It's official — Sabathia is a jackass

Look, it doesn't matter what his reasons were. It doesn't matter if he's a great family man and loves his kids and all that. It doesn't matter that he earned the right, or that most players go to the highest bidder.
You sign with the Yankees, you're a jackass. It's that simple.
C.C. Sabathia is a jackass. Him and that all-time great douchebag, Roger Clemens.
After being introduced today as a Yankee, Sabathia trotted out the usual jackass trope: "When it came down to it, really thinking about what I wanted, having the chance to win every year. That's something that I talk about all the time. That's the bottom line for me. There really was no other place to go."
No other place to go? There were plenty of other places to go, highly competitive teams that will fight the good fight to get to the postseason, that will compete for a championship.
What C.C. is really saying: "I want to have the postseason gift-wrapped like a special gift for me, every single year. I don't want to have to compete for it and earn it."
The Brewers and Indians will compete for the postseason. Every player will have to kick and scratch. The Yankees will not compete; they'll just buy it.
A real competitor doesn't want to win with unfair advantage; he wants to compete on a level playing field. Star players don't go to the Yankees to "compete," they're going there for the loaded dice — and for the cash, of course. They don't want to have to earn postseason berths; they want titles handed to them on a silver platter. They don't want to get paid to get to the playoffs, they want to get paid to go to the playoffs.
There were plenty of places to go, but only one place where Sabathia wouldn't have to compete fairly. He will just be handed a certain measure of success, one befitting a player of his (ahem) stature.
Here's one final good-bye, then, C.C. We had a great run together. You gave us some great seasons, the best career of any Indians pitcher since Sudden Sam. You left us with a nice little cache of prospects, too.
But you're just another jackass now.
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My initial comment in that Clemens thread is, I think, my most substantial contribution to this site. I really hated Clemens’ comments then and I hate Sabathia’s now.
I don’t get why they have to parrot this nonsense. Can’t they just smile, say they’re happy to be there, and go play?
What’s incredible is that the Yankees don’t even offer the best chance to compete every year any more-the Red Sox do. The Sox combine a little less money with a lot more brains.
Dammit, just beat me to the punch, Jay.
BOOOOOO CC
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 18, 2008 3:50 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Two days before Sabathia made his decision, Reggie Jackson had been in Las Vegas at the winter meetings as part of the Yankees delegation that met with the left-hander. Sabathia, who grew up in the Bay Area, found himself distracted by the presence of the Hall of Famer: “I was just thinking, ‘Would it be weird to ask [Jackson] for an autograph?’”
Ever ask Grady for his autograph, CC? Because he’s better.
by afh4 on Dec 18, 2008 4:03 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
Yeah, after almost pleading for a National League team to get into the ballpark of what the Yankees offered, after sitting on the initial offer for what, three weeks, and after he exacted a “Yankee Tax” and an opt-out after three seasons, it’s pretty apparent New York was in his mind the only place to go.
Enjoy the money, and all the baggage that’s gonna come with it, CC.
by Ryan on Dec 18, 2008 4:04 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Are you guys surprised by any of this? I thought it was as clear as the nose on Barry Manilow’s face that this cazzi scemo would sign with the Yanks
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
Surprised? No. Was I positive this was going to happen? No. I don’t even attempt to predict how a man I know literally nothing about will act, positively or negatively. Anybody who thinks they can read the soundbites of athletes, watch them on tv, and have a predictive knowledge of their personalities is kidding themselves.
I think if it was any other offseason, he’d have gone somewhere else. The discrepancy between what New York can pay this year and what others can is even more ridiculous than normal.
It’s simple: the Yanks have a $1.3B mortgage they have to pay for, they’ve jacked up the ticket prices, and the only way to put fannies in the seats is to have a pennant winning club. Stunod and Cashman had to sign CC – they bet the ranch on their young studs last year and it all turned to bovine excrement. They had to sign CC and AJ – it was clear as early as the spring of ‘07 that this was gonna happen. All the strum und drang about where CC was going in ’09 was a waste of electrons and printer’s ink.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
I don’t think it was clear until the economy failed. Barring that, I think there was a decent chance the Angels or LAD got close enough.
But, it happened.
Speaking of the economy failing and baseball – this maybe an opportunity. Perhaps the only way to bring baseball back as a competitive sport is for the Yankees to go bankrupt. It could happen given how leveraged they are and in need of a $256m tax break. Of course if this does happen I’ll probably end up living in a refidgerator box on the beach somewhere in Maui. It’d be worth it.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
by mauichuck on Dec 18, 2008 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
As Bill James says: Would you play in a rotisserie league where you can spend $70 on players and another team can spend $200?
Bill would, if he could spend $180.
by SuddenSam on Dec 19, 2008 8:35 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I think this should be recced a lot more!
by NickFantana on Dec 19, 2008 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
The sheer size of your Paesan-English dictionary still astounds me.
by supermarioelia on Dec 18, 2008 6:27 PM EST up reply actions
Just the parolaccia goomba – plus it helps if you lived on Murray Hill next to the familia DeMarco.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
Weird, half of my family has that surname.
by supermarioelia on Dec 18, 2008 11:15 PM EST up reply actions
Baseball is deeply, deeply broken and when people within the game who have the luxury to illuminate or at least not reinforce that and they don’t, they’re acting like jackasses.
by afh4 on Dec 18, 2008 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The competitive imbalance in baseball is legitimately absurd, in the true definition of the word. At the very least, CC could just shut up and pitch, as opposed to reinforcing the idea that the Yankees are doing something “right” in order to win.
by afh4 on Dec 18, 2008 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don’t think it is just them winning the series. The point is most of the teams in baseball go through relative waves of being good teams and bad teams. The Yankees don’t experiences those ups and downs, rather they overspend to fix enough of their holes to get in the playoffs and have a chance at the series, which as stated above severely disrupts the competitive imbalance in the game.
Baseball is broken. I’ve said it before. There’s a problem with a system that allows a handful of teams to overwhelming outbid other teams for the talented players, but I still don’t blame CC for taking a deal that had another year, much more money, and an opt out clause.
If I have the luxury of being in Cleveland for his first start there in pinstripes, I will cheer him fondly when he’s introduced, and then root like hell that he gets knocked out of the game by the third inning after HR’s by Grady, Pronk and Vic.
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
It’s not about taking the money for me. If he were to not take the money, he’d be awesome. Incredible. Curt Flood lite.
If he would take the money and not reinforce the Yankee mystique, just say “Here to do my job, it was a great deal for me.” then he’d be ok with me.
But to take the money and classify the Yankees as unique, in a good way, within baseball? That’s terrible.
by afh4 on Dec 18, 2008 4:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think turning down the $$$ would make him more of Curt Flood Kryptonite, and I agree I would have rather that he just shut up and do the job they’re paying him boatloads of money to do.
He didn’t day anything that was untrue. Unfortunately, being in NY does give him a better chance at winning a championship than a lot of other places. It’s not because the Yankees are any better at identifying and developing talent, have players who want it more or work harder. It’s because they have the financial wherewithal to bury mistakes that would bury other teams.
That coupled with the arrogance that leave them and their fans with an air of entitlement when it comes to being in the postseason it what makes me despise the organization and its fans. If CC drinks that Kool Aid, he’ll be dead to me. I just haven’t seen it yet.
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
Any Clevelander who would cheer for any Yankee under any circumstance should be tarred and feathered and run outta town on a rail.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
by mauichuck on Dec 18, 2008 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I’d say that his comments, along with the Jeter one, are pretty classic pro-Yankee rhetoric. Even if they’re parsed and don’t say the exact company line, they’re going to be presented as classic pro-Yankee rhetoric in the media and I’d have hoped he would’ve known that and avoided them.
Not that you don’t know this but it’s incredible how bad the Yankees are for baseball and yet no one within baseball says anything about it.
Ok, you’ve got me. He’s an a$$hole.
Now, who can come up with a good caption for this photo.
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
Sabathia laughs as Burnett lets him in on the contract year prank
by Roger Dorn on Dec 18, 2008 5:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Sabathia laughs in delight after A.J. tells him what happened to that bag of money that fell out of his plane.
by cclemens31 on Dec 18, 2008 5:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No, I want him to crush a knee in ST and never throw another pitch for the rest of his life.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
by mauichuck on Dec 18, 2008 9:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m with you Chuck. The schadenfreude that would cause could set records.
by NickFantana on Dec 19, 2008 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
It’s this kind of comment that reminds me that Chuck is really just me 50 years from now.
-Erik
by drerikbrady on Dec 19, 2008 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
AJ Burnett and CC Sabathia plan their next DL trip together.
"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."
by Blicks on Dec 18, 2008 8:43 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
“Not that you don’t know this but it’s incredible how bad the Yankees are for baseball and yet no one within baseball says anything about it.”
Yes, it’s truly amazing that no one mentions it; most media outlets and other sources fawn over the Yankees as being such a good thing for baseball. The only good thing they’re for is that they provide more money in MLB’s pockets due to the luxury tax and the revenue they generate.
I suppose a second reason is that people from all other teams can unite against them, but if the Yankees ceased to exist, I would not shed a tear (all due respect to TRUE Yankee fans, the ones that have been with the Yankees for years on end (such as during the time of Ruth, Mantle, DiMaggio, Rizzuto, etc.) before they started spending obscene amounts of money – not the bandwagon fans that just want to support the Yankees because it’s the popular thing to do or because they are perceived as “winners” because of the amount of money they spend).
Just my 2 cents.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
In order to make that statement, you would have to know nothing about the economics of the game and nothing about the history of the American League.
Hating the Yankees is the responsibility of every fair-minded, intelligent baseball fan and every diehard fan of an old-school American League team. If you don’t get that, then you are simply lost.
by Jay on Dec 18, 2008 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I also can argue the point that we are being no more irrational than CC. Maybe CC is going to do something of great value with the extra $60 million he will get: fund inner-city schools, buy food for the needy, buy an island where Robert Mugabe can abdicate, or something else that will have great impact and value. As it is, the only thing I see from CC is greed – and there is nothing more irrational than greed.
Yankees and Red Sox - MLB's Axis of Evil
(And ESPN is right in the middle)
Is it wrong to wish for a NYY private plane crash?
I’m doing it either way. I’m just looking for some perspective.
Yes, it is wrong. Contrary to all those T-shirts from the 1990’s, Basesball is not life. Life is life.
Still the local "Barfield Bounces Back Believer" and confident that Gutz will succeed in Seattle.
by mjmarble on Dec 19, 2008 9:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If baseball was a John Hughes, brat pack movie, NYY would Andrew McCarthy and Cleveland would be Jon Cryer
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
That means in 20 years the team strikes it rich on erection jokes and funny faces? We signed Kerry Wood entirely too early…
by Fundamentals on Dec 21, 2008 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
but now we have the opportunity to make out in front of them with a much hotter girl at the afterprom party at his house
as part of a 3 game game sweep of the Yankees who, with all their payroll only managed to make the playoffs as the wildcard. Especially since that sets up taking Boston down in the ALCS
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
Better at home. Fausto, fearless, on the mound covered in midges and not even noticing.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Dec 18, 2008 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
I just rewatched this game tonight
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 19, 2008 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
We’re approaching 50 comments, and Pinstripe Alley has yet to post the story.
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
just about what I expected the same as Jim, and Manny or James in two years Cleveland is nice place to start your career but not a nice to make you rich rich and more rich
Fan in Texas
Let’s not lump CC in the Manny and Thome. A
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
Oh, I think they’re all basically in the same category. But when’s the last time we actually lost someone to the Yankees?
SAME TO ME.
(my posts tonight brought to you by Yuengling and CAPITALS)
Don't be stupid. PUT IN MELOAN.
Yeah, where is he not but Ohio?
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 19, 2008 12:45 AM EST up reply actions
Yuengling has the best factory tour anywhere. Better than any other brewery tour (and I’ve been to Sam Adams and Red Hook) and waaay better than Ben & Jerry’s. I mean, where else can you stick your head into a vat of boiling wort??? They even let you walk among the bottling machines. If you are ever near Pottsville, you should make the trip. Then, head over to Knoebel’s Grove and take a ride on the Phoenix.
Yankees and Red Sox - MLB's Axis of Evil
(And ESPN is right in the middle)
It can’t be as good as the old Black Label tour. The plant was located in the old White Motors factory on E93rd and Quincy. They had a mock-up of a wood paneled bar in the basement. You could drink all the beer you could hold while they showed a highlight reel of the Browns ’64 season. Now you may think that BL tasted like day-old goat piss but they served Carling Red Cap Ale right outta the chillers – absolutely the best beer I ever had. How could you beat it? It was both fresh and free!! Anyway the hook was that the vespasiano was on the second floor.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
Believe it or not they were selling it, on tap, on Beale St. in Memphis last time I was there.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
I am very happy that the rest of the country is getting to enjoy Yuengling — here in PA, it’s as cheap as Budweiser, is that the case everywhere?
Cheaper, I think. Yeungling has been my go-to cheap beer since college (when I had to buy even cheaper).
I thought it was available all over the east coast.
by cleveland teamer on Dec 19, 2008 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
In most bars around the Lehigh Valley you just ask for a “lager” when you want Yuengling (lager, obviously). I think it usually is cheaper than Budweiser — one place I used to go sometimes it was frequently on special for $1 for a 12 oz draft.
by Logodaedalus on Dec 19, 2008 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
It's really hard to find in WV.
www.PadsAndEnds.blogspot.com
"jbox does not drink coffee, as it makes him clean house big time." ~Kev
by TheThirdGonzalez on Dec 19, 2008 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
brought to you by Rogue Chipotle Ale
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Dec 19, 2008 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
Woohoo, oldest brewery in the US… Pottsville, PA
by Logodaedalus on Dec 19, 2008 12:25 PM EST up reply actions
As mentioned above – the best factory tour around.
Yankees and Red Sox - MLB's Axis of Evil
(And ESPN is right in the middle)
I haven’t been on that many, but I have been on that one. They converted it into an ice cream factory during Prohibition, apparently. One of the few tidbits I remember.
by Logodaedalus on Dec 20, 2008 2:45 AM EST up reply actions
Not to get into this conversation again, but Lebron’s situation is completely different. In order to leave Cleveland he’ll have to leave at least $30 million on the table and go to an inferior team. It’s called a soft cap, Donny. It’s the NBA, the records room, B1, using the whole fist …
by randallhank on Dec 18, 2008 8:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
All of this makes me hungry for a sloppy joe and brick sandwich.
by NickFantana on Dec 19, 2008 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We’ll talk after he does his little fist pump after striking out Grady in the ninth inning with two on after a complete game 1-0 victory.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
How do two get on ahead of Grady unless he’s batting third?
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
Meh, it happens. Hopefuly I will not be in attendance though. I have been to 4 baseball games in my life. All Indians Yankees. All losses. I’m seriously starting to get worried.
Is this supposed to be more exciting to you than his first career homer?
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 19, 2008 12:47 AM EST up reply actions
See this is why I got my CC hate going months ago so there’s no learning curve now.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
I’m gonna be that guy and disagree, too.
He went to the Yankees for the money plain and simple, for a ridiculous contract with a ridiculous opt-out clause, and I think that’s a lot less jackass-ish than going there for the loaded dice. I’m sure he’ll be happy about getting a chance to pitch in the playoffs every year, and I hope he manages to do it once without choking maybe sometime around… I dunno, 2017?… but the stuff he said today is just the stuff one says in these sorts of situations.
If he’d just resigned with the Indians he’d be spouting whatever sort of boilerplate Shapiro wanted him to spout. But he’s spouting Yankee boilerplate, because he pitches for the Yankees now, which is why I want his freaking arm to fall off.
I hate the Yankees organization at the very core of my being, maybe more than I even like the Indians, as perverse as that is. I refuse to even have them on my fantasy baseball teams. But I root against the shirt. I mean, if the Indians signed Andy Pettitte on a two-year deal tomorrow I’d like him just fine all the sudden.
CC is just a dude getting paid. There’s no reason to hate him personally, but now there’s every reason to hate him professionally. For the next six years, I wish Sabathia nothing but complete and humiliating professional failure, just like I wish for anybody else in those hideous pinstripes. I wouldn’t feel too bad if his arm actually literally fell off. I want him to completely collapse.
But then I want him to go home and have a great time with that mind-boggling stack of cash.
But I dunno, I might be the wrong person to ask… I mean, I even still kinda like Manny, and he actually is a jackass.
I think it’s canned heat. We’re supposed to hate him because he plays for the Yankees, because that’s how sports work. You’re supposed to hate your rivals. It doesn’t mean he’s a uniquely bad guy or anything, or that you hate the guy on a personal level. He’s just on a heel turn.
The Tigers are our rivals. You could call it canned heat if he signed with them.
The Yankees are a whole different beast. They are everything that’s wrong with the sport. They are injustice. There is nothing canned about it.
“When it came down to it, really thinking about what I wanted, having the chance to win every year. That’s something that I talk about all the time. That’s the bottom line for me. There really was no other place to go.”
Jack-ass quote, even if you’re jesus christ himself.
by Brick. on Dec 18, 2008 5:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I guess what I’m saying is that I think that’s a lie.
If the Giants had matched the Yankees offer, he’d be talking about how the bottom line was going home to Cali.
So what if it is a lie? He made the choice, and he spoke those words, and he is a jackass.
Words have meaning, and actions have consequences.
Words certainly have meaning, but much of their meaning is derived from context. With regard to professional sports, I feel pretty comfortable ignoring everything an athlete says unless it amuses me (O, Manny…), relates to a technical matter, or is otherwise abnormal or noteworthy.
What CC said today is the rhetorical equivalent of signing the contract. It’s meaningless, except to denote that he is now a Yankee and should be rooted against accordingly.
by still ill on Dec 18, 2008 6:02 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I thought my post was pretty clear, Sabathia isn’t a jackass because of those words, but because of the signing itself. The words just provide further evidence. So I’m not sure we really disagree on this.
I re-read your post, and it’s crystal clear: Yankee=jackass. I got distracted the first time through by the commentary about the press conference.
So I think we just disagree on what constitutes a jackass. I tend to think of Yankeedom as an acute condition (except for a few particularly loathsome players and unfortunately most fans), whereas jackassery is more chronic. Yankeedom can be a risk factor for jackassery and vice versa, but they’re not one and the same to me.
Anyway, I have a feeling we’ll both be rooting against him with equal enthusiasm.
All these quotes—from C.C. back to Clemens—come from their media people. C.C. is trained to say something like this, because it looks good for the image, and for the team, and the game. I can’t believe everyone is taking these as heartfelt words.
I like to think I’d be more candid about things in the same situation, but cliche is kind of the norm when it comes to sports press conferences. It’s hard for me to really get on somebody’s case about it.
Relating to another thread here, but this is why Kenny >>CC and is a real, true, Indian favorite. When Kenny says something – go ahead and see if you can find a quote that belies this – he means it. No BS, no spin, no athlete-speak. CC, on the other hand, is so full of merde he probably tastes it all-day.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
He said those words. He chose to say them. They’re his words.
Accountability must really be dead at this point. People seem confused when you even bring it up.
You’re right, but this goes back to what I said about pressure being put on him to sign in New York. He’s a young man, a ball player. He’s not going to stand up in front of the cameras and extemporize. Very few people could. So he’s coached. If he felt strongly he could say, “Wait a minute. I want to say something else.” They might even let him do it.
He’s a jackass for signing with the Yankees. All this other stuff is window dressing. What you say about accountability is correct, but that’s not the way it works anymore.
My standards are not going down in this area. Without accountability, we got nothing.
It doesn’t matter what’s boilerplate and what isn’t. He’s a jackass for just thinking it, and he’s a jackass for saying it. He’s a jackass either way, and if he believes it and says it, then he’d be doubly a jackass.
And he was already a jackass, even if he didn’t say anything.
Without accountability, we got nothing.
Unless that means having to account for failure to disclose injury information…
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 19, 2008 12:50 AM EST up reply actions
Are you going for some kind of award for density?
Said “failure” presupposes there was a duty to disclose.
No, I was going for a joke and, clearly, failing
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 19, 2008 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
He’s just pandering to his new fanbase. What he said wasn’t even that bad.
The guy is set for life and is going to live in the greatest city in the world. Let him be excited.
NY is way worse in terms of culture now than it was in the days of Franz Kline. It is inimical to culture. Try the Palazzo Doria Pamphilj instead.
Things to do? Getting pushed and shoved, you mean?
Crime? Petty larceny is down, but grand larceny is way up (see Madoff et al.).
Have you ever lived there? Or do you simply have an idealized view of what it is like as a place to live?
So your two biggest gripes are being pushed and shoved in the streets (never really happened to me) and grand larceny as if other cities like Chicago aren’t much more corrupt. A few anecdotal instances of corruption aren’t exactly going to bring down my image of an amazing city.
You left the city during the height of the crak epidemic and seem unaware of how massively different it is in the present day.
I’ll take Chicago any day.
Also, I’ll have to take your word for how different New York is these days. As I said above, in my experience, it’s worse today than it was during the days of Abe Beame.
You’ve never been jostled in New York, indoors or out? That’s odd.
Try living there & see if you still think it’s such an amazing city.
What odradek said. Chicago>>NYC, better food, better music, better people. NYC is a fraud, the music is derivative, the food from hunger and the people are scared to death of one another. Gimme Chicago, Philly and Houston over NYC any day.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
Great food – the Cajun is fantastic, the music is great – try Rockefeller’s or the Spring Blues Festival, the women are all beautiful – and friendly. Plus and it’s only 4 hours to New Orleans.
Yep, I’ll take Houston over NYC any day.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
but… you have to drive everywhere, don’t you? how can that be a respectable city?
by Logodaedalus on Dec 20, 2008 2:46 AM EST up reply actions
Wrong again sweet cakes. I lived in Katy – about 15 miles from downtown. You could grab the bus at the Rt. 6 and I-10. The bus had huge recliner seats. Drink your coffee, read the paper, ride in the high occupancy lane at 60mph while the rest of the jadrools were crawlin’ at 10mph. The bus would drop me off ~1/4 mile from my office, all for ~$10 a week – perfect!
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
The food from hunger? Huh?
And what do you mean by the people are scared to death of one another? Are we talking about crime? Because NYC is certainly much, much safer than Chicago, Philly, or Houston.
Here try this: on the subway in both NYC and Chicago the seats are set up so that the passengers face the middle of the cars. In NYC nobody, but nobody looks you in the eye. In Chicago they not only make eye contact, they actually talk to one another. What a stark contrast.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
I don’t think that reflects being “scared to death”… I think you just create a personal space bubble when you’re somewhere that dense.
by Logodaedalus on Dec 20, 2008 2:47 AM EST up reply actions
Nice bit of sophistry, but unsupported by the facts. The is little if any difference between the population density of DT Chicago and DT NYC.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
I haven’t spent much time in Chicago, but from what little I have it feels like a small town compared to NYC. I mean, obviously it’s actually really big, but…I dunno…doesn’t have the same feel to it somehow.
Again though, not really a fair comparison, since I’ve spent way more time in NY than in Chicago.
by Logodaedalus on Dec 20, 2008 3:06 AM EST up reply actions
Chi definitely has a different feel, which in my mind is one of the best things about it. When New Yorkers visit Chicago they say things like, “Wow, this is actually a big city.” “I’m really impressed with how good the restaurants are.” “You know, it’s surprisingly cosmopolitan.”
those New Yorkers can be pretty condescending, can’t they?
by Logodaedalus on Dec 20, 2008 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
Condescending is only one facet of the standard moronic New Yorkers personality. I’ll admit I’m overly fond of this thread, but it’s not just because it’s mine. It’s because the response from the Yankee fans so succinctly show how twisted their personalities are. From my experience it’s pretty typical of your average NYC resident.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
I don’t think it’s remotely fair to lump all or even a large percentage of New Yorkers in with typical Yankee fans. With some exceptions, of course, I’ve generally had very positive experiences with the New Yorkers that I’ve interacted with. I think they can have a superiority complex about New York itself, but interacting with them in the city in a non-tourist capacity is typically a perfectly friendly experience.
by Logodaedalus on Dec 20, 2008 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
It is an extremely difficult city in which to live in terms of noise, expense, opportunity, aggression. It is now, it was in 1975, and it probably was in 1870.
But you still haven’t answered my question: have you lived there? Do you speak from experience what a great place it is to inhabit?
Cost of living, according to the stats, isn’t much different than Chi or LA. Housing costs are what get you. I recently overheard a guy in a coffeeshop on Sixth Avenue explain how one of his two monthly paychecks—i.e., 50% of his take home—went to rent. And I bet he lived in a dump. Silverfish, banging pipes and a lunatic screaming all night in the street.
You left out the mouse sized roaches and the radio-active rats, plus the garbage stacked 8 feet high in the streets. Oh and the sirens, don’t forget the sirens blaring all night long. Now all I hear in the morning are Java Finches. Much, much better.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
Again this is nuts. You guys are acting like NYC is some dangerous hellhole with the sirens blaring all night and lunatics screamin in the streets. Yet all the stats point to the city overall being the safest big city on the continental US. That’s including the really bad areas of Brooklyn, Queens, and the Bronx. If we’re just talking about Manhattan, no other city you mentioned even comes close.
Since the crack era, and with the reign of Rudy, NY obviously became a lot safer than Detroit. You don’t see deranged people on the street as much. But while that was a concern in 1980 it wasn’t the worse thing about NY. You have to fight to live there. As Spidey says below, the hypercompetitiveness is wearying. People grab and fight over seats on the bus, shopping bags, places in line, sandwiches at the deli. Try taking the Q train every day—you have to be aggressive just to get home from work. You fight with people over the smallest things, with next to no courtesy or decency. I’d rather be in a statistically less safe city where you can go about your business unmolested.
I’ve lived there: 75 Jane St. near Hudson. There was a Benny Burrito’s on the corner. Benny woudda got arrested in Houston for selling that swill.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
You ever drink in a joint called Automatic Slims on Washington? I used to spend a fair amount of time there. Perhaps too hoity-toity for you, but a good jukebox. They also have an Automatic Slims on Second Street in Memphis. And now Miami too. Which probably sucks.
Back then I was livin’ large – usta eat at the Four Seasons, 21 Club, the Gotham – joints like that. I was working for Turner Construction and we had an Italian subcontractor usta take us out to eat 3-4 times a week. When I went out for a beer it was usually at the Blarney Stone somewhere around E43rd. I wouldda rather been eatin’ at Mama’s in Houston and drinkin’ at one of the Texas ice houses.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
Let’s just say this: I’ve been to Rome, I’ve been to Paris and I’ve been to London. NYC doesn’t even come close. “Great city in the world” definitely undermines your credibility.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
I guess it depends on how you define greatest but to me and many others it is indeed the greatest.
The most important too. Wipe away NYC and the world goes into a depression. Wipe away Rome or Paris and the world wouldn’t change a bit.
Wipe away NYC
My fondest hope. However if things stay on their current course we may just find out that the most important cities in the world are Mumbai or Beijing – two other hellholes.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
I’d be depressed for a while, but I would soon get over it.
It does depend on how you define greatness. I don’t think financial might makes a great city. I’ll take Paris or Rome over NY.
Wipe away NYC and the world might lose its mind; wipe away Rome and the world would lose its soul.
Yankees and Red Sox - MLB's Axis of Evil
(And ESPN is right in the middle)
Rome? really? these cities have nothing on Jerusalem
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Dec 19, 2008 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
Pfff. Let’s see how people react when we wipe out Tashkent.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 19, 2008 12:52 AM EST up reply actions
i thought when they tore down the Vet, that was the last of them…
by Brick. on Dec 19, 2008 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Seriously guys, NYC is an awesome city. Hate the teams, but you can’t hate the city.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 19, 2008 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
one of my favorite places, period. but it’s not perfect. it’s not worth what it costs, and things like times squared have become downright dreadful. the big problem with new york comes when it acts like the teams. when the people, usually from new jersey or something, blather on about how it’s the greatest thing. noted, but the attitude is reprehensible, like its teams. you can wipe paris and rome off the face of the earth, etc…? honestly, that’s the thing that keeps new york from being the greatest, the douchebag attitude.
Now you’re just grasping at straws. I obviously don’t want Rome and Paris to be wiped off the face of the Earth. It was an example to show that NYC is more important than those cities in terms of the world functioning properly.
ok:
one of my favorite places, period. but it’s not perfect. it’s not worth what it costs, and things like times square have become downright dreadful. the big problem with new york comes when it acts like the teams. when the people, usually from new jersey or something, blather on about how it’s the greatest thing. noted, but the attitude is reprehensible, like its teams. that’s the thing that keeps new york from being the greatest, the douchebag attitude.
i just used that as an example because it was here – not to call you out or exhibit that as emblematic. but the attitude i’m referring to exists, and it detracts from the greatness of new york.
What do you hate about Time Square? The tourists? Few actual NYC residents ever go there. It’s not like there aren’t hundreds of other places to go.
yeah, the toursist, the chain everything… it’s more vegas than new york. my last 5-6 trips to new york i don’t think i went within 10-15 blocks of it. in fact i’ve ended up spending more time in brooklyn where my friends live than in manhattan.
Hey! The world is functioning properly. Who knew?
by odradek on Dec 19, 2008 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Fair enough. I don’t suppose I’ve ever spent enough time there to notice but I can see where you’re coming from.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 19, 2008 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
What’s the point of this? Name me one city that doesn’t have hellholes. But the ratio of sweet areas to hell holes is higher in NYC than in almost any other city in the country.
Different strokes for different folks. New York is a great place to visit – and for some it is a great place to live. The problem I have is when people distort the good and the bad. You love the place – that’s wonderful. Just don’t bash other cities to make your point. (One of its faults is that New York is in a race to be the best at everything; I don’t know how all of that hyper-competitiveness can be healthy…)
Yankees and Red Sox - MLB's Axis of Evil
(And ESPN is right in the middle)
I never actually lived in New York, but I spent most of my weekends there for a couple years… I never really appreciated it until then. Being an occasional visitor without your own place (in my case my girlfriend’s place) just doesn’t do it justice… I never had to pay rent, of course, so I can’t really do a full on cost-benefit analysis, but I really think it’s one of the greatest cities around. The sports teams, especially the Yankees, are effing obnoxious, but that aside, I love the city itself. And I never found the people to be rude or mean, just…straightforward.
by Logodaedalus on Dec 20, 2008 2:59 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed completely. I love ragging on my uncle when the Mets do their annual collapse in September. I love that the Yankees lead the league in payroll and we steamrolled their asses in the playoffs in 2007. I proudly wore my Sizemore tee to a NJ bar for the Carmona/bug game and almost got my ass kicked. I love how the Knicks spend almost as recklessly as the Yankees do and are one of the worst teams in basketball. Really I enjoy all of it. But when you extrapolate the love of poking fun at those teams to hatred of the city, I get rightfully annoyed.
The most robust public transportation system in the country. CHECK
World-class libraries, museums, theaters, and concert venues. CHECK
Diverse nightlife. CHECK
Beautiful people. CHECK x50
What’s not to like about New York? (Other than price?)
by JulioBernazard on Dec 20, 2008 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
Civility – no
A sense of community – no
A good bowl of gumbo – no
One, just one, half-ass decent radio station – no
A good blues bar – no
Please spare me on the theaters – the American musical is dead, and I’d rather have ’em re-do my heart valve replacement than hafta sit through 3 hours of a Broadway play
And Julio, beautiful people? Only if you’re into black-clad troglodytes.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
I have to disagree on the first two points. Especially within neighborhoods, which are really mini cities unto themselves, I think there’s quite a sense of community. And I discussed civility a bit above. Yankees fans as a group are another story.
Gumbo? I can’t provide a specific example but I would be shocked if there weren’t some good gumbo around if you knew where to look.
by Logodaedalus on Dec 20, 2008 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
Chuck, you don’t like Hot 97? What are you nuts?
I just got back from my first legit vacay in NYC – stayed with my buddy in Queens. I had a blast and loved Manhattan. It seems like a young person’s paradise, but there is a chilling tendency for anyone over the age of 40 who has spent some time there to bash it – I would guess that there is something to this claim.
It’s interesting to hear you promote Chicago. I go to school there and NYC made me feel like CHI was small-time.
Chicago is cheaper. New York doesn’t offer me anything that Chicago lacks. I like dive bars, an occasional concert, good museums, and great theatre. Chicago gives me all that at a discount.
I don’t get why anyone thinks Chicago doesn’t stack up but I have an admittedly warped perspective. I initially moved here to perform comedy and Chicago treats New York like it’s little brother when it comes to anything but stand-up, so from the start I was used to people leaving for New York because they thought it’d be easier to get on stage there than it is here.
New York’s really nice I just don’t go there and think “If only Chicago had this.” They’re certainly different but I find it hard to say one or the other is better.
Just like Chicago, most of New York Youth live in a small area and hang out in a small area. I don’t give NYC any credit for being bigger because it doesn’t feel bigger-all that extra space is just more places that young college grads don’t hang out, just like the westside or the far southside.
Where do you go to school?
Obviously, Manhattan is dense. I was in love with the tight residential-commercial interaction. In Chicago, everything is so damned far apart. That, and our transportation blows. NYC’s isn’t perfect; the El totally sucks. Chicago has all that NYC has, but NYC has it all a little bit better. It’s art is better. It’s residential neighborhoods are better. It’s history is cooler. It’s architecture is a little better. It’s universities are a little bit better. It’s just slightly more happenin’ in so many categories. I know nothing about the comedy scene, but I guess Chicago would be better. I still haven’t gone to Second City but I’m an idiot not to go soon.
The neighborhoods just north of the city are admittedly awesome. My buddies and I like to go to the Fullerton/Depaul/Belmont areas for weekend fiestas. Those little brownstones just north of the city are awesome and are where I’d live if I stay post-graduation. Where do you live? Where do you frequent? Are you from Cleveland? Interesting that you’d pick Chicago for reasons other than the fact that it is the more successful, grownup analog to Cleveland. The two cities are really culturally sympathetic in my opinion.
I would be willing to bet that summer-time Chicago beats New York, at least. That beach is vast.
I go to Northwestern, so when I say I go to school in Chicago, I’m lying. In fact, that’s probably what colors my preference for NYC. In Chicago, for me, it takes me 30 minutes on the El to get to the action. In NYC, it took me 5.
I lived in Cleveland for about 2 seconds when I was in pre-school. Enough to become an Indians fan and that’s about it.
I’ll agree that NYC has everything a little bit better (at least in most instances). My whole issue is that it has things a little bit better and a whole lot more expensive.
Second City is alright but the cost is sort of nuts. You can slide into iO on Clark Street for about a quarter of the price and if you know what show to go to get as good a product. But don’t pick the wrong show. Lord, don’t pick the wrong show.
I live at Belmont and Lake Shore, basically in the neighborhoods where you (and everybody) hangs out on weekends. I work very near the Fullerton El, at Clark and Webster.
I thought maybe you went to Loyola on the far northside and that’s why you thought Chicago sucked. Evanston is a decent town in it’s own right. I went for Dillo Day once; ended up nearly passed out in Philly’s Best on Belmont about 7 hours later.
If you want to catch a game or just grab a drink sometime (if you’re of age), hit up the gmail. Brick, Thommy, Mrich and I usually get together once or twice a season.
Who chooses fandom in pre-school? Granted, I was an Indians fan in pre-school, but I had some serious ancestral infrastructure pointing me toward Catholicism and the Indians. Only some of these notions stuck.
You went to Dillo Day? I sort of hate that day. That’s the day when non-drinkers think it’s fun to “go nuts” and where regular drinkers just pass out at 9 am on their couch. But it was cool seeing Common last year and The Roots the year before.
Yeah, I’ll be down for a whitesox game or some crap like that.
I’m a Buffalo Bills fan because of a similarly short tenure living in Buffalo as a kindergartner. It wasn’t till years later that I realized quite a few upstate New Yorkers adopted the Indians as their franchise because of the general vitriol for NYC there.
It didn’t hurt that where I actually grew up (Central/Southern VA) doesn’t connect tightly with any franchise. Some people were O’s fans, some were Braves fans, some Yankees. It was a free for all. People are crazy for the Redskins there, though.
I thought Dillo Day was alright. I’m a sucker for drinking in the morning.
My 89 years old great uncle was a sportswriter in Cleveland and still listens to every game on the radio (he’s been blind since his teenage years). Anyway, his ancestors first came through upstate NY and he picked up the Bills as his football team as well. Still sleeps with a Bills blanket every night.
I’ve seen my fair share of civility in my 13+ years here. Don’t judge everything by midtown rat-racers.
Sense of community — I can see your point, but Logo has a claim, too. Check the outer boroughs if you want some sense of community.
Gumbo — maybe Dinosaur BBQ? Not sure.
Radio across the country has been dead for a long time, thanks to conglomerates buying everything. But I’ve had some good experiences with WFUV out of Fordham (warning: you can also have some very bad experiences with that channel).
Blues bar — admittedly, NYC is much more of a jazz town. I agree with you on this one.
Theater is no more dead than radio.
And anyone who argues that there aren’t enough beautiful women in New York is just being an A-hole.
by JulioBernazard on Dec 21, 2008 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
I feel completely the opposite: I hate him personally but not professionally. Professionally, he did what most professions do: seek out the best deal he can get for plying his trade, which is, in fact, throwing a baseball real hard. And he signed a contract with the team who was willing to pay the most for a guy who throws a baseball real hard. Personally, though, its quite clear that nothing was more important to him than the money. On top of that, he insults us by claiming there is some other reason why he’s wearing pinstripes. So, professionally, I guess he has my respect. Personally, not so much. At first, I thought he might just be a scumbag, but based on the evidence, I’d say he’s a real jackass.
he’s spouting Yankee boilerplate, because he pitches for the Yankees now
Wait, wait, you’re defense of CC’s behavior is that “he’s just following orders”, is that right?
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
If by “his behavior” you mean “saying bland and uncritical things about his new employer at a press conference,” then yes. He’s just following orders.
Listen: he signed with the Yankees, he didn’t join the Nazi party… It’s only kind of the same.
I guess what I’ve been trying to say is that, as horrified as I am by all this, I don’t think there’s really a moral or ethical component to it, at least not from the player’s perspective. It’s not like he’s been pitching for Cleveland all this time because it was the right thing to do, you know?
It’s just hard for me to judge someone a jackass when I don’t think they’ve done anything unusual or unjustified.
Listen: he signed with the Yankees, he didn’t join the Nazi party… It’s only kind of the same.
What are we going to split hairs here?
The Yankees aren’t even an ethos!
by Jay on Dec 18, 2008 10:53 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
This might be true for everyone on the board – we know CC only in the manner of seeing him on a pitcher’s mound (and sometimes at the plate). Whether you call that personally or professionally, I don’t know. What I do know is that CC will be on a pitcher’s mound wearing a Yankees uniform solely because he wanted an extra $40-60 million. I hate the Yankees, and I find it hard to root for a guy who says he cherishes his family on the west coast – yet chooses to move the family to NYC where is can be challenging in that media environment. He has every right to make that choice – it’s a free country. Maybe the environment is wonderful for his family – that’ll be great.
Just as much so, I have every right to hate him. I don’t have the right to spit in his face. I don’t have the right to pour beer on his wife at the stadium. I don’t have the right to do harm to him and his family. But, when he steps on the mound in that Yankees uniform I have the right to boo him.
Yankees and Red Sox - MLB's Axis of Evil
(And ESPN is right in the middle)
Yay, Sundin signs with the Canucks the same day the Yanks make if official with CC. And you know what? Screw em both.
That’s hockey right?
Don't be stupid. PUT IN MELOAN.
by gte619n on Dec 18, 2008 11:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Getting tickets for all six games in Toronto
by supermarioelia on Dec 18, 2008 11:29 PM EST up reply actions
O/T but somehow appropriate for posting here. The Braves response to getting spurned by Furcal and his team of agents is awesome.
Short version: Braves to agent – don’t bother calling us again….ever.
This seems like a big deal. Can an agency get away with this kind of ethical misconduct?
by cleveland teamer on Dec 18, 2008 7:43 PM EST up reply actions
apparently not with the Braves. If you are another client of Tellem et al, you’ve got to be kind of pissed I would think. Sure, they managed to get Furcal an additional $3M, but now you’ve lost a team you can potentially get to bid on you (at least via your agency).
I guess this isn’t all that different from what Boras regularly does…except he fabricates competitive offers to get teams to bid against themselves, which is arguably worse than what Furcal’s agent did. And yet the Red Sox continue to do business with Boras.
by cleveland teamer on Dec 19, 2008 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
From what I’ve read, this goes way beyond what any other agent has ever been known to do. Kinzer asked the Braves to fax him a signed deal sheet. According to every MLB GM who has spoken about it, this is the end of the deal. You’ve got an agreement. At that point the team stops negotiating with other players it might be interested in for that spot, and the player stops looking to make a deal with another team.
Furcal didn’t do that. Kinzer took the signed deal sheet to the Dodgers and used it to get a better offer. Schurholz is right, the conduct of the Wasserman group was “despicable,” but I would lump the Dodgers into that same category. An ethical team would have said, ‘You have a deal with the Braves, don’t you? Well, in that case, we’re not making any further offers.’
Tellem is hiding behind technicalities of when a contract is signed, sealed and delivered. In a legal sense he is probably right, but in a business ethics sense he is full of crap.
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
by Harry Doyle on Dec 19, 2008 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
To paraphrase “A League of Their Own”
Business Ethics? Business Ethics? There’s no Business Ethics in baseball!!!"
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
That’s were you’re wrong. GM’s have been clear that a term sheet is not prepared, signed, and presented to a player until a deal is in place.
An agent wouldn’t ask for a signed term sheet unless he either knew his client had agreed to that deal or he was unscrupulous. That’s the way the entire business operates, and the Wasserman Group didn’t act that way in this instance.
Schurholz was right to call them out on it. Tellem’s response about not violating rules of MLB and referencing the NLRA just shows what sort of a weasel he is.
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
And let’s hope that this jackass move by Kinzer comes back to bite him and all of the clients of The Wasserman Media Group in the ass, from not getting business from Atlanta (and maybe some other teams who respect Schurholz) to having teams require that their clients sign the term sheet first.
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
Yanks finalize contracts with Sabathia, Burnett
This is why I quit involvement with MLB professional baseball a year ago.
It’s ridiculous and foolish to be involved with their charade.
jay,
i get it. i really do. like you, i despise the yankees and what they stand for. living on the east coast (easton, pa – which is practically new jersey), i see jackass yankee fans every day and they annoy the crap out of me (it is the smugness, i think).
however, i don’t think i’m down with your insinuation that the yankee players and coaches don’t fight every day for every win they get. if they didn’t, no matter how much money they spent, they wouldn’t sniff the postseason. to win in baseball you have to give 100% all the time. if you let up, people will catch you. no matter how much money they spend, they cannot coast into the post season. bottom line, even the yankees play hard every day. when they don’t, they lose.
so i don’t think sabathia or anyone else who signs with the yankees does so because it will be easy…it is just for the money (and marketing?). having the opportunity to play on a quarter billion dollar roster is nice and all, but only as long as your share of that quarter billion is hefty.
anyway. sabathia will still play as hard as he ever has. hopefully harder, so he pulls a muscle or something…
Greetings to Larry Holmes Boulevard.
Some Yankees who don’t play hard every day: Bobby Abreu, Jason Giambi, Melky Cabrera, Damaso Marte, Shelley Duncan.
You live in Easton? I grew up in Bethlehem.
by Logodaedalus on Dec 19, 2008 12:36 PM EST up reply actions
Curious
What if Sabathia had said this instead?
“I’m not going to say money wasn’t an issue,” Burnett said. “I’m not going to lie; of course money had something to do with it. But I have a chance to win five years in a row. Whether you admit you love them or hate them, everybody wants to be a Yankee.”
The first parts great. The second part is ridiculous.
The Yankee mystique persists because idiotic comments like this are made. They haven’t been any good in, like, 8 years. Everybody does not want to be a Yankee. Cal Ripken did not want to be a Yankee. Tony Gwynn didn’t. Barry Bonds didn’t.
Good God. The world, including baseball players, does not hang on the allure of the Yankees; only idiots do.
The most ridiculous thing about all this is, as bad as they are for baseball, they aren’t even any good at abusing the system. The Red Sox are worse because they abuse the system much more quietly and capably.
by afh4 on Dec 19, 2008 8:12 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
On the other hand, I heard audio of CC speaking to reporters on XM last night. He described looking at a house with his wife and a real estate agent. The agent, who must have been from Mars BTW, says, “So I hear you’re a professional athlete. Which team do you play for?”
CC said that when he said, “The Yankees,” he got a chill up his spine.
He drank the Kool Aid. He’s an Asshole!
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
by Harry Doyle on Dec 19, 2008 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
The agent, who must have been from Mars BTW
and apparently, the person who tipped the agent off to CC’s athletedom is from the moon. Who says “you’re about to deal with a professional athlete” instead of “you’re about to deal with the new york yankee ACE, who happens to be the RICHEST PITCHER IN THE WORLD”
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
What C.C. is really saying: “I want to have the postseason gift-wrapped like a special gift for me, every single year. I don’t want to have to compete for it and earn it.”
I never thought of it this way before, but yeah. Way to go Jay.
Maybe he’s thinking that if he didn’t have to compete for it and earn it, he actually would have something left in October.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Dec 19, 2008 1:35 AM EST up reply actions
This part of the argument was the worst. Like it subtracts from the player’s competitiveness if he goes to the better team.
It isn’t about the Yankees being a better team, that completely mis-represents the situation. It is about the Yankees having competitive advantages in building their team that are far above every other team, something that is not remotely even permitted in any other major sports league. It is about the Yankees being the epicenter of something deeply corrupt in the sport, and Sabathia opting to make himself the new Exhibit A in that corruption.
“I think this is the best place for me to try to win a championship,” Sabathia said Thursday, on his way to the news conference where he was formally introduced, along with right-hander A.J. Burnett. “Everybody had speculated about me staying in California. I had always talked about winning a championship, and you look at the Yankees, it’s something they contend for just about every year.”
Um, C.C., didn’t you just go from a team that actually was contending in 2008 to a team that was in a hot race for 3rd place with Toronto? (Which is also why I’m LOLing over A.J. Burnett too. Last I checked, Roy Halladay didn’t pitch for the Yanks.)
Why, yes, I’m one of those perpetually irritated Brewers fans. Hi. Also, Yankees fans should know that C.C. is anti-clutch in the playoffs. If only it didn’t take Seth McClung an inning to get warmed up…shakes head
Woke up at four in the morning, got online, and against all my better judgment...
…I felt compelled to post, if only because Voltaire should not have to stand up to the mob all by himself.
My disclaimer: I do not disagree with the reasons behind most fans’ enmity for the Yankees; I say most because I live in Cambridge, and am surrounded by Red Sox fans, who I feel are hypocrites in that they are essentially Yankees fans, just of a different color. Which is why it pains my heart to hear fans of the finest team in baseball spouting the same inflammatory rhetoric as these unwashed troglodytes, even if our reasons are more honest and sincere.
That being said, our reasons are legitimate. So then, let me say that I agree wholeheartedly with the reasoning, but I disagree wholeheartedly with the tone.
Nevertheless, I will never deny anyone here their right to feel the way they do about this subject (just as I would hope no one would deny someone’s right to not like Ben Francisco, even while objecting to the tone of some of the arguments used against him). Like Gradyforpresident (I think) would say, it’s a feeling, and by God, go ahead and have it.
If anybody wants to rip me to pieces, feel free. This will be my only contribution to this thread.
by ManchildinBeantown on Dec 19, 2008 5:05 AM EST reply actions
I’m not in love with the tone, either. I, as evidenced by things I wrote, don’t just sort of like CC. He’s my first baseball love, from when I was just a kid. I grew up with him.
But, this is the tone of sports commentary nowadays; it’s not like it’s limited to discussions of the Yankees. In fact, I could be criticized for using this tone relatively often against miscreants like Ben Francisco.
Frankly, if he would signed that same contract with, let’s say, the Angels, no one would have really cared. But he happened to sign with the Evil Empire, the team that’s stood between the Indians and at least 5 pennants, the franchise that landed Sabathia just because they happened to reside in the media capital of the US. The Yankees have always been a rival, but in the last 15 years they’ve become more than that.
Personally, I don’t have any hard feelings towards Sabathia – it’s been obvious for two years that he was going to be gone. If by chance I’m at the game where CC makes his first start in Cleveland as a non-Indian, I’m going to give him a standing O when he’s introduced and then treat him the same as any other Yankee.
I hate the Yankees.
They are not bad for baseball. That is absurd. They are the nemesis. They are the conflict. And for all their money and spending, are they the favorite to win the World Series? They are a time bomb.
Baseball is a meritocracy for the players. It is the only sports business that still runs on capitalism. If you don’t see the parallels, you are blind.
If we take the Yankees to the extreme and say they were to buy up all the talent, baseball would be ruined and so would they.
I think we all can agree that our Indians are a much better run franchise than the Yankees. Let’s try to subtract the jealousy.
proverbial "moron in a hurry"
Yep it would be pure capitolism – if the Yankees only played intra-squad games. But they make their money by selling ticket to games between their team and others owners teams. They are partners in an enterprise – partners with 31 other owners.
Frankly I’m a little tired of this Rush Limbaugh – like argument. Take a look at the NBA – now that’s capitolism.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
ok, I’m being lazy. If this has already been discussed, I appologize. This would be a great topic if it hasn’t already been discussed. I mean for giggles. What if baseball did work this way? The Pirates and Royals would have been demoted. There have been some great Akron teams in recent years. Of course, they were great because of the potential of the talent, but still.
proverbial "moron in a hurry"
Hey, Chuck. Speaking of the NBA, how about those Cavs!
by JulioBernazard on Dec 19, 2008 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
I ain’t worried – LeBron’ll gag in the play-offs just like his good buddy CC.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
Yeah, just like he did in Detroit in 2007, right?
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 19, 2008 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
I’m still waiting for LeBron to deliver like Jim Brown did. I ain’t worried, he won’t, but for now I’m a Celtics fan. On Kevin! On Paul! On Ray and Rajon! Go you Green clad monsters, go!
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
[Loses all respect for Chuck. Vomits.]
by JulioBernazard on Dec 20, 2008 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Cuz the Celtics and the Majic have the only real chance of knocking the Cavs outta the play-offs. If the Cavs actually win a championship we’ll never get LeStunod outta town. James is rapidly, if not already, becoming the face of Cleveland sports. I find this intolerable. Better he should leave in frustration than remain here for the rest of his career.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
I have to say that I kinda think of the Celtics as the Yankees of the NBA.
"Lotta heart in Cleveland." - Ian Hunter
by Denver Tribe Fan on Dec 20, 2008 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
As people above have said it is the picture of him in the Yankees jersey that is bringing on the hate. I was indifferent when I heard he signed in NY. I was hoping he would sign in LA or SF or even Milwaukee. I was a big CC fan when he was here and I was cheering for him in Milwaukee and it hurt to see him come up short in the playoffs again.
But now that he is playing for them… sorry CC. I don’t hope you get injured or anything but I hope you break down a bit, don’t pitch well, don’t win a World Series and opt out to go to SF in 3 years after the NY fans and media run you out of time.
I am now really happy we made the trade this year. To lose CC for nothing would have hurt. To have lost him for nothing to the Yankees would have sucked large.
Let’s hope CC joins that club
"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.
by Harry Doyle on Dec 19, 2008 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Brewer Fan Here
I can’t hate on CC just yet. He almost single handedly gave the fans of Milwaukee the only glimmer of baseball hope that we’ve had seen since 1982. The guy went 3 straight high pressure starts on 3 days rest in a row just to get the Brewers into the playoffs. He was jeopardizing his future and his millions to do that, not many free agents would run that risk. (Want a real jackass see Ben Sheets)
I HATE the Yankees with a white hot passion and thank God we don’t have to play them (anymore) like the Tribe does. But give CC credit for forcing the Yankees to outbid themselves, pay a $20million “Yankee tax” and getting the opt out clause!!!
The guy was awesome for our city and yours (except the playoffs, a grand slam in game 2…. seriously?)
I say all this now but I’m sure the first time I see him on a mound in pinstripes I’ll join the CC is a jacka$$ gang but for now I’m still basking in the glow of a wild card berth.
Thanks CC
I bear no ill will towards Brewers fans, none at all. But let’s be serious here — your experience with C.C. was essentially a fairy tale, and as C.C. himself said yesterday, it would be unrealistic to expect any pitcher to continue pitching at that level for even one more month, let alone multiple seasons.
You didn’t go through the good and the bad with the guy, you didn’t cheer him on while he grew up as a baseball player and as a man. You don’t have the same stake in him that we do. On top of that, you don’t have a rivalry between two franchises, continuously in the same two cities, stretching back over a century. (That is a distinction shared only among the Yankees, Indians, Red Sox and White Sox, if I’m not mistaken.) And while the Yankees-Red Sox hegemony cheats all the other teams out of certain players, they will never directly shove you out of a playoff spot with a half-billion in combined payrolls.
Bottom line, while I would expect you to be in sympathy with these sentiments, I wouldn’t expect Brewers fans to have quite the same contempt for the Yankees and disgust over the whole situation. I am glad that two small-market clubs found a way to help each other out at the expensive of all the other clubs, though, so we can enjoy that small fact.
While I understand where you’re coming from, Jay said it best – you guys lived a fairy tale with him for a short period of time. I think the only thing that would come close to the feeling 99% of Clevelanders are currently feeling is this – after spending 8 years watching Ryan Braun and Prince Fielder struggle, grow, and finally develop into league-dominating powers, the Dodgers go out and offer each of them 3 times what the Brewers could afford. That’s about the only thing I can think of that comes close to the feeling Clevelanders have.
The real question is...
would you rather be a winning jackass or a respected loser?
Oh, and if you choose jackass you get 161 million dollars.
by jacob brumfield on Dec 19, 2008 5:33 PM EST reply actions
Man you’re an NL fan – what the hell would you know about the Yankees?
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
they're better than you
because of the money
by jacob brumfield on Dec 19, 2008 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
Man, that Reds Reporter blog always sends us the real charmers, eh?
Jacob, my man, it is exactly my point that in taking that contract from the Yankees, you do get to have the $161 million, and you do get to go to the playoffs more often than not … but you also make yourself into a jackass. It’s a package deal, and he took it.
Having said that, there are many players who have signed megabucks deals for teams other than the Yankees, and I don’t think those players consider themselves losers. Kerry Wood sure didn’t seem like a loser in his press conference yesterday. Just because none of those players are on the Reds doesn’t mean they don’t exist.
Back to reality
You’re absolutely right about the fairy tale.
But for a town that has suffered a lot of bad baseball (not as much as Cleveland but at least you had the ’90’s) I am cutting CC some slack because the Brewers did everything they could to blow it in September and it was pretty much being able to count on CC that got us into the playoffs. Despite firing our manager with 12 games to go, despite Ben Sheets having another phantom injury, despite the disaster that is Eric Gagne and a whole host of other problems, it was CC who calmed the team down and put an entire organization on his back and took a step toward winning baseball.
The fairy tale was one heck of a ride. Too bad the big bad wolf (hometown boy Bud Selig) came along and blew our roof off.
Free market at its finest ...
You didn’t actually think the Steins would build a billion dollar park and not have something shiny and new to unveil it woud you? Adding CC, Burnett, Tex may end our dry spell.
Call it what you want, but if Cleveland had the Steinbrenner family at the helm you’d have hung several more WS banners over the last 30 years. As a Yankees fan, I’m used to this, but admit it is alittle bit overkill.
"Baseball is the background music of my life." -George Will
Could you move this comment to the fanshot about Jack Wilson? Jay’s given us a quota and I think this is the gem to get us there.
by NickFantana on Dec 24, 2008 10:02 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Ronster, you know nothing about how this game works.
The Steinbrenner family is not spending one dime of their own money on any of these contracts. They are funded by the fact that the Yankees receive $200 million more in annual revenue than the average club. They receive that extra money only because they are in an absolutely massive media market, which economists say can (and should) support SIX major league teams instead of only two.
I can promise you, if the Dolans could combine the media markets of three teams — let’s say, Detroit plus Cleveland plus Milwaukee — then they too would have the revenue to support contracts like these. This is not even counting the massive revenue that New Yankee Stadium will bring in, over and above what other stadiums in other markets could ever yield.
Quantifying Bad
If you were to attempt to quantify bad somehow, your baseball opinions would be a pretty good starting point.
I have literally no idea what this means and I’m legitimately trying to understand it. “Quantifying Bad”? What does that mean?
Can’t we quantitatively evaluate “bad” in all kinds of situations? An OPS+ of 45 over 300 ABs: Bad. Isn’t that quantitative?
Oh, I just checked ol’ Omar out. He’s a Pinstripe Alley poster. Who woudda guessed?
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
Oh, it’s even better than that. He apparently first registered under the name “faggot smasher”, then was told he had to change it, then changed it to the name of a TV character he apparently didn’t realize was gay. We are talking about a serious intellect here.
thats epic
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Dec 25, 2008 3:06 PM EST up reply actions

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