What would you want for DiamondView?

by FranklinScott on Sep 25, 2007 12:26 PM EDT

Right now, DiamondView seems to be at peak value:

2. Recreating The Tribe - It's clear that Coonelly wanted to use the Indians as the model for the Pirates. Huntington certainly knows how the Indians work, but can he actually find the parts? The Indians have a dynamic GM, solid scouting, a great stats department, and the wild card of the DiamondView system. I've been told that one new GM asked about acquiring the system and was told he'd need to deal a top-level prospect for it. It's time to start wondering what D-View could fetch on the market. Sure, PECOTA likes him, but traditional scouts don't seem to give a damn. There's no way we trade with a division rival, so the Royals might be an option.

Poll

What would you take for DiamondView?

Alex Gordon

6 votes

Evan Longoria

7 votes

Andy LaRoche

2 votes

Clay Buchholz

8 votes

Ichiro

7 votes

Jose Tabata

1 votes

31 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 16 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Re: What would you want for DiamondView?

I wonder if the Indians brass has to sign NDAs regarding DiamondView.

I probably wouldn't give the technology up to anybody, for any player. If you really believe it gives you a long term competitive advantage over other teams, seems to me like no single player would be worth that. Once you let somebody else have it it seems to me it's just a matter of time before your division rivals have it too.

OTOH, to my understanding, really all it is is a big database of stats and scouting reports with a nice search interface, so maybe they think it's been given too much credit for their success and are perfectly willing to license it if it'll net them a player they really like.

by mrich on Sep 25, 2007 12:38 PM EDT 0 recs

Re: What would you want for DiamondView?

I'm sure that it is proprietary to the Indians, and that anyone who worked on it or with it who leaves has to sign NDA's or confidentiality agreements.

I remember hearing about it a long time ago, but didn't realize what it was until i just read up on it now. (I think I might have confused it with the Diamond Mind simulators or something).
From what I could find on it, DiamondView is something that every team should have, and if they don't yet they will soon. I'm sure that any team to which the Indians grant a license will be forced to sign agreements that prohibit them or their employees from taking it with them too.

The program probably has some non-negligble role in the team's success to this point, but in some ways it appears to be the Indians' own version of PECOTA or James' Favorite Toy or some similar concept.

What Shapiro tries to get for it will depend on how inevitable widespread use of things like DV becomes. If I were him I would try to get the best prospects from the teams whose use of the program posed the smallest threat to me. A small market NL team that has been run poorly. Hmm, sounds like the Pirates to me

by mpstable on Sep 25, 2007 12:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: What would you want for DiamondView?

I don't know if NDA's are appropriate. Many people know about DiamondView, and a fewer number of actually used it, but using it and recreating it are two different beasts. I don't give any value of this advanced OPS or stuff like that. But an easy to use complete data base (that presumably is forward looking) is extremely useful if that is what it is.

by oxforddave on Sep 25, 2007 1:07 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: What would you want for DiamondView?

I think he has potential to develop into the corner power bat we so desperately need. I say we hang on for a while.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Sep 25, 2007 12:38 PM EDT 0 recs

Re: What would you want for DiamondView?

Yeah, we don't want to trade him and then watch him develop into another Brandon Phillips. Then we'd have to hear years of "well, if Shapiro didn't trade DiamondView then we'd have won the World Series by now!"

by Buckeye Brad on Sep 25, 2007 1:10 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: What would you want for DiamondView?

The Link isn't working for me - anyone want to give me some background or point in the direction of somewhere I can go to read up about DiamondView? I've never heard of it before.

- Jake

by jakesinger777 on Sep 25, 2007 1:05 PM EDT 0 recs

Re: What would you want for DiamondView?

Well, I found this link:
http://www.cleveland.com/gameplan/index.ssf?/gameplan/more/part2.html

It's from 2003, and it discusses the role DiamondView played in the Thome negotiations, but I think it's a decent overview and background on the technology, for those who had never heard of it (like me!).

- Jake

by jakesinger777 on Sep 25, 2007 1:41 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: What would you want for DiamondView?

I know this is number 3 in a row commenting on myself, but, especially this week, how do you like this quote:

"Jim on the team this year [2003] would make this team better, no doubt about that," Dolan continued. "But three, four, five, six years from now, when this team is ready to go, I'm not sure Jim would be able to help."

- Jake

by jakesinger777 on Sep 25, 2007 1:43 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: What would you want for DiamondView?

Yeah, the article has a really helpful description:

"Helping to separate head from heart, and gut instinct from statistical reality, is the role of the Indians' confidential computer database, DiamondView. Consider it a kind of truth machine, whose function is to temper, or even override, subjective measurements with objective ones."

by FranklinScott on Sep 25, 2007 1:57 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: What would you want for DiamondView?

Cool article. I think I'm going to re-read the entire "Game Plan" series the PD did then.

http://www.cleveland.com/gameplan/

by JulioBernazard on Sep 25, 2007 5:46 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: What would you want for DiamondView?

Next year, I'm looking forward to reading the fascinating organizational-management story of how the 2007 World Champion Cleveland Indians.

by ploni on Sep 25, 2007 1:51 PM EDT 0 recs

Re: What would you want for DiamondView?

CORRECTION:

Next year, I'm looking forward to reading the fascinating organizational-management story of how the 2007 World Champion Cleveland Indians came to be.

by ploni on Sep 25, 2007 1:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: What would you want for DiamondView?

I had never heard of DiamondView. Now every time Jay says "and they have access to more complex and accurate stats than any of us," I know to what he is referring.

by NickFantana on Sep 25, 2007 5:12 PM EDT 0 recs

Re: What would you want for DiamondView?

See, I say that, and I'm referring to Jeff Datz.

by fleerdon on Sep 26, 2007 3:40 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: What would you want for DiamondView?

At this point, we could attach this diary to the "assistant coaches" diary and form a Möbius strip.

by Fiddlesticks on Sep 26, 2007 3:54 PM EDT up 0 recs

Re: What would you want for DiamondView?

It's not even DiamondView specifically. It's just ... our stats are so dumb. Really, they are. They're full of obvious holes, stuff that can be corrected with a mid-level knowledge of how to work a database.

The proof of this is that you've got guys who write about baseball as a glorified hobby -- THT and BP certainly didn't start off as money-making ventures -- who feel motivated to take the time to actually invent their own, better stats.

Now, if they can do it, and it's not even their job to write about the team professionally ... what would a really smart bunch of guys whose job it is to run the team want to do in this area?

And the only credible answer to that question, I believe, is: a lot more, and a lot better. DiamondView is just a name for a specific big piece of database design and data analysis. Any team that doesn't have something impressive in this area is sleeping on the job.

by Jay on Sep 26, 2007 4:41 PM EDT up 0 recs