CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

Well, if you were a betting man, who do you put your money on?

For the ALDS, I put my money on the Yankees. This is the first time a lot of the guys on the team will be in the postseason. I don't experience necessarily means a whole lot, but I do remember the 2005 Indians losing 5 1-run games in the last week of the season. How do they respond to pressure in the playoffs? Its entirely possible, that it doesn't affect them and they go hammer the Yankees.

So, if they win the ALDS, I'd feel supremely confident putting my money on them for the WS. The inexperience is also the reason, I'd like them to be viewed as underdogs for the series (maybe even not have home field).

I know they are the better team. Little doubt about that for me. However, I felt that way about the 2005 team. Remember, when they'd gotten everything together that season (AUG, SEP), ALL five starters we clicking, the offense was positively on fire and I believed, without a doubt that they'd demolish everyone in the playoffs. We also had the best bullpen in the league that year.

by crazymoloh on Sep 27, 2007 12:34 PM EDT reply actions

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I'd put my money on whichever of the eight teams has the highest odds.

Handicapping the current baseball post-season structure is like handicapping a Russian roulette tournament.

by SuddenSam on Sep 27, 2007 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions

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Fine. This isn't about handicappers. As an informed and knowledgeable baseball fan, who do you pick?

by crazymoloh on Sep 27, 2007 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions

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If you're thinking as hard about 2005 as you seem to be, why haven't you brought up the fact that it was a crash of semi-historic proportions, and is for that reason unlikely to happen again? You mention betting; well, sheer probability is on the Indians' side here.

I also contest the idea that players experience "pressure" in the sense that you suggest. Baseball is a job to them, and these guys all signed their contracts in April. Sure, there are bonuses on the line, but these are almost to a man very well compensated individuals with not a whole lot to lose.

by fleerdon on Sep 27, 2007 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions

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If you're thinking as hard about 2005 as you seem to be, why haven't you brought up the fact that it was a crash of semi-historic proportions

In what sense is it semi-historic? That a contending team goes 1-6 in last seven days? Its not like they lost a 10 game lead.

Baseball is a job to them, and these guys all signed their contracts in April.

And that's the only thing that affect their psyche?

by crazymoloh on Sep 27, 2007 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions

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You're not considering the quality of the competition. The Indians had been as hot as anybody in the game. Their odds of making the post-season with even mediocre play were terrific. Instead, they got bounced by the Devil Rays and the traveling company White Sox. To lose by the margin the 2005 Indians did was very improbable, and it's a fallacy to consider it in the least authoritative re: the 2007 Indians in the post-season.

And that's the only thing that affect their psyche?

Certainly not, but I'd say it has a lot more to do with it than some nebulous concept of October pressure. This is still what these goes do for a living, whatever the venue.

by fleerdon on Sep 27, 2007 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions

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Do you believe the 1-6 record was pure chance?

by crazymoloh on Sep 27, 2007 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions

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Seriously? I don't know about you, but I've never jumped up and down like a 4 year old, sprayed 125 bottles of champaign, hugged 35 alcohol soaked guys in any job that I've ever had, just because I had a good year. I've also never seen my boss tear up thinking about all the personal and company wide turmoil the "employees" had during the past year (Torre).

They might get paid lots of money, but this isn't a job to most of these people. It's a game. It's a game that they want to win. When the win it is awesome and feels wonderful. When they lose it tears at their soul and pisses them off. And when the difference between winning and losing depends on fielding a bunt and throwing 60 feet to first, you feel pressure and experience could matter.

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 27, 2007 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions

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I admire your lack of cynicism, and I don't see the value in arguing against it. I only add that if the average salary in your company was seven figures long, and if your successes were decided by a scoreboard and punctuated by cheering throngs of young women, you might behave differently at the end of your fiscal year.

by fleerdon on Sep 27, 2007 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions

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I get what your saying and I agree that there is overemphasis by some in the media on things like grit and experience.

I just think your dismissal of the concept of pressure is going to the other extreme, which is just as, if not even more, foolish.

Meltdowns and giving up happens in sports and people become total failures in spite of their incredible physical abilities. Much of this comes from the pressure of having those seven figure salaries and thousands of young women watching your every move... and the pressure of wanting to win.

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 27, 2007 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions

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Clutch ellipsis!

by fleerdon on Sep 27, 2007 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions

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ha, thanks

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 27, 2007 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions

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I see the value in both of your sides. Like I said, I don't think pressure is a non-issue, I just think a lot of the hubbub about experience is overblown. I think a lot of it comes down to individual personalities. For example, A-Rod is not only the highest paid player in baseball but has been to the post-season before and thus has "experience." But if you don't think he's going to feel a decent amount of pressure under the hot New York lights, then, well, I dunno.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Sep 27, 2007 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions

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As long as we're randomly citing pressure in the playoffs, how about that time the Yankees blew a 3-game lead in the AL championship? They had something resembling starting pitching then. "Yankee mystique" be damned.

by Delluccious on Sep 27, 2007 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions

How about the 2003 Marlins?

They had virtually NO experience in regards to the postseason, then went out and beat the Giants, Cubs, and Yankees, the same Yankees who have been to the postseason every season since 1995, so while experience can be helpful, I'm not sure it's essential.

If that were the case, all the new teams to the postseason would never win, and that certainly is NOT the case.

Just my 2 cents. :-)

Go Tribe! :-)

by indiansfan on Sep 28, 2007 2:10 AM EDT up reply actions

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I don't really have a problem with that. The Yankees are 1 and the Indians are 1a.

The Indians still have to prove themselves. We still have A LOT of question marks in casual observers mind.

It's hard for someone on the outside looking in seeing Hafner struggling, Borowski blowing saves and a bunch of AA guys playing over their heads somehow winning this whole thing. It's not that hard to imagine.

by Toxicadam on Sep 27, 2007 1:11 PM EDT reply actions

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Well, you asked "as a betting man....." I gave you my answer.

Regarding your new question, as an informed and knowledgeable baseball fan, I cannot predict the winner of a short series.

The actual point of my little diary was to poke fun at the condescending way the Indians are being treated by the national media, who see them as the uninvited guest at the party.

by SuddenSam on Sep 27, 2007 1:13 PM EDT reply actions

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Sheesh! Is that hard to get you offer your prediction?

And you can predict the winner of a long series?

by crazymoloh on Sep 27, 2007 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions

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Perhaps Sam, like myself and probably many others, fears making predictions for totally illogical and superstitious reasons. I NEVER make predictions concerning my team's playoff chances, whether verbally, in print, or via internets.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Sep 27, 2007 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions

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Fine. But you didn't post a diary mocking people who are favoring the Yankees. I said I saw their point because I too would pick them and gave my reason. Why mock peoples' predictions if you don't have stones to make your own. I too would prefer to STFU and watch some baseball.

by crazymoloh on Sep 27, 2007 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions

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First off, the Power rankings aren't playoff predictions. Secondly, even if the Yankees were the better team, the ridiculous amount of New York knob-schlobbing is stomach turning to people like me and Sam who hate to see us discounted like that by ignorant media outlets. I do believe that was Sam's point, and he meant nothing more than inititaing a little light-hearted "STUPID EAST COAST BIAS" talk.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Sep 27, 2007 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions

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My reluctance to make predictions isn't based on superstition, but simply on my inability to do so in a meaningful way. Oh sure, I can obsess about pitching matchups, the long and short ALDS formats, JoBo and the Raffys, and the rest of it as well as the next guy.

But I would have no confidence in a prediction. Hence, my answer is that if I found myself in Vegas this Sunday evening, I would put a little on the team with the highest odds to go all the way.

I'm pretty sure that there wasn't a single published writer, expert, or pundit last year who predicted a Cardinals-Tigers series. Or that an 83-79 team who stumbled and choked and backed into a weak division championship (and whose pitching staff was in such disarray that they were forced to rely on Jeff Weaver) would hoist the trophy.

I bet they had the highest odds, though.

by SuddenSam on Sep 27, 2007 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions

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I'm pretty sure that there wasn't a single published writer, expert, or pundit last year who predicted a Cardinals-Tigers series. Or that an 83-79 team who stumbled and choked and backed into a weak division championship (and whose pitching staff was in such disarray that they were forced to rely on Jeff Weaver) would hoist the trophy.

No shit, Sherlock! Everyone is capable of the best educated guess. I'm sure you're gonna give me a post about how guess is really 'educated', or how since its a 'guess' its meaningless anyway. Whatever. I'm not claiming to be clairvoyant, just going out on a limb. Is really impossible to wrap your head around this concept?

by crazymoloh on Sep 27, 2007 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions

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I'm still trying to contemplate how it is you've come to be so pissed about this whole discussion. Relax.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Sep 27, 2007 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions

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Bad day. Questioning my motivation to get a PhD, something that I guess has been going on for 4 years....

Actually, the suggestion that I'm buying into the Yankees aura, really made me bonkers.

by crazymoloh on Sep 27, 2007 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions

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Hey man, I can sympathize with the situation.

For the record, I don't thing anyone was applying the "Yankee Pathos" label to you, but simply using it as a stand-in for national media mentality.

I don't think what your saying is so far off, in fact it's been quite a struggle within myself to not be as pessimistic as I usually am. In 2005, I fully expected us to blow it; I was no better than your average Cleveland blowhard, but I think venting (and learning from) this site has helped me be more positive.

Now, just like someone mentioned below, I'm more excited about this team than I ever have been for any other Tribe team.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Sep 27, 2007 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions

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Well, I'm not pessimistic. There's one little nagging question mark that is an artifact of that season (2005). The second it is answered, I would have no hesitation with putting my money where my 10 fingers are picking the Indians to win it all. Two dominant SPs (not merely good) should be enough to overcome any 'luck' that doesn't go our way. This team reminds me of the 2001 Diamondbacks. Great #1 and #2, shaky closer (although I guess Kim was lights out in the regular season), etc...

by crazymoloh on Sep 27, 2007 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions

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Turk can't speak for me when he apologizes, because I pretty explicitly attached irrational Yankee favoritism to you. For what it's worth, I think you refuted that.

And I'm pretty sure learning to weather a good tweak-out is the most important skill in grad school. If you're smart enough to make it in, you're smart enough to make it out; it's just the little matter of not bolting for Puerto Rico in between.

As far as this goes, I'm open to advice.

by fleerdon on Sep 27, 2007 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions

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Sorry 'bout that, just trying to defuse the situation a bit.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Sep 27, 2007 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions

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Oh no apologies. I appreciate that. In fact, you have a license to speak for me whenever. You're good with girls, right?

by fleerdon on Sep 27, 2007 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions

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If only...

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Sep 27, 2007 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions

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Well, I'm already in San Diego......

Yeah, its an odd situation with the Yankees. They're actually a good team and its not all fluff.

Problem is, all the writers are trying make up for giving up on the Yankees by feeding the narrative of the Yankee Aura(TM). It couldn't actually be that there was a scheduling quirk that allowed the Yankees to play 22 of 28 games against 4th and 5th place team right after the break. No, it was the indomitable Yankees and their Yankee-ness. People were quick to write off $200M and established track records.

I guess this their way of making up for the fact they look like total idiots now. It wasn't they were poor analysts. Its that Yankees are magical and have a shiny pony.

p.s: I also think the Angels are going to totally stink in the playoffs and I have tickets for Game 4! Booo

by crazymoloh on Sep 27, 2007 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions

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Indians are being treated by the national media, who see them as the uninvited guest at the party.

I think people simply favor the Yankees and I really can't disagree with them too much.

by crazymoloh on Sep 27, 2007 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions

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Okay, but why? Because they have a more powerful offense? I could buy that. Because their bullpen's been pretty hot? That's defensible. Because they're more experienced? The same thing is wrong with this that is wrong with every aspect of irrational Yankees favoritism. There's nothing qualifiedly different about the performance of the Yankees as baseball players except that, historically, there's MORE OF IT: They've got more money, they can afford not only the best ballplayers, but lots of them. Anything else -- experience, True Yankeeism, what have you -- is an attempt to characterize pure economics.

by fleerdon on Sep 27, 2007 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions

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Also!

How many light years more experienced were the Pistons than the Cavs this year? Oops! Guess it didn't matter.

Not to totally devalue any of these things, but "experience" is just an olde-tyme buzzword like "leadership," "grit," etc. that people throw out there when they lack substantial evidence to support arguments.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Sep 27, 2007 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions

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Okay. Argument by anecdote goes both ways.

by crazymoloh on Sep 27, 2007 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions

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No, it doesn't. I'm not making a blanket argument that experience doesn't matter, whereas you are making a blanket argument that experience is very important, perhaps important enough to make a superior team falter against a weaker one.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Sep 27, 2007 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions

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Do you believe the 1-6 record in the end of 2005 was only the work of chance?

by crazymoloh on Sep 27, 2007 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions

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See fleerdon's post below. He says what I would have said, only better.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Sep 27, 2007 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions

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Yes. I read that. I don't believe it was all choke or all statistical anomaly.

First off, stop ascribing to me the retarded notions most baseball writers have.

I believe the Indians are evenly matched with the Yankees. Its too close to call. I said that, for the ALDS, I'll make that call based on the observation that pressure played SOME (not all) role in thing fall apart in 2005. This wouldn't even be an issue if I thought the Indians we clearly the better team.

by crazymoloh on Sep 27, 2007 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions

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I don't see why this matters to you. If the 2005 loss had manifested itself by forming a pus-inflated wound in Eric Wedge, well, hey, a bunch of these guys were on that squad! They're more experienced!

The reason this is a difficult argument to make is that it's irrelevant. 2005 is not equal to 2007.

by fleerdon on Sep 27, 2007 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions

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Could it be possible that I'm not saying the seasons are equal?

Could it be that I'm not falling for the Myth of the Yankees(TM)?

Could it just be that I see two teams so evenly freaking matched that choose to use lingering doubts about a previous year's metldown to decide such a close match up?

by crazymoloh on Sep 27, 2007 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions

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Well, in basketball, its different. I don't feel like explaining this all now. but its enough to say that the Cavs did have the experience of being in a seven game playoff series against a team that had comparable talent... 2006. They lost that year and used their experience from the year before in aiding them to the win in 2007. Plenty of teams, if not most, have slowly gotten farther in the playoffs through the years before getting to the top.

by Ryan Kelsey on Sep 27, 2007 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions

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If you believe the 1-6 collapse in 2005 was pure chance, I get where you're coming from. I don't. I think they felt the heat and maybe put a little too much pressure on themselves. However, the way they manhandled Detoit last week tells me that this might not be a problem. I'd like to see a similar approach in a playoff series and than both my heart and mind will pick them as the favorites.

by crazymoloh on Sep 27, 2007 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions

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I think they felt the heat and maybe put a little too much pressure on themselves.

The error here is that you're arguing absolutes. EITHER 2005 was pure chance OR it was a swell choke-job. Sure, pressure could have been a factor. But I don't think it can account for ALL of the improbable things that happened that week, and I doubt it can account for most of them.

And if you're right, and it's about how they take the heat, why aren't you convinced by sweeping the Tigers in a series that essentially decided the division? In what sense, other than that the opponents might be the Yankees, would that be a more likely place for the team to choke?

I think you're still subscribing to the myth of the Pinstripe.

by fleerdon on Sep 27, 2007 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions

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"would that be a more likely place for the team to choke"

"that" = the yankees in the post-season

by fleerdon on Sep 27, 2007 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions

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STOP ATTACHING ALL THIS MYTH OF THE PINSTRIPES CRAP TO ME. I'm sure that's what drives most baseball writers, but not me!

#1. I wasted a good bit of timetrying to figure out which team I thought was best equipped to win in October based on selecting some regular season stats I thought to be relevant. The Indians came out on top, but only by a hair. So, in my mind its essentially a coin flip.

#2. Since the Yanks v Indians comes down to a coin flip in my mind, I chose believe the pressure that affected (not a huge one, but not negligible either) some of our players in the past, COULD be a factor in the upcoming series. I don't believe this would be factor for the Yankees because, well, their $200M payroll masks any psyhcological shortcomings they may have. So I decide the coin flip in the Yankees favor because of SMALL chance that SOME people might press.

#3. The Detroit series assuaged many of my doubts, but not all of them. If I didn't think the teams were evenly matched, I wouldn't even consider something as nebulous as 'pressure'. I picked the Indians over the Sox and Angels, because I believe they are clearly better than both teams.

by crazymoloh on Sep 27, 2007 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions

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I pulled this from your comment above: Could it just be that I see two teams so evenly freaking matched that choose to use lingering doubts about a previous year's metldown to decide such a close match up?

You repeatedly asked about 2005 before explaining this. If you want to disagree with me, have at it, but don't get frustrated because I couldn't infer your reasoning from subtext.

As far as your conclusion goes, I question it because I think the Yankees' run differential is 183, and the Indians' is 106. I would actually agree going into a series against the Yankees that they're the favorites -- because they've scored more runs.

You're calling 77 runs a coin flip, and THEN predicting the coin flip in New York's favor primarily because you believe the Indians' performance of 2 years ago bears some significance on their performance now. That's quite a limb you're out on.

by fleerdon on Sep 27, 2007 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions

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You're calling 77 runs a coin flip

When the fuck did I say that? I said it was coin flip based on this. Quibble with the reasoning, assumptions and conclusion therein. Don't put words in my mouth to make it look like I'm trying to drum up a 'Yankees have experience' narrative.

by crazymoloh on Sep 27, 2007 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions

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Lighten up, Francis.

by Fiddlesticks on Sep 27, 2007 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions

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Yes. I think I've established that if I were on the Indians roster now, I would definitely let the pressure get to me!

by crazymoloh on Sep 27, 2007 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions

Underdogs.

Being the underdog is when it's most fun. A barnstorming run through the playoffs with this roster might be the most intoxicatingly awesome sports accomplishment any Cleveland team can offer.

Here's hoping we're just a few days away from witnessing the start.

by tabler84 on Sep 27, 2007 1:32 PM EDT reply actions

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If recent World Series are any indication, it isn't always the best team that wins. To debate a team's chances in the post season by their (arbitrary) ranking on paper is meaningless. While I don't agree with Billy Beane that the playoffs are a complete "crapshoot," I do think that most teams in the playoffs have a legitimate chance to win it all.

Ever since rebuilding began, I figured the Tribe would be a team that sneaks up, suprises everyone in the playoffs and "steals" a World Series. (I imagine something akin to the White Sox in '05 or the Marlins in '01.) Thus, it doesn't bother me that we aren't seen as "favorites" or that we don't get too much media attention.

by UndeniableMagistrate on Sep 27, 2007 1:52 PM EDT reply actions

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"White Sox in '05 or the Marlins in '01"

This should say 2001 D'backs or the 2003 Marlins.

by talonk on Sep 27, 2007 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions

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Speaking of media and motivation, I read and listen to Bill Simmons for the NFL stuff but his baseball stuff is appalling. Witness the second half of his Wednesday Sept 26 podcast when he discusses the impending playoffs with his buddy who is a Yankees fan. Unsurprisingly they are unimpressed by the Indians including several gems such as:

"Grady Sizemore isn't scary."

"Hafner has been a disaster"

"I'll believe Sabathia and Carmona when I see it in the playoffs."

Simmons also admits that other than CC and Fausto he can't name any other Indians starting pitchers.

I'm not posting this to complain (because it didn't surprise me), I'm posting this because I have never been more excited to witness a postseason of any sport in my lifetime. I want the Indians to win SO bad.

by NickFantana on Sep 27, 2007 2:11 PM EDT reply actions

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Bingo!

by SuddenSam on Sep 27, 2007 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions

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Hard to argue with that stat-based research ... well, that's why Simmons won 2005 executive of the year and Mark Shapiro writes columns

by Fios on Sep 27, 2007 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions

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excellent!

by hans on Sep 27, 2007 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions

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I don't understand the Bill Simmon's thing. He doesn't know much about sports, he is a Boston fan, and he thinks making random references to pop culture is comedy.

by ClarkM on Sep 27, 2007 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions

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He is quite possibly the opposite of comedy.

by hans on Sep 27, 2007 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions

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+2

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Sep 27, 2007 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions

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I'll believe Sabathia and Carmona when I see it in the playoffs.

Get ready to believe it, d-bag. God, I can't wait for this team to shut that Bristol piehole.

by mrich on Sep 27, 2007 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions

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WHOOOOOOOOOO. I am reading this site right now for the Chuck-led trash talking more than anything else. I am so ready to sweep the Yankees and even more ready to talk shit about the Yankees with you all when it happens.

by NickFantana on Sep 27, 2007 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions

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I like when FireJoeMorgan.com said that reading Simmons is like listening to Andy Rooney: you might do it to be entertained, but you certainly don't do it to learn anything.

Interviewing his buddy on his podcast? Glad I don't subscribe to that one.

by JulioBernazard on Sep 27, 2007 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions

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IT's clear this blog is lacking post season experience. You guys are cracking under the pressure. Cowboy Up!

by Brick. on Sep 27, 2007 2:25 PM EDT reply actions

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I can't take the heat, brick. I need veteran presence to guide me. Where's Chuck?

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Sep 27, 2007 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions

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Yeah, cause we newbs get flustered when we try to discuss things like kajklc;vkdajl;skd

by tabler84 on Sep 27, 2007 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions

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Here I am Turk. Just got done wading through all of the intelligent, thoughtful posts. But I don't think that anyone took the most important factor into consideration. It's a five game series - this definitely favors the team with the best two starters. And as I've noted before, the Indians have the best two starters in all of baseball. Does Randy and Curt ring a bell out there?

Look, I've seen what is arguably some of the best offensive clubs ever - the late 90's Indians - and they came up short every year. Awesome offense and stellar relief pitching, but only slightly better than average starting pitching - ya gotta admit that Nagy and Hershiser are hardly CC and Carmona. Pitching, pitching, pitching is what wins the vast majority of play-offs. And before you jump on this, I know all about the Big Red Machine. Still it's offense that wins play-off slots and pitching that wins series - and we've got the best 3 man rotation in the AL, plus, I think, after almost 6 months of baseball, we've figured out our relief pitching.

Bottom line: the Tribe has the edge. We're gonna be Buster Douglas to the Yankee's Mike Tyson. To beat the bully the first thing you gotta do is stand up to him and realize that he'll feel a good punch in the nose just like you do. So punch him - hard - right in the snoot-locker. And once you get him down, don't let him up - kick the bejesus outta him till the cops come.

Here's my prediction: Tribe in four

LeBron must GO!

by mauichuck on Sep 27, 2007 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions

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Oy, blew my best line, snoot=snot.

LeBron must GO!

by mauichuck on Sep 27, 2007 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions

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We have to meet up for some playoff games, Chuck. Where are you these days? Still in Maui?

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Sep 27, 2007 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

Back in Jersey - I don't get back to Maui until just before Thanksgiving - gotta nother contract they want me to finish.

Yeah, I'm up for a game or two. Let's see if we can organize an East Coast meeting of the LGT clan. And, oh yeah, I'm working on some play-off tickets for the Heart of Darkness - Yankee Stadium. If I can score some - wanna go?

LeBron must GO!

by mauichuck on Sep 27, 2007 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

I'm there in a heartbeat, assuming it's for a game against the Tribe. Don't think I could stomach that place without the warming glow of a few other Tribe fans.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Sep 27, 2007 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

And my apologies to crazymoloh, I just saw the reference to the '01 D-Backs - so somebody else sees the same parellels I do.

LeBron must GO!

by mauichuck on Sep 27, 2007 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

Yeah. I think once we eliminate the Yankees, this is a comparison more columnists will start to see.

by crazymoloh on Sep 27, 2007 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

HAHAHA

by crazymoloh on Sep 27, 2007 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

Yeah, I predicted the Indians would make the post-season in 2005. Now I'm pressing.

by fleerdon on Sep 27, 2007 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

If you try too hard, you may drop your keyboard in the sunlight.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Sep 27, 2007 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

Yankees Suck! Fire Wedge!!
Use Raffy not Borowski!!!
Whew! I feel better.

by Fiddlesticks on Sep 27, 2007 2:29 PM EDT reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

I like complaining about Yankee bias as much as anybody. But I have to admit, from an impartial perspective, they look like a stronger team than the Indians.

They've been tearing up the league since June (69-28). They've been blowing teams out -- half their wins have been by 5+ runs. Plus they're 6-0 against the Indians. Who would you pick as the stronger team?

That said, I also prefer being the underdog. Let them come.

by fingolfin on Sep 27, 2007 2:52 PM EDT reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

For whatever it is worth to anyone:

So is Wedge concerned about the prospect of facing a team [the Yankees] in the postseason that his club was unable to beat in the regular season?

He doesn't seem to be.

"I think when it gets down toward the end of the season, you throw the stats out and everything else out, and it's just about playing good baseball," he said. "And when you get to the playoffs, even moreso. You all start from the same spot, and you know what your situation is. When you get to that point, you just go out and play."

Notes: Tribe closing in on decisions by Anthony Castrovince, MLB.com.

by Fiddlesticks on Sep 27, 2007 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

Hey, anyone know the Indians regular season record against the Yankees? It could tell us exactly who is going to win the post season series. If it's real lopsided, like 5-1, they might not even have to play the games.

by Brick. on Sep 27, 2007 3:09 PM EDT reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

Tyler's LGT usage:

-Preparing arguments; realizing the moderators made them anyway: 40%
-Considering jokes; laughing at Brick's instead: 55%
-Starting traditions; being the only one who observes them: 5%

by fleerdon on Sep 27, 2007 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

legitimate CLOAL (Chuckle Laugh Out Audible Loud )

by Brick. on Sep 27, 2007 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

Besides the obvious reason why I did not want to face the Yankees (Borowski getting owned) ... the other reason I did not is because our fanbase has fragile egos.

I witnessed it both times we've got swept this year. So many people melted down and pondered how this team could go on .. and that the season was over .. Fire Shapiro, Wedge is a choker, the guys will never win a big game .. etc etc.

For whatever reason, our fans get completely worked up by the Yankees. Almost akin to what a Browns fan gets when they face the Steelers. This kind of irrational sense of expectation and drama.

by Toxicadam on Sep 27, 2007 3:14 PM EDT reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

I hear what you're saying. Keep things in perspective. We'll crush the Yankees. 22-0, perhaps.

by Voltaire on Sep 27, 2007 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

Just beat the Yankees. At home. In three. With Sizemore stealing home and Hafner hitting .500 in the series.

by Voltaire on Sep 27, 2007 3:20 PM EDT reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

Here's how I script it.

C.C and Carmona take care of bidness in games one and two. We'll give A-Rod a couple of dingers and Jeter a few errors.

CLE 5, NYY 5 (Top of the 9th) Game 3

Joba relieves <6.00+ ERA reliever>
Sizemore walks
Asdrubal Cabrea reaches on error by Joba
<Throws it into the stands over first base. Hits Steinbrenner in the balls.>
Sizemore to third, Cabrera to second
<Conference on the mound.>
Sizemore steals home
<Indians lead 6-5.>
Hafner reaches on error by Jeter
Cabrera to third
Martinez homers to center
<Indians lead 9-5>
Mariano Rivera relives Joba Chamberlain

Rivera pitches a scoreless inning from there on and Wedge can now bring in Betancourt to hold the lead in a non-save situation!

by crazymoloh on Sep 27, 2007 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

Just one factual error in all of this: Stienbrenner has no balls.

LeBron must GO!

by mauichuck on Sep 27, 2007 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

I approve of this scenario.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Sep 27, 2007 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

I just came across this interesting factoid in Tom Verducci's Inside Baseball Article:

Over the past two seasons, the team that won the season series over its opponent is 3-9 when those same teams meet in league postseason play. Did I hear someone say "small sample"?

OK, let's look at the entire Division Series and League Championship Series history during the wild-card era. The team that won the season series is 33-36 in postseason rematches, including 12-21 since 2001 (excludes three matchups of teams that tied their regular-season series). So fear not the Yankees, Indians fans. October really is a whole new season.

by UndeniableMagistrate on Sep 27, 2007 3:20 PM EDT reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

Verducci for MVP.

int i = 1;
while (i < 100) {
System.out.println("Small sample size!");
i = i++;
}

I'm in class. Had to make it look like I'm working.

by Voltaire on Sep 27, 2007 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

What is that, Java? It's the new "hello world"!

In Perl:
for (my $ix = 0; $ix < 100; $ix++) {
print STDOUT "SSSn";
}

Bash:
for (( i = 0; i < 100; i = i + 1 )); do echo "SSS"; done

C#:
for (int i = 0; i < 100; i++) {
Console.Writeline("SSS");
}

by mrich on Sep 27, 2007 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

Doesn't anybody do machine language any more?

LeBron must GO!

by mauichuck on Sep 27, 2007 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

Excellent article, thanks for the link. It's amazing how even national sportswriters can get it if they just do a little research.

Permit me a little anecdote: Back in the 1980s I lived for a while in Dayton. The sports editor of the Journal-Herald was a useless old fart named Ritter Collett.

In those days, the LCS was 3-of-5, with a 2-3 format. Ritter wrote an impassioned column about how unfair this was, how the team with the last three games at home had a huge advantage. No data, lots of certainty.

I channeled Bill James and decided there must be some evidence for this. So I pulled out my Baseball Encyclopedia and tallied up the LCS results from 1969 to the present. At that time, there had been thirty series played under this format (including an extra round in 1981).

The results? 15-15. Took less than ten minutes, but Ritter must have been a busy man.

Oh, and Ritter Collett was later given the Spink award from the Hall of Fame. But don't get me started.......

by SuddenSam on Sep 27, 2007 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

This is one of those diaries where, after all the bickering and squabbling, no one really knows/cares what the original post was about.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Sep 27, 2007 3:48 PM EDT reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

And...so?

by Voltaire on Sep 27, 2007 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

Nothing, really. I like that we can break into this spontaneous arguments/discussions. It's healthy and fun, and a sign that our team is good enough to merit these kinds of discussions.

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Sep 27, 2007 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

I remember. Eric Mack drinks from the pool of Yankees Aura(TM)!

On more informative note, I did come across one article that claims to possess a reliable gauge of postseason performance using some regular season metrics. I haven't seen the data or the analysis, but here's the claim. Hopefully his article is backed by some legit numbers and analysis.

by crazymoloh on Sep 27, 2007 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

It's crap and has typos.

by Voltaire on Sep 27, 2007 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

How so? I don't actually have the book/article he refers to.

by crazymoloh on Sep 27, 2007 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

http://clevelandtribeblog.blogspot.com/2007/09/knowing-enemy.html

The Diatriber with a very timely piece on this very subject.

by Toxicadam on Sep 27, 2007 4:05 PM EDT reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

I was so pressing before the Tigers' series. Now, I'm just kinda like, "F it."

At the same time, I'm secretly waiting for the other shoe to fall and dreading the thought of it. I guess you have to be neurotic to be an Indians fan.

by Gradyforpresident on Sep 27, 2007 5:12 PM EDT reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

+1

Now the Lord can make you tumble, and the Lord can make you turn, and the Lord can make you overflow... but the Lord can't make you burn

by Turkmenbashi on Sep 27, 2007 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

I really don't know if a similar sentiment was written above, so please forgive me.
I think the reason that people are giving the edge, at this point, to the yankees is partially because they are in NY and partially because of the 0-6 thing.

The reason I am very very nervous right now is not because of either of those. When we played the yankees this year I remember thinking, whether it was justified or not, that we were completely overmatched. They dominated us, and everyone saw it coming. The Indians players and fans - everyone, it just felt like we had no chance. Do you guys remember that? Either way, I don't know what the reason was, it just felt like something in the air - yes, this is a very unscientific way to think about an upcoming playoff series - but if the players share this same feeling with me, even a tiny bit, then we are in big big trouble.

- Jake

by jakesinger777 on Sep 28, 2007 3:47 AM EDT reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

Brother Jake - relax. The play-offs are a whole new deal. Remember: we can focus all of our mojo on winning three - just three - games. And we're the ones holding the pair of aces - CC and Carmona.

All we gotta do is win three outta five - and three of those are at home. We got those assholes right where we want 'em - in a five game series with our two best starters - no make that the two best starters in all of baseball - rested and ready.

We're gonna kick their ass right up between their shoulder blades - just sit back and enjoy.

LeBron must GO!

by mauichuck on Sep 28, 2007 7:09 AM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

That's sort of the bottom line I was getting to, but didn't write. I feel very strongly that we have a better team. I also feel pretty confident (not 100%, but still confident) going into the series. I just hope, and this I guess is the concern, that the players don't feel or act as intimidated as they looked in the regular season series.

With the obnoxious nature of Yankee fans, which has been well documented here over the last couple days, there really would be nothing greater than a series victory.

- Jake

by jakesinger777 on Sep 28, 2007 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions

Re: CBS Sportsline Power Rankings

I think it's fair to say that there was an intimidation factor with the Yanks earlier this year. It's similar to what an astute friend pointed out about LeBron during the Detroit series:

He said that LeBron, for whatever reason, seemed more timid around Rasheed Wallace. Going into the series, he very presciently predicted that LeBron needed a "statement" moment to get us over the hump.

We lost games one and two with LeBron not at his most aggressive. Then, we come home and LeBron posterized Wallace. It was THE moment so many people were waiting for.

Do I think the Tribe HAS to have some such moment against the Yanks? No. We're simply good enough to beat them. But I have a feeling it would really bolster our chances if we can come up with a timely 3-run bomb or a big run off Rivera or Joba.

by tabler84 on Sep 28, 2007 8:12 AM EDT up reply actions