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Indians Deal Gutierrez in Three-Team Trade

The Indians have traded defensive whiz Franklin Gutierrez to the Seattle Mariners. They've received in return reliever Joe Smith from the New York Mets and minor-league middle infielder Luis Valbuena from Seattle. The Indians were the facilitators in this deal, with the main pieces involved being J.J. Putz and Aaron Heilman.

Mets get: RHP J.J. Putz, OF Jeremy Reed, RHP Sean Green
Mariners get: RHP Aaron Heilman, OF Endy Chavez, OF Franklin Gutierrez, 1B Matt Carp
Indians get: RHP Joe Smith, IF Luis Valbuena

My first reaction is that I don't like the deal.

Link 6 months ago Seagull_on_sale_pier_tiny Ryan Comment 340 comments 0 recs |

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Read More: mlb hotstove, Franklin Gutierrez (CF - SEA), Joe Smith (P - CLE), J.J. Putz (P - NYM), Sean Green (P - NYM), Luis Valbuena (SS - CLE), Endy Chavez (LF - SEA), Aaron Heilman (P - CHC), Cleveland Indians, Seattle Mariners, New York Mets

Comments

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..and the blog headline has been adjusted forthwith.

by Ryan on Dec 10, 2008 11:40 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And my first impression is: I don’t get it.

by Ryan on Dec 10, 2008 11:42 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gutz is an odd man out in this trade. It’s mind-boggling to think of how this three-way was fostered.

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 10, 2008 11:44 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

me too

Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.

by Gradyforpresident on Dec 10, 2008 11:44 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah, i don’t like an outfield that counts on choo repeating and francisco not being boring.

by Brick. on Dec 11, 2008 12:04 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There’s certainly risk involved, but then again, Gutz didn’t repeat his 2007 in 2008 either, which means he’s not a lock to produce in 2009.

Essentially, there’s no guarantee that Gutz’s value will go up in the coming seasons, and is probably more likely to go down, barring an offensive surgence we haven’t seen yet. Many have complained that Shapiro holds onto his prospects too long and doesn’t get anything for them. This time, he got a few pieces to address two key areas (bullpen and infield) for an OFer who never really developed as we expected. Additionally, he’s most valuable playing in CF, and he wasn’t going to do that as long as Grady is here.

I’ll miss Gutz too, and it remains to be seen whether this trade works out for us, but I think it’s a solid move by Shapiro to address two areas without giving up our most valuable trade chip (Shoppach), so it’s still possible we could address our starting rotation via a trade (maybe Ricky Nolasco or Josh Johnson from the Marlins, as they reportedly have interest in a young, cheap catcher).

Just my 2 cents.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Dec 11, 2008 12:09 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

nice use of “surgence”

by Logodaedalus on Dec 11, 2008 12:17 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thanks! :-)

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Dec 11, 2008 12:23 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’m trying to figure out who the 25th man (position player) is on the roster now.

by cheech99 on Dec 10, 2008 11:49 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I probably value FG less than most here despite his incredible defense. I tend to place a major premium on hitting over fielding still, and despite FG’s flashes of potential, he was incredibly frustrating at the plate and probably would not have been able to seize a full time job with Choo’s emergence and LaPorta/Brantley waiting in the wings.

If you view Gutz as a part-time player, I think you have to move forward with this trade

by Roger Dorn on Dec 10, 2008 11:51 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But there’s that potential thing, and even if he continues to hit like he has, he’s a league average center fielder because of his defense.

I would have to imagine that Valbuena was the key to this thing, although what I’ve read projects him more as utility guy than a solution at second.

by Ryan on Dec 10, 2008 11:56 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Shaps and company must value Valbuena as a (potential) starter. Otherwise I don’t see this happening.

by APV on Dec 10, 2008 11:57 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We’ve given up a better player than the ones we’ve received. Our better player was cheap and ready to contribute in a contending season.

I also am not pleased, but I am restraining my full dismay until I’ve had some time to contemplate this.

First impression: hate it.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 10, 2008 11:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Speaking of which, anybody want to make Joe Smith look better than I think he does?

by fleerdon on Dec 11, 2008 12:00 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He has been healthy.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 11, 2008 12:04 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tasty GB%, but he seems to have a case of the BBs.

by fleerdon on Dec 11, 2008 12:05 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If he’s healthy, that’s another arm in there. 60+ OK innings from one reliever is harder to come by than i used to think.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 11, 2008 12:07 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I watched a lot of Mets games near the end of last season. In a bullpen that was clearly going through a desurgence, he was a reliable arm. I’m not ready to captian the S.S. Smith, but he’s could prove to be another option near the back end of the bullpen.

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Dec 11, 2008 1:36 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Projecting relievers is outside of my personal skill set.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 11, 2008 12:06 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We need better pitching now that we have (much?) worse defense behind that pitching.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 11, 2008 12:02 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I just can’t get over the feeling that we didn’t get enough in return for a starting ML CF. Then again, I think Gutz’s hitting will improve. Overall, I think I need to sleep on it – but I agree I’m not impressed.

Still the local "Barfield Bounces Back Believer" and confident that Gutz will succeed in Seattle.

by mjmarble on Dec 11, 2008 12:04 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hello Ryan,

Again, though, he wouldn’t play CF while Grady’s here, and Grady will be here in all likelihood until at least through the 2011 season, 3 more seasons. If Gutz does no better than he’s doing now, or gets worse, his value becomes that much less. In three years, I doubt we’d be able to get what we got for Gutz if we still had him then. And would we keep Gutz beyond that point? Doubtful. Brantley or some other OFer will likely and hopefully emerge by that point (when Sizemore may be gone).

I suspect Valbuena was a key part of the deal – his offense doesn’t look that impressive, but like Droobs, he was rushed, and he does play solid defense, so I suspect the Indians think he can fit in as a starter. They felt it was worth trading a player who likely would not get much better than he is now with us and who would not play his natural position for us while he was here.

Just my 2 cents.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Dec 11, 2008 12:13 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dude. What in the eff is Luis Valbuena?

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Dec 10, 2008 11:52 PM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

numbers suggest he’s legit

by APV on Dec 10, 2008 11:55 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

APV – Just confirming, he’s right up there with Carlos Rivero on that PTM scoring you and Jay did, right behind Santana?

by cheech99 on Dec 10, 2008 11:57 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

basically…I didn’t go back and look at his 2007 numbers, but in 2008 he was the real deal

by APV on Dec 10, 2008 11:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he’s somewhere right around 7 on the scale (depending on what defensive/league value you give him)

by APV on Dec 10, 2008 11:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oops…I effed up his defensive number…he’s over 8

by APV on Dec 11, 2008 12:30 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

more people should read this

by Voltaire on Dec 11, 2008 12:36 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I have visions of Joe Smith neutralizing Ramirez, Quentin, Dye, Konerko one week and Cabrera, Magglio, Thames the next.

by cheech99 on Dec 11, 2008 12:02 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If this leads to some secondary moves I’m cool with it.

I liked Franklin, but I wasn’t in love with him like some of you.

by mjschaefer on Dec 11, 2008 12:02 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree with the concept of a secondary move to this one…

Still the local "Barfield Bounces Back Believer" and confident that Gutz will succeed in Seattle.

by mjmarble on Dec 11, 2008 12:05 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I thought we had something. The way he dove for liners to RF and I drank copious amounts of beer while cheering him on. How do you break something that beautiful apart?

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 12:28 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don’t forget the bi-monthly fastballs ripped deep in to the bleachers. sigh.

Don't forget to pay your parking ticket.

by TheVanillaGorilla on Dec 11, 2008 12:29 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No. I’ll never forget. That was our bi-monthly thing!

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 12:43 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wait, that was OUR bi-monthly thing! Two timing SOB! I’m glad he’s gone.

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Dec 11, 2008 1:39 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

One good thing – the David Justice trade tree sprouts a new branch.

by Ryan on Dec 11, 2008 12:03 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hang an ornament… ‘tis the season. I’ve got an idea for one: Frankiln’s future gold glove(s)

Later on, Gut’z

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 11, 2008 12:09 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good Lord, that thing just will not die!

by Jay on Dec 11, 2008 1:27 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dave Cameron also has a post at LL in the top thread, not sure how to link it. He seems to really like Valbuena

by Roger Dorn on Dec 11, 2008 12:04 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

2007, Game 2, ALCS, 11th inning, Gutz nails the coffin shut with a 3 run homer.

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 12:04 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Indians suddenly have a full bullpen, and perhaps an arm and Shoppach can be used to grab the SP the team really needs.

1. Wood
2. J-Lew
3. Raffy L
4. Raffy R
5. Masa
6. Joe Smith
7. Rundles
8. Miller
9. Meloan
10. Stevens
11. Mujica

by xrickx on Dec 11, 2008 12:04 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If it’s even remotely like last year, that’s enough relievers to get us through April.

by fleerdon on Dec 11, 2008 12:06 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   2 recs

It’ll soon be an odd #d year. Which means we didn’t need more pen arms.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 11, 2008 12:07 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I see this list as six established relievers and five candidates for the seventh slot (and replacements).

And you forgot Tony Sipp.

by Jay on Dec 11, 2008 1:30 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I figured Rundles get the shot at the open spot while Sipp plays in Columbus.

by xrickx on Dec 11, 2008 2:02 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’m okay with losing Jensen. Just throwing that out there. Flawless closer + Shoppach, anyone?

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Dec 11, 2008 2:15 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if we’re trading one of those top 10, no doubt I want Masa gone. #11 is dead in my mind.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 11, 2008 12:53 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It’s hard to imagine Mujica playing a role given how wildly inconsistent he has been in the majors, and considering he’s out of options. I’m remembering back to having K-brera and Jason Davis out of options, and seemingly four other guys, it was just a real problem.

by Jay on Dec 11, 2008 4:36 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I still don’t think espn.com has a clue.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 11, 2008 12:05 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good morning!

Still the local "Barfield Bounces Back Believer" and confident that Gutz will succeed in Seattle.

by mjmarble on Dec 11, 2008 12:06 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There’s not BoSox or Yankees in this trade. what do you expect?

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 12:29 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I liked the deal until it mentioned we are giving up minor leagueRS in addition. Look, they could be throw ins, but I have a feeling one of them won’t be.

I will miss Franky G already being parked at the warning track waiting for a smashed ball to land easily into his mitt .. I won’t miss those 2 for 30 slides he would go into 2-3 times in a season.

I was honestly hoping for an established 2b .. even if he was on the backside of his career.

by Toxicadam on Dec 11, 2008 12:06 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

don’t worry, from Castrovince

UPDATE No. 2 (11:50 p.m. ET): Holy Lord, this thing just keeps growing. It’s actually a 12-player swap, and it does involve other Minor Leaguers. Nobody from the Indians, though.

In addition to the players previously mentioned, the M’s are getting right-hander Maikel Cleto, left-hander Jason Vargas and outfielder Ezekiel Carrera from the Mets.

Wow.

by APV on Dec 11, 2008 12:07 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I really like this deal for the M’s. REALLY. Bavasi must be gone.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 11, 2008 12:08 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wow, Seattle is getting seven players back.

by Ryan on Dec 11, 2008 12:08 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

very good for them. 2 of the top 10 defensive OFers in the game, too.

by APV on Dec 11, 2008 12:08 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LL was all excited that they might have actually won a trade. It’s kinda endearing in a pathetic way.

Still the local "Barfield Bounces Back Believer" and confident that Gutz will succeed in Seattle.

by mjmarble on Dec 11, 2008 12:09 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

WTF are the Mets thinking?

by APV on Dec 11, 2008 12:09 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

“We have money. We can buy replacements for these guys later.”

by xrickx on Dec 11, 2008 12:10 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As I noted above, their bullpen fell apart last season in ways that make even years in Cleveland look down right positive. I suppose with Putz setting up for K-Rod, they feel their problems in that area are solved. (Getting rid of Hielman probably helps a lot in that area too.)

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Dec 11, 2008 1:48 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I had a little trouble with the syntactic ambiguity of the word “even” there

by Logodaedalus on Dec 11, 2008 11:38 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Holy moly – this trade continues to grow before our very eyes. Will it grow to 20 or even 30 players, setting the largest transfer of players in history? :-)

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Dec 11, 2008 12:15 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Mets are giving up three prospects, not Cleveland.

by xrickx on Dec 11, 2008 12:07 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, I got the silver, at least.

by vegaswatch on Dec 11, 2008 12:08 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Pete Abraham is reporting (haven’t seen this elsewhere) that the three minor leaguers that get you from nine players to 12 are all NYM prospects that I hadn’t heard of.

by vegaswatch on Dec 11, 2008 12:07 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Huh, I just realized that he’s reporting that we’re getting Carp rather than Smith.

by vegaswatch on Dec 11, 2008 12:09 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Quick, I need 75 posts on Carp

by Roger Dorn on Dec 11, 2008 12:10 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Carp can eat anything—including innings!!!

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 12:11 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Carp can eat anything….

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 12:34 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wha…???

Still the local "Barfield Bounces Back Believer" and confident that Gutz will succeed in Seattle.

by mjmarble on Dec 11, 2008 12:11 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, pretty much.

I would tend to believe him because he’s there and they probably literally announced it in the press room, but he could have just mistyped.

by vegaswatch on Dec 11, 2008 12:12 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Are you there as well, vegaswatch?

by Roger Dorn on Dec 11, 2008 12:13 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If “there” is on my couch in my apartment in Atlanta, then: yes!

It is finals week, after all.

by vegaswatch on Dec 11, 2008 12:15 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just remember, what happens in Buckhead, stays in Buckhead.

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Dec 11, 2008 1:50 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

people still go to Buckhead?

by APV on Dec 11, 2008 7:57 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think that’s a mistake, but…

by APV on Dec 11, 2008 12:13 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It almost has to be, as EVERYONE else — including the team sites — are reporting Smith & Valbuena.

by vegaswatch on Dec 11, 2008 12:19 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nice grammar, idiot.

by vegaswatch on Dec 11, 2008 12:20 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If we’re getting Carp, I don’t know what we’re going to do with him – we have as many 1B options as we do bullpen arms:

Garko
Hafner (though he really can’t play it, but I’ll list him anyway)
Martinez
Aubrey
LaPorta
Hodges
Mills
Weglarz (did play 1B originally, so it’s not out of the question)

That’s partly why we left Brown off the 40-man roster – if Carp’s involved, you would think another move is probably in order involving one of the above, plus perhaps Shoppach for a starting pitcher.

Just my 2 cents.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Dec 11, 2008 12:17 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i don’t think we’re getting carp

by APV on Dec 11, 2008 12:19 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree, APV – that would be a surprise to me. Smith and Valbuena make much more sense, in my opinion.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Dec 11, 2008 12:22 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Does Carp have a trout arm?

by cclemens31 on Dec 11, 2008 12:21 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He plays 1B, so his defense isn’t good enough for 2B/3B/SS – maybe that means he has a trout arm? :-)

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Dec 11, 2008 12:23 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well done.

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Dec 11, 2008 2:17 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I am a little nervous for our OF defense now. But then again…it’s OF defense.

by APV on Dec 11, 2008 12:08 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No worries, we have Grady

by Roger Dorn on Dec 11, 2008 12:08 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

who now has to cover 80% of the ground.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 11, 2008 12:09 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Which is what he always did when Gutz wasn’t in.

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 12:10 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If we sign Dunn, he’ll have to cover 100% of the ground.

by Pronk33 on Dec 11, 2008 12:15 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, Dunn shouldn’t even be mentioned in this thread.

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 12:17 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sorry, won’t happen again.

by Pronk33 on Dec 11, 2008 12:20 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why? Choo and Grady are fine. Francisco is the only issue. If Crowe is needed, he’s fine on the corners.

by xrickx on Dec 11, 2008 12:09 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’m just nervous because I really liked watching Gutz and Grady cover 75% of the OF

by APV on Dec 11, 2008 12:10 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gutz’ defense will be missed. I look at it like this, though…there are few standout 2B. Orlando Hudson is great because he can post an OPS+ of 102, 108, and 106 the last three years at 2B and play good defense? Ronnie Belliard posted 106 and 107 OPS+ marks in his two full seasons. But is the defense really worth the extra cash?

I just don’t think there’s that far of a cliff from being a good 2B to being league average. Why not pay above market at other positions to get good players who actually make an impact? Leave Valbuena at 2B, see if he can OPS+ between 90-100, and try and get big guns at the positions where the big guns are actually available.

by xrickx on Dec 11, 2008 12:15 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Grady and Choo are fine, as mentioned, and BenFran is better than both Dunn and Dellucci in the OF.

I don’t know why you guys keep thinking BenFran is horrible in the OF – he’s not. Is he as good as Gutz? No, but he’s hardly a butcher out there. BenFran did play all 3 OF positions pretty solidly in the Indians’ Minor League system for a number of years, so I think he can handle LF without too much trouble (and better than Dellucci, so I’ll take BenFran out there).

In other words, we could do worse out there than BenFran.

Just my 2 cents.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Dec 11, 2008 12:20 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I saw Francisco get late jumps on balls and take some pretty bad routes. He definitely has a plus arm, though.

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Dec 11, 2008 9:04 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yea i agree. the arm isn’t really strong just kinda, and accurate.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 11, 2008 12:54 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i don’t think either are worth a fanshot, but word is we might get Wood and the yankees might get CC.

by Brick. on Dec 11, 2008 12:11 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

As part of the deal, Putz agreed to change his name to Juan Jesus.

by Toxicadam on Dec 11, 2008 12:11 AM EST reply reply actions actions   1 recs

ok…i’ll give a rec here

by APV on Dec 11, 2008 12:12 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don’t hate the deal, but I still don’t quite get it either (I was waiting for a follow-up before the deal was confirmed). I think I’ll have to hear Shapiro’s press pending press conference and find out what his plans for Valbuena are before I decide.

by Pronk33 on Dec 11, 2008 12:13 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Press conference scheduled….?

by xrickx on Dec 11, 2008 12:15 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’m just assuming there’ll be something tomorrow, but no one’s said a time yet.

by Pronk33 on Dec 11, 2008 12:18 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Castrovince’s entry said something will be announced 9:30 PDT – which means in 10 minutes.

by Ryan on Dec 11, 2008 12:20 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Do they link live coverage?

by xrickx on Dec 11, 2008 12:23 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i want the header to be “Let’s Go Tribe! : Valbuena: Doesn’t Body Well”

by Brick. on Dec 11, 2008 12:16 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Seattle visitors. GUTZ IS A HARD WORKER AND YA’LL WILL LOVE HIM*

*A running LGT joke, but really, it’s said that he’s a hard worker—they’ve seemingly been coaching him to death trying to ‘mold’ him as a hitter. Interestingly, the game seems to come so easily to him, just based on watching him. He might be better suited to your West Coast mojo. Enjoy. He is a unique talent who I’ve always pulled for.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 11, 2008 12:19 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The trade was confirmed an hour ago and still no word on ESPN. Have the monkey’s taken over again over there?

Still the local "Barfield Bounces Back Believer" and confident that Gutz will succeed in Seattle.

by mjmarble on Dec 11, 2008 12:20 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ESPN is busy figuring out how the Yankees today have apparently signed Sabathia and made offers to Lowe, Burnett, Sheets, and Pettite despite having already traded for Jake Peavy.

by xrickx on Dec 11, 2008 12:22 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ESPN finally has it here, and just put a link on the front page.

by vegaswatch on Dec 11, 2008 12:24 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It’s a weird trade, I’ll give you that but I’ve been trying to fall in love with Gutz for the better part of two seasons and I haven’t figured out how to do it.

His defense is truly great but we don’t have anything to do with an all-glove, no-bat OF and other teams know this. Additionally, I have to believe that’s how other teams view him. Optimism about his bat seems like Cleveland Pollyanna speak. Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? Hardly.

If you’re that taken with Gutz’ D how about this-the Indians just moved the team’s other truly superlative defender to the 2nd most important defensive position on the field. As opposed to keeping a premium defender at the 6th.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Shap thinks we’re going to get all the outs we just gave away right back from Astro. And more.

by afh4 on Dec 11, 2008 12:22 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if what the LL folks say about his defense is correct, your last two paragraphs are spot on. especially on our team, corner OF defense isn’t anywhere near as valuable as middle infield defense.

by APV on Dec 11, 2008 12:26 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If he is actually good at 2nd, not just adequate, how much fun is the 4 times we get to see Marte-Benzuela-Astro?

by afh4 on Dec 11, 2008 12:28 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Frank for Valbuena I don’t have a problem with. We needed a middle infielder, it was obvious we had to trade for him, and we got one by moving an outfielder instead of a pitcher. I have my worries about right field if Choo runs into trouble next year, but then I watched a partially mummified Trot Nixon play right field for most of 2007, so I can probably make do with whoever slots in there next.

I do wish the second player was somebody a little more exciting than Joe Smith. But if he can get the ball in the catcher’s mitt, that’s one less prospect we have to rely on out of the gate, and I know enough now to see that that’s a valuable thing.

by fleerdon on Dec 11, 2008 12:29 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’m actually sort of excited about Smith only in that he’s another bullet for the 12 chamber game of Russian Roulette we’re playing with the gun pointed at the rest of the division’s head.

All we need is for 4-5 of those chambers to have real bullets in and all the Oldberto bullets won’t matter. Smith is a potential bullet.

by afh4 on Dec 11, 2008 12:31 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is pretty meaningless, but I spoke to my Mets fan friends and they all say Smith is “incredible”

by Roger Dorn on Dec 11, 2008 12:32 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So true. Shap does not want the bullpen to be a weakness in 2009. That’s for sure.

by cclemens31 on Dec 11, 2008 12:32 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, he’s young, he’s healthy, he gets ground balls. Could be worse. I acknowledge I’m jaded by FrankLove. And also by the fact that the M’s got like 40 guys.

by fleerdon on Dec 11, 2008 12:35 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The M’s gave up Putz.

Am I the only one who thinks it might make sense for the Mets?

The Mets need to win in the next two years if they’re going to do it in the Santana window (which is their best window) and, frankly, a health gamble on Frankie and Putz makes some sense with their pockets.

Running a team with money is just, well, different. And I don’t think they gave all that much up.

by afh4 on Dec 11, 2008 12:37 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don’t disagree with that in the slightest. I just can’t help but feel jilted by comparison. It’s like some sort of reverse hostage situation. Every half hour the Mets announce the name of a different prospect they’re sending to Seattle.

by fleerdon on Dec 11, 2008 12:39 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Eh. My brother sort of cooled me down on Valbuena. I still think this is an okay move for the following reasons:
1.) I’m drinking GLBC xmas ale
2.) it is decisive – and I think there is something to be said for being confident on a path
3.) it’s Shapiro, he deserves benefit of the doubt
4.) Gutz is probably a 90-100 ops+ guy
5.) we have thedoor+Brantely
6.) the sheer probability of having decent relief pitching.

I’m iffy because Valbuena is a little bit too gritty. I think moving Gutz was fait acompli, and I’m glad to see it done. He was the cool girlfriend who you knew you had to dump sooner or later. Valbuena has good plate discipline and is young and can field. He’s at least adequate.

by joeee on Dec 11, 2008 2:03 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Valbuena is white?

by Jay on Dec 11, 2008 4:04 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the girl/dating analogies are running rampant these days. i’m enjoying them.

by Brick. on Dec 11, 2008 9:42 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think the Indians are making an effort to find players who have a balanced approach. I think they’re eschewing the free swingers in favor of guys like Mills, Chisenhall, Brantley, and Carlos Santana. LaPorta has the slugger label, but he’ll take a walk too. No Alex Escobars and no Franklin Gutierrezes.

by xrickx on Dec 11, 2008 12:30 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, that much seems clear. It’s been a long, long time since the Indians sought out a player who didn’t have the typical Cleveland plate approach.

by afh4 on Dec 11, 2008 12:32 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i don’t know that Frank was a target so much as the best we could do given that whatsisface was getting bounced. Viewed from that perspective it’s possible we did ridiculously well.

by fleerdon on Dec 11, 2008 12:32 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’m flattered to be be accused of being polyannish. In real life I’m a junior curmudgeon.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 11, 2008 12:34 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In Shapiro We Trust.

by mjschaefer on Dec 11, 2008 12:25 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I like it. I know nothing about the guys that the tribe is getting in return. But I feel that the FO has done an excellent job in getting ready players out of other teams minor league systems. (Well except for Marte). The best players that they have received had the least amount of hype.

And hey, I’ll take as many slick fielding middle infielders that I can get out of Seattle’s system. Has worked pretty well so far.

by oxforddave on Dec 11, 2008 12:27 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I like it. There’s no reason to think his 2008 numbers aren’t legit, and those numbers suggest he’s a middle infielder who will get on base and provide (according to LL) plus defense. That’s good.

by APV on Dec 11, 2008 12:31 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’m right there with you. I love the model of acquiring ML ready or near ML ready prospects. It’s the ultimate small market move-even though Gutz was cheap and young, we still got cheaper and younger.

This and the Brantley move are going to end up mattering, I think. These guys can make a difference very quickly.

The dutchboy has more thumbs than he did a couple of hours ago.

by afh4 on Dec 11, 2008 12:34 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

There was also a game against the Reds or Nationals or maybe even both, where he essentially won us the game with a catch in rightfield

by Roger Dorn on Dec 11, 2008 12:33 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It was against the Cards in interleague (right?) that I remember him catching the ball and then plowing into some metal grating.

by afh4 on Dec 11, 2008 12:35 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I am feeling Reds in 2008 and Nats in 2007, but that is stricly off memory

by Roger Dorn on Dec 11, 2008 12:36 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You’re right, Nats was 2007 I think. My memory isn’t that good.

by Pronk33 on Dec 11, 2008 12:43 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Reds

Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.

by Gradyforpresident on Dec 11, 2008 12:36 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

in 07, I think.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 11, 2008 12:51 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I was at the Nationals game where he made that catch. That was the same one where Victor hit a late-inning homer to win it. Great game.

by Pronk33 on Dec 11, 2008 12:37 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think I was at that game. Isn’t that the game where Borowski got the save on Vic (or Shop?) picking the guy off at third?

by afh4 on Dec 11, 2008 12:38 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Like, everyone was at that game. Jay was there. Chuck. Turk. DrErikBrady. I met up with a few people. You may have been one of them…?

by afh4 on Dec 11, 2008 12:42 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i joined you guys late, no?

by APV on Dec 11, 2008 12:43 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Maybe? It’s hard for me because I only saw everyone briefly. Some guys came to my section, then got thrown out, then I went up to there section and got accosted by Jay a lot.

by afh4 on Dec 11, 2008 12:44 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah…i joined in the 7th or 8th…just as the rally started.

by APV on Dec 11, 2008 12:46 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We were all a little dubious meeting one another, but you were the most dubious if memory serves, Andrew the least. Jhon (then known as homelytourist) and LeftyCatcher were there, too. I believe Jhon snuck in without paying in the middle of the game.

by Jay on Dec 11, 2008 4:08 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I remember Jhon doing that. And I kept asking him if it was because he was an architect or something. I’m sure that line of questioning wasn’t annoying.

by afh4 on Dec 11, 2008 9:18 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I biked to the park, bummed a cigarette from at the ballpark, and I ran into someone from High School who bought me a beer. Totally free day. My finances were in bad shape at the time. Architecture don’t pay well, see.

Oh, and I’m not a licensed architect, and I’m not sure I’ll ever be. There’s probably a foreign country in which I’m qualified. Anyway, I do most of the things a real architect does, but I can’t sign the drawings.

Those were a good couple days. It was hot as hell. We were all sweating a lot. In one weekend we saw a beautiful win and a discouraging loss. So much emotion. So much sweat.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 11, 2008 11:36 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Architecture doesn’t pay me well, that is. I do mostly residential work—kinda by accident—and we’re hurting pretty bad.
It can pay.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 11, 2008 12:03 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nay. I am still reveling in the anonyimity (sp?) of the internet

by Roger Dorn on Dec 11, 2008 12:44 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Are you joking? I went to the series and skipped this game. The only win and I skipped it.

by mjschaefer on Dec 11, 2008 12:47 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I actually wasn’t at that game. I went to the game after that where we lost.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Dec 11, 2008 9:56 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

it was nice weather, though

by APV on Dec 11, 2008 5:08 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, and fun times

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Dec 11, 2008 10:32 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If anything I think this reflects how excited we should be for the return of Odd year Betancourt.

by mjschaefer on Dec 11, 2008 12:34 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200806092880532&c_id=cle

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 11, 2008 12:54 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

apparently the URL stays the same when you click a new one.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 11, 2008 12:55 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

does this spell the end of omar possibly coming back?

by Brick. on Dec 11, 2008 12:33 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Omar doesn’t come back, he gets reincarnated.

by Pronk33 on Dec 11, 2008 12:35 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Shapiro, on Valbuena:

We have a need for middle infielders at the upper level of our minor league system.

by xrickx on Dec 11, 2008 12:33 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Our Columbus team is going to kick ass. Time to buy season tickets now.

by Toxicadam on Dec 11, 2008 12:35 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Glad to see he’s embraced Midwestern understatement.

by fleerdon on Dec 11, 2008 12:36 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Putz is pissed.

“He’s one of the top five or 10 closers in the game,” [agent Craig] Landis said. “No, he would not want to be a set-up man.”

by xrickx on Dec 11, 2008 12:35 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That might be a problem…

by afh4 on Dec 11, 2008 12:38 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Putz doesn’t read Bill James.

by Brick. on Dec 11, 2008 12:39 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   1 recs

Hopefully he hasn’t checked the internets the past few days.

by cclemens31 on Dec 11, 2008 12:39 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Mets are screwed up. Their fans should be pissed.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 11, 2008 12:39 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ummm…this would seem to be a problem.

by Ryan on Dec 11, 2008 12:54 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dear Mets,

Take these comments to heart and say a couple of the guys failed their physicals and the deal is off.

Just my three cents.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 11, 2008 12:57 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

… or convince K-Rod to set up, pronto.

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Dec 11, 2008 2:01 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

When I first read the details of the trade, I was thinking, “Don’t WE need Putz more than NYM?”

by JulioBernazard on Dec 11, 2008 1:51 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

a. No.
b. Who buys two expensive closers? It’s stupid.
c. It’s only one year, he’ll survive the ordeal of pitching in the 8th.
d. They should annoint him as the first option in late-inning tie situations.

by Jay on Dec 11, 2008 4:09 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Woah. Not done with the thread yet, but everyone in the first thread liked it and everyone here hates it. What?

by Voltaire on Dec 11, 2008 12:36 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i think you need to re-read this thread

by APV on Dec 11, 2008 12:37 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In the next thread we deny it.

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 12:39 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

In the one after that we beg.

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 12:40 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

After that we sob ourselves into acceptance.

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 12:40 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I just got to the end. People became more optimistic. But I’m shocked, honestly, at how many people don’t like this.

by Voltaire on Dec 11, 2008 12:45 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well, someone’s gotta do it.

Reach across the aisle, Volt.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 11, 2008 12:48 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I just don’t think Gutz has enough stick to be anything more than a mediocre CF. People say that he’s now a starting ML CF, but put that in context. It’s for the Seattle Mariners.

by Voltaire on Dec 11, 2008 12:49 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They’re making strides though. Huge day for them. Dark day for the Mets. Hey, I don’t love the deal, but thank God I don’t have to root for that team.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 11, 2008 12:54 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It’s makes enough stick.

by NickFantana on Dec 11, 2008 12:08 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It has everything to do with what you think of Gutz and people have extremely varied opinions.

by afh4 on Dec 11, 2008 12:49 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah, and I guess I just don’t see that. That is, I don’t understand why people don’t just agree with me.

by Voltaire on Dec 11, 2008 12:50 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i love it big picture, don’t like it for 2009.

by Brick. on Dec 11, 2008 12:38 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think people are waiting for “the other shoe to drop” to determine how this trade plays out. Right now it seems to give us some flexibility for another trade to happen (Maybe this is just wishful thinking).

Also, if we are to assume that we are contenders in 2009, I don’t think this trade makes us a better team for 2009.

by Toxicadam on Dec 11, 2008 12:40 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If there’s anything we know from being Cleveland fans is that there’s always another shoe to drop. Usually, however, we are not the one dropping the shoe.

As for making us a better team in 2009, if Joe Smith is as good as the Mets fans think he is, we are improved. One less slot of fail on the Bullpen Wheel of Fortune. Remember this, everybody?

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Dec 11, 2008 9:26 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Circle of Trout?

Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.

by Gradyforpresident on Dec 11, 2008 11:39 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What will you have, Carp Or Trout?

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 11, 2008 12:58 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I like it. The only way this deal hurts Cleveland is if Sizemore goes out for an extended period of time.

The Indians gave away the player with the highest ceiling. But they got back the guy who actually produces. Joe Smith out right handed batters at an alarmingly effective rate: .192/.281/.302 last season with 45K in 182 ABs. Kerry Wood held RHB to a .227/ .276/.329 line. For comparison, Rafael Perez against lefties went .222/.300/.299 with 32K in 117 ABs.

Smith gets right handers out more frequently than Perez does lefties. Smith is just as dominant against righties as was Kerry Wood. Of course, Perez and Wood can also get out their opposite swinging foes while Smith struggles with the lefties. By no means am I saying Smith is better than Perez or Wood. But for that isolated skill set, it’s hard to find better than Smith.

by xrickx on Dec 11, 2008 12:44 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The point that we could have a negative image of Raffy Steel is pretty alluring.

by afh4 on Dec 11, 2008 12:45 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Why would that hurt? We’d be filling in with a first-round pick!

by fleerdon on Dec 11, 2008 12:45 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hmm…so does this mean we break the season with Peralta at 3B, Cabrera at SS, Carroll at 2B with Barfield as UI?

by APV on Dec 11, 2008 12:39 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Marte – Barf deathmatch in Arizona.

by Brick. on Dec 11, 2008 12:40 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You raise a good point though. Peralta would need the ability to transition positions midseason if we intended to bring up Valbuena at some point

by Roger Dorn on Dec 11, 2008 12:41 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

more seriously…I said in the other thread, I’d be surprised if Shapiro/Wedge set up a situation where Peralta would switch from SS to 3B mid-season. That would seem to advantage Barf over Marte,

by APV on Dec 11, 2008 12:41 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Think it could be resolved in Spring training?

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 11, 2008 12:42 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not to mention, doesn’t Barfield have another option?

by fleerdon on Dec 11, 2008 12:43 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oh yes he does, which doesn’t body well for him.

by Brick. on Dec 11, 2008 12:43 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

One left, I think.

by Pronk33 on Dec 11, 2008 12:45 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Like, maybe it depends on what Valbuena can do, as much as it does Barf and Marte showing some life in the Spring? Maybe they’ll just leave it open ended like that, doing their best to get Peralta equally ready in both spots.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 11, 2008 12:46 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Marte at 3B, Peralta SS, Cabrera at 2B, Carroll as UI?

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 11, 2008 12:41 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If things keep going as they have in the past day or so, we should have made 133 trades by the time the season starts. This team could look a lot different.

by cclemens31 on Dec 11, 2008 12:41 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think this is correct. Peralta has to play 3B from spring training and on.

by oxforddave on Dec 11, 2008 12:42 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I really think we’ll see Benzuela get a shot in ST and get a shot to rip through the IL.

I do think Peralta is a 3B now.

by afh4 on Dec 11, 2008 12:43 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Can you help me out with that nickname now, before I get confused and start calling him that?

by fleerdon on Dec 11, 2008 12:44 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It’s just nonsense. Letters that roll the same way as his actual name.

by afh4 on Dec 11, 2008 12:46 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Like Bictor.

"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter

by Denver Tribe Fan on Dec 11, 2008 1:16 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Or the Indians can take a flier on somebody like Grudzielanek knowing that they have the replacement in mind that potentially makes the move of Droobs and Jhonny a long-term thing.

by xrickx on Dec 11, 2008 12:45 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah they have the potential to make the weird old veteran “upside” signing with the idea that they can probably cut bait in June if they need to.

by afh4 on Dec 11, 2008 12:46 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This comment jives well with what Shapiro was quoted as saying. I haven’t made it to the end of the thread, so this comment may have been already made.

by NickFantana on Dec 11, 2008 12:12 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

put that in your pocket before i take it away.

by Brick. on Dec 11, 2008 12:46 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It has agreeable symmetry. He triggered the end of a previous era and could signal the beginning of the next. :)

by xrickx on Dec 11, 2008 12:49 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We had Angel Berroa?

by Jay on Dec 11, 2008 10:33 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I completely missed the joke until after I posted and then I felt like an idiot.

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Dec 11, 2008 10:51 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Eddie Gaedel!

Steel Nick

by nickjs21 on Dec 11, 2008 11:04 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don’t feel bad, Jeff Kent was kind of a headfake.

by Jay on Dec 11, 2008 4:37 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Speaking of which…is Mr. Kent interested in a million dollar, but incentive laden contract to be a big bat off the bench, and get spot starts all over the infield and maybe DH? Something along the lines of the Thomas contract.

by dgcambridge on Dec 11, 2008 7:35 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Doubtful. Really wanted to be playing in CA last time he signed, as I recall, and also very pointedly talked about how he didn’t want to play for much longer and would rather hang out with his family.

by Jay on Dec 11, 2008 8:26 PM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Greg LaRocca!

Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.

by Gradyforpresident on Dec 11, 2008 11:40 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good one. Casey Candelle

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 11, 2008 12:55 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

doh, I confused him with Luvullo. Wrong era. Nicely done fwembt.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 11, 2008 2:13 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Casey Blake!

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 11, 2008 1:01 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

is our roster at 40 now?

by Brick. on Dec 11, 2008 12:41 AM EST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

39

38 -1 (Gutz) + 2 (Smith, Valbuena)

by APV on Dec 11, 2008 12:42 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

jesus, i forgot to subtract gutz.

by Brick. on Dec 11, 2008 12:43 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no worries…we’ll be up to 40 when we select Alan Horne/Chris Lubanski in the rule 5 tomorrow

by APV on Dec 11, 2008 12:48 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

One spot left for Dunn. Excellent.

by mjschaefer on Dec 11, 2008 12:49 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Or Sheets / other?

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 11, 2008 12:50 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Now I don’t know what to think.

by mjschaefer on Dec 11, 2008 12:51 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Salivate loudly.

by afh4 on Dec 11, 2008 12:51 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You see alot of Dunn? I can’t fathom why your up on him.

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 12:51 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Not unless its national tv.

I find it hard to believe no one wants a guy that hits home runs and drives in runs. Our team is lacking in that department.

Basically he’s Pronk Insurance and he’d be miles better than either BenFran or Choo-Choo Train.

by mjschaefer on Dec 11, 2008 12:54 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dunn rocks. Career 130 OPS+ .247/.381/.518 last year. That’s great.

by Voltaire on Dec 11, 2008 12:56 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

For the record, here’s his age-similar players on B-Ref.

1. Darryl Strawberry (920)
   2. Jose Canseco (906)
   3. Harmon Killebrew (902) *
   4. Rocky Colavito (895)
   5. Reggie Jackson (889) *
   6. Troy Glaus (867)
   7. Tom Brunansky (865)
   8. Barry Bonds (861)
   9. Roger Maris (859)
  10. Boog Powell (859)

Dude is good. End of story.

by Voltaire on Dec 11, 2008 12:59 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah! I was just looking for this.

by mjschaefer on Dec 11, 2008 1:01 AM EST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs