Game 5 pushed back to Wednesday
Originally scheduled to resume tonight, the game's been pushed back to tomorrow, though the weather is not much more promising here in Philly. In this article, Joe Sheehan puts into words how exactly Selig screwed this one up.
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Could Selig really have simply insisted that the game be resumed with the score 2-1 after the fifth inning was complete (or after 4.5 innings)? I agree that would have been a better way to handle things, but the rules do say it’s an official game at that point. Phillies fans would have been, to say the least, displeased by that outcome too and would have had rules to point to to challenge the decision. I certainly don’t want to defend Selig, but saying he did the wrong thing makes sense only if he was in a position to ensure a 9-inning game by other means. If he was, he chickened out (again). If not, he probably made the right decision. I don’t know what the actual situation is here.
I believe the rules say that the commissioner has the right to act in the best interests of baseball & Selig just said in the press conference afterwards that that’s what he would’ve done in postponing the game even after it was official.
http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com -- just in case.
I don’t think Phillies fans would have been displeased. Nobody wants to win the championship on a technicality.
I’m sure the Phillies fans would have been, er, gracious. But, I wonder what would happen if an official game they were winning were resumed, the Rays then won, then went back to Tampa and won the series. I imagine there would have been grumbling, to say the least. But, we may still hear that grumbling anyway if Tampa goes on to win this. Still, you’re right that most fans would prefer to win things properly.
Also, in an effort to prove that Bud Selig really is an idiot, it just stopped raining here. Not that it couldn’t start up again, but it cracked me up that it’s been pouring all day & JUST stopped 30 minutes after they canceled the game.
http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com -- just in case.
To be honest, the comments here strike me as really just a lame excuse to say “Bud Selig sucks” at the slightest provocation. Selig made the right decision and did the right thing by talking to club officials before the game started — when nobody knew which team might turn out to be favored by that decision. To micro-criticize which exact inning the game was called isn’t just uncharitable, it’s petty. It’s easy in hindsight to look at the way the half-inning and weather played out, but you can’t tell at the start of a half-inning whether the weather will be getting better or worse.
I don’t disagree with the ultimate decision, I just feel like the way in which it was done is about the worst thing possible. It’s not like the weather was getting any better, and really it was just as bad in the sixth inning as it was in the fifth. If he’s going to invoke his executive privilege to suspend the game no matter what the rulebook says, why not do it before the top of the fifth instead of waiting for the Rays to tie it up?
I suppose that no matter what the decision, noboby’s going to be happy, but I feel like if he’d come out before the game and said “Due to the poor forecast, we’re going to try & get this one in but if we can’t, it will be suspended when conditions warrant no matter the game circumstances, to be resumed when the weather clears up,” everyone would’ve taken this much better.
http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com -- just in case.
The Phillies got one extra inning of Hamels by the umps letting them play longer. I think it would have hurt Philly more if they called it before the 6th.
In theory, yes. In practice, they gave up one run in that one inning, which is more than you’d expect a reliever to give up.
In theory, the Phillies can keep Hamels in the game for an inning or two tomorrow — just like coming in as a reliever on your throwing day. In practice, they won’t, if only because Hamels will be removed for a pinch-hitter the minute play resumes.
Yes it turned out to hurt the Phillies in practice. But the umps had to make the decision before the inning. And before the inning started, I’m sure if you asked the Rays would you rather have a postponement before or after this half inning, they would have chosen before. The Phillies may have preferred otherwise (to play the half inning), so they could get one more inning out of Hamels for that game.
Now if the question was, would you prefer the umps to call the game and declare the Phillies the winner, or play the half inning and maybe have the Rays come back, obviously it would be the other way around. This is what I thought was going on during this time. But apparently (if we can trust Bud, which I’m not so sure of) it was already decided the game was going 9 innings no matter what. So this was not the decision.
All of this is a convoluted way of saying that if the Rays do not score that half inning, it would be the Rays complaining up a storm today.
Hello Brick,
I too was wondering what they’d do with House – move it to FX or move the schedule of House back one week. :-)
Seriously, in regards to baseball, I don’t understand why they have a rule that says that a postseason game is an official game after 4.5 or 5 innings. After all, if you end a game where a team is down by just 1-3 runs with half the game left to go, especially if it is an elminiation game, don’t you think there would be hard feelings by the team who “lost” because the game was called and it was an official game? Likewise, I’m not sure any team wants to advance or win a championship because a game was called.
I can see that rule occurring in the regular season – after all, you have a 162-game schedule you’re trying to complete, but in my opinion, all postseason games should be played to their finality, no matter how long it takes. Yes, the TV schedules may get screwed up in the process, but it’s very unlikely FOX or TBS would give up showing the resumption of the game; they can certainly be flexible with their TV schedules if the need arises. Besides that, the true winners would be determined on the field by defeating the opponent in the 8.5, 9, or extra innings that is required to determine a winner, not because the weather hits at a time when a game becomes official.
That rule (regarding calling a postseason game official after 4.5 or 5 innings) should be struck either after the season or in the next Collective Bargaining Agreement (not sure whether this rule can be struck after the season or not).
Just my 2 cents.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Joe, the rule applies to every game of the whole season, not just the postseason. The issue here is that it seems that the rules should be different for the postseason, and that’s why Selig stepped in. I’m sure we’ll see an official rule change dealing with postseason games before next October.
Anyway, the goal of rules is not to prevent hard feelings.
Hello Jay,
I know the rule applies to the regular season, and I have no problem with that because you have a full 162-game season.
My main point is, why has it taken them so long to realize that this rule applying to the postseason would cause too much controversy to the team that loses because it’s an “official” game and the weather prevented them from finishing the game that night. Especially when that team is only down by a few runs, or in the Rays’ case, 1 run (provided they hadn’t scored that run in the top of the 6th before they suspended it).
As oxforddave mentioned above, if the game would have ended at 2-1 after 5 innings, the Rays would have likely been complaining big-time over losing a WS in a game that they clearly were still in. It would have been a little different if it had been Game 4’s score (10-2 Phillies) – there, you could make the argument that the game was likely a Phillies’ victory anyway, but not when the score is 2-1.
My main point is, it’s surprising that this rule still applies to the postseason and that this precarious predicament hasn’t come up in the past. MLB has been fortunate in some ways that this controversy hasn’t become a problem in the past, which is why I’m surprised that “official game” rule applies to the postseason (and that no one thought of this possible controversy before).
Regarding “hard feelings,” isn’t the point of rules to have fair play and to ensure, to the best of our ability, that we come out with an undisputed, clear winner? Doesn’t that mean that “hard feelings” over “unfair” play does come into play when it comes to making rules? Ending a WS game after only 5 innings and with both teams clearly in position to win the game certainly seems to me like an “unfair” way to award a victory, and in that specific case, a WS championship to one team over another team that hadn’t been defeated in a 8.5, 9, or extra-inning game.
Just my 2 cents.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
My wife is very happy about that.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Oct 28, 2008 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions
So, just to be sure, Ryan and Jay will both be on duty tonight since the game starts immediately after a 30-minute advertisement for a political candidate, right? I’d hate for things to get unseemly.
I LIKE IKE
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Oct 29, 2008 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Sure, why not. Speaking of Stephenson, have you read Anathem yet? I’m not sucked in quite yet, but getting there.
I just finished the Baroque Cycle, so I’m a bit Stephensoned out, but man, he’s a talented writer. I’ll probably read Cryptonomicon first, though.
I kind of liked The Diamond Age more than Snow Crash, although one does have to love the name Hiro Protagonist. I assumed no one one read The Baroque Cycle before Cryptonomicon, but go get it and read it now. Seriously, go. We’ll wait here. I became fairly obsessed with Bletchley Park after that.
I liked Snow Crash the most, though I haven’t read anything post-Cryptonomicon either. Diamond Age is also very good. I actually re-read Cryptonomicon & liked his writing style much less the second time through for whatever reason.
DISCLAIMER: I may be bitter.
There’s an interview thread on Slashdot where Stephenson answers the question “who would win a fight, you or William Gibson?” That Stephenson answers the question (albeit not seriously – I think) explains the nerdlove. Snow Crash was originally developed as an interactive game (Stephenson was a programmer before he was a writer, thus In The Beginning Was The Command Line), and I wish I could play it.
I suspect that I’ve now crossed a line.
Hmm. I have never read Stephenson and doubt I will after looking at his wiki page but it has sparked some curiosity:
Do you guys read Richard Powers?
At first I thought you meant Tim Powers, which is a different beast altogether. Galatea 2.2 was Richard Powers, right?
me neither
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Oct 30, 2008 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Same. Maybe I should learn to read.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Oct 30, 2008 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions
i generally stick with non-fiction
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Oct 30, 2008 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Sci fi novels. Neal Stephenson is one of the best sci fi writers out there. Cryptonomicon is a weird quasi-historical novel centered on the WWII era code-breaking efforts involving math geniuses, plus a bunch of other things (it’s 900 pages long). Snowcrash is classic cyperpunk dystopian fiction. I haven’t read the more recent stuff (like the Baroque Trilogy people refer to) which, I think, is also “historical” fiction/fantasy/sci fi (help me out here guys).
We’re displaying geek credentials by talking about sci fi on a statistically-sophisticated baseball blog. We all use Macs and have pens in our pockets.
I think I was talking to a girl the day those books came out.
But seriously, sounds interesting. I haven’t been able to get into sci-fi in a while, though. The last of that vein I read was one of Turtledove’s.
I’m reading A Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius right now. So hip.
Steel Nick
The Baroque Cycle is kind of hard to describe, other than that it takes place in the late 17th/early 18th centuries, touches on science, math, the Newton/Leibniz calculus dispute, the Royal Society, economics (especially currency), piracy, alchemy, and politics.
The main scene is London (especially in the last volume), but the action pretty much goes everywhere in the world (France, what is now Germany, North Africa, India, The Phillipines, Mexico, Boston etc), and the characters include historical figures (Louis XIV, Robert Hooke, various Kings and Queens of England, Peter the Great, Isaac Newton, etc) with the main fictional characters interacting them.
There’s around 3000+ pages over three volumes.
I play too many video games
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Oct 30, 2008 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
long discussions of complicated policy aren’t possible when everyone is sitting on uncomfortable stiff square furniture and sleeping on lumpy, thin mattresses
by APV on Oct 29, 2008 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Hey, I gotta give it to IKEA. The upside to their ugly, uncomfortable furniture is that it at least won’t last more than a year.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Oct 29, 2008 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, gotta keep myself on my toes
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Oct 29, 2008 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
something I teach about. Most of the racial hygiene laws created by the Nazi party in Germany during the 1930s were based on existing laws in the U.S. and U.K. Laws requiring forced sterilization of people deemed mentally incompetent were common in the U.S. and famously, in the case of Buck v. Bell, were held up by the Supreme Court. Oliver Wendell Holmes the chief justice famously quipped, “three generations of idiots is enough” in supporting the decision. The governor of Virginia recently issued an apology for the ~7500 forced sterilizations the state carried out in the 1910s and 1920s.
The actual language of the decision was:
It is better for all the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind . . . three generations of imbeciles are enough.
Oliver Wendell Holmes never served as Chief Justice of the SCOTUS. He was an Associate Justice from 1902 to 1932.
For those of you scoring at home, Buck v. Bell has never been specifically overturned by the Court. However, in Skinner v. Oklahoma, the Court did strike down Oklahoma’s forced sterilization law which applied to habitual offenders – quite literally three strikes and you’re out. The Court focused on the argument that the law violated the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment since it excluded white collar crimes like embezzlement. Some more cynical observers of the Court have focused on the fact that Jack Skinner was man and Carrie Buck was a woman.
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
damn…messing up my own stuff. I should have rememberd the imbecile part correctly, as imbecile was a technical term based on IQ score.
I am afraid to admit this, but I had looked up the definitions for imbecile among other words. I remember the dictionary definition equated the intelligence of an imbecile to an average 7-8 year old
I’ve got to go back and look at my notes, but I think imbecile, idiot, and moron all have technical definitions based on IQ scores
In terms of IQ, idiot was below 25, imbecile 26-50 and moron 51-70. Google brings one to this lovely definition of the terms:
Types of Mental DeficiencyIdiot
The idiot is one whose mental capacity is below the third-year level; they are clumsy, awkward, untidy and require constant supervision in the performance of the simplest requirement of living. Most idiots learn a few simple words but rarely learn to talk intelligently.Imbecile
The imbecile may attain a mental level of six or seven years. Imbeciles can generally talk with a very crude vocabulary, can be taught simple manual tasks.Moron
The moron ranges in mental accomplishment between the eight-year level and the lower adult normal which is ordinarily reached at about the fifteenth year. Constituting more than 80 percent of all forms of mental defect, the morons are one of the serious problems of modern times. Having no gross physical defects, they present themselves as a shiftless, unstable group which gravitates to the lowest level of manual labor and social activity. Out of this class are the recruited, the petty criminal, the prostitute, and the ne’er-do-well.
Let’s tone down the blatantly Pro-Whig propaganda here…. I mean, c’mon, are you some kind of “recruited”?
Interesting aside: “Van Buren” actually means “Hole of Hell” in Old Icelandic. Of course, Van Buren himself was of Dutch descent, so that’s just a coincidence.
(Note: “Van Buren” doesn’t actually mean “Hole of Hell” in Old Icelandic.
Björk probably knows.)
by Logodaedalus on Oct 30, 2008 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
There was a “Probably.” in there a line above “Björk” when I wrote it. Bah.
by Logodaedalus on Oct 30, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
The one wearing the swan at the 2001 Oscars.
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
and a lame president
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Oct 31, 2008 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Don’t Whig out on us with all this political talk.
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
by Harry Doyle on Oct 31, 2008 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Equal time for Chuck’s favorite candidate.
William Henry Harrison – the pride of Ohio – served the shortest time as President becoming the first to die in office after 30 days, 12 hours and 30 minutes.
His Log Cabin and Hard Cider campaign would have been a hit with LGT though.
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
The 2005 Juan Gonzales of Presidents.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Oct 29, 2008 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s kind of funny—Ohio humor—to make light of the “almost heroics” of our short-tenured Presidents, like Garfield and Harrison, but can you imagine that happening in the modern era and the upheaval and unrest that would cause?
Something like this happened with Chernenko and Andropov in the USSR, although that was a consequence of a small coterie of old guys having all of the power.
Would it really cause upheaval and unrest? Or just weeks of constant yammering on the news channels?
Yammering, although I don’t think it would be weeks. The lifespan of a story nowadays seems to be <7 days
I think the short news cycle was bad for Ashley, but a good thing for her be-socked client.
Also, Ashley’s ‘fame’ continued throughout the summer with paparazzi from the NY Post staking out her (and her mother’s) beach going adventures at the Jersey Shore. (Sea Girt for those who may be interested).
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
I was referring more to the wandering bozo who might alight upon our fair blog.
by NickFantana on Oct 29, 2008 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
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