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Rule change for postseason?

 

"Now that the Angels are out, the team with the best record in baseball has won the World Series just twice in the 16 postseasons since baseball creatively went to the wild-card playoff format. If the Dodgers win it all this year -- and if there is such a thing as a favorite going into the second round, they might well be it -- the playoff team with the worst of the eight records will have won the World Series three times. One can sympathize with the Angels' frustrations, especially after the final game with the botched squeeze, Jason Bay's bloop and Jed Lowrie's ground ball through the hole. We understand that after winning 100 games they believed they were the best team in baseball, but the fact is they didn't play well in the Boston series."—Peter Gammons, in his latest espn.com blog

Recently, Jay wrote about rule changes: "If you want to talk rule changes, it’s a whole other discussion, but like most diehard fans, I’m totally sure that my rules would be a lot better than the current ones. I personally would rather change the rules for postseason berths."

A team should be rewarded for winning the most games in the regular season. I think it's lame that the Cardinals won the World Series a few years ago. I'd hate to be an Angels' fan after the way they lost to Boston. I think the wildcard team has too much of an advantage. Should they come in down 0-1? Should they have one fewer home date (teams would squawk about lost revenue)? Let me point out that wildcard teams tend to come out of the AL East. Big market teams.

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Why exactly do you think wildcard teams have an advantage?

by Voltaire on Oct 8, 2008 8:02 PM EDT   0 recs

Probably just because they enter the postseason on equal terms with teams that won their divisions. I’m not sure, but given the random and arbitrary nature of a best-of-five series, I think wild-card teams should have to carry more weight, like a racehorse would have to. And, as Gammons notes, if the Dodgers win (still a big if), the playoff team with the worst record will have won the Series three out of 16 times. Which is more than teams with the best record (2 out of 16).

by odradek on Oct 8, 2008 8:14 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hello odradek,

I can understand the argument and the frustration, but what happens if we are the ones who win that Wild Card. We’ve nearly done it in both 2000 and 2005 – that could be us who has that disadvantage?

I’m not saying some adjustment couldn’t be made to make it harder for the Wild Card to advance, but at the same time, the Angels did NOT play well in that series. Their offense was virtually nonexistant, mostly because their table-setters and guys who force their actions on the bases did next-to-nothing (only Figgins made his presence felt among those guys), both Santana and Saunders did not have particularly good starts, their bullpen was shaky, as both Shields and K-Rod were erratic, and even their defense, which was supposedly one of the better ones in the league, I believe, faltered and didn’t play well.

Plus, as I mentioned in another thread, they didn’t execute the fundamentals that they normally did during the season very well. The poor baserunning by Guerrero and Hunter (I think) were costly, plus that poor execution by Aybar on the squeeze bunt attempt (personally, I think he tried too hard to conceal it from the Red Sox; if he puts down a half-way decent bunt, combined with Willits’ speed, that run scores fairly easily) helped to doom the Angels. I don’t think the fact that the Red Sox were a better-than-expected Wild Card had THAT much to do with their advancing and the Angels going home. If the Angels had executed as well as they had throughout most of the season, chances are that they would be hosting the Rays for Game 1 of the ALCS on Friday night and the Red Sox would be home right now.

Plus, regarding making it more difficult for the Wild Card to advance, another issue that has to be considered is – is it that fair for a team that is only the Wild Card to be punished for not winning their division, even if they win 95 games like Boston did in a division that was arguably one of the tougher ones in baseball, as compared to giving home-field advantage to the White Sox, who didn’t even win 90 games after playing 163 games to enter the postseason, while arguably playing a weaker division?

If you’re going to make it harder on the Wild Card to advance in the postseason, I think you also have to consider a point Jay or someone else on LGT mentioned some time ago about possibly giving the home-field advantage to the Wild Card team if they have more wins than the division opponent, especially if the division the Wild Card team comes from is collectively stronger than the team the division opponent comes from, and I’m pretty sure that the AL East was stronger than the AL Central this year.

If we can’t address all these issues, then I’d rather leave the playoff format as is – after all, the Angels didn’t play well in many facets of the game, and I think that had as much, if not more, to do with why the Angels are home right now than the Red Sox being a better-than-expected Wild Card.

Just my 2 cents.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Oct 8, 2008 8:08 PM EDT   0 recs

I just think the nature of a wildcard team is usually one that:

is very hot during the second half of the season
has over 90 wins
has been playing “playoff baseball” for the entire month of September just to get in

You factor those three things in and I don’t think it’s any surprise that many of them do so well.

by Toxicadam on Oct 8, 2008 10:25 PM EDT   0 recs

Why wouldn’t these apply to division teams?

by Voltaire on Oct 8, 2008 10:43 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

On average, wild card races should be expected to have more teams vying for the spot… on the other hand, there’s no evidence that wild card teams do any better than chance at winning it all, so there might not be a real effect.

by Logodaedalus on Oct 8, 2008 10:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Many division champions win w/o 90 wins and some “coast” into the post-season playing .500 (or below) ball .. because they had wrapped up their division so early.

I know I am generalizing .. but you can find examples of what I am talking about in recent history.

by Toxicadam on Oct 9, 2008 5:49 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

So, as it stands, the teams with the best and worst records have each won 2 out of the last 15. You’ll notice that the percentage of wins is almost exactly equal to 1/8 (if the Dodgers don’t win, both will be exactly 1/8), which is what it you would expect if the winner were determined entirely by chance.

It’s a small sample, but it appears that regular season record is completely useless as a predictor of postseason success. This doesn’t strike me as all that surprising, given the ups and downs teams go through during the course of the long season — you would expect record in September, say, to be a better predictor than record overall.

As to whether wild card teams should be at a disadvantage, I think that would be a misplaced “punishment” — after all, as Joe points out, the wild card team may well have a better record than one or possibly even both of the other division winners. If we were going to penalize someone, why not make it the team with the worst record, rather than the wild card team, and change the matchup rules so that the best record faces off against that team, rather than the wild card, in the first round?

by Logodaedalus on Oct 8, 2008 10:45 PM EDT   1 recs

Should they have one fewer home date (teams would squawk about lost revenue)?

They already do play one less home date than the higher ranked team.

Also! The Red Sox Runs Scored vs. Runs Allowed: 845-694. Angels: 765-697. So I’m sorry, but who’s the better team going into this matchup? Are we just rewarding the Angels for getting to play Seattle 19 times?

the team with the best record in baseball has won the World Series just twice in the 16 postseasons since baseball creatively went to the wild-card playoff format.

I see what he’s saying. I just don’t care.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Oct 8, 2008 10:56 PM EDT   1 recs

the team with the best record in baseball has won the World Series just twice in the 16 postseasons since baseball creatively went to the wild-card playoff format.

So? Since 1994, the team with the best record in football has won the Super Bowl twice (although there have been some ties for best record where a team beat a team with the same record), and wild card teams have won 3 times.

by FredOx on Oct 8, 2008 11:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Right — there’s nothing there of any statistical significance.

by Logodaedalus on Oct 8, 2008 11:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

So football is an example of a good postseason? Football sucks. Go 8-8 and pray for rain.

by odradek on Oct 9, 2008 12:06 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I’m not sure what that last statement is supposed to mean.

I don’t think Fred is saying that football has a better postseason that baseball, just that the results from baseball (as to who wins the championship) are similar to the results from football. So we shouldn’t think that anything is “wrong” with baseball’s format.

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Oct 9, 2008 11:02 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Right. I think football has too many playoff teams; at least it’s better than hockey and basketball. The point is that any playoff format with more than two teams is going to result in outliers. You can try to manipulate it to ensure the “best” team has an advantage, or let the teams play.

by FredOx on Oct 9, 2008 1:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

By one less date, I mean a wildcard team would play its one and only home game as game three, and their opponent would get four home dates.

I agree (and Gammons mentions) that in terms of run differentials the Angels were worse than the Jays. But I surmise that a wild card team may by nature go into the postseason on a hot streak—as Tox suggests—perhaps because they have to compete with more teams. But, as we’ve argued elsewhere, run differentials will get you only the Pythagorean pennant. Wins are what is counted, even if you get the lucky break to play the Mariners that much (which didn’t help the Indians much, by the way).

Since postseasons matter so much to fans (meaning a team can win 100 games and be considered a failure if they don’t win their pennant), and since the first rounds are so susceptible to fortune, why not give winning teams a leg up, or more of a leg up?

Otherwise, you get this sort of pot luck “anything can happen,” “just get in and take it from there” attitude that seems to diminish the season. But then, I liked nine-game World Series.

by odradek on Oct 9, 2008 12:16 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Wins are what is counted

… And in the postseason, the Red Sox won more games.

Since postseasons matter so much to fans

And what do you say to the fans of a wild card team? Tough sh**? Or does the postseason matter less to them?

Yeah, it sucks to be an Angels fan. But at the end of every year it sucks on some degree to be the fan of every team except for one. If we start changing the rules because fans get unhappy when a good team loses than why have a postseason?

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Oct 9, 2008 12:25 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I totally agree. Besides, who ever said that the postseason was there to determine the best team? It’s not.

Incidentally, according to third-order wins at Baseball Prospectus, the Red Sox won 101 games, while the Angels won 84. It’s pretty clear that the Red Sox were a better team.

by Peter Bendix on Oct 9, 2008 10:13 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I’m not a big believer in the indicators of the postseason. I’d rather win 105 games in the regular season and lose in the DS on a couple of weird breaks than be an 84 game winner that wins the Series.

The regular season matters in the postseason. The team with the best record gets homefield advantage (except in the WS). So why do all eight teams start October on equal footing?

So, yeah, I would say to fans of a wildcard team: Too bad. Your team is not here as a division winner. Therefore you are going to be handicapped.

Do teams that are playing well in September do well in the postseason? Do teams that coast in tend to struggle? I can think of anecdotal examples—the Mariners when they won 116 in 2001 and fell down in the postseason. Maybe teams that win the wildcard are, by nature of their challenge, better suited for October baseball.

by odradek on Oct 9, 2008 10:34 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

BP did a study about what leads to success in the postseason. They called in the “Secret Sauce.” Contrary to popular belief, playing the best at the end of the regular season doesn’t correlate with playoff success. Neither does having the best record, a veteren team, a “winning” manager, or any other reasons you may hear from analysts. Here are their findings:

With the pennant races settling down more quickly than we might like, it’s not too early to start thinking about which teams might have the pole position in the post-season derby. As Dayn Perry and I found in Baseball Between the Numbers, regular season success is no guarantee of playoff performance. Rather, there are three particular characteristics of teams that win more than their share of post-season games. These characteristics are as follows:

A power pitching staff, as measured by normalized strikeout rate.
A good closer, as measured by WXRL.
A good defense, as measured by FRAA.

Of the dozens of team characteristics that we tested for statistical significance, in terms of their relationship with winning post-season games and series, these were the only three that mattered. Ending the year hot doesn’t make a whit of difference, for example, nor does having a veteran club, or a smallball offense.

Rob Neyer used the Secret Sauce formula to analyze the Angels’ playoff losses.

The Angels have now lost Division Series to the Red Sox in 2004, 2007 and 2008; in 2005 they beat the Yankees in the ALDS but lost to the White Sox in a five-game ALCS. In those four years, they ranked second, first, fourth and fourth in run differential among American League postseason teams. In the same four years they were third, first, second, and second in secret sauce.

As it happens, every time the Angels have faced Boston, the Red Sox entered the postseason with the No. 1 secret sauce in the majors. Which goes part of the way toward explaining why they’ve done so well.

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Oct 9, 2008 11:17 AM EDT to parent up   1 recs

Thanks, Brad. I always wondered what Special Sauce was, but never bothered to look it up. The Bosox were first this year, with a slight lead over Anaheim. Third were the Cubs (?). The Tribe was 21st.

by odradek on Oct 9, 2008 10:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Figures Brad would know the ingredients of the Secret Sauce

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Oct 10, 2008 4:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Isn’t this a photo of Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg photoshopped onto Judge Reinhold from Fast Times?

by afh4 on Oct 11, 2008 12:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I’d rather win 105 games in the regular season and lose in the DS on a couple of weird breaks than be an 84 game winner that wins the Series.

This is fascinating in the fact that there isn’t a single team in baseball that would agree with you. As a fan, I’ll take the World Series. I mean, correct me if I’m wrong (seriously, anyone), but why do they play the games? Who can tell me what the ultimate goal is? I thought it was to win a championship.

I’m sure there were a lot of Giants fans who, after the Super Bowl, kind of sulked in a corner and kicked the ground, muttering, “Yeah, but let’s not forget that the Patriots won more games than us. I think I’ll just go to bed early. I really didn’t want to win this championship.”

The team with the best record gets homefield advantage (except in the WS). So why do all eight teams start October on equal footing?

It almost sounds like you’re disagreeing with yourself here. Home field advantage = an advantage (that’s why they call it that).

I don’t mean to set up a straw man here, but I don’t think I am: By your logic, the Dodgers (division winner) deserve a World Series over the Red Sox (wild card team), even if the wild card team has won 11 more games?

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Oct 9, 2008 11:19 AM EDT to parent up   1 recs

I mean, correct me if I’m wrong (seriously, anyone), but why do they play the games? Who can tell me what the ultimate goal is? I thought it was to win a championship.

This is absolutely true. And I think the disconnect is this: the best team usually DOES have the best chance of winning the championship (although in some cases, the like the Angels and Red Sox this year, the “better” team actually won fewer regular season games).

The playoffs are a crapshoot. But having the best team (with the best Secret Sauce) gives you the best chance of winning in October.

by Peter Bendix on Oct 9, 2008 11:25 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

As Indians fans, our team has been all over the map in terms of regular season performance and then varying degrees of postseason success. Do I regret that the 97 team had a just good enough regular season to then go onto an almost WS title? Not one bit, and I would not trade watching that team for anything. Then we have the 95 and 99 teams, which in my opinion, were the best teams in baseball those respective years. All that really matters in the end is winning the damn thing, and whatever it takes to get me that will be what ultimately satisfies me. I take no comfort in our almost chances aside from the memories of the wins that almost got us there

by Roger Dorn on Oct 9, 2008 11:27 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Don’t forget 1954. I was -14 at the time, so I obviously don’t remember it first-hand.

by FredOx on Oct 9, 2008 1:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

As Mr. Bendix says above:

Besides, who ever said that the postseason was there to determine the best team? It’s not.

Winning a championship is a crap shoot. Roll a seven and you lose.

by odradek on Oct 9, 2008 1:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Winning a championship is a crap shoot.

Settled, then. At the end of the regular season, instead of having a playoff, the team with the best record in baseball is awarded the championship and playoff money is divvied to the next 7 teams based on record. That way nothing unfair will ever happen and the best team will always always win. Won’t that be more fun? Because obviously playoffs are unfair if anyone but the team with the best record wins it all.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Oct 9, 2008 5:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Well said.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Oct 9, 2008 6:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

My apparent self-disagreement is to say we already acknowledge that teams with better records should have an advantage over other teams (we do so by granting them the majority of home games). I’m questioning whether the advantage is sufficient. Is the goal for the postseason to be a random event, where anyone of the eight teams can win? Should all teams come out of the starting gate at relative parity? Or should we force the wildcard team to carry 11 pounds of lead weights?

Regarding your Dodgers question, I guess I would agree with your straw man because I have a fundamental issue with the wild card premise. Scheduling is inherently uneven.

by odradek on Oct 9, 2008 1:53 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

how many posts to we go anymore before “straw man” gets typed. 3-4?

by Brick. on Oct 9, 2008 2:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think the politically correct term is “scarecrow”

by Nat on Oct 9, 2008 5:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Straw man.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Oct 9, 2008 5:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

All the Red Sox deserve is a kick in the collective teeth

by Logodaedalus on Oct 9, 2008 1:57 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The major fault of the playoffs isn’t the wild card, or even the division winner with 85 wins getting into the playoffs.

The problem is the Division Series playoff schedule.

1. It is a best of five. Why? A seven game series would be better, but the powers that be don’t want want a potential Game 7 orf the World Series leaking into November. (Can you imagine us in the World Series last year because we won the LCS 3-1?)

2. In this best of 5 Angels vs Red Sox, the schedule was Wed, Fri, Sun, Mon, Wed. You only need 3 SPs for that round, not 4 (or 3 on short rest). Never during the regular season do you see a seires set up like this.

All of the series should be best of 7, with the format 2-3-2 with one day off between sites. This most closely aligns with the regular season. There are enough channels with sister stations (ESPN, ESPN2; TBS, TNT, etc) that 2 playoff games could be played at the same time, especially in the first round.

It’s not like these playoff games are generating ratings that compare with the NFL anyways. Who is going to care if they are schedules simultaneously? The difference between a 1.4 and 1.1 rating probably wouldn’t make a difference to the advertisers one bit.

by talonk on Oct 9, 2008 11:37 AM EDT   1 recs

Agree completely. They can do four playoff games in one day. And the ratings aren’t like the NFL; most people don’t plan their day around watching LDS games unless your team is playing in it, so the ratings won’t be affected that much. Seven game series with less off days would be much more fair and give the “better” team a greater chance of winning.

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Oct 9, 2008 11:48 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I could get behind this.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Oct 9, 2008 12:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Agree 100%

As with everything in sports, competition will continue to take a back seat to money. Why is there no playoff in college football? Why are there four preseason NFL games?

by NickFantana on Oct 9, 2008 12:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Actually, Goodell wants 2 pre-season games and 18 regular-season games. That IMO is insane.

by Ryan on Oct 9, 2008 1:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Those first two regular season games would be painful to watch. Preseason quality with regular season consequences.

by FredOx on Oct 9, 2008 1:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I’ve not heard confirmation that this is what Goodell wants, only that its what certain owners want.

by NickFantana on Oct 9, 2008 4:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

A very sensible solution. It would favor a deeper team (ie, a team built to succeed in the regular season) and wouldn’t prolong the postseason.

Too bad it won’t fly because of ratings.

by Ryan on Oct 9, 2008 1:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree with this. The days off are still tough: the 2-3-2 with days off between sites would take nine days. Some wiggle room is required for inclement weather, but a tighter schedule would force teams to play. I think if the Indians didn’t have to wait a day between game five and six before going into Fenway last postseason they might have been able to play better in Boston.

A four-playoff day would be like the first day of the NCAA basketball tournament.

by odradek on Oct 9, 2008 2:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

or, perhaps more reasonably, if they hadn’t had to wait a day between games 4 and 5, they might have done better in the last game in Cleveland

by Logodaedalus on Oct 9, 2008 2:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

+1 – agree 100% on this. That off-day between Games 4 and 5 likely did not help, and really, that off-day was quite strange to have. You usually have an off-day to change sites, not when you’re staying at one site to play another game, then have another off-day to accommodate the travel day.

Just my 2 cents.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Oct 9, 2008 6:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

For the record, FOX is having them do it again between Games 4 and 5, with an off-day on Tuesday.

Again, I find it quite strange – I presume it has to do with FOX’s television schedule and the fact they want to start the WS on a Wednesday (though I have to believe they could keep the 2-3-2 format with off-days only between Games 2 & 3 and 5 & 6 and still be able to start the WS on a Wednesday).

Just my 2 cents.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Oct 13, 2008 1:47 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

They must want to keep an open date in case of weather. Otherwise if the games were played daily, there would be no option but to extend the series by a day, which would be a logistic problem.

by odradek on Oct 13, 2008 8:18 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Scheduling it the way they do also minimizes the number of 4:30 games. As it is there are only three, and one is on a Saturday and one today (which is a holiday for some people, including me). So there’s only one day in which you don’t have ready access to an audience. Plus, potential game sevens are on the weekend (Sat and Sun) this way. All about ratings, of course.

by FredOx on Oct 13, 2008 8:28 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hello odradek & FredOx,

Thanks for the info. – I figured ratings was a major factor for this (since it only started in the 2007 postseason).

As for the possibility of weather, if necessary, you could always use the off-day between Games 5 & 6 to make up for a rainout – granted, they’d have to play Games 5 & 6 on consecutive days (and 7 too if the series went that far), but that’s the way it was always played until 2007.

I suspected the ratings were the driving factor behind that. Potential game 7s on Saturday and Sunday are nice, but which is better, having game 7s of the ALCS and NLCS on the weekend or game 7s of the World Series on a weekend night (Sunday – like the 2001 WS between the Yankees and D’Backs)? Personally, I think I’d prefer the possible final game of the season or even a game 6 (of the WS) on a weekend night rather than an ALCS or NLCS game 6 or 7 (though, preferably, I’d like to have all games 6 & 7s on weekend nights, whether it would be LDS, LCS, or WS).

Just my 2 cents.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Oct 13, 2008 9:32 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Whoops – I meant to say Game 7s of LCS or WS only – Games 4 & 5 would be for LDS. I’m not sure that schedule would be possible, but I think it would be more exciting for the end of a series or the end of a baseball season to occur over a weekend, not in the middle of the week like they have now under this new television schedule.

Just my 2 cents. :-)

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Oct 13, 2008 9:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Game 7 will be on a Thursday, so eliminating the LCS off day doesn’t help there. Fox probably likes a Thursday night game anyway, as it’s long been a big TV night (must see TV and all that jazz – remember when Tuesday on ABC was a big TV night,

by FredOx on Oct 14, 2008 12:06 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I was going to add “or am I just old?”

by FredOx on Oct 14, 2008 12:06 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

What shows?

by Jay on Oct 14, 2008 11:06 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Happy Days at 8:00, Laverne & Shirley at 8:30 and Three’s Company at 9:00. That particular lineup ran more or less from 1977-1983 (although Laverne & Shirley were on Thursdays in 1979), with the high point being 1978, when they finished 1-3 in the ratings. There was also Saturday night on ABC, if you were into Love Boat and Fantasy Island (yuck).

by FredOx on Oct 14, 2008 11:38 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I remember that night, I just couldn’t have told you it was on Tuesday. I thought you were talking about NYPD Blue or something. The most complete lineup I can recall was when it used to go Cosby, Family Ties, Cheers, Night Court, Hill Street Blues.

Years after that, they had Friends, Seinfeld and ER on at 8:00, 9:00 and 10:00, but they put a succession of crappy shows on at 8:30 and 9:30. I guess they could afford to do that because the main three shows were all dominated the ratings.

by Jay on Oct 14, 2008 2:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I had forgotten just how bad the bottom of the hours shows were until I looked it up.

by FredOx on Oct 14, 2008 3:11 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah, those were some terrible shows. It’s interesting that some of the new shows they tried in those slots did catch on. Seinfeld spent a couple years after Cheers before moving to the 9:00 spot when Cheers ended, and later The Office was a 9:30 show for while before it moved to Tuesday. So a few of the shows they put there caught on, while most of them faded in to oblivion (or bolivian, as Mike Tyson once famously said).

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Oct 15, 2008 10:54 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hello FredOx,

If I understood your thinking correctly – the NLCS games 3, 4, and 5 are on Sunday, Monday, and Wednesday, with the ALCS games 3, 4, and 5 being on Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday.

Under the “old” schedule, NLCS games 3, 4, and 5 would have been on Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday, with Games 6 and 7 on Thursday and Friday respectively (recall the off-day/travel day between Games 5-6). Likewise, ALCS games 3, 4, and 5 would have been on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, with Games 6 and 7 on Friday and Saturday.

Personally, I’d prefer the WS games 6 and 7 on a weekend – granted, we don’t always have a Game 6 or 7 in a WS, but when you do, I’d think more people would enjoy over it a weekend than they would in the middle of the week. Of course, I’m not privy to ratings and such, so I presume FOX thinks it’s better for their ratings to have it in the middle of the week, but I’d think more people would be able to enjoy it more over a weekend and not in the middle of a work week.

Just my 2 cents.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Oct 15, 2008 10:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Do I remember there being a time when two division series games were played at once? Didn’t that use to happen? Or was there just some spill over from one game to the next?

by odradek on Oct 9, 2008 2:06 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes. In 1995, they played games simultaneously and televised them by region. Because the Indians and the Reds both made the playoffs that year, the Columbus station chose a couple times to show the Reds rather than the Tribe and I remember having to go to a bar which illegally pulled in a feed off their satellite dish. I had to go to five different bars before I found one that had the game.

by woodsmeister on Oct 11, 2008 5:18 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Ideally, I’d do a 7-7-9 format. It’d last forever though, and would never happen. But I know I’d love it.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Oct 9, 2008 2:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I’d dig this format, too. Perhaps allow a larger roster?

by odradek on Oct 9, 2008 3:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Why not? I think it’d be a better test of total team play and would reward depth and talent even moreso than just “being hot.” I mean, flukes can happen, but I generally feel like a 7 game series is a pretty good test of a team’s mettle. If you’re a great team, you should be able to win 4 out of 7 or 5 out of 9 barring some really disastrous luck.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Oct 9, 2008 3:48 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree that 7 is better than 5, but only slightly.

How many times did the Red Sox and Rays go 3-4 in a week during the season? Not to mention the fact that the difference between the “best” and “worst” playoff team is still usually pretty small.

by Peter Bendix on Oct 9, 2008 4:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Fair enough, but 7 games is a pretty fair sample, I think. If you could survive two 7-game series and a nine game series, you’d earn my respect.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Oct 9, 2008 5:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs