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Omar Vizquel in 09'?

Img_0261_sized_tiny by ClevelandCrazy29 on

I really don't know if this is something that the Indians even consider going into the offseason. However, I noticed that there is a guy named Omar Vizquel that will be a free agent. Do you think that Shapiro would ever bring Omar back (if he decided to play one more year).This would increase fan support, leadership, and maybe even bring back the magic of the 90's. I also think Omar would be fine with not playing on a daily basis, Like Trot Nixon did in 07'. Omar has meant so much to this city and it sure would be nice to see him in a Tribe uniform for his final year. Hasn't he even said he wants to finish his career in Cleveland. Does anyone agree with this?

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Ugh, no. He barely managed to OPS+ his age last year.

http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com -- just in case.

by zempf on Oct 3, 2008 4:58 PM EDT   0 recs

Like i said zempf he wouldn’t have to be an everyday player. Maybe just having him back for a final year would be something special.

by ClevelandCrazy29 on Oct 3, 2008 5:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Do you honestly think that bringing Omar back would “magically” help the Indians win?

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Oct 3, 2008 5:20 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I believe Omar most recently said he’d like to end his career with the Giants. No offense to the guy, but he tends to be loyal to the paycheck. Let’s not romanticize this.

To be honest, Omar would just duplicate Jamey Carroll’s skills, adding only his switch-hitting, and Carroll may be better at practically everything at this point.

It would be nice, but it wouldn’t be good.

by Jay on Oct 3, 2008 5:12 PM EDT   0 recs

This is so true! Although I don’t think he was as greedy as Manny and Thome. I’m just thinking after the response during that Giants series I think it would be an even better response if he where in a Tribe uniform.

by ClevelandCrazy29 on Oct 3, 2008 5:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Don’t kid yourself; almost all ballplayers are greedy. You can think that Manny and Thome are more greedy just because they left Cleveland for more money, but almost every player in their situation would have done the same thing (as would have almost every fan).

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Oct 3, 2008 5:19 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I don’t think players are indebted to organizations where they began their careers. Sure I would have loved if Manny and Thome had stayed, but I don’t feel betrayed by them leaving, nor do I consider them greedy because of it.

by world dictator on Oct 3, 2008 10:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

But, of course, they ARE, er, interested in money?

by peter m on Oct 3, 2008 11:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I wish most Indians fans agreed with you.

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Oct 4, 2008 10:44 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

This is a very good point. The first team a player plays for gets to pay the player way below the market rate. If anything, a player should feel probably feel more indebted to the team that hands him a stack of cash while his skills are in decline than to the team that paid him the league minimum for two years back when he was good. The original team at least gets its money’s worth.

by still ill on Oct 4, 2008 12:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Omar didn’t start his career with the Indians, he started it with the Mariners.

Vizquel was paid salaries of $2.35 million and $2.9 million by the Indians in his last two seasons before free agency, 1994 and 1995.

I don’t know if he ever actually filed for free agency, only that Hart signed him to a six-year deal for a guaranteed $18 million after the 1995 season, with a club option for 2002. Some considered this a vast over-payment at the time, but it only took Vizquel three years to become unhappy with it.

A potentially divisive situation is developing in Cleveland involving Indians shortstop Omar Vizquel.

Vizquel is unhappy with his contract, a seven-year, $21 million deal he signed after the 1995 season. Vizquel is not even halfway through the contract now and realizes that at $3 million per season, he vastly undervalued his worth on the current market.

That point was rubbed in his face throughout the winter, when lesser talents like Jose Offerman (four years, $26 million), Royce Clayton (four years, $18 million) and Delino DeShields (three years, $12.5 million) signed new contracts.

Vizquel will be the lowest paid member of Cleveland’s infield, trailing first baseman Jim Thome ($7.3 million), second baseman Roberto Alomar ($6.5 million) and third baseman Travis Fryman ($5.25 million).

The upshot: Vizquel wants Cleveland to restructure his contract and has threatened to hold out of spring camp or ask for a trade if it doesn’t. But so far, the only response by Cleveland officials has been silence.

General Manager John Hart faces a delicate balance, in that Vizquel might be Cleveland’s most popular player with fans. And Hart remembers how an unhappy Eddie Murray, who felt he had been low-balled in negotiations, helped poison the Cleveland clubhouse in 1996.

And yet Hart correctly points out that he assumed considerable risk by signing Vizquel to such a long-term deal. The Indians under Hart have never renegotiated a contract – and a Cleveland newspaper reports that a handful of veteran Indians players have contacted Hart to urge him not to renegotiate Vizquel’s contract.

Seattle Times, January 1999.

See also “The Renegotiator” from BP.

by Jay on Oct 4, 2008 5:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I was referring to Thome and Manny specifically. (As far as tribes players are concerned.)

Though my principal, which doesn’t apply to Vizquel, still acknowledges that some people, like Omar, do negotiate in bad faith.

by world dictator on Oct 5, 2008 4:53 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It’s not just the ballplayers .. it’s the unions and agents too. They apply pressure on these guys to get every last dime they can, otherwise they are letting down everyone else in their union.

by Toxicadam on Oct 3, 2008 11:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Um, no, he was every bit as greedy as those guys and more, he just wasn’t worth as much.

Omar made a point of publicly grandstanding about his contract, making the club look bad in the media for absolutely no reason, demanding to renegotiate his deal with three years still left on it — and let me assure you, that was totally unheard-of back then.

In 2003, he also blocked trades to any club but Seattle. Then when we worked out a trade with Seattle to get Carlos Guillen, he insisted that they had to give him another guaranteed year at $6 million in order to approve the trade. Since it wasn’t clear how well his knee had healed from a recent surgery, of course Seattle nixed the deal as too risky.

So we ended up keeping Vizquel all the way through his walk year, 2004, for absolutely no reason, and all we got was the draft picks — #33 and #102 overall. (Miraculously, the #102 pick has already panned out for us, but this is something of a fluke.)

Make no mistake, Vizquel negotiated in bad faith, went for the bottom-line and self-interest at all times, and he cost this team significant resources in doing so.

by Jay on Oct 3, 2008 5:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

forgive me, but who was #102?

by Brick. on Oct 3, 2008 5:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Jensen Lewis can’t lose

by LeCavs Matt on Oct 3, 2008 7:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It doesn’t matter. If we would have got Guillen, his TB would have flared up for sure.

by piersall on Oct 3, 2008 7:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

You’re really ruining my pedestal here.

by fwembt on Oct 3, 2008 11:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Except Omar gets cheered here when he returns and Thome gets booed. And Brick doesn’t post “BOOO Omar” ever time his name gets mentioned on this site.

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Oct 4, 2008 10:43 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

OMAR NON MI AMIGO.

(I don’t speak Spanish, so don’t bother correcting it.)

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Oct 4, 2008 2:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

for the record, i type booo thome every time someone makes a prediction. long story. i have no love for omar either, though – or any indian playing for another team, really, whatever the circumstances under which they left. i don’t pine for former players. i root for the current ones – unless it’s shane spencer. i could never get behind him as an indian.

by Brick. on Oct 5, 2008 1:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

OK, I never caught on to the correlation.

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Oct 5, 2008 5:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Also, I will sometimes root for former Indians players that I liked, such as Thome or CC, if their game doesn’t involve the Indians. That’s why I was rooting for the Brewers this year in the playoffs. I’m an Indians fan, of course, but I’m also a baseball fan, so when I’m watching the playoffs and the Indians aren’t involved I have to find another team to root for. That doesn’t mean that I “pine” for former Indians, but I can still cheer for them to do well.

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Oct 5, 2008 5:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

www.omarforthirdbasecoach.com

Pinch-hitting Carroll for Marte at this point in the season is inexcusable. I’ve had it with Wedge. He’s a younger, paler Dusty Baker.

by emd2k3 on Oct 8, 2008 12:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think Omar would make a tremendous base coach. I’m all for it

by Roger Dorn on Oct 3, 2008 5:36 PM EDT   1 recs

like THIRD, maybe?

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Oct 6, 2008 10:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The above went in the wrong place. It’s supposed to be here.

Pinch-hitting Carroll for Marte at this point in the season is inexcusable. I’ve had it with Wedge. He’s a younger, paler Dusty Baker.

by emd2k3 on Oct 8, 2008 12:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I have never shared my fellow Indians Fan’s dogmatic reverence for Omar Vizquel. I’m 28, grew up w/ those 90s teams, and he’s honestly my least favorite “longtime” member from those days. I admit this could be irrational.

by kwoog on Oct 3, 2008 9:21 PM EDT   0 recs

Everyone check out the AL standings on the right side. WTF is going on? We are in a time warp.

by Toxicadam on Oct 3, 2008 10:19 PM EDT   0 recs

you’ve probably noticed this by now, but it’s simply the standing AFTER July 9th.

by macasson on Oct 3, 2008 10:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

That’s great, but we were 6 games under .500 by July 9th

by Toxicadam on Oct 3, 2008 10:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

how about 16 games under

by palcal on Oct 4, 2008 12:08 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

37-53, low water mark

by palcal on Oct 4, 2008 12:15 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

As long as Omar comes back to sign that one-day contract and retire (ala NFL), I’m all for it. Otherwise, fuggedaboutit.

Reality speaking, do we have a free spot on the 25 man roster for him anyways? Mart, Choo, and Gutz can’t be sent down. So if he “does” sign, one of those guys is gone, or Garko/Francisco start in the minors. Not gonna happen.

by talonk on Oct 3, 2008 11:17 PM EDT   0 recs

Who cares about Marte. If he is still an Indian after the offseason something is wrong.

by ClevelandCrazy29 on Oct 3, 2008 11:18 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, it might mean they had re-signed Blake to play third, which would be ‘wrong’ (as you put it).

by peter m on Oct 4, 2008 11:24 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

and maybe even bring back the magic of the 90’s.

No. No he won’t.

By the way, welcome back Crazy.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Oct 4, 2008 12:25 AM EDT   0 recs

Does anyone know anything else about Brantley besides what the New- Herald said. I really do like this guy though.

by ClevelandCrazy29 on Oct 4, 2008 9:45 AM EDT   0 recs

Why don’t you check out the thread about him?

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Oct 4, 2008 10:47 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I checked out the thread about him. Thank you, it was very useful information and if everything is true about him we should have a very good outfield in years to come. How close is he to being Major League ready though. I have heard several things from he already is ready to he is only a few months in Columbus away from being ready?

by ClevelandCrazy29 on Oct 4, 2008 3:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

my guess is, and it’s pretty safe to say that this would easily be consensus here, is that he won’t be up until mid 2010 at the earliest

Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.

by Gradyforpresident on Oct 4, 2008 3:24 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

he already is ready to he is only a few months in Columbus away from being ready?

I have heard absolutely nothing like this, and I’m curious where you did.

If he reached Cleveland in 2009 it would be a miraculous ascent.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Oct 4, 2008 10:19 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

To tell you the truth I forget where i saw this but I believe it was on news-herald.com with all the comments. However most of the people commenting had no clue someone even went on to say that they thought that Jackson was the best part of the deal so I didn’t take it as ligit information.

by ClevelandCrazy29 on Oct 4, 2008 11:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

A pretty good rule of thumb is to ignore half the comments here — including some of mine — and all of the comments on every other web site.

by Jay on Oct 5, 2008 1:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Should we ignore that comment?

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Oct 5, 2008 5:00 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Can you?

by Jay on Oct 6, 2008 1:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Evidently not.

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Oct 6, 2008 2:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I wouldn’t say miraculous. He’s at an age where an explosive jump in both tools and skills is not all that unusual, and he also might go from an injury-hampered 2008 to a fully healthy 2009. Think about the jump made by Huff this season or Kouzmanoff in 2006.

by Jay on Oct 5, 2008 1:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

We had a pretty good discussion of Brantley and the other potential PTBNL guys in this thread, when the trade first happened. You’ll notice that in the initial story I wrote, I was a little skeptical of Brantley’s package of skills, but later on in the discussion, after I’ve taken a closer look at his overall profile, I speculate that he might be the best prospect of all the guys mentioned.

by Jay on Oct 4, 2008 6:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

When did we become so nice?

Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.

by Gradyforpresident on Oct 4, 2008 12:21 PM EDT   0 recs

Yeah, how did everyone manage to have a civil conversation from such a ridiculous starting point? I’m impressed.

by still ill on Oct 4, 2008 12:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I got all excited when I saw the title, but it was late. I was tired.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Oct 4, 2008 2:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The season’s over. Our adopted NL team crapped out in three games. The Red Sox look poised to go to the NLCS again, drowning us in even more Nation claptrap. The White Sox refused to fold adequately in their series. We’re all just numb from the pain. At least the Cubs lost, so there is one franchise with a longer title-less streak than ours.

PS Only bring back Omar if we completely reassemble the 99 team in Buffalo Columbus. That seems to be the place to collect has beens and never weres.

by FredOx on Oct 6, 2008 9:28 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Wow, it would be depressing if the Red Sox won the NLCS, too.

Also, the Cubs’ EPIC fail is plenty of cause for celebration.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Oct 6, 2008 10:52 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Oops. My brain is broken from pounding my head against the wall.

by FredOx on Oct 6, 2008 11:25 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Haha, no worries, just bein’ a dick.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Oct 6, 2008 11:43 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Charlie Manuel has a shot at the World Series. That’s good.

I never shared this adoption of the Brewers. Really a desperate team—it shows what happens when you have a small-market franchise that isn’t run as well as the Indians. They sold their soul to the devil for a shot at the postseason, and got two home games. That’s what you get for having Jason Kendall as your catcher. And Craig Counsell. And Dale Sveum.

The Indians are to blame for the White Sox. And I do believe someone on the Angels other than Mike Napoli will get an XBH one of these games.

by odradek on Oct 6, 2008 11:22 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It’s not like the Brewers aren’t a well-run organization— A lot of teams would kill for those drafts. But I see what you’re saying.

That Napoli home run was Epic Not-Fail.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Oct 6, 2008 11:24 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The first one, I mean.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Oct 6, 2008 11:24 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

They do have great drafts. Did you see the PD on the failure of the Indians’ drafts? What saves the Indians is signing of Latin players and Shapiro’s ability to select prospects from other teams.

by odradek on Oct 6, 2008 11:29 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

And Shapiro’s ability to figure out which GMs are most desperate. And then fleece them. Rinse and repeat, year after year.

-Erik

by drerikbrady on Oct 6, 2008 12:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

"did someone mention me?"

no, not the guy on the right.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Oct 6, 2008 10:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes, and we’re all quite aware how bad we’ve been. But like you and the good doctor mention, it’s not all about the draft.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Oct 6, 2008 1:21 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree on the Brewers. I was rooting for CC, but never could get into that team. I have a hard time watching another team in the playoffs that I watch and think the Indians would beat in the postseason had they made it

by Roger Dorn on Oct 6, 2008 11:27 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Like the White Sox. But the Tribe can’t beat NL teams to save their lives.

by odradek on Oct 6, 2008 11:31 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I was always a fan of the Brewers before CC got there. I love strikeout pitchers, so there’s Ben Sheets (and his will-he-or-won’t-he effectiveness always seemed fascinating). I love young phenom pitchers, so there’s Gallardo. I love Prince Fielder and I love Ryan Braun (especially Braun). They were a fun team to watch when Kendall wasn’t batting.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Oct 6, 2008 1:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, I was a Brewers fan but I really dig the Phils too. I’d love to see them win a title.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Oct 6, 2008 11:45 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

My adoption of the Brewers lasted only through the regular season. I liked them, but my only real adopted team is the Phillies.

Maybe someone can tell me a reason an Indians fan shouldn’t root for the Phillies. I guess you could hate them for being a major market club, or for outbidding us for Thome, but they still spend less than the Tigers.

I’m not thrilled about the Cubs’ loss at all. I don’t really care about the streak stuff, and the Cubs were genuinely a pretty great team and could have made some history this season. The Dodgers, meanwhile, had the eighth-best record in the NL — I’m surprised more people haven’t complained about this, it’s the worst playoff ceding ever under the six-division format. Talk about imbalance, bad enough some clubs try to buy a ring in December, these guys are trying to buy one in JULY. It makes me sick. We’ve got to do something about the NL crapping out a lousy team into the postseason — this is now four years in a row we’ve got an NL team with 82 to 85 wins in there.

My rooting priority at this point:

1. Phillies
2. Phillies
3. Phillies
4. Rays
5. White Sox
6. Angels
7. Red Sox
8. Dodgers

I know this will be controversial, but no team from L.A. deserves anything. I honestly would rather see the White Sox win than the Angels, and the Red Sox rather than the Dodgers. At least another Red Sox title would continue to put the lie to “competitive balance,” while the best a Dodgers win would do is to continue to over-glorify Torre and Manny and generally cheapen the whole value of a World Series title.

by Jay on Oct 6, 2008 1:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The Phillies are a cool team. I’ve always liked them—even from the days of Von Hayes.

I agree about the LA stuff, though I would like to see Manny to continue to hit like he’s in a higher league, and it would be good to have Torre in the WS (just to mess with the New York press), and it would be great if Casey were to hit an Aaron Boone-like 11th inning homer off Papelbon, so someone else will sign him to a three year $30 million contract. Maybe someone in the AL even.

But the White Sox? Another year of incredible good fortune? This time with a team nowhere near as good as the 2005 version? When Kenny Williams gets lucky (again)? No way. I’ll root for the Bostons to beat the Chisox, maybe.

I heard the Tampa broadcasters say yesterday that dome teams are 11-28 on the road in the postseason.

by odradek on Oct 6, 2008 2:12 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

12-28 now then.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Oct 6, 2008 10:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I pretty much agree. I could definately root for the Phillies, at least in the NL. I would hate Boston winning because of their annoying fans, but at least they’d deserve it — they’re a very good team with the best run differential in the AL. I hate seeing crappy teams get hot in the playoffs and win the World Series (i.e. Cardinals in ’06). Not only do they not deserve it, but then we get to read articles about how they “just know how to win” and crap like that. And I would really get annoyed with all the stories about Torre if the Dodgers won.

I like the Rays’ story, and I’m glad to see them winning, but their fans don’t deserve a championship. It was bad enough watching the Marlins win two World Series while nobody cared, I really don’t want to see another Florida team do that. I guess having never seen a Cleveland team win a championship in my lifetime will do that to me. I do like most of the Rays players — especially Longoria. And Joe Maddon seems like a cool guy.

I guess I’m rooting for Phillies v. Rays.

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Oct 6, 2008 2:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

You mean to say that baseball is still being played this season? Huh, I’ll have to look into that.

-Erik

by drerikbrady on Oct 6, 2008 4:20 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs