NY Post: Sabathia Picks Yanks
Sabathia turns to the dark side...
about 3 years ago
danvail
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I refuse to believe it until I see an official announcement.
But if this must come to pass, I’m rooting for an unprecedented and absolutely catastrophic two-year, 5-plus-ERA flameout, followed by a trade to San Francisco, where the big guy can recover his mojo and enjoy a long and illustrious career without ever vexing me or striking out Grady Sizemore. Or playing in a World Series.
The only good Yankee is a Yankee who is failing miserably at the game of baseball.
by still ill on Dec 10, 2008 7:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, the Post is the opposite of official. It’s amazing that with all the newspapers falling by the wayside the Post is standing strong despite being full of rumors and uncredited information—which is pretty much like the internet. Oh wait…I think I’m getting it now.
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 10, 2008 8:36 AM EST up reply actions
I’m not saying it’s not true, just that I plan to maintain my denial until I absolutely have to give it up.
I’m still hoping that Colletti reads this headline in the paper this morning, spits out his oatmeal, tightens the belt on his bathrobe, and gets on the phone to CC’s agent LIKE NOW.
That story was written as Cashman flew back to the west coast by CC’s request. Sherman was speculating and the headline writer made it sound certain.
CC to NY was inevitable, but linking to the NY Post is the equivalent of linking to MLBTR.
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 10, 2008 9:07 AM EST up reply actions
Don’t knock the Post. Back in 2004 they scooped everybody with the story that Kerry had picked Gephardt as his running mate.
And no, not that Kerry……….
The National Enquirer scooped everybody when they uncovered the John Edwards affair (he’d be a member of the incoming administration otherwise) but I’m not gonna start getting my news from that source.
That’s the “throw enough s#!t at the wall and eventually something will stick” journalism I just don’t have time for.
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 10, 2008 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
Especially ironic since he replied with a comment about John Edwards…
by Logodaedalus on Dec 10, 2008 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
You could put MLBTR in the headline of a link too. Would that make it OK?
This isn’t a race. This looks like it’s becoming the “CC to NYY thread”, but based on your source, it could have gone a different direction and been another “Jack Wilson to the Tigers/Furcal to the A’s thread.”
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 10, 2008 9:34 AM EST up reply actions
Well, lesson learned. I simply had no idea the NY post was a rag. I included the source in case it turned out to be bad source, but after waking up to that news I wanted to discuss it.
I mean, they got the story right, right? I don’t think the Post is so much disreputable as just kinda lowbrow. It was their scoop.
DANVAIL DID NOTHING WRONG
bright side of CC going to the Yanks would be that we can still watch him beat up on our AL opponents (admittedly a weak bright side)
CC is a good guy and I’m happy for his wallet and family. I’ll root like hell against him, of course, but he’s earned his haul.
The real bright side is this: A hard-working player will dominate the league, win the Cy Young, and then watch in horror as Shin-Soo clears the bases for his second first-inning double in Game 7 of the ALCS, putting us ahead 9-0 and leaving the Big Bath to wonder why he can’t get his head together for the postseason.
Agreed on the first paragraph. Should I be in attendance for his return to Cleveland (assuming with 80% probability he gets a start), I’ll give him a standing ovation when announced. After that, nothing but cheers for the Tribe.
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
by rolub on Dec 10, 2008 9:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, there’s no question here. You stand a cheer for CC. That’s the classy thing to do.
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 10, 2008 9:36 AM EST up reply actions
Yep, he becomes a yankee, Thome’s off the hook.
by Brick. on Dec 10, 2008 10:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, this will solve the question of the playoffs: Was it us, or was it CC? (Answer: Casey Blake.)
by fleerdon on Dec 10, 2008 9:08 AM EST up reply actions
April 16th: C.C. Sabathia opens the new Yankee Stadium against the Cleveland Indians. Anybody plan on watching? :)
Also, I’d like to take this opportunity to remind the world that no team that has employed C.C. Sabathia has ever won the World Series. Here’s to hoping tradition remains in tact.
Where is E5 when we need him? (Would he bemoaning the lack of spending by Cleveland management or the poor physical condition of CC?)
Is it wrong to expect CC won’t get past 30 without his knees blowing out?
Well, after 2003 I vowed to avoid spending any money in NYC. I had started to relax that commitment, but it looks like I will boycott the Big Apple once again.
Yankees and Red Sox - MLB's Axis of Evil
(And ESPN is right in the middle)
Is it wrong to expect CC won’t get past 30 without his knees blowing out?
Maybe in a karmic sense it may be wrong to expect it, but knowing what you know about CC, not necessarily. I expect CC to be on the DL at least 20% of the next six years. That’s where playing in NY becomes a problem. The media and fans aren’t really tolerant of big money hired guns taking any downtime. CC is going to grow thicker skin than he’s displayed so far. I also expect CC to challenge for the Cy Young again in the next couple of years.
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 10, 2008 9:20 AM EST up reply actions
20% is rather “optimistic”, yes? He has been a reliable innings hog through much of his career. He’s not like Carl Pavano who came to NYY with an injury history. But for CC, if not the knees, then the back… I suppose.
He has led a sheltered life until now. Cleveland fans might give a guy a hard time on the field, but once the player steps outside the white lines, his life is his own. That is not the case in NYC. And he has a history of getting rattled/not pitching within himself when things get down. Do you really think he will grow a thicker skin?
Yankees and Red Sox - MLB's Axis of Evil
(And ESPN is right in the middle)
A reliable innings hog for much of his career? No. He reached 200 innings once in his first six seasons.
He certainly has made up for that over the last two years, but, well, we’ll see where that leads.
I get the feeling that you are not optimistic about CC’s health next year. Seriously though – if I were a Yankee fan, I might feel a little sick to my stomach right now. 160 mil on a guy who threw 500 innings in the last two seasons? No thanks. Although, maybe if I grew up without worrying about bad contracts, I could care less.
Hello Jay,
We discussed this before, and you’re correct about him reaching 200 IP once in his first six years, but again, it’s not like he was THAT far off from reaching 200 IP:
2001: 180.1 IP
2002: 210.0 IP
2003: 197.2 IP (that’s just 2.1 IP – 7 outs – from 200 IP)
2004: 188.0 IP
2005 : 196.2 IP (that’s just 3.1 IP – 10 outs – from 200 IP; he also threw 9.0 IP in 2 rehab starts for Akron, so he actually did throw over 200 IP, technically speaking :-)
2006: 192.2 IP (that’s just 7.1 IP – 22 outs – from 200 IP)
2007: 241.0 IP
2008: 253.0 IP
My main point is that your comment about “200 innings once in his first six seasons” makes it sound like he only threw 130 or 150 IP (i.e. he wasn’t close to 200 IP), but the fact was, he was within a quality start or less of breaking 200 IP in 3 other seasons, and broke 180 IP in 2 other seasons, so he was hardly one who broke down or didn’t take the ball either.
Granted, he wasn’t the 220-250 IP workhorse of the past two seasons, but I don’t think “reliable innings hog” is that egregious a statement, especially for a young pitcher such as him when he threw that number of innings. Sometimes, I think we put too much “stock” into that magical 200 IP number, when really, is there that much difference between 200 IP and 190 IP? Not really, in my opinion. I could see it if he had put up a few seasons where he only threw 130-160 IP, but CC has none of that in his track record.
This is not to imply that he couldn’t break down in the coming years, but just to illustrate that he was pretty reliable as an innings eater even in his young career, even if he only reached that “200 IP” threshold once in his first 6 seasons.
Just my 2 cents – no offense.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
I just love it. Really. After all that homegrown talk last off-season went to hell, the Yankees come back with plans to sign two of the three most expensive starters this offseason (Lowe being the other), including the most expensive contract ever given to a pitcher. Way to stick to your guns, New York.
by fleerdon on Dec 10, 2008 9:11 AM EST reply actions
No. Do you realize how bad the Yankees were last season? Do you think one world-beating pitcher — who might actually be one of the rare un-clutch players in the league — is going to fix all of their problems? And do you think that over-paying for Derek Lowe and AJ Burnett is going to give them all rings?
Sure, they’ll find a way to sneak back into the playoffs. So will we. And I’ll just take my chances with a balls-out, no fear smoke throwing badass than the guy who tries to be a badass but ends up looking like a fatass when it counts. See ya CC.
I guess I’m a little more emotionally attached to CC than to Wood, who I specifically liked for the first time… just yesterday.
I think Wood for 2 years at <$10M per is a much better signing than Sabathia for 7 years at $160M. I think there’s a very good chance the Tribe is better than the Yankees this year, or even maybe for most of the next seven years. But I don’t care about that right now, because my favorite player just turned into a Yankee.
This is sports. It’s not about logic.
root for the laundry, and this never happens.
by Brick. on Dec 10, 2008 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Are you telling me you don’t root for Grady Sizemore—the human, not just the Indian—at least a little bit?
Also! Victor Martinez.
I think teams and fans have to make their economic decisions based on the laundry, but you’re not a sports fan if you don’t have some feelings about the people inside those athlete costumes.
yep, and I’m obsessed with Fausto and Asdrubal. But if they leave, they leave and I focus on the current Indians. It’s why I can leave the 90’s Indians in the 90’s.
In other news, I’m not still in love with any of my ex-girlfriends.
In other news, I’m not still in love with any of my ex-girlfriends.
…
I’m obviously not that well-adjusted.
It’s funny, for both girls and baseball players the solution is go get more of them. Pining after old flames, like pining after old baseball teams, is an act of vanity and laziness. One day you wake up sober and think, I don’t want her back, I just want to feel the way I did before without putting in all the work to dress myself up for the scene and meet somebody new.
Of course, to get over baseball players all you have to do is plunk your ass down in front of the ballgame with a Coke and accept that they get older at the rate of 365 days per year like the rest of us. You don’t even have to shave, or mop your floor, or pass on that T. Rex box set so you can afford dinner that weekend.
God damn. What a game.
by fleerdon on Dec 10, 2008 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Pining after old flames, like pining after old baseball teams, is an act of vanity and laziness.
… #4 and #37, respectively, on my very very long personal list of “acts of vanity and laziness.”
This thread is making me feel kinda bad about myself.
Pitchers and catchers report in 57 days, my man. Gear up.
by fleerdon on Dec 10, 2008 6:05 PM EST up reply actions
i’m in the midst of pining after old flames
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Dec 10, 2008 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
On how bad the Yankees were last year -
Not really that bad. Still pretty good. It’s hard to throw all that talent (even old overpriced talent) at the wall and not have some stick.
by dgcambridge on Dec 10, 2008 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Not for me. I went in to the off season expecting something like this from CC.
I did not anticipate out actually signing Wood.
Its all about expectations and mine have been exceeded in the FA realm so far.
Back in the pile everybody.
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Dec 10, 2008 9:30 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
HAHA — love it!
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 10, 2008 9:48 AM EST up reply actions
Effective immediately: I no longer like CC Sabathia. He is dead to me.
-Erik
by drerikbrady on Dec 10, 2008 9:19 AM EST reply actions 7 recs
Yeah, I’m not trying to be evil, and I’m definitely not happy about this. But it was destined years ago.

by oxforddave on Dec 10, 2008 9:40 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Why do you need to go there? We don’t need more hating of LeBron on this site. He’s the best athlete in Cleveland, possibly ever, so let’s just enjoy and appreciate him.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 10, 2008 9:49 AM EST up reply actions
LeBron is going nowhere. Why would he go to a rebuilding project when he has a team that is crushing his opponents? He also gets to live at home. He can go to the coasts when he wants to. Do you think people in China or Europe care about the difference between NY and Cleveland?
LeBron is a Yankees fan. Yeah that sucks. He also is a Cowboys fan. He grew up without a dad, he just took the teams that the media fed him. I could care less. But as long as he as a Cavalier he can root for whoever he wants to.
Why?
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
(Nike money. InBev money, car company money, taco chain money)
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 10, 2008 10:10 AM EST up reply actions
Not sure about the others, but the Nike “bonus” is bogus, and Rovell seems to think there’s no significant incremental value of Lebron being in New York.
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
I regret posting that, but part of LeBron’s masterplan is the further advancement of his media group promotional company whatever thing MMR. New York is a better HQ for him than his current home in Akron. The kid’s got big plans and Cleveland isn’t part of the long-term. Hopefully he stays a Cav, but in the end this a baseball blog so I’ll shut up.
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 10, 2008 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
I really don’t get all this LeBron will be bigger in NY talk. He’s already one of the 2 most popular players in the NBA. LeBron’s (and the NBA’s goal) is to sell jerseys all over the world, not just the USA. Do you really think he’ll sell more jerseys in China or Europe if he’s in NY? That’s where the future of NBA marketing is.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 10, 2008 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
I missed that dave said mostly the same things. I agree completely with everything he said. LeBron constantly mentions his love for Ohio and being close to home, yet the media never talks about that.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 10, 2008 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Let’s not get into this. I’m not accusing either of you of starting anything. But let’s just not.
Steel Nick
Agree 100%. Kerry Wood will be a free agent in two years (or three), we’re not freaking out about that.
by dgcambridge on Dec 10, 2008 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
Jim Brown is better now, but LeBron may surpass him some day. Of course we won’t know that for another 15 years. Jim Brown is definately hard to top, though.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 10, 2008 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
Right.
When LeBron plays his entire career as a Cav and retires as the consensus greatest player of all time, then he can hang with Jim Brown. LeBron has won zero MVP awards, unless you count the All-Star Game. Winning a title or two would help, too.
LeBron will go down as one of the best players of all time. Unfortunately, I like most, think that it will be mostly with another team
That’s all media hype. He has said repeatedly that he wants to win championsips. If the Cavs continue to build a good team around him, and they’re an elite team this year, then I don’t think he will leave. He can make more money in Cleveland and he has talked about how he loves living in Ohio and playing close to home. Of course, the media never talks about this because they can’t imagine anyone wanting to play in Cleveland over New York.
People really, really need to stop assuming he’s going to leave. He’s said nothing that would make anyone think that.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 10, 2008 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
LeBron will do what he wants to do. Will he feel like branching out and trying something new in a couple years? Nobody really can say.
I will say this. The fuss being made over the Knicks is ridiculous. Taking dramatic steps to clear cap space merely puts them in the running with a dozen other teams. It doesn’t make them a good team or an organization that’s capable of putting together a good team, and that is what LeBron will want.
The headline should not be, “Knicks clear cap space for LeBron”. The headline should be, “Knicks clear cap space in attempt to eventually rejoin the NBA”.
You’re definately right — I have no idea why people think LeBron would want to go to a terrible Knicks team. They’re not even competative now.
Also, there are many other big names who will be free agents that year. Wade, Bosh, Nowitiski (I believe), so it’s not just LeBron that everyone is after. Many people are also forgetting that the Cavs will have a ton of cap space in 2010 also, so they could sing LeBron AND another big name. Why would he want to leave then?
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 10, 2008 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly, I discount what Lebron says at this point in time, in either direction. It’s foolish for him to indicate one way or another. I am going purely off of my own inclination that Lebron is gone. I also don’t watch ESPN so it is difficult for me to get caught up in the media circus
The NBA isn’t like the MLB. Players can make more money staying where they are, so they usually do (or they force a sign-and-trade, which of course the Cavs would never do). Do you know the last superstar to spurn his current team to take less money somewhere else? Shaq, who left Orlando for LA in the mid-90s. So for all the talk, it rarely happens.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 10, 2008 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t find a link right now but by way of Rotoworld John Heyman is reporting that the Yanks are also close to a 4yr/~$70M deal with Derek Lowe.
Um, yeah, build from within.
Steel Nick
Wait, so if they sign CC (Type A) and Lowe (Type A), that effectively means they’re done right? Is that a rule or am I making that up?
Don't be stupid. PUT IN MELOAN.
Seriously, most teams would be thrilled to sign just one quality free agent starter. Yet, the yanks plan on signing at least two or three (including the two best pitchers on the market). I thought a rotation with Sabathia, Chamberlain, Hughes, and Wang would have been plenty, but I guess they don’t have much confidence in their homegrown players. That experiment lasted less than a year.
I think the fact that the yanks are once again buying their way to the playoffs through free agent overkill bothers me more than just Sabathia signing with them.
Sheets is so interesting right now. I keep hearing numbers like 2 years/$30 M. Really? He’s got to go for more than that, right? He’d look so good in Cleveland.
by dgcambridge on Dec 10, 2008 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not happy about this, but I’m really glad CC pegged them for another $40 mil more than their next competitor. God bless the yankee tax.
by world dictator on Dec 10, 2008 10:45 AM EST reply actions
Yahoo reporting CC to NY is happening, but with opt-out clause after 3 years.
by cleveland teamer on Dec 10, 2008 11:22 AM EST reply actions
My gut says that this must be incorrect. Just like Phillips’ numbers on Wood are wrong.
I don’t know, the Yankees are probably feeling pretty certain that CC won’t be able to get more on the open market in 3 years. I have trouble imaging how he could, but I’ve made that claim about other players and this clause before, and been wrong every time.
C.C. is a big fat tub o’ lard postseason loser and best days are behind him.
Funny, but I didn’t feel that way yesterday.
It really is. What is also incredible is that it is so excessive that not even the Red Sox or Angels could come remotely close to it.
“2009 Yankees, we buy our way our of our mistakes”.
I was having a fantastic day until I heard this…I was more than happy to cheer on the Brewers last season. I guess I only fooled myself when I looked at CC as being a guy who played the game to play the game, to me he’s just like A-Rod, Thome, Boozer, Ramirez, etc. at this point.
This is like losing a friend to his girlfriend who treats him like shit. He never hang out with his boys anymore because his girlfriend offers him sex, which he likes, but still treats him like a dog…..
This is my goodbye to CC, after his fat fingers ink his name on that contract, I will have no problem slandering him when he comes to Cleveland and I hope that everyone at Progressive boos him out of the stadium.
Would any of CC’s detractors turn down a salary increase of nearly 30% – guaranteed for the next seven years?
I don’t hate CC for taking the money that was offered to him. The disturbing thing is the system in MLB that allows the Yankees to make this sort of blow them out of the water offer that other teams clearly cannot come close to (and still be the leading contenders for Lowe and Burnett), coupled with the Yankee arrogance that goes with getting the player they want at any price.
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
by Harry Doyle on Dec 10, 2008 2:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He still is dead to me…period…I agree with you about the money, but he just said he wanted to be a Dodger, apparently not bad enough…It is all about the money. It’s scary that these athletes get paid this much when the people who pay their salaries are barely making enough to get by, the fans…..Ask CC if we’re in a recession, he won’t know
by Tribe_Hippie on Dec 10, 2008 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, I’m sure C.C. would know that we’re in a recession. That opt-out clause is his ticket to a bigger bank if the economy somehow pulls a u-turn in the next three years.
You’d really have to be a fool not to take a contract that pays you nearly 20% more than the next employer that also allows you to potentially sign a NEW contract in three years if you feel you could get another bump.
How a fool? No matter what contract CC signed (ie, 100 million dollars and above) he was never going to think about money ever again. Ever.
Ever.
Even the Brewers contract.
Whereas he will certainly be thinking about the media (NY pressure), his teammates (Jeter/Arod), the weather (brrr), the league (no hitting).
Did he REALLY say he wanted to be a Dodger? The closest source I found to the conversation was on ESPN. It said:
Dodgers general manager Ned Colletti told ESPN.com’s Jayson Stark on Monday that he ran into the free agent on Sunday night in a hotel lobby and the left-hander told him that he wants to be a Dodger.
So, Stark reported that Colletti told him that CC said that he wants to be a Dodger. That’s triple hearsay. It could just as easily been wishful thinking/creative interpretation on Colletti’s part. Even so, armed with that knowledge/belief, Colletti should have put his money where CC’s mouth was. I’ve not heard a single report of any contract offer by LA to CC.
I’d like to be a federal judge (trust me, it may be one of the best gigs in the world), but no one’s offered it to me, so I’ll continue to draw my paycheck at my current job. CC may have wanted to be a Dodger, but the Yankees were willing to pay for his services.
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
Triple hearsay? Don’t be so dramatic.
It’s only one step removed from Sabathia telling a reporter directly, which is the best we usually get.
You want C.C. to file the story himself?
Ok, not triple, but it was still a report of Colletti saying what CC told him, and that was my point. And again, unfortunately, the Dodgers do not appear to have used this information to make an offer to CC to fulfill his wish. That’s their problem, not CC’s.
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
+1 – exactly my feelings as well when it comes to the economic climate in MLB.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Whoops – that was supposed to be in reply to Harry Doyle’s comment about MLB’s current economic situation giving the Yankees virtually the “right” to sign anyone they choose at any dollars they want and no one else can come remotely close to it, not even the Red Sox, Angels, Giants, or Dodgers.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
So you’re saying that CC is pretty much like every other athlete who plays professional sports. I don’t blame him one bit. Most people would do the exact same thing, even those who are criticizing him now.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 10, 2008 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think most people would. Do you think someone from San Antonio would turn down 12 million dollars if you offered them 16 million to move to San Francisco? Or a New Yorker turn down 12 million for 16 to move to Boise?
“Most people” know that 100 million dollars is unspendable for any reasonable person, and would greatly value other considerations more than the difference between Unlimited Wealth and Unlimited Wealth + $40 Million. It’s kind of like the difference between sex with 6 girls at once and sex with 7… is there really one?
Or… “most people” would take the extra money, but they’d at least own up (proudly?) that that’s the reason. CC is doing neither, and that’s what makes him both greedy and a liar. I commend Teixera, at least he’s honest about his motives.
I have actually done this (obviously millions are not on the line) twice. once i was offered a significant amount of money to relocate to a different city and i declined. another time i was offered a significant amount of money to go to a different company in the same city doing the same thing, but i didn’t like the kind of work they did. nothing gets more tired in these discussions than the old “you’d do the same thing in that position line.” CC actually struck me as someone who fit that mold – that going to the west coast was the most important thing to him.
That depends heavily on who the seventh girl is.
by Jay on Dec 10, 2008 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
So you’re saying women aren’t fungible?
I kind of like funging them, myself…
by Logodaedalus on Dec 10, 2008 7:00 PM EST up reply actions
This is perhaps the only appropriate response.
by Logodaedalus on Dec 10, 2008 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
Why should they own up proudly? And what has CC said on this issue? I think like most people would do, he’s considering the money and the location together, throwing them in a blender and trying to make a decision. Everyone cares about compensation and location, but to varying degrees.
What I find to be absolutely wrong in your analysis is the notion that a person reaches a certain income level and then stops valuing money. Of course, it loses its marginal value as you gain more, but I think not nearly as quickly as you suppose. And it certainly doesn’t drop to zero just because you’ve got a nice house for yourself and each of your children.
We’ve been round and round on this topic before, but I think you’re just underestimating the average person’s ability to adjust their ambition with regard to money, or life in general, in this case, CC’s amibition with regard to the extra $40 million. Yeah, we get that he doesn’t need it to live or eat. He can use it to buy a business, or make an actual difference in charity work, or provide for his 200 closest relatives.
I’m not arguing that he should have chosen $40 M over his preferred city. He probably shouldn’t have. But arguing against the idea that the last $40 M has no value at all.
I think the average person does not have the perspective to recognize when enough is enough in terms of money, and lots of folks also figure, even if I don’t need more, why should the other party get to keep more? Shouldn’t I get to control that money?
Yeah, you and I disagree sharply on this. I just think that it isn’t about wanting a solid gold house or getting to take the family to chucky cheese every day with virtually unlimited tokens, it’s about buying the Cleveland Indians, or starting a record label, or building 100 houses in New Orleans. Those latter goals seem like rational things to me, and the 7th girl theory doesn’t hold.
No, I’m agreeing with you. “Shouldn’t I get to control that money” means exactly what you’re saying, wanting to be a larger player in business dealings or philanthropic initiatives. If you look at it from that standpoint, you could argue it would be self-indulgent NOT to take the highest bid. Certainly Adam Smith would say so (though he’s been taking a beating lately).
I must shamefully admit I moved from working in consumer and B2B advertising to ‘healthcare’ advertising* because of an extra $18k per year. But that was going from $35k to $53k in one move, which was a pretty big impact at the time.
- - pharma advertising is the Yankees of advertising (actually it’s more like the Seattle Mariners of advertising, since so much of it sucks.)
Signature to be named later.
I’m only arguing that he said over and over, probably more than 50 times in public going back two offseasons, that “money isn’t the most important thing.” In the end he went where the most money was. To the place he was greatly rumored not not want to be. A place almost as far away from his “home” as possible. A place where he doesn’t get to hit, etc…
If he’d said nothing at all, or if he had said, “it’s not the only consideration, but money is a probably going to be very important” I wouldn’t have posted… hence the Teixera props. All the other stuff was to illustrate that it wouldn’t be crazy for an athlete to actually take the Brewers contract.
I think the opt out clause was crucial though. CC genuinely to me seemed to want to go elsewhere, but a fair market for his talents wasn’t readily available outside of the Yanks. CC’s agent might have told him to take this opt out and hope the economy rebounds by the next time he becomes a free agent
Yeah, everybody has an irrational side.
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 10, 2008 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
If I had a job opportunity that allowed me to live in New York, I’d take it all else being equal…it’s my favorite city in the U.S. I don’t think I would if I thought my employer was evil though. I think the real problem is that CC doesn’t share what should be the universally held belief that the Yankees are in league with Beelzebub.
by Logodaedalus on Dec 10, 2008 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
Tough to quantify this. C.C. has already made about $30 million, and this new deal is 23 × 7 = 161.
There were several teams, including the Dodgers, who would have signed him for 22 × 6 = 132.
At least 12 clubs and possibly 25 would have signed him for 23 × 5 = 115. I believe we would have.
That means that C.C.’s net earnings when this was done was going to be between 145M and 190M, no matter what.
So the right to choose your venue is not worth 46M to C.C., and the right to several preferable choices (including a California NL option) is not worth even 29 million.
Still, I have to think the opt-out is the key point there. He wasn’t going to walk away from an extra ~35M when the only reason is that he might not like to play there, when they’re offering him the opt-out.
I really think any team willing to give him a 6 year deal would also be willing to give him a 3 year opt out, no? If not, why not?
Because if the player performs really well, you no longer have him on a nice three-year deal, while if he’s terrible, you’re stuck with the deal.
The market is set without opt-outs, and the dollars and years are based on teams’ tolerance for risk. The longer the deal, the riskier, but there is also the possibility for a large or small reward. By giving an opt-out, you’re substantially reducing the potential reward while keeping all the risk.
I got the concept, but both these comments make it clearer. I knew there was a difference in value (opt out or no opt out), but I thought it was more, “well, at least we got him for 3 years” like with Burnett.
Yeah. It’s more like: “We got him for three years if he stays CC Sabathia, and seven if he turns into Mike Hampton.”
And from his perspective, if he pitches like he knows he can, he regains total control of his life three years from now… and if he doesn’t, he’s still guaranteed $92M.
It’s an outrageous deal and he’d have been crazy not to take it.
I still hope his arm falls off.
by still ill on Dec 10, 2008 5:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I just did some quick math, and I came up with roughly $30 million as the cost of the opt-out to the team.
I decided there’s roughly a 40% chance that he opts out, depending on his career path, and that includes career-ending injuries in the other 60. Within the 40 opt-out scenarios, his median marginal-win projection over the last four years is about 19. By 2011, the cost of marginal wins on the free-agent market will be around $7 million — it’s 4.8 right now — so C.C. will be worth $133 million but only owed $92 million.
That means in an opt-out scenario, his remaining contract would have been worth about $40 million as a performance bargain, plus maybe $30 million as cost of acquisition, which represents the scarcity of top-tier starters who are age 30, as of 2011. (Think about top-tier Japanese posting fees and this will make sense to you.) So basically, there’s about a 40% chance that they’ll lose out on a $70 million value.
And in return, they get … nothing. No other club was ever reported to be willing to go over $120 million, so they were the top bidder by a much as $50 million on top of giving the opt-out.
by Jay on Dec 10, 2008 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Very well said. Sheehan was trying to justify it in his chat today, but I think he was just thinking out loud. His point was that, in the scenario where CC wants to opt out (such as being worth $133 millionish), the Yankees will benefit from allowing him to do so because of the big injury risk associated with the last 4 years. But of course, if he didn’t have the opt-out clause at the point, it would just mean that the Yankees would have a trading chip worth $133 million with a $92 million contract.
They would be in position to grab some of that value, and get out of the injury risk if so inclined. Now CC gets it all…
the Yankees will benefit from allowing him to do so because of the big injury risk associated with the last 4 years.
This doesn’t really hold, though. The greatest risk to the last four years is in his suffering an injury or substantial performance decline in the first three years. Based on BP attrition numbers, there is only a 61% chance C.C. makes it to the end of Year 3 while still being a top pitcher.
Interesting. Like I said, he seemed to be thinking it through as the chat went on.
On other points in the chat: He again stated that Dunn would be a nice fit for the Tribe. (agree)
And he also painted Furcal as someone who might have trouble finding the money. I think it actually looks like Furcal is the big middle infield target – ESPN has KC, Oakland, Toronto, and LAD after him, so I see him getting paid well by someone. More than we’d offer, but I’m just guessing.
There are two possible reasons why the Indians don’t seem to have an interest in Dunn, the first being, they’re just tight-lipped. Still, I’ve heard nothing from anybody suggesting that they are actually interested, only that they should be.
The second being, they think they need a skill-position infielder a lot more than they need a corner bat. I’ll give them a free pass on that evaluation, but the market seems to be pushing hard in the other direction. The idea that we flat-out don’t need a corner bat at all seems foolish, and some quality options appear to be available on reasonable terms — while at the same time, skilled infielders now appear to come in two varieties, marginal and super-expensive (in dollars or talent).
It may seem like signing Dunn forces them to just “live with” either Barfield or Marte, but they may actually feel that signing Dunn forces them to trade Shoppach for a comparable infielder.
I’m thinking more and more that if we can’t find a good (especially defensively) infielder, we’re just going to have to suck it up and accept we’re going to get below average production out of at least one infield position (some combination of Carroll +). And it’s getting harder and harder to think of potentially available good infielders. One way to compensate that would be to add a guy like Dunn to a corner OF spot, moving Gutz into a platoon/4th OFer role. Outfield defense would obviously suffer, but if our staff remains so GB-heavy…
I thought Gutz was already there. Isn’t our starting outfield currently:
1. sizemore
2. choo
3. dellucci/gutz platoon
So we would just be moving Dunn into DD’s spot? And as Hafner insurance also.
Interesting question about the outfield next year. Seems unlikely to me that they’ll use five outfielders again if they’ve got a steady DH on the roster. What do you do there? Cut bait on Righteous D, or use Ben’s last option? Francisco seems a lot less tradeable to me without an option, but how much of Dellucci’s salary is going to be earned anyway? Does anybody think he’s going to be a useful player in 2009?
by fleerdon on Dec 10, 2008 8:22 PM EST up reply actions
no
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Dec 10, 2008 8:30 PM EST up reply actions
He’s got enough cash now to buy a new website with pictures of him rolling around in the Devil’s money.
I like to think the cash that the Yankees hand out looks and feels greasy
by Tribe_Hippie on Dec 10, 2008 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
I dunno, she might be, haven’t talked to my mom today…thanks for the reminder
by Tribe_Hippie on Dec 10, 2008 6:00 PM EST up reply actions
What does he live under a rock? Oh wait…he’s a Yankee fan..so maybe he does!
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 10, 2008 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
No, he’s actually a real Yankee fan, and although he’s happy they got C.C., he is pretty pissed about how they just buy everyone. The reason he didn’t know is that it’s finals week. He’ll probably have better grades than me for isolating himself from the world.
The only person I associate with that I consider a “real” Yankee fan is my old Navy roommate Dave. He lives in New jersey, which is kind of like living under a rock, but he has cable so we talked about it hours ago. I tried to make him nervous about the innings pitched over the past two years (thanks LGT community.)
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 10, 2008 6:26 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not smarter than you, but… I think the thinking was that the opt-out was specifically required by CC because he was worried about playing in NY. It has been painted that way. Brick (who, by the way, is worth roughly 100 houses) is pointing out that his agents asked for it from every team.
Well, it has a lot of monetary value no matter who he signed with. But it still may be of particular (non-monetary) value with regards to the Yankees.
CC was the #1 target by a mile.
As much as I will hate seeing CC in pinstripes, I am looking forward to the Sabathia-Lee duel on opening day. The epic loyal vs. rebel superhero battle of the ages.
(Please don’t undermine the epic narrative by commenting on my inappropriate use of the word "rebel")
That said it will probably be a 10-7 game or something.
I honestly can’t figure out which one is Epic Loyal and which one is Rebel Superhero. I see elements of both in each.
hmm… that was supposed to be Epic (Loyal [Superhero] vs. Rebel Superhero) Battle… but feel free to think of it your way too
by Logodaedalus on Dec 10, 2008 10:51 PM EST up reply actions
From same article (in the comments section, the perusal of which is kinda like sticking your head into a backed-up toilet bowl):
DarthDomm wrote:
Well, now we can all finally move on with our lives & project our 2009 starting rotation somewhat!
C.C. ya in the world series everybody! Better start saving you money for those long awaited W.S. tickets “NOW” because I could pretty much guarantee that the Yanks will be in it! Especially after they pick up 2 or 3 more of those pitchers out of Sheets, Brunett, Lowe, & Pettitte & especially after they sign Manny Ramirez. Hank is reported to still really want him in pinstripes & he is even willing to let him keep his dreadlocks! I MEAN WOW! Now if that isn’t telling us something, I don’t know what is??? =]
Here’s a little equation:
THE NEW YANKEE STADIUM + MI$$ING OUT ON THE 2008 PLAYOFF$ + The PI$$ED OFF STEINBRENNER$ & CA$HMAN = 2009 WORLD $ERIE$ CHAMPION$ ! ! !
Accept it now Red Sux fans!!!
Sounds like they’re happy in Noo Yawk, eh?
Me? I’m going to retch.
--
In Cliff we trust.




















