Indians Deal Gutierrez in Three-Team Trade
The Indians have traded defensive whiz Franklin Gutierrez to the Seattle Mariners. They've received in return reliever Joe Smith from the New York Mets and minor-league middle infielder Luis Valbuena from Seattle. The Indians were the facilitators in this deal, with the main pieces involved being J.J. Putz and Aaron Heilman.
Mets get: RHP J.J. Putz, OF Jeremy Reed, RHP Sean Green
Mariners get: RHP Aaron Heilman, OF Endy Chavez, OF Franklin Gutierrez, 1B Matt Carp
Indians get: RHP Joe Smith, IF Luis Valbuena
My first reaction is that I don't like the deal.
about 3 years ago
Ryan
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Gutz is an odd man out in this trade. It’s mind-boggling to think of how this three-way was fostered.
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 10, 2008 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
me too
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Dec 10, 2008 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
There’s certainly risk involved, but then again, Gutz didn’t repeat his 2007 in 2008 either, which means he’s not a lock to produce in 2009.
Essentially, there’s no guarantee that Gutz’s value will go up in the coming seasons, and is probably more likely to go down, barring an offensive surgence we haven’t seen yet. Many have complained that Shapiro holds onto his prospects too long and doesn’t get anything for them. This time, he got a few pieces to address two key areas (bullpen and infield) for an OFer who never really developed as we expected. Additionally, he’s most valuable playing in CF, and he wasn’t going to do that as long as Grady is here.
I’ll miss Gutz too, and it remains to be seen whether this trade works out for us, but I think it’s a solid move by Shapiro to address two areas without giving up our most valuable trade chip (Shoppach), so it’s still possible we could address our starting rotation via a trade (maybe Ricky Nolasco or Josh Johnson from the Marlins, as they reportedly have interest in a young, cheap catcher).
Just my 2 cents.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
I probably value FG less than most here despite his incredible defense. I tend to place a major premium on hitting over fielding still, and despite FG’s flashes of potential, he was incredibly frustrating at the plate and probably would not have been able to seize a full time job with Choo’s emergence and LaPorta/Brantley waiting in the wings.
If you view Gutz as a part-time player, I think you have to move forward with this trade
But there’s that potential thing, and even if he continues to hit like he has, he’s a league average center fielder because of his defense.
I would have to imagine that Valbuena was the key to this thing, although what I’ve read projects him more as utility guy than a solution at second.
We’ve given up a better player than the ones we’ve received. Our better player was cheap and ready to contribute in a contending season.
I also am not pleased, but I am restraining my full dismay until I’ve had some time to contemplate this.
First impression: hate it.
Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF
Speaking of which, anybody want to make Joe Smith look better than I think he does?
by fleerdon on Dec 11, 2008 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
Tasty GB%, but he seems to have a case of the BBs.
by fleerdon on Dec 11, 2008 12:05 AM EST up reply actions
If he’s healthy, that’s another arm in there. 60+ OK innings from one reliever is harder to come by than i used to think.
Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF
I watched a lot of Mets games near the end of last season. In a bullpen that was clearly going through a desurgence, he was a reliable arm. I’m not ready to captian the S.S. Smith, but he’s could prove to be another option near the back end of the bullpen.
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
I just can’t get over the feeling that we didn’t get enough in return for a starting ML CF. Then again, I think Gutz’s hitting will improve. Overall, I think I need to sleep on it – but I agree I’m not impressed.
Still the local "Barfield Bounces Back Believer" and confident that Gutz will succeed in Seattle.
Hello Ryan,
Again, though, he wouldn’t play CF while Grady’s here, and Grady will be here in all likelihood until at least through the 2011 season, 3 more seasons. If Gutz does no better than he’s doing now, or gets worse, his value becomes that much less. In three years, I doubt we’d be able to get what we got for Gutz if we still had him then. And would we keep Gutz beyond that point? Doubtful. Brantley or some other OFer will likely and hopefully emerge by that point (when Sizemore may be gone).
I suspect Valbuena was a key part of the deal – his offense doesn’t look that impressive, but like Droobs, he was rushed, and he does play solid defense, so I suspect the Indians think he can fit in as a starter. They felt it was worth trading a player who likely would not get much better than he is now with us and who would not play his natural position for us while he was here.
Just my 2 cents.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
APV – Just confirming, he’s right up there with Carlos Rivero on that PTM scoring you and Jay did, right behind Santana?
If this leads to some secondary moves I’m cool with it.
I liked Franklin, but I wasn’t in love with him like some of you.
I thought we had something. The way he dove for liners to RF and I drank copious amounts of beer while cheering him on. How do you break something that beautiful apart?
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 12:28 AM EST up reply actions
Don’t forget the bi-monthly fastballs ripped deep in to the bleachers. sigh.
Don't forget to pay your parking ticket.
by TheVanillaGorilla on Dec 11, 2008 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
No. I’ll never forget. That was our bi-monthly thing!
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
Dave Cameron also has a post at LL in the top thread, not sure how to link it. He seems to really like Valbuena
Click the time/date stamp, then copy the URL.
by fleerdon on Dec 11, 2008 12:04 AM EST up reply actions
2007, Game 2, ALCS, 11th inning, Gutz nails the coffin shut with a 3 run homer.
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 12:04 AM EST reply actions
The Indians suddenly have a full bullpen, and perhaps an arm and Shoppach can be used to grab the SP the team really needs.
1. Wood
2. J-Lew
3. Raffy L
4. Raffy R
5. Masa
6. Joe Smith
7. Rundles
8. Miller
9. Meloan
10. Stevens
11. Mujica
If it’s even remotely like last year, that’s enough relievers to get us through April.
by fleerdon on Dec 11, 2008 12:06 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I see this list as six established relievers and five candidates for the seventh slot (and replacements).
And you forgot Tony Sipp.
I’m okay with losing Jensen. Just throwing that out there. Flawless closer + Shoppach, anyone?
Steel Nick
if we’re trading one of those top 10, no doubt I want Masa gone. #11 is dead in my mind.
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
I still don’t think espn.com has a clue.
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
There’s not BoSox or Yankees in this trade. what do you expect?
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
I liked the deal until it mentioned we are giving up minor leagueRS in addition. Look, they could be throw ins, but I have a feeling one of them won’t be.
I will miss Franky G already being parked at the warning track waiting for a smashed ball to land easily into his mitt .. I won’t miss those 2 for 30 slides he would go into 2-3 times in a season.
I was honestly hoping for an established 2b .. even if he was on the backside of his career.
don’t worry, from Castrovince
UPDATE No. 2 (11:50 p.m. ET): Holy Lord, this thing just keeps growing. It’s actually a 12-player swap, and it does involve other Minor Leaguers. Nobody from the Indians, though.
In addition to the players previously mentioned, the M’s are getting right-hander Maikel Cleto, left-hander Jason Vargas and outfielder Ezekiel Carrera from the Mets.
Wow.
As I noted above, their bullpen fell apart last season in ways that make even years in Cleveland look down right positive. I suppose with Putz setting up for K-Rod, they feel their problems in that area are solved. (Getting rid of Hielman probably helps a lot in that area too.)
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
I had a little trouble with the syntactic ambiguity of the word “even” there
by Logodaedalus on Dec 11, 2008 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Pete Abraham is reporting (haven’t seen this elsewhere) that the three minor leaguers that get you from nine players to 12 are all NYM prospects that I hadn’t heard of.
Carp can eat anything—including innings!!!
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
Wha…???
Still the local "Barfield Bounces Back Believer" and confident that Gutz will succeed in Seattle.
Yeah, pretty much.
I would tend to believe him because he’s there and they probably literally announced it in the press room, but he could have just mistyped.
If we’re getting Carp, I don’t know what we’re going to do with him – we have as many 1B options as we do bullpen arms:
Garko
Hafner (though he really can’t play it, but I’ll list him anyway)
Martinez
Aubrey
LaPorta
Hodges
Mills
Weglarz (did play 1B originally, so it’s not out of the question)
That’s partly why we left Brown off the 40-man roster – if Carp’s involved, you would think another move is probably in order involving one of the above, plus perhaps Shoppach for a starting pitcher.
Just my 2 cents.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
who now has to cover 80% of the ground.
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
Which is what he always did when Gutz wasn’t in.
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, Dunn shouldn’t even be mentioned in this thread.
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
Why? Choo and Grady are fine. Francisco is the only issue. If Crowe is needed, he’s fine on the corners.
Gutz’ defense will be missed. I look at it like this, though…there are few standout 2B. Orlando Hudson is great because he can post an OPS+ of 102, 108, and 106 the last three years at 2B and play good defense? Ronnie Belliard posted 106 and 107 OPS+ marks in his two full seasons. But is the defense really worth the extra cash?
I just don’t think there’s that far of a cliff from being a good 2B to being league average. Why not pay above market at other positions to get good players who actually make an impact? Leave Valbuena at 2B, see if he can OPS+ between 90-100, and try and get big guns at the positions where the big guns are actually available.
Grady and Choo are fine, as mentioned, and BenFran is better than both Dunn and Dellucci in the OF.
I don’t know why you guys keep thinking BenFran is horrible in the OF – he’s not. Is he as good as Gutz? No, but he’s hardly a butcher out there. BenFran did play all 3 OF positions pretty solidly in the Indians’ Minor League system for a number of years, so I think he can handle LF without too much trouble (and better than Dellucci, so I’ll take BenFran out there).
In other words, we could do worse out there than BenFran.
Just my 2 cents.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
I don’t know about the rest of you, but I saw Francisco get late jumps on balls and take some pretty bad routes. He definitely has a plus arm, though.
by woodsmeister on Dec 11, 2008 9:04 AM EST up reply actions
As part of the deal, Putz agreed to change his name to Juan Jesus.
by Toxicadam on Dec 11, 2008 12:11 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Don’t hate the deal, but I still don’t quite get it either (I was waiting for a follow-up before the deal was confirmed). I think I’ll have to hear Shapiro’s press pending press conference and find out what his plans for Valbuena are before I decide.
Seattle visitors. GUTZ IS A HARD WORKER AND YA’LL WILL LOVE HIM*
*A running LGT joke, but really, it’s said that he’s a hard worker—they’ve seemingly been coaching him to death trying to ‘mold’ him as a hitter. Interestingly, the game seems to come so easily to him, just based on watching him. He might be better suited to your West Coast mojo. Enjoy. He is a unique talent who I’ve always pulled for.
Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF
The trade was confirmed an hour ago and still no word on ESPN. Have the monkey’s taken over again over there?
Still the local "Barfield Bounces Back Believer" and confident that Gutz will succeed in Seattle.
It’s a weird trade, I’ll give you that but I’ve been trying to fall in love with Gutz for the better part of two seasons and I haven’t figured out how to do it.
His defense is truly great but we don’t have anything to do with an all-glove, no-bat OF and other teams know this. Additionally, I have to believe that’s how other teams view him. Optimism about his bat seems like Cleveland Pollyanna speak. Is it possible? Sure. Is it likely? Hardly.
If you’re that taken with Gutz’ D how about this-the Indians just moved the team’s other truly superlative defender to the 2nd most important defensive position on the field. As opposed to keeping a premium defender at the 6th.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Shap thinks we’re going to get all the outs we just gave away right back from Astro. And more.
if what the LL folks say about his defense is correct, your last two paragraphs are spot on. especially on our team, corner OF defense isn’t anywhere near as valuable as middle infield defense.
Frank for Valbuena I don’t have a problem with. We needed a middle infielder, it was obvious we had to trade for him, and we got one by moving an outfielder instead of a pitcher. I have my worries about right field if Choo runs into trouble next year, but then I watched a partially mummified Trot Nixon play right field for most of 2007, so I can probably make do with whoever slots in there next.
I do wish the second player was somebody a little more exciting than Joe Smith. But if he can get the ball in the catcher’s mitt, that’s one less prospect we have to rely on out of the gate, and I know enough now to see that that’s a valuable thing.
by fleerdon on Dec 11, 2008 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
I’m actually sort of excited about Smith only in that he’s another bullet for the 12 chamber game of Russian Roulette we’re playing with the gun pointed at the rest of the division’s head.
All we need is for 4-5 of those chambers to have real bullets in and all the Oldberto bullets won’t matter. Smith is a potential bullet.
Well, he’s young, he’s healthy, he gets ground balls. Could be worse. I acknowledge I’m jaded by FrankLove. And also by the fact that the M’s got like 40 guys.
by fleerdon on Dec 11, 2008 12:35 AM EST up reply actions
The M’s gave up Putz.
Am I the only one who thinks it might make sense for the Mets?
The Mets need to win in the next two years if they’re going to do it in the Santana window (which is their best window) and, frankly, a health gamble on Frankie and Putz makes some sense with their pockets.
Running a team with money is just, well, different. And I don’t think they gave all that much up.
Don’t disagree with that in the slightest. I just can’t help but feel jilted by comparison. It’s like some sort of reverse hostage situation. Every half hour the Mets announce the name of a different prospect they’re sending to Seattle.
by fleerdon on Dec 11, 2008 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
Eh. My brother sort of cooled me down on Valbuena. I still think this is an okay move for the following reasons:
1.) I’m drinking GLBC xmas ale
2.) it is decisive – and I think there is something to be said for being confident on a path
3.) it’s Shapiro, he deserves benefit of the doubt
4.) Gutz is probably a 90-100 ops+ guy
5.) we have thedoor+Brantely
6.) the sheer probability of having decent relief pitching.
I’m iffy because Valbuena is a little bit too gritty. I think moving Gutz was fait acompli, and I’m glad to see it done. He was the cool girlfriend who you knew you had to dump sooner or later. Valbuena has good plate discipline and is young and can field. He’s at least adequate.
I think the Indians are making an effort to find players who have a balanced approach. I think they’re eschewing the free swingers in favor of guys like Mills, Chisenhall, Brantley, and Carlos Santana. LaPorta has the slugger label, but he’ll take a walk too. No Alex Escobars and no Franklin Gutierrezes.
i don’t know that Frank was a target so much as the best we could do given that whatsisface was getting bounced. Viewed from that perspective it’s possible we did ridiculously well.
by fleerdon on Dec 11, 2008 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
I like it. I know nothing about the guys that the tribe is getting in return. But I feel that the FO has done an excellent job in getting ready players out of other teams minor league systems. (Well except for Marte). The best players that they have received had the least amount of hype.
And hey, I’ll take as many slick fielding middle infielders that I can get out of Seattle’s system. Has worked pretty well so far.
I like it. There’s no reason to think his 2008 numbers aren’t legit, and those numbers suggest he’s a middle infielder who will get on base and provide (according to LL) plus defense. That’s good.
I’m right there with you. I love the model of acquiring ML ready or near ML ready prospects. It’s the ultimate small market move-even though Gutz was cheap and young, we still got cheaper and younger.
This and the Brantley move are going to end up mattering, I think. These guys can make a difference very quickly.
The dutchboy has more thumbs than he did a couple of hours ago.
There was also a game against the Reds or Nationals or maybe even both, where he essentially won us the game with a catch in rightfield
It was against the Cards in interleague (right?) that I remember him catching the ball and then plowing into some metal grating.
Reds
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Dec 11, 2008 12:36 AM EST up reply actions
I was at the Nationals game where he made that catch. That was the same one where Victor hit a late-inning homer to win it. Great game.
I think I was at that game. Isn’t that the game where Borowski got the save on Vic (or Shop?) picking the guy off at third?
Like, everyone was at that game. Jay was there. Chuck. Turk. DrErikBrady. I met up with a few people. You may have been one of them…?
Maybe? It’s hard for me because I only saw everyone briefly. Some guys came to my section, then got thrown out, then I went up to there section and got accosted by Jay a lot.
We were all a little dubious meeting one another, but you were the most dubious if memory serves, Andrew the least. Jhon (then known as homelytourist) and LeftyCatcher were there, too. I believe Jhon snuck in without paying in the middle of the game.
I remember Jhon doing that. And I kept asking him if it was because he was an architect or something. I’m sure that line of questioning wasn’t annoying.
I biked to the park, bummed a cigarette from at the ballpark, and I ran into someone from High School who bought me a beer. Totally free day. My finances were in bad shape at the time. Architecture don’t pay well, see.
Oh, and I’m not a licensed architect, and I’m not sure I’ll ever be. There’s probably a foreign country in which I’m qualified. Anyway, I do most of the things a real architect does, but I can’t sign the drawings.
Those were a good couple days. It was hot as hell. We were all sweating a lot. In one weekend we saw a beautiful win and a discouraging loss. So much emotion. So much sweat.
Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF
I actually wasn’t at that game. I went to the game after that where we lost.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 11, 2008 9:56 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, and fun times
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 11, 2008 10:32 PM EST up reply actions
http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?mid=200806092880532&c_id=cle
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
Shapiro, on Valbuena:
We have a need for middle infielders at the upper level of our minor league system.
Glad to see he’s embraced Midwestern understatement.
by fleerdon on Dec 11, 2008 12:36 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
“He’s one of the top five or 10 closers in the game,” [agent Craig] Landis said. “No, he would not want to be a set-up man.”
Dear Mets,
Take these comments to heart and say a couple of the guys failed their physicals and the deal is off.
Just my three cents.
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
When I first read the details of the trade, I was thinking, “Don’t WE need Putz more than NYM?”
by JulioBernazard on Dec 11, 2008 1:51 AM EST up reply actions
Woah. Not done with the thread yet, but everyone in the first thread liked it and everyone here hates it. What?
After that we sob ourselves into acceptance.
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
I just got to the end. People became more optimistic. But I’m shocked, honestly, at how many people don’t like this.
I just don’t think Gutz has enough stick to be anything more than a mediocre CF. People say that he’s now a starting ML CF, but put that in context. It’s for the Seattle Mariners.
I think people are waiting for “the other shoe to drop” to determine how this trade plays out. Right now it seems to give us some flexibility for another trade to happen (Maybe this is just wishful thinking).
Also, if we are to assume that we are contenders in 2009, I don’t think this trade makes us a better team for 2009.
If there’s anything we know from being Cleveland fans is that there’s always another shoe to drop. Usually, however, we are not the one dropping the shoe.
As for making us a better team in 2009, if Joe Smith is as good as the Mets fans think he is, we are improved. One less slot of fail on the Bullpen Wheel of Fortune. Remember this, everybody?
by woodsmeister on Dec 11, 2008 9:26 AM EST up reply actions
Circle of Trout?
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Dec 11, 2008 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
I like it. The only way this deal hurts Cleveland is if Sizemore goes out for an extended period of time.
The Indians gave away the player with the highest ceiling. But they got back the guy who actually produces. Joe Smith out right handed batters at an alarmingly effective rate: .192/.281/.302 last season with 45K in 182 ABs. Kerry Wood held RHB to a .227/ .276/.329 line. For comparison, Rafael Perez against lefties went .222/.300/.299 with 32K in 117 ABs.
Smith gets right handers out more frequently than Perez does lefties. Smith is just as dominant against righties as was Kerry Wood. Of course, Perez and Wood can also get out their opposite swinging foes while Smith struggles with the lefties. By no means am I saying Smith is better than Perez or Wood. But for that isolated skill set, it’s hard to find better than Smith.
Why would that hurt? We’d be filling in with a first-round pick!
by fleerdon on Dec 11, 2008 12:45 AM EST up reply actions
Hmm…so does this mean we break the season with Peralta at 3B, Cabrera at SS, Carroll at 2B with Barfield as UI?
more seriously…I said in the other thread, I’d be surprised if Shapiro/Wedge set up a situation where Peralta would switch from SS to 3B mid-season. That would seem to advantage Barf over Marte,
Not to mention, doesn’t Barfield have another option?
by fleerdon on Dec 11, 2008 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
I really think we’ll see Benzuela get a shot in ST and get a shot to rip through the IL.
I do think Peralta is a 3B now.
Can you help me out with that nickname now, before I get confused and start calling him that?
by fleerdon on Dec 11, 2008 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
Like Bictor.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Dec 11, 2008 1:16 AM EST up reply actions
Or the Indians can take a flier on somebody like Grudzielanek knowing that they have the replacement in mind that potentially makes the move of Droobs and Jhonny a long-term thing.
Yeah they have the potential to make the weird old veteran “upside” signing with the idea that they can probably cut bait in June if they need to.
This comment jives well with what Shapiro was quoted as saying. I haven’t made it to the end of the thread, so this comment may have been already made.
by NickFantana on Dec 11, 2008 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
It has agreeable symmetry. He triggered the end of a previous era and could signal the beginning of the next. :)
I completely missed the joke until after I posted and then I felt like an idiot.
by woodsmeister on Dec 11, 2008 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
Speaking of which…is Mr. Kent interested in a million dollar, but incentive laden contract to be a big bat off the bench, and get spot starts all over the infield and maybe DH? Something along the lines of the Thomas contract.
Greg LaRocca!
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Dec 11, 2008 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
You see alot of Dunn? I can’t fathom why your up on him.
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 12:51 AM EST up reply actions
Not unless its national tv.
I find it hard to believe no one wants a guy that hits home runs and drives in runs. Our team is lacking in that department.
Basically he’s Pronk Insurance and he’d be miles better than either BenFran or Choo-Choo Train.
For the record, here’s his age-similar players on B-Ref.
1. Darryl Strawberry (920)
2. Jose Canseco (906)
3. Harmon Killebrew (902) *
4. Rocky Colavito (895)
5. Reggie Jackson (889) *
6. Troy Glaus (867)
7. Tom Brunansky (865)
8. Barry Bonds (861)
9. Roger Maris (859)
10. Boog Powell (859)
Dude is good. End of story.
So you see him as a Hafner replacement? Garko replacement?
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 1:03 AM EST up reply actions
Do you think Vic. Gark, Travis and Dunn fit on the same team?
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 1:07 AM EST up reply actions
What am I hating? I’m trying to make things fits. I’m a Tetris fan.
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 1:11 AM EST up reply actions
C-Victor
1b-Dunn
2b- Barf/New guy with funny name/Carroll
3b- Peralta
SS- Droobs
LF- LaPorta/Dunn/Ben Fran
CF-24
RF-BenFran-Choo platoon
DH-Hafner
We still have David Dellucci (I know this sucks)
Depending on the 2B and if LaPorta is ready I could see this working. And if it results in the loss of Garko…I wouldn’t shed a tear.
If we can only do one more thing, what do we do?
I’d trade for a starter. One we (or I) haven’t thought of.
Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF
I actually think Rick might be wrong and we make a sub 4 million dollar MI signing or else get a decent NRI in there.
I don’t think we’ll get a starter. Shapiro is generally extremely candid and he said there wasn’t enough money to fill two needs.
While we’ve all sat around talking about trading Shop, I don’t think he’s ever been available. It was Gutz they decided on and they’re keeping Shoppach.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Shapiro thinks we’re not going to see a lot of Garko at 1B next year.
And I think it’s very possible you might be right, because I don’t see any available starter. Sonnanstine is staying put now that Edwin Jackson got dealt, not that the Indians had interest in Sonnanstine. Greinke is going to be really expensive and I’m not sure the Royals would deal him to Cleveland. What other young guy is worth it?
Sanchez is worth a flier. I’d do KDLC plus some pieces for him. Not that the Giants would want that.
If the Indians are going with Valbuena at 2B, they still have $7M to spend before they get to $80M in payroll.
It was a typo up there, btw. I agree with you re: Grudz.
Shap’s going to do what he always does, which is leave that 7M to potentially put us over the top during the real time to make moves, after 60 games. He’s done it consistently and I think he does it systematically. He wants to be able to add Kenny Lofton type pieces at will if he needs to.
It’s a good hedge. What can I say? I’m a risk taker. I like upside. I dislike practical mediocrity. A high upside NRI would make me feel a lot better.
Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF
I dislike practical mediocrity
Definitely with ya on that one
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 11, 2008 10:16 AM EST up reply actions
By the way, yet another incredible example of the Shapiro Furtiveness Effect.
We all knew Gutz made sense to be on the block but nobody actually knew he was on the block. Incredible.
Shappy once killed a man just to watch him die.
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 11, 2008 12:53 AM EST up reply actions
Heck, he played for the Cavs just last season.
by Ryan on Dec 11, 2008 12:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
With that 6’ 10" frame and long arms, he gets a lot of downward action on his pitches, hence all the ground balls.
by woodsmeister on Dec 11, 2008 9:34 AM EST up reply actions
One of the Four Horseman hath returned
Pestilence and Plague comes next. Then disease and ab crunches.
That guy’s comment kind of makes me hope Gutz fails miserably at the plate in Seattle.
by cleveland teamer on Dec 11, 2008 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
Wait, wft? E5 is an LGT guy? And a Red Sox fan? Now I’m just confused.
by cleveland teamer on Dec 11, 2008 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
i forgot about that one
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Dec 11, 2008 2:56 AM EST up reply actions
WTF. I go off line for a few hours and LGT explodes and it’s not even about Wood?!
Btw, no 3 way and Wood jokes. Come on guys!
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Dec 11, 2008 1:15 AM EST reply actions
Sucks to say goodbye to Gutz as I was just growing attached to him a bit (only took 3 seasons).
But this seems to confirm a real chance that Peralta will be shifted to 3rd. I know he’s been playing there in Dominican ball but I just didnt think the FO or Wedge would really try it as a big roll of the dice is involved.
And as far the bullpen, i cant complain when you get another arm.
Spring training plan seems to be: get 2 dozen arms, throw against the wall, see what sticks. (if wood doesnt stick due to injury, melt down into hysterics, blame FO)
As General Manager of this team, I demand to know when I'm getting a start.
The most interesting part of this is that if Valbuena heads to AAA to start the season, there’s no place for Barfield in Columbus.
2B on the ML team?
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 11, 2008 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
Are you guys serious? I just Z’d through 500 comments when I got home, it’s TWO IN THE MORNING, and I get to the bottom and there’s a NEW THREAD with 280 comments?! BALLS. I have to read because if I close it I won’t be able to Z through.
Trades are fun.
Steel Nick
Has anyone suggested that we trade Jhonny yet? So many wild implications. Oh, it is is 2 am. Dammit.
Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF
It’s strange. With Shap you kind of expect every deal to be a droobs/choo (let alone grady/lee/phillips) like fleecing. I think this deal is actually okay, but I’m just a little spoiled.
So I’m undecided so far. I trust Shapiro, which is awesome when your GM just throws a wrench in everything and the worst reaction is “Eh.” And I loved Gutz. Hard. Still do. In fact, I may now buy a shirt with his name on it after he’s already gone.
Anyway at about midnight-ish Minaya and Shapiro had a presser on ESPNNews. I wasn’t at my place and the TV was on mute but I paid attention as much as I could and when Shap took the podium I called a halt to proceedings and turned it up. He had very kind words for Omar and Jack, he said they were all very familiar with each other’s players and this developed very quickly. It kind of sounds like they just kept throwing names in until everyone was satisfied. I’m paraphrasing Shapiro: “Next year I hope we’re all here talking about what a great deal this turned out to be for all three of us.”
Steel Nick
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