Mark Shapiro was targeting several closers going into last week's winter meetings. Kerry Wood and J.J. Putz were two of them.
The Mariners wanted Franklin Gutierrez and one of the Indians' top five prospects for Putz. He'll make $5 million in 2009 with a club option worth an estimated $9.1 million in 2010. The Indians would have exercised the option if they acquired Putz.
Wood, unlike Putz, was a free agent. All he cost was money ...
... [but then the Mets got involved, etc.] ...
Shapiro, as a result, left the winter meetings Thursday with Wood as his closer, Smith guaranteed a spot in the bullpen and Seattle infielder Luis Valbuena in the mix at second base ...
On top of that, Shapiro kept his top prospects instead of sending one to Seattle along with Gutierrez for Putz.
If Shapiro had made the deal for Putz, he would have saved between $3.5 million and $4 million in the two closers' contracts, but he wouldn't have had Smith, Valbuena and the prospect.
A really solid piece of explication from Paul Hoynes.
over 3 years ago
Jay
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I think we have a theme for the first LGT T-shirt here. A picture of Shapiro and Antonetti with the caption “Our Best Players Wear Suits” and the LGT logo.
by woodsmeister on Dec 15, 2008 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
With Shap and Ant maybe posing like the Blues Brothers
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 15, 2008 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
“It’s a hundred and sixty-two games till the playoffs, we got a roster full of talent, half the payroll of the Tigers, it’s snowing in April, and our polos are buttoned to the top. Hit it”
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 17, 2008 12:02 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Finally, Shapiro did think about acquiring Putz and Wood, but didn’t want to spend all his off-season funds on one part of the team.
I think Shapiro should have thought more about doing this. And then done it.
Except that, despite what Hoynes says, Shapiro never does deals like that … though I guess he could have swallowed four years of Gootz for two years of Pootz. It’s the “top prospect” that was killing him.
I think if 2008 proved anything, it’s that offseason looks “on paper” can be very misleading. That said, it seems like there are still far too many question marks, mostly about our own makeup, to form much of an opinion. Good news: we’ve only gotten stronger and we were one of the best teams after the break last year. So, I’m excited.
No. Not really. Our catching depth may be the best. Our bullpen looks solid. Our outfield looks good too.
But our rotation and infield are completely unsettled. I wouldn’t even know who to truly pencil at any infield position other than SS right now. Additionally, who’s your 4th and 5th starter?
On paper, we’re still incomplete as far as I’m concerned. On paper, I think the Tigers only look worse at catching and bullpen.
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 15, 2008 9:06 AM EST up reply actions
I know who I want at SS. Obviously, it will either be Asdrubal or Jhonny, but it’s not 100% clear they’re gonna move Peralta just because he’s playing 3rd in winter ball. As far as the rest of the infield goes, it doesn’t appear clear what the FO wants to do. I don’t think they really know yet. There’s still too much time for them to pick up a 2B or 3B between now and Spring Training. If they do there will likely be some position battles in ST at other positions from all the shuffling.
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 15, 2008 10:07 AM EST up reply actions
Right, our roster is so up in the air we don’t even know who will start at SS. Couple that with the question marks in the rotation and we’re going to have the most competitive ST in a long time.
Maybe a competitive spring training where guys are battling for slots will actually make this team ready to play baseball in April and May so they don’t dig themselves deep into a hole, as has been the pattern during the Wedge Era.
by woodsmeister on Dec 15, 2008 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
And, hopefully, none of those players are off playing in the WBC while they should be in AZ fighting for a spot and giving Wedge and Shapiro a good, long look.
On one hand, I love the idea of the World Baseball Classic, but I really hate the timing. Does anyone want to see our reliever come in in long relief, or see our position players ride pine? If any players make it to the finals, they will end up with about a week in the big league camp (after playing high intensity baseball with a completely different team make-up.) Pitcher fatigue was a major concern for mangers after the last WBC.
Slot battles in Spring Training 2009 could be far more complicated than we know.
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 15, 2008 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
I still dig it.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 15, 2008 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
Actually yeah, more like that
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 15, 2008 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
I had the same bias for a while, but the team really hasn’t suffered from poor start syndrome since 2005.
Year__April+March Record__April+March W__Overall RS W
2003__7-20__.259__.420
2004__9-13__.409__.494
2005__9-14__.391__.574
2006__13-12__.520__.481
2007__14-8__.636__.593
2008__13-15__.464__.500
Expanding that to May shrinks the differences some.
Year__Thru May W__Overall RS W
2003__.396__.420
2004__.458__.494
2005__.500__.574
2006__.500__.481
2007__.634__.593
2008__.455__.500
The difference between 03-05 and 06-08 probably shows some improvement by Wedge. Thru May records between 03-05 sum to 68-83 (.450) while total record 03-05 was 241-245 (.496) for a 0.046 difference. The difference for 06-08 records was 255-231 (525) minus 84-75 (.528) equals -0.003.
So, hopefully, that early slumping is behind us. If we get off to a slow start, however, just completely ignore this and start yelling at Wedge. I’ll be sure to do the same.
I think we have plenty of possibilities for the 4th and 5th starter spot, and they will sort themselves out—the real question is the third spot in the rotation. I know that you knew that; I’m just posting this for emphasis of what I think is the biggest piece we’re missing.
i’m saying Reyes, Laffey, and Jackson, until Huff is ready/service time questions allow him to come up
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Dec 15, 2008 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
with Scott Lewis being the first in line in case one of them falters/gets injured before June (again, because of Huff’s service time issues)
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Dec 15, 2008 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Longoria contract for Huff, anyone?
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
Reyes is a lock, because he’s out of options, and Laffey is pretty close to a lock.
That leaves Sowers, Lewis, Jackson, and Huff to battle for the fifth spot. Jackson’s out of options, but he’s probably the least talented of the four.
I foresee Jackson starting the year as the 5th guy and being on a short leash, unless he is just awful in spring training. We could see a lot of movement between Columbus and Cleveland for the 4-5 spots this year
Baring spring injury, I don’t see Jackson getting the leash. I think the Brewers were done with him, and he was a throw-in just so Cleveland had an extra arm to fill Sabathia’s spot when everyone was injured.
Lee, Carmona, Laffey, Reyes, and Sowers/Lewis to start in Cleveland unless the Indians find a way to trade for a starter.
Columbus’ rotation fills out with Sowers/Lewis, Huff. Ryan Edell/Kevin Dixon, Frank Herrmann, and Tomo Ohka.
Sounds about right. I’d rather go with Sowers, just because I think it would be worse for his confidence to not break with the club.
To me, it seems inconsistent with what we know about this organization to characterize any of its acquisitions as “throw-ins.” They’re always talking about maximizing their roster-spot use through the organization. I mean, it’s apparent from the Brantley-Greene gentleman’s agreement that Shaponetti maximized the return on Sabathia. And the Brewers may well have needed another depth starter last season; all their games mattered. If the idea was just to get one more guy, why not another low-level reliever? Why the AAA, #5 starter?
Look, clearly I’ve got a bit of a soft spot for Jackson. I said last season that I have higher hopes for him than I do for Reyes, and I’ll stand by that, because why not. But my only point here is that I think the Indians wanted him specifically. If they didn’t, well, the Brewers had no particular reason to give him away that I’m aware of, and the Indians were playing irrelevant baseball.
that’s a long-hand way of saying, I don’t think he’s dreck, because I don’t think the Indians do dreck.
by fleerdon on Dec 15, 2008 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
I remember reading a Hoynes column awhile back that stated that there’s certain front office execs like Jackson the best out of all of our “depth” starters and think he might be a steal.
Take it with a grain of salt of course.
by world dictator on Dec 16, 2008 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
I think it’s going to be Lee, Carmona, Reyes, Laffey, Sowers. And I think Jackson will be in the pen as a long man waiting for the “Breslow Boot”
Reyes is intriguing, but I don’t like his fangraphs profile — his fastball’s slowing down and his off-speed stuff is speeding up. Add to that the biomechanical issues Boddy brought up and I don’t see a whole lot of reason for optimism.
I’ll grant you that I know exactly squat about this sort of thing, except that more separation is better than less.
by fleerdon on Dec 15, 2008 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
i’m not projecting their hall of fame chances. i just think that’s where guys will be on oppening day provided all healthy and no new trades/signings happen.
I don’t dispute that he’s going to open the season in the rotation, I just don’t like his chances.
by fleerdon on Dec 15, 2008 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
Jackson should get a fourth option year for 2009, since he’s only played in four full seasons as a pro.
I don’t think Shapiro would have acquired him if he were out of options.
by Jay on Dec 16, 2008 8:37 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
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