term deals, and the money is a lot less -- or rather, it's the same money the Pirates were paying five years ago, and the market has moved.

Couple'a funny things about that market, which we know has tightened considerably.  One, the obvious one, is that the few available players are not that great and very expensive.  The other less obvious effect is that it's become extremely hard to spend any free agent money effectively.

As a result, we have the Indians signing a bunch of veterans to one-year deals because, well, they have $20 million to spend and nothing great to spend it on.  So they spend it on something decent, and highly targeted to an area of need, i.e., depth.  Without signing any free agents, they had solid-average and All-Star guys everywhere on the roster except 2B -- which they quickly addressed by acquiring Barfield.  Where they spent money, mainly, was on making sure they had depth everywhere.

For example, we had enough major league ready-ish relievers without signing anyone -- Betancourt, Miller, Davis, Cabrera, Mastny, Lara, Sipp, Mujica, Perez.  That's nine guys for seven spots, plenty, right?  Wrong -- of course.  We signed four more guys, and those 13 have barely been enough.  Foulke retired, of course.  Cabrera and Davis self-destructed.  Sipp and Miller got injured.  Mujica and Mastny have been shakey.  So that takes us from 13 down to 5, so it's a good thing that Jensen Lewis came out of nowhere and Mastny is willing to sit and do nothing for three months.

How does this relate to the outfield?  Well, we had Blake, Michaels, Choo, Gutierrez and Francisco for the corners.  But could we be certain that they would be healthy and acceptably productive?  Hell, no.  So we used the free agent money to fortify against injury and poor performance.  The fact that the injury and poor performance has afflicted our veterans a little more than our rookies is beside the point -- the point is that there's strength in numbers.  If you don't sign those guys, then what do you do if Choo gets injured and Marte struggles?  Hang the fate of your season on Michaels and Gutierrez.

Well, actually, you could do that.  Teams have succeeded by doing worse.  But it comes back again to the question, was there really anything better to do with the money?  We improved our depth to the point where we basically guaranteed that we would get average production out of virtually every spot on the roster, outside of an aberrant month here or there.

And that's why we spent money on veterans.

by Jay on Sep 4, 2007 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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