A's Acquire Holliday, according to SI
No details whatsoever (as you can see through the link). This doesn't really affect the Indians (I doubt we were interested in Holliday due to our other more pressing needs), but it will be interesting to see what Beane had to give up.
EDIT: ESPN now reporting, with Greg Smith rumored to be one of the players sent to Colorado.
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Really?
I mean, really? I definitely thought they could contend this year but I guess I just didn’t expect this.
I hope they didn’t give up too much pitching. They had a nice little foundation.
Steel Nick
Those were my thoughts. It seems terribly out of character to acquire a one-year rental. My only thought is that there must be a few moves in the pipeline. Even with Holliday, this is a woeful offense.
Maybe Billy Beane thinks one-year rentals are the new soft spot in the market to exploit?
by woodsmeister on Nov 10, 2008 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
Its not out of the question, especially if you"re trading for a type A free agent. I think these types of trades can be useful for teams like Oakland that go from contender to pretender on a routine basis.
I doubt the Indians pursue this strategy anytime soon though. We have just the right amount of depth to maintain a strong system.
by world dictator on Nov 10, 2008 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
What is wrong with you?
I hope they gave up all their pitching, sent it all to the NL.
The A’s are not a cute little team! They are our competition!
by Jay on Nov 10, 2008 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Of course you’re correct. I always think what’s best for the little guy first without thinking about how it affects ME, namely a fan of the Cleveland Indians.
Steel Nick
halloween was a fun night
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Nov 11, 2008 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
rec
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Nov 11, 2008 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
i read that he is (according to MLB.com), thus it does affect the indians. cross that one off the list of possible trades…
One of these days... bang, zoom, straight to the moon...
by mixmasterasia on Nov 10, 2008 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
This deal has implications. It sets an early tone for offseason return. Holliday (whether rightfully so) is regarded as one of the top available hitters, and the package Colorado receives is representative of the top-of-the-market return.
From Oakland’s perspective, I don’t think it’s that bad a move. Holliday is not a Hall of Fame hitter away from Coors field, but honestly, how many guys can match even his deflated statistics? Steroids or better pitching or what have you, there just aren’t .300/.400/.550 hitters to be had. Having a solid .280/.350/.500 is a nice place to be. Consider Oakland’s offense last year, and his addition means that much more.
I hope that this situation isn’t analagous to last winter when we watched the Quentin and Swisher trades pass us by. Not yet knowing what the A’s gave up, if it isn’t a king’s ransom, this is a move that could have made sense for us.
Certainly, we would have given up talent last year for Swisher or Quentin, and we would have had to give up talent for Holliday (or Peavy, et al) but there is a concern creeping that we’re overrating our own players again this offseason, keeping us from making a big deal.
i still don’t buy this completely. i think teams aren’t asking for our lower level stuff. i think they’re asking for the asdrubal’s of the world and that’s what we’re valuing. if shapiro could have gotten haren or quentin or swisher for mills, i’m sure he would of. i don’t think we can just say “hey, they gave up prospect X, who is similar to our prospect Y, so we should have done that.” the quentin deal was for lee, right? not weglarz.
Yahoo is reporting that it’s Huston Street, Carlos Gonzalez, and Greg Smith. If that’s the case…nice work Dan O’Dowd.
That sucks. I was really hoping we would acquire Street rather than sign a high priced free agent.
I wonder if the front office is suprised street went so quickly.
by world dictator on Nov 10, 2008 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Streets intriguing. But he’s only two years away from free agency. He made $3.3M last season. And while he’s been a steady reliever, he’s not really been that much of a closer. He’s converted 78% of his career save opportunities. I’m scared of somebody like Kevin Gregg being acquired, and Gregg converted 76% of his opportunities.
Eric Wedge is right when he says closing is an end-game result. Did you get it done or didn’t you? Now, there’s process to be appreciated as well. I think Huston Street has better stuff than Gregg, is younger, and may be a better bet going forward. But Street was never as dominant as Brad Lidge and won’t be rebounding to some otherworldly level of production. His peripherals are ok, but the guy blows saves. Period.
For comparison’s sake, Bob Wickman converted 89% (139/156) of his save opportunities in Cleveland. Street’s nice. But he’s not a sure thing.
I’m well aware of the statistics that matter. That’s my whole point. Huston Street is known as this great “closer.” He’s not a dominant closer. He’s merely a good reliever who pitches the ninth inning. And good relievers being paid as “great closers” to produce good-reliever-9th-inning-results is not wise.
Then you have Bob Wickman, a lot less sexy alternative, who’ll never get the hype of a Huston Street. Yet Wickman, in all his glory, was a pretty effective reliever.
Sportsline is reporting that the Rockies are likely to turn around & flip Street to someone, though they don’t give much more detail than that.
DISCLAIMER: I may be bitter.
i think that would even more maximize their return and a really smart thing to do.
by Brick. on Nov 10, 2008 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i there’s a verb missing somewhere in there.
by Brick. on Nov 10, 2008 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I can see the speculation now. Atkins and Street to the Indians.
Except the Rockies will want someome like Wegz and Huff so Shapiro will say “umm no”
by world dictator on Nov 10, 2008 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
I was thinking when I saw this that the Rockies wanted Street so they could flip Fuentes.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Nov 10, 2008 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
Um, yeah. My bad. I forgot Fuentes was FA. In my defense, I really don’t follow the Rockies very closely.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Nov 11, 2008 2:34 AM EST up reply actions
Colorado did very well for a rental if Yahoo is correct. And Oakland keeps Anderson.
But still Colorado wins.
Steel Nick
This comment reminds me of that investment commercial where the guy wins his bid for a painting and then asks the auctioneer to sell it right now.
If Beane’s strategy is to collect prospects in exchange for Street and/or Holliday, it’s that he believes they will fetch much more at the trading deadline than what he is giving up during the offseason. Maybe that’s his perceived soft spot in the market. It seems like a plausible angle doesn’t it?
Yeah, but it’s an either/or situation. Part of Holliday’s value is that he can be flipped at the deadline if the A’s aren’t in it. That doesn’t mean that Beane intends to do that, but it’s only natural that that would be considered.
The trick here is that the A’s don’t just have to be out of the race, they have to know that they’re out of the race. But Beane is one of the very best at facing this reality. In a way, Shapiro has never been tested on that, because it’s never been a close call.
How does this affect our ability to trade Grady to Oakland?
by FredOx on Nov 10, 2008 4:21 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
With Holliday available to hit 3rd, Oakland would be forced to use Grady Sizemore in the leadoff spot. Knowing this, I think Oakland refuses to take on Grady, even if Cleveland is prepared to give him away.
by xrickx on Nov 10, 2008 4:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think this move says a lot about how the A’s view the Angels. I’m guessing the A’s don’t view the Angels as a 100 win team, and rightfully so. According to BPro’s third-order standings, they were an 84 win team. Also, the Angels may lose Texiera and K-Rod as both figure to be highly sought after. Torii and Vlad are entering their age 33 seasons. Saunders and Santana aren’t likely to match this season’s production. Howie Kendrick and Mike Napoli are unreliable in the health department. I think there are some serious question marks, thus creating a chance for both the A’s and the Rangers to compete next year.
indeed, but the A’s just lost their closer too.
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
wasn’t Street the closer when healthy? or am I living in 2006/07?
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
To start the year, yes. At the end of the year, he got hot again, but I recall some frustration that he wasn’t immediately restored to “closer” status.
Yes, Ziegler’s the guy as of the end of the season and now without a doubt. I also like Santiago Casilla.
Steel Nick
REC THE HELL OUT OF CASILLA
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Nov 11, 2008 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m out of the “predict the rest of the division” business after last season. I was betyerass sure that the ChiSox had a 90% chance of going bust in 2008. I may have been right, but fat lot of good it did me, because they shot that 10% gap.
Frankly, I’m beginning to believe that Shaponetti don’t even believe in off-seasons any more. From a roster management perspective, what’s so magical about making your deals before Opening Day, anyway?
by fleerdon on Nov 10, 2008 8:16 PM EST up reply actions
The main magical things are (1) teams need to commit to players for full seasons, so that this is the only time of year when trade options mingle with free agent options, and (2) the sheer length of the offseason makes it a lot easier to restructure your roster in substantial ways, through a series of moves.
That’s a helpful answer to a needlessly rhetorical question. But I am fomenting a “trade deadline is the new off-season” idea nonetheless.
by fleerdon on Nov 10, 2008 9:21 PM EST up reply actions
I’m down with that, I’m just laying out what you’ve got to work with to make that argument. So the counter argument is (1) free agent options suck anyway, so they’re not that much of a factor, (2) rosters can be radically remade mid-season as long as the organizational fortitude is there, and (3) radical remakes are rarely successful in either case anyway. The Indians don’t chase too many free agents, do have organizational fortitude, and aren’t given to radical moves, preferring to carry out a consistent strategy over a long period of time.
Definitely the track I was laying down.
Also, of course, that they place so much emphasis on data, and you’ve got another 3 or 4 months of it. The guys the Indians tend to move often have higher value depending on who is and is not in contention. I’m thinking of Luis Perdomo getting Anthony Reyes, who even at his least appealing wasn’t exactly Wooly Bryan Bullington. Or Max Ramirez playing well enough to net a half season of a serviceable outfielder. In the off-season, everybody seems to want the known quantities — thanks for the affirmation, Baltimore, but we knew Asdrubal was good — and then in July they’ll take 24-year-olds in high-A.
by fleerdon on Nov 11, 2008 6:14 AM EST up reply actions
add Jason Giambi and Holliday to the lineup and they may be think of a run at the west this year.
Fan in Texas
Nationals acquire OF Josh Willingham and LHP Scott Olson from the Marlins for 2B Emelio Bonafacio and two prospects.
Bonafacio’s a burner. A bit light with the bat, but the kid has wheels. Dan Uggla on the move?
Hmm… Bonafacio was the only good thing the Nots had going for them. Interesting to see how Olson will play out.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Nov 10, 2008 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
at least he went to a place that he can’t double the crime rate of.
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
by westbrook on Nov 10, 2008 10:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Funny you should mention this. I’ve never been one to stress out about crime, but I wonder if I badly underestimated DC crime when I moved into my new place last week. There was a murder on my block on Thursday, and a drive by shooting a couple blocks north of me on Saturday.
As indiansfan says, it might just be a small sample size.
Part of me wants to be excited about the Nats—to make them my other team—but these things can’t be forced.
Also, Trevor Hoffman can’t agree with the Padres on a contract. Second time’s a charm?
Hoffman’s restricted to a light workload, and he’s 41. The H/IP, BB/K rate, K/IP, and BB/IP stats are still decent. The only reservation aside from his light workload is the fact that he gave up eight homeruns last year. Lefties touched him up pretty well last year, too. He threw well after the All-Star break, but that was only over 17 innings. Needless to say, the Pads didn’t present too many save opportunities last year.
How would he fare in the AL Central? I’m not sure, but I’d be all for a one-year commitment to Hoffman at a reasonable rate if it meant Jensen Lewis and Rafael Perez were free to pitch the more critical 7th and 8th innings.
i wouldn’t want Hoffman being used in any situation where the game is on the line. and i think some other team will want him as more than a long-reliever.
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
Hoffman’s a guy who lives off his changeup, perhaps the best in the game. It’s not necessarily a trick pitch, but I wonder if he could be successful going around the AL one time?
Also, who is looking at Hoffman as a long man? He’s had seasons, pre-PETCO, in which he’s given up a few bombs. If 2008 wasn’t his downward spiral (his peripherals aside from the HR don’t look that bad), he’ll save 30 games for some team next year. Let me put it this way…Trevor Hoffman will be a better pitcher than Kevin Gregg in 2009. If that’s your preferred alternative, you love Joe Borowski more than you let on.
hell no I don’t want Gregg. I want Jensen Lewis if it comes down to him, Hoffman or Gregg.
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
It’s not that I don’t like Jensen Lewis. In fact, it’s that I like Lewis so much that I’d rather him pitch when the tying man on second base in the 7th inning with one out than him protect a two run lead in the ninth inning. It comes down to what you want in your closer, and Eric Wedge, for all the grief I give him, has beautifully managed his bullpen in the sense that he’s letting his most valuable pitchers pitch in the most critical junctures of the game. Often times, that juncture is not in the ninth inning.
Maybe I overestimate Jensen Lewis in thinking that he’s more than a middle reliever or setup man. If Lewis is as lights out as I want him to be, he should be pitching with the game on the line rather than racking up an arbitrary counting stat we call a “save.” If Lewis is actually a weaker pitcher than I suspect, then by all accounts he should be left in the closers roll, leaving the heavy lifting to the other pitchers.
That would more accurately by known as the closer’s “role,” but food apparently won this battle.
by xrickx on Nov 11, 2008 9:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Why would you sign him as a long reliever? More importantly why wouldn’t you give him a chance to close?
At worst, Hoffman provides a valuable mentor to the bullpen and our future closer.
I’d say that’s worth the $4 million allone.
by world dictator on Nov 10, 2008 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
hoffman. thats all
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Nov 11, 2008 3:05 PM EST reply actions
Joe Sheenan doesn’t like this trade at all for the Rockies.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
Sorry, I meant Sheehan.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 13, 2008 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
Ah, the flukey HR/FB rate.
2004 – 11.5%
2005 – 8.0
2006 – 9.4
2007 – 4.7
2008 – 12.2
Gee, can anyone guess which Indians reliever that is?
Wow, you just beat me. The black comment box popped up just as I was hitting enter.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 13, 2008 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Can I get Raffy Betancourt for $400, Alex?
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Nov 13, 2008 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
I missed the % sign initially — I was thinking, “who gave up 12.2 home runs per fly ball this season?”
by Logodaedalus on Nov 13, 2008 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
even worse than that one time when westbrook (the LGT poster, not the Tribe pitcher) gave up 8 home runs on 6 pitches (or something like that)…
by Logodaedalus on Nov 13, 2008 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
I know we’ve mentioned Kevin Gregg in here, so I thought it would be as good a place as any to point out that he seems to be a Cub now.
Steel Nick
This will probably be fanshotted, but Ceda was one of the guys in a rumored Peavy deal. Perhaps this mean the Braves have it wrapped up
it needs to be fanshotted. this is too remote a place for people to complain that we didn’t acquire either ceda or gregg for our equivalents of ceda and gregg.
by Brick. on Nov 13, 2008 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
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