With Lee and Sizemore, Indians aren't far from contention

Another national writer makes his feelings known about the Tribe.

While I agree we aren't far off, a few of his comments were off-base.

"A year ago at this time, Indians general manager Mark Shapiro made a significant strategic error by deciding not to tinker with a club that fell one win short of reaching the World Series. The Indians' 2008 showing served as a reminder to every general manager that if you are just standing still with your club, others are shooting past you."

Well, name another team that lost 2/5 of their rotation and their 3/4 hitters all at about the same time and see if that team finishes at .500 a the end of the season

"Balls that should have been caught went through the gaps. Sizemore earned his Gold Glove the hard way, by having to range nearly from foul line to foul line. "

Gee, I didn't know Gutierrez just stood still in RF.

Anyways, thought I'd pass it along ....

7 months ago talonk Comment 93 comments 0 recs |

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Comments

think it may be a writer that’s never watched a Indians game last year?

Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Nov 12, 2008 8:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Hey, general platitudes are sometimes accurate, right?

by Ryan on Nov 12, 2008 8:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

by Toxicadam on Nov 12, 2008 8:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I’m saving this to the HD, so I can use it to reply to people that say dumb things.

by Toxicadam on Nov 12, 2008 9:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Nov 12, 2008 9:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

how do you save posts in high-def?

by Brick. on Nov 12, 2008 9:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He doesn’t mention what I’m considering (at least right now) to be the most important factor to a good 2009: Fausto Carmona.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Nov 12, 2008 9:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

concur.

by Brick. on Nov 12, 2008 9:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i’m the only one who doesn’t think cliff lee is going to be any good this year, right?

Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.

by Gradyforpresident on Nov 12, 2008 9:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think he’s going to be anywhere near as good, but I think that’s different. Still good.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Nov 12, 2008 9:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I declared he was going to have a bad year in 2008 while watching him in spring training.

Since I was spot on with that prediction, I’m going to agree. Cliff Lee is going to have an even worse 2009.

by PatBordersHelmet on Nov 13, 2008 8:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yes

by Cap'n Snegiryov on Nov 12, 2008 9:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m on the fence. Cautiously pessimistic.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Nov 13, 2008 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I have to ask because I just don’t know, and you gents (and ladies) know more than I. Has there ever been a pitcher who has gone through a career like Lee’s career thus far? View from prospect, to emergence, to floundering, to Cy candidate. And if so, what happened next?

proverbial "moron in a hurry"

by 94neverout on Nov 13, 2008 8:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Chris Carpenter?

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Nov 13, 2008 10:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sproing.

Don't be stupid. PUT IN MELOAN.

by gte619n on Nov 13, 2008 12:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Eh?

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Nov 13, 2008 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That’s the sounds an elbow makes when it need TJ

Don't be stupid. PUT IN MELOAN.

by gte619n on Nov 13, 2008 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No, you’re thinking of “Ca-ching!”

/Dr. Andrews

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Nov 13, 2008 6:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I can honestly say that was one of the worst baseball articles I’ve ever read in my life.

I appreciate the mainstream media love though.

But still. That was a godawful article.

I do however, agree that we could use another high average, high obp guy. Though I suspect, and hope, Brantley will fill that role.

by world dictator on Nov 12, 2008 9:32 PM EST reply actions 2 recs

I see Brantley as still very raw. I’m not expecting him necessarily even to make an appearance this season.

by Jay on Nov 13, 2008 1:29 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

I didn’t mean to imply that Brantley would play in Cleveland this year. I suppose I conflated the two problems.

I’d like a high average, high OBP guy on our roster next year, but I also think its a position of weakness within the organization.

by world dictator on Nov 13, 2008 9:11 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

We should just sign Milton Bradley.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Nov 13, 2008 10:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I can’t see it as a position of weakness within the organization, because players like that actually are very rare.

I mean, seriously, name four.

by Jay on Nov 13, 2008 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

mauer, pujols. yeah, i’m done without looking.

by Brick. on Nov 13, 2008 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

chipper?

by Brick. on Nov 13, 2008 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wright? Holliday, splits notwithstanding?

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Nov 13, 2008 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Okay, you guys are all talking about power hitters. If Brantley were a power hitter, we couldn’t have gotten him.

I’m talking about guys who are not power hitters — and don’t require power-hitter wages — but who still manage to hit for high average and draw lots of walks. They are quite rare.

by Jay on Nov 13, 2008 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ah. I was just throwing names out there.

Ichiro and drawing blanks. But now I see they also have to draw walks, too, and dammit man that’s just tough.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Nov 13, 2008 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i feel like mauer isn’t a “power hitter” like the other guys here. but i don’t know how much he walks. i don’t think a lot.

Brian Giles? Ichiro? Chone Figgins or Garrett Anderson?

by Brick. on Nov 13, 2008 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Okay, and then a lot of those guys are power hitters who’ve lost their power. Anyone under 35?

by Jay on Nov 13, 2008 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Markakis?

by Brick. on Nov 13, 2008 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

speaking of the orioles, not sure if Roberts is over 35. still trying not to look.

by Brick. on Nov 13, 2008 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You’re doing yeoman’s work over there, Brick.

by Jay on Nov 13, 2008 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

thinking of that, if they’re out there, they’re probably leadoff hitters.

is jose reyes a power hitter? i think his average is good, but have no idea if he walks a lot.

figgins agian comes to mind.

what about some of those dodgers guys? kemp/eithier…

mike young. again, don’t think of him as a walker.

i think i’m tapped.

by Brick. on Nov 13, 2008 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

www.baseball-reference.com

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Nov 13, 2008 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

that’s no fun.

by Brick. on Nov 13, 2008 1:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Markakis hits for power plenty enough, and he’s at least trending upwards towards it.

I don’t think Figgins has proven to be a high-OBP guy.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Nov 13, 2008 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nick Weglarz’s 2008.

Ah, damn, the high average part.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Nov 13, 2008 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ricky Henderson

by Roger Dorn on Nov 13, 2008 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought we were limited to current.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Nov 13, 2008 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I was under the assumption that Rickey Henderson still hasn’t retired and is playing in some sort of Independent league

by Roger Dorn on Nov 13, 2008 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think 2007 was his last year. He’s a coach in the indy leagues now if I’m not mistaken.

by Voltaire on Nov 13, 2008 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Off the top of my head: Mike Hargrove, Mark Grace -

Resident LGT beer kinda sewer

by mauichuck on Nov 13, 2008 3:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Right. That’s two for the last 30 years.

If I asked everyone to name slap-hitters with no secondary skills, we could have a list of 20 pretty quickly.

Power hitters who strike out a lot? Easy.

Power hitters who draw a ton of walks? Plenty.

All-around great hitters? Several.

But high average with even higher OBP? Quite rare.

by Jay on Nov 13, 2008 8:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think there are too many guys with OBP lower than their average…

by Logodaedalus on Nov 13, 2008 8:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Obtuse is a terrible cologne.

by Jay on Nov 13, 2008 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

you asayin’ I’m not acute?

by Logodaedalus on Nov 14, 2008 12:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’ve seen acuter.

by Jay on Nov 15, 2008 12:57 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wade Boggs if he hasn’t been said.

by cheech99 on Nov 13, 2008 11:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually I took a look at the ’76 rosters and found a few more. Pete Rose, Rod Carew, Alex Johnson, Ron LeFlore, and Lou Brock. They were out there – just not too many of them.

I think you’re gonna see a resurgence in the contact hitter who draws a lot of walks. Just like you’re gonna see a steep decline in power numbers – of course we’re seeing that all ready. But just as the game changed radically in the late 80’s and early 90’s I think it’s about to change again.

Resident LGT beer kinda sewer

by mauichuck on Nov 14, 2008 12:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

In part, yes — I agree we’re going to see the clock turn back on some playing styles.

Having said that, the core point I’m trying to make here is that it’s a rare skill set, period, and always has been. It isn’t as easy to be a pure contact hitter as it used to be, and raw power is probably emphasized too much in terms of signing bonuses, free agency and arbitration. Even aside from that, raw power and patience generally go together like peas and carrots — there are, in fact, only a few serious sluggers that don’t have good patience, too, guys like Vlad.

Bottom line, pure contact hitting is a rare skill, many of the few who have it aren’t inclined to be patient, those who are patient often end up with big power numbers, and those who don’t often have trouble hitting well enough to stick in the majors. So really good contact hitting and drawing a lot of walks, without a lot of power, is simply rare.

by Jay on Nov 15, 2008 1:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Russ f-in’ Branyan.

/NickFantana

Don't be stupid. PUT IN MELOAN.

by gte619n on Nov 13, 2008 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks man, I was 23 minutes late on that one.

by NickFantana on Nov 13, 2008 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Chase Utley, depending on your definition of high average.

by Ryan on Nov 13, 2008 12:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I can honestly say that was one of the worst baseball articles I’ve ever read in my life.

I appreciate the mainstream media love though.

But still. That was a godawful article.

I do however, agree that we could use another high average, high obp guy. Though I suspect, and hope, Brantley will fill that role.

by world dictator on Nov 12, 2008 9:32 PM EST reply actions 2 recs

I see Brantley as still very raw. I’m not expecting him necessarily even to make an appearance this season.

by Jay on Nov 13, 2008 1:29 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs

I didn’t mean to imply that Brantley would play in Cleveland this year. I suppose I conflated the two problems.

I’d like a high average, high OBP guy on our roster next year, but I also think its a position of weakness within the organization.

by world dictator on Nov 13, 2008 8:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

by Brick. on Nov 13, 2008 9:56 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs

I can honestly say that was one of the worst baseball articles I’ve ever read in my life.

I appreciate the mainstream media love though.

But still. That was a godawful article.

I do however, agree that we could use another high average, high obp guy. Though I suspect, and hope, Brantley will fill that role.

by world dictator on Nov 12, 2008 9:32 PM EST reply actions 2 recs

I see Brantley as still very raw. I’m not expecting him necessarily even to make an appearance this season.

by Jay on Nov 13, 2008 1:29 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs

I didn’t mean to imply that Brantley would play in Cleveland this year. I suppose I conflated the two problems.

I’d like a high average, high OBP guy on our roster next year, but I also think its a position of weakness within the organization.

by world dictator on Nov 13, 2008 8:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

by Brick. on Nov 13, 2008 9:57 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs

I can honestly say that was one of the worst baseball articles I’ve ever read in my life.

I appreciate the mainstream media love though.

But still. That was a godawful article.

I do however, agree that we could use another high average, high obp guy. Though I suspect, and hope, Brantley will fill that role.

by world dictator on Nov 12, 2008 9:32 PM EST reply actions 4 recs

You musta really hated that article wd.

Resident LGT beer kinda sewer

by mauichuck on Nov 12, 2008 11:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I see Brantley as still very raw. I’m not expecting him necessarily even to make an appearance this season.

by Jay on Nov 13, 2008 1:29 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs

Umm I have no idea how that posted so many times. Feel free to delete excess posts.

Sorry

by world dictator on Nov 12, 2008 9:33 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Tell us how you really feel, WD.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Nov 12, 2008 9:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

incredible

Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.

by Gradyforpresident on Nov 12, 2008 9:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

it really peaks my interest.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Nov 12, 2008 11:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think there was a glitch in the Matrix. Look out.

"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter

by Denver Tribe Fan on Nov 13, 2008 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The weirdest part is that the replies all showed up multiple times too….but not identically…. Matrix glitch is really the only plausible explanation.

by Logodaedalus on Nov 13, 2008 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I can’t tell if you’re being facetious.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Nov 13, 2008 11:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Neither can I any more

by Logodaedalus on Nov 13, 2008 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It’s articles like this that make me cling to the hope that I can succeed as a sportswriter.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Nov 13, 2008 12:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

It’s articles like this that make me wonder if anybody will still be able to read by the time you achieve that status.

by fleerdon on Nov 13, 2008 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Idiocracy, right?

I swear, it’s not a good movie, but then why do I keep thinking of it?

by Jay on Nov 13, 2008 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The jokes are bad and the story line is worse, but the social commentary cuts deep and resonates daily as you are confronted with the prophetic nature of the film.

I broke down and bought it. The fart and ballshot jokes don’t get any better, but this way I own the film and it doesn’t completely own me.

by PatBordersHelmet on Nov 13, 2008 11:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

One of the best things is how they go out of their way to make Luke Wilson a totally “regular guy,” who talks almost excessively like a “regular guy” — and then everyone ridicules him for sounding too intellectual and effete. Makes an interesting point, that when you start dumbing down the way you talk to “fit in,” well, how dumb is dumb enough?

by Jay on Nov 13, 2008 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I figure as long as you’re not being nerdy just for the sake of nerdiness, then you’re okay.

by Logodaedalus on Nov 13, 2008 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You know, I very nearly added “, like George Will, or Logodaedalus” after the word “effete,” but then I thought, no, that’s just mean.

by Jay on Nov 13, 2008 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nice quasi-apophasis there.

/case in point

by Logodaedalus on Nov 13, 2008 8:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well executed.

by Jay on Nov 13, 2008 9:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

More of a paralipsis than an apophasis, quasi- or otherwise, isn’t it?

by FredOx on Nov 14, 2008 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would say that I am unable to ascertain a connotative distinction between the two, but I fear that my nerdly credentials could be tarnished…

(In any case, it’s a great concept to have one word for, let alone two)

by Logodaedalus on Nov 14, 2008 11:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You two really need to go off and find your own blog to do this own. Frankly, it’s disgusting.

by Jay on Nov 15, 2008 1:02 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Rebarbative, indeed!

by peter m on Nov 15, 2008 11:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Seconded.

by NickFantana on Nov 15, 2008 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed. You’ll see no more of this from me. I

by FredOx on Nov 17, 2008 11:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It’s a better short story. Probably would have made a better short film.

by NickFantana on Nov 13, 2008 12:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The first 15 minutes are so funny I had to watch them again to make sure I wasn’t kidding myself. The rest of it gets by on visual panache and quotability.

“What’re you objectifyin’ on?”

I’ve heard it described as Beavis and Butthead fully realized, and that’s probably the mindset you’ve got to be in to enjoy it.

by fleerdon on Nov 13, 2008 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And by “visual panache” I just mean all the crap that’s going on in the background, like the pontoon boats on the Reflecting Pool. I like it for the mise en scene.

by fleerdon on Nov 13, 2008 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs