Hargrove invented ubiquitous phrase
Turns out our good friend Grover was the first to utter "Manny being Manny" for the press.
Great to read an ESPN article that is both well-researched and fun to read.
about 1 year ago
JulioBernazard
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If I recall correctly, Kevin Millar claimed that he invented the phrase
by Roger Dorn on Oct 16, 2008 12:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I first thought of the phrase in a bar called Fitzpatrick’s on Lexington Avenue in Manhattan on Christmas eve in 1986. I told quite a few people in the tavern as well. Perhaps Kevin Millar was there.
by odradek on Oct 17, 2008 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But what about the phrase “Human Rain Delay?”
by woodsmeister on Oct 16, 2008 12:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thing is that phase started as “Grover being Grover,” but Jim Henson threatened a lawsuit.
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
by Harry Doyle on Oct 16, 2008 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Thereby saving hundreds of baseball commentators the trouble of actual reporting.
Does anybody else have the sense that, even after the television market size concerns, the real reason the press favored Boston and Los Angeles is that they’re totally ignorant of the teams and cities of Tampa and, to a lesser extent, Philadelphia?
I was struck by a moment in the NLCS — the Dodgers fans cheering for a curtain call from Casey Blake, Russell Martin shoving an unwilling Blake to the top of the dugout steps. A TV guy said something to the effect of, “When you’re from an Iowa town of fourteen thousand people, you shy away from big crowds.” My dad scoffed, “He’s been playing in major league stadiums for a decade.”
The moment said to me, that guy has no ideas about the Casey Blake who played for a team other than the Dodgers, and not many more about the Casey Blake who does play for the Dodgers. He pulled out the media guide, lit upon the first remotely relevant-sounding Casey Blake fact, and blurted it out like gospel. You and I might think, “Casey’s just too modest,” or “Casey probably didn’t think a solo homer merited a curtain call when his team was down.” But that would require knowing something — anything, really — about Casey Blake.
And Casey Blake played for Los Angeles.
Compare that to Joe Morgan’s seemingly hour-long dissertations on the baseball philosophies of David Ortiz, ostensibly based on in-depth personal conversations. I’m just left thinking, have any of these guys talked to Casey Blake, or asked anyone about Casey Blake? And if not, what are the chances they know something about the guys on the teams they DON’T cover more often? If Rocco Baldelli refuses to make a curtain call, are they going to tell me it’s because he’s from Rhode Island? Or because he’s Italian?
And that’s just one example. Maybe it’s always been this way. I just can’t shake the sense that these commentators have a maximum of 50 baseball players to learn something meaningful about over the course of a series, not really a big commitment, and they can’t even sober up long enough to do that much.
by fleerdon on Oct 16, 2008 1:27 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
What is this Rhode Island of which you speak? There are only three islands – Manhattan, Long and Staten. And what’s with the silent “h”? Clearly unnecessary.
by FredOx on Oct 16, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The silent h is yuge among Lawn Guylanders…
by Logodaedalus on Oct 16, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this is all true. It becomes even more galling when you discuss the numbers involved. TBS pays 104 million a year in broadcast rights and God knows how much these dudes in the booth get paid. You would think that there would be an emphasis on getting the commentators to do their jobs.
At this point, it seems sports announcers are paid to be the sports equivalent of morning show hosts as opposed to evening news anchors.
by NickFantana on Oct 16, 2008 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At this point, it seems sports announcers are paid to be the sports equivalent of morning show hosts as opposed to evening news anchors.
Excellent analogy. As such, they are pandering to the lowest common denominator. Think about it — out of those watching the NLCS, are there more people that know Casey Blake’s actual history than there are people that don’t care and would rather hear a cutesy anecdote?
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Oct 16, 2008 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll play. You raise a solid point in a lot of respects, however, I think there’s a clear parry here.
If Casey Blake was asked by somebody how he felt about curtain calls and big crowds it’s not unlikely that he would give an answer every bit as inane. Athletes constantly give exactly these sorts of quotes:
“Casey, why didn’t you want to take the curtain call?”
“Well, you know, I’m not much for the bright lights.”
Or something else incredibly stupid. The media has created a system in which athletes are far more afraid of saying something interesting than they are excited by the idea of saying something interesting. And, frankly Tyler, if the guy had said “Casey’s too modest” or the thing about a solo shot, it would’ve been just as boring as what the commentator did say.
If Rocco Baldelli refuses to make a curtain call, are they going to tell me it’s because he’s from Rhode Island? Or because he’s Italian?
Probably or they’re going to mention mitochondria. And when Pedroia makes a play they’re going to say something about his stature. And when Lester makes a K they’re going to say something about cancer.
It appears to be true that sportswriters work harder at getting more out of the Boston/NY guys. Still, a lot of what we hear about David Ortiz, Pedroia, Lester, Beckett, Manny whoever is just as stupid-I’ve heard a million times about Manny growing up next to Yankee Stadium, Manny’s hairdresser, Beckett being from Texas and idolizing Clemens, Bernie Williams playing guitar, Andy Pettite being friends with Clemens, Youkilis being featured in Moneyball, Youkilis’ batting stance, Robinson Cano’s dad and Jeter’s racial makeup. It’s not like we’re constantly getting new stuff about these guys either. Granted, I’m not listening very hard.
by afh4 on Oct 16, 2008 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think the media created this problem, though. I think it’s just the natural problem of what it sounds like to an average person when a celebrity they don’t know personally says something that otherwise wouldn’t be a strange thing to say.
by Jay on Oct 16, 2008 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If only all players would interview like Charles Barkley did…
by jds16 on Oct 16, 2008 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually, casey blake is a bad generic subject for this conversation. he’s way more likely to toss out a great dead-pan than a cliche.
"Casey, why didn’t you want to take the curtain call?"
"I was busy texting Travis that I hit that ball farther than he’s hit a ball in 5 months."
by Brick. on Oct 16, 2008 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The reality might actually be that some of the guys are boring, Andrew. But I’m watching the programming and viewing its advertisers. I expect the commentators ACTUALLY TO KNOW whether the guy’s boring, especially in the context of the playoffs when there are only a few dozen people to talk to. If they can’t be interesting, at least they can be factual.
I can agree with you that there are a lot of inane comments being thrown around in the playoffs. Athletes don’t get paid to talk. But the commentators do get paid to ask questions, and when they’ve got the same several dozen guys to talk about for a week it seems the least they can do. And you never know when they might reveal something of genuine interest.
I may be over-stating my point. I just think the playoff coverage this year, and in recent years, has been especially trite and navel-gazey, and I suspect it’s in part because some of the front-line media folks haven’t the foggiest idea who the players even are.
by fleerdon on Oct 16, 2008 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn’t bringing up Blake’s hometown the most factual thing you’re going to hear about a player on one of these broadcasts? I mean, it beats talking about how “[Team that is ahead] is hitting the ball well.”
I guess the primary rub is that I’ve always found commentators trite and navel-gazey at about the same level. And I don’t really know that it has anything to do with market size.
Destroying this trend is:
TNT’s NBA show
Ron Jaworski
I think that’s about the whole list.
Did you guys know Carl Crawford was recruited to play basketball at UCLA? /sarc
by afh4 on Oct 16, 2008 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i just found out evan longoria was married to a guard on the spurs.
by Brick. on Oct 16, 2008 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, Tony Parker is married to Eva. I thought we were talking about Jacque Vaughn.
by FredOx on Oct 20, 2008 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve always appreciated Jaworski’s breakdown of video. I wonder why more analysts who played the game can’t just do that. It really sheds a new light on certain plays (take note, Baseball Tonight).
As far as television media is concerned I’m pretty cool with the whole MNF crew. Kornheiser may not contribute a lot, but at least his comments are different and similar to what the guy next to you at the bar might say. And I think Tirico is a great narrator.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 17, 2008 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should we explore why Hargrove, Manny’s boss, would create or repeat such nonsense? How effective is your boss when he dismisses any kind of insane behavior with this nonsense? “it’s just Manson being Manson” or “it’s just Albert being Albert”.
by elsandito on Oct 20, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you read the article? At the time, Manny was an absent-minded rookie, and most thought he would grow out of this, at least slightly. Instead, he has grown into a monstrous sense of unreflective entitlement.
by Jay on Oct 20, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
unreflective entitlement:
1. When the name of the book is printed on the cover with letters that are not shinny enough to act like a mirror.
2. A spoiled vampire.
3. A bike that a child gets for christmas even though he was naughty that cannot be seen by cars at night.
by Brick. on Oct 20, 2008 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think the point may be that it was being socialized in the “Manny being Manny” culture from an early age is, in part, what led him to become a self-entitled monster.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Oct 20, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
During the NLCS I split between listening to Vin Scully and Harry Kalas. I don’t think Vin is a god or anything, but he (or his researchers) do seem to do a bit of reporting before a game. Going into the dugout and talking with players, culling weird facts from the media guide. Researching. It doesn’t keep him from reminding a viewer that Mastny is from Indonesia, but occasionally he actually has something interesting to say.
by odradek on Oct 17, 2008 12:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He also makes up the hometowns of people who catch fouls. There’s something quaint about that.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Oct 17, 2008 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I enjoyed listening to Vin during this series, but he tends to be over-prepared, to force facts into the narrative that aren’t needed. He’s great at calling the game, establishing the flow, turning a phrase. But I really don’t care that Cole Hamels and his wife alphabetize their canned goods.
That said, Vinnie can’t change, nor should he. I just hope he retires before he reaches Harry Carey Land.
by SuddenSam on Oct 17, 2008 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs


















