"The only thing I wish we could do was compete," [Pirates SS Jack] Wilson said in a phone interview...

"The only thing I wish we could do was compete," [Pirates SS Jack] Wilson said in a phone interview with the newspaper. "I wish we could go out and get some more players to make our team competitive. And, you know, now that this whole trade thing has probably blown over, that's going to be my new focus on the Internet: Instead of looking for my name and where I might go, hopefully, we might get some players. Because we need them."

The best cure for being kicked when you're down (Sabathia to the Yanks)? Kicking someone even lower when THEY'RE down. I love schadenfreude! I especially love how he says "compete" so many times. Who needs to win when you can you just continually lower your expectations?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3781630

6 months ago Avindian Comment 217 comments 0 recs |

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Comments

Pirates are working on a 16-season losing streak. The Phils also had a 16-year losing streak (1933-1948).

by odradek on Dec 23, 2008 6:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

The Indians play in Pittsburgh this year.

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 23, 2008 6:37 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I’m going for 200 posts in this thread. And no, I’m not willing to un-ban anyone to get there, because that would be cheating.

So, what will it be? Controversial judgment on a former player? Or massive off-topic digression?

by Jay on Dec 23, 2008 8:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I will not boo CC at the park this year, but I will boo Thome and maybe even shout out “My wife is my rock.”

Anyone got a problem with that?

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 23, 2008 10:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think you’re about 190 short right now Jay.

by talonk on Dec 24, 2008 12:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There is not much doubt that we’re going to reach 200, unless someone organizes a boycott.

by Jay on Dec 24, 2008 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think we’re pretty much to the point for LGT that massive off-topic digression is no onger massive off-topic digression

Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.

by Gradyforpresident on Dec 24, 2008 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

(1) H.H. Richardson’s Allegheny County Jail is filled with innocent men.

(2) The Pirates have had only two Cy Young winners: Vern Law in 1960 and Doug Drabek in 1990.

(3) Is it possible that Omar Vizquel is overrated?

by odradek on Dec 23, 2008 10:59 PM EST reply actions 1 recs

(1) H.H. Richardson’s Allegheny County Jail is filled with innocent men.

rec

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 23, 2008 11:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Innocent of what?

by Jay on Dec 24, 2008 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Whatever charged.

by odradek on Dec 24, 2008 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They have just a general, all-abiding innocence about them?

by Jay on Dec 24, 2008 10:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes. Most jails are filled with innocent men, victims of circumstance, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, miscarriages of justice, etc. In the words of the incarcerated. Yes, they are mostly as pure as the snow. Honest, upstanding people who happened to be minding their own business when misfortune came calling.

This is the pathology heard from many prisoners. Not many of them admit their guilt, at least to those on the outside. Prisoners always trying to “get over” on you.

Sometimes innocent men are jailed. Justice is fallible, for sure. But not to the degree that jailbirds tell it.

by odradek on Dec 24, 2008 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, I’m up early today. Let’s get started:

didyouknow: The Pirates used to be called the Alleghenies. It’s a proud franchise that’s been around forever. They have a winning record in their history: .506. The Pittsburgh fans I know of are ashamed of this generation of suck.

I saw Pittsburgh play the Nationals here in DC, and in that series I thought they looked pretty good, but the numbers suggest otherwise. I wonder why?

It’s their pitching. Just awful, easily the worst in the league. They’ve got pitch-to-contact guys throwing 60 innings out of the pen. They just have a dearth of quality arms, and no position of strength to deal from.

They’re weak on all other sides too. There isn’t even an Indians team that’s bad or unpromising enough for me to compare their situation to. Jack Wilson’s very right. They just need players. Good ones. Anywhere.

Huntington’s in charge and he seems to be doing the right things. It’s unclear to me if his relationship with ownership is as advantageous as Shaprio’s is with the Dolans.

PNC is, in my opinion, the finest MLB park I’ve been to, and I count about a dozen.

I’ve never even heard of Vern Law. Isn’t there some forgotten Pittsburgh middle IF who was really, really awesome?

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 24, 2008 5:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

hornsby?

Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.

by Gradyforpresident on Dec 24, 2008 1:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That’s a lot of work to up the post count by one.

by fwembt on Dec 24, 2008 1:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Good point — jhon, you gotta spread those comments out.

by Jay on Dec 24, 2008 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’ve been to PNC a few times, and it’s lovely. Still, I didn’t find it to be nicer than the Jake, and in fact I found it to be very similar but a little smaller and kind of bland in comparison.

As a serious question, what makes you think it’s a nicer park than the Jake?

by Jay on Dec 24, 2008 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think it’s designed better You can see the field from the main concourse. The skyline and river are framed perfectly and there’s a great variety of local food and beer. PNC was built after our park, so it only expected that some of the flaws are worked out. I was annoyed that the architect HOK built almost the exact same park for years (Camden, the Jake, Coors, Arlington) before building more custom parks. The only thing markedly better at the Jake/Prog/Gateway is the team on the field. I’ve always felt like they just took the blueprints from Camden Yards and flipped ’em over.

(Oh no, is this gonna turn into an architecture thread?)

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 24, 2008 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The Jake seems like a more refined version of Camden Yards, with more nice little touches. It’s a little smaller, too, and the basic design seems to work better at the Jake’s scale. Their similarity doesn’t bother me in the least.

I have trouble assigning much importance to seeing the field from the concourse — it’s not like you can actually watch the game from that angle and disntance, you can just see that the field is there.

by Jay on Dec 24, 2008 10:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I really like that big Yellow Bridge. I was also impressed by the views of the city which are important when the team is important. It’s a nice place to sit and hang out, so you can ignore the game.

by afh4 on Dec 24, 2008 8:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I can see that. The bridge is pretty bad-ass.

by Jay on Dec 24, 2008 10:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The Jake is up there with my favorites. I’ve spent too much time in the Jake to weigh it objectively. I like hanging in Pittsburgh, because it represents a change of scenery. I find the Park materially and aesthetically more appealing, but that’s very subjective. The river being right there creates a little suspense before every Darryl Ward at bat. The view of the city is awesome.

I think the bars close at 1 am there, which kind of sucks. I’m pretty drunk right now and looking forward to finishing the evening off at a bar (are they open Xmas Eve? We’re about to find out); if I were in Pittsburgh, we’d already be on last call and I’d be scrambling for wounded soldiers.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 25, 2008 12:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

team is not important. btw.

I really don’t like having to walk through that mall to get to the jake from public trans. I’m sure that’s not the only way to do it but I always find myself in that mall, confused.

by afh4 on Dec 25, 2008 1:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It’s not really “the mall”—there’s a dollar store and the sketchiest foodcort you’ll ever navigate at the top of the escalator. I’m the type of guy who loathes anything suburban, yet has no problem going to Tower City. You ever seen a movie there? It’s you, your date, however many beers you smuggled in and maybe a couple of other people in the whole theater. There are two competing stores that will airbrush any likeness, yourself included, onto a t-shirt on the ground floor (the highest rent of the whole “mall”.) Need I go on? I hate the mall, but I kinda love Tower City.

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 26, 2008 12:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sounds like I might actually like it if I ever did anything but get lost in there trying to go to the Jake,

by afh4 on Dec 27, 2008 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m a big fan of all of those yellow bridges. I’m a bridge guy. I like the extreme density of infrastructure in downtown Pittsburgh—massive retaining walls and tunnels and suspension bridges and skyscrapers and inclined trams all tightly woven together—it’s like a miniature gritty Hong Kong.

The Jake has the bridge aesthetic built into it’s skeletal facade. It’s a pretty unique ediface, totally unlike Camden in that it’s so open and animate. PNC is similar in this regard. I think they did a better job with the seating bowl and the ammenities at PNC, but both parks have very good circulation (unlike the Nat’s Stadium, which is awful). I like them both about equally.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 26, 2008 4:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

PNC has more advanced ketchup technology. Seriously, you just push a button. Meanwhile, we’re pumping like chumps.

by jds16 on Dec 25, 2008 11:41 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Pumping ketchup at Jake/Prog, that is.

by jds16 on Dec 25, 2008 11:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jake/Prog/Gateway is the unofficial/official ballpark name for LGT.

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 26, 2008 12:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry, it was pure laziness on my part. Gateway is a long word.

by jds16 on Dec 26, 2008 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And no onions, either. Cheapskate Dolan.

by odradek on Dec 25, 2008 6:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I miss my onions.

by jds16 on Dec 25, 2008 7:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Rumor had it last season that new and improved onion dispensers were due any day. They never came. I suspect they never will.

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 26, 2008 12:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The Yankees bought them all for their new stadium.

by odradek on Dec 26, 2008 1:40 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No, they bought them for Sabathia. Also, they bought the Brewers in order to reunite Sabathia and Prince Fielder:
(this one’s been linked here before)

by jds16 on Dec 26, 2008 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

So Sabathia is having computerized onion dispensers installed in his 85-room home in Far Hills, NJ?

by odradek on Dec 26, 2008 5:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wouldn’t you, if you could?

by jds16 on Dec 26, 2008 7:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Absoiutely. And ketchup and mustard dispensers, too.

by odradek on Dec 26, 2008 9:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yellow, stadium, or other?

by jds16 on Dec 27, 2008 2:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yellow mustard is basically not even mustard.

I mean, seriously, who actually likes yellow mustard?

by Jay on Dec 27, 2008 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I should’ve known you’re one of those people who fancies himself above yellow mustard. Like you’d rather go mustardless than resort to the yellow variety.

Figures.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 27, 2008 2:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yellow mustard makes me sick to my stomach. spicy brown mustard is delicious.

by APV on Dec 27, 2008 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Any yellow mustard at all?

Are you counting Honey Dijon’s, or the standard-issue industrial yellow?

I don’t mind it on a after-funeral cold cut.

I would avoid putting it on a Dog or any warm dish.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 27, 2008 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I pretty much hate yellow mustard of any variety, fancy or not fancy, and have since I was a kid. They literally make me gag.

by APV on Dec 27, 2008 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The after-funeral thing is kind of my point. It’s a cheap, institutional-grade condiment-like substance, the kind of thing you would get with your hamburger in your grade school cafeteria.

by Jay on Dec 27, 2008 4:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Jay, try to be respectful. This is a funeral, for chrissakes.

by afh4 on Dec 27, 2008 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There are some great German-made yellow mustards that aren’t cheap at all.

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 27, 2008 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I admit that I’m not a big fan of the yellow. I have a lifelong love-affair with brown mustards. Like it or not, Jay, yellow mustard is the most popular variety in these United States. I’ll insist on yellow mustard being made available for all of my life’s biggest culinary moments.

Wikipedia tells me there’s such a thing as Irish mustard. I’ve never had it (despite my Irish heritage), but I’m sure it’s much worse.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 27, 2008 7:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bertman’s: overrated? I vote yes.

by jds16 on Dec 27, 2008 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Absolutely not. Bertman’s is to mustard what the Indians are to baseball, what apple pie is to America…

by fwembt on Dec 27, 2008 4:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

… what excrement is to the Yankees …

by Jay on Dec 27, 2008 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

It is overrated, or maybe romanticized is a better word.

It is still pretty great, though.

by Jay on Dec 27, 2008 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think before I ever ate it, expectations were set too high by others. It’s good, and I love it at the ballpark. But at the grocery store, I pass it up for better mustards every time.

by jds16 on Dec 27, 2008 8:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It hurts my soul to admit that my wife likes yellow mustard.

Clevelanders, check your local Heinen’s for Tipsy Garlic Dijon mustard, made with beer. I’m generally partial to the grainy mustards.

by jds16 on Dec 27, 2008 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, hey, you already knew your wife had no taste, right?

by Jay on Dec 27, 2008 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

HEYAAAAAAAAAAA

by afh4 on Dec 27, 2008 4:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My wife’s taste is impeccable, with three exceptions. You already know two of them.

by jds16 on Dec 27, 2008 8:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You have to give the ladies a mulligan on Barry Manilow. “Mandy” is just a killer, it’s not even fair.

by Jay on Dec 27, 2008 10:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I saw a weird-looking guy at the store this week, and he had one of those plastic-squeeze things of yellow mustard in his cart.

by odradek on Dec 27, 2008 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly.

by Jay on Dec 27, 2008 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Mazeroski? Rennie Stennett?

by odradek on Dec 24, 2008 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Found it: Arky Vaughn. Both he and Kiner are a little forgotten, considering how great they were.

I need to get to Cooperstown. One day.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 26, 2008 1:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bill James thinks he’s, like, the best SS ever. Or 2B. Whatever he played.

by afh4 on Dec 26, 2008 1:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Second best SS after Honus Wagner. Kiner was pretty amazing for lousy teams. Plus he was a good announcer for the Mets.

by odradek on Dec 26, 2008 1:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Andrew regected that one ten rows back into the seats.

by odradek on Dec 26, 2008 1:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The statistical argument is kind of undeniable, unless you consider A-Rod as having passed him.

by Jay on Dec 26, 2008 2:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He had some pretty high error totals, but I’ll take James’ word for it on the defense.

Pretty amazing that he peaked at 23 (and what a peak it was), as if something held him back from even greater heights.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 26, 2008 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

An avid outdoorsman, Vaughan was fishing in Lost Lake, near Eagleville, California on August 30, 1952, when a storm brewed up rather suddenly. Arky and a friend were caught up in the turbulence, the boat sank, and the two men drowned. He was just 40 years old.

From wiki.

Weird. Also! His name was Floyd Ellis Vaughn.

by afh4 on Dec 27, 2008 12:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And he was born in “Clifty, Arkansas”!

Clifty! And in Arkansas! Everyone there has asses around their shoulders.

by afh4 on Dec 27, 2008 12:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Of course it’s possible he’s overrated — likely even.

The more interesting question is, is it possible he’s underrated. Note the recent discussion of positional value offsets on Fangraphs and in Rob Neyer’s column.

by Jay on Dec 24, 2008 1:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Why did the Pirates fail and the Indians succeed? Sure, Kevin McClatchey was a dumb owner, and they had woodenheaded GMs (hello Cam Bonifay and David Littlefield!). And they had terrible drafts (2001 first choice John Van Benschoten). And bad trades (Aramis Ramirez).

But they opened a beautiful new park in 2001. They were supposed to be positioned for a renewal, a change of fortune. What happened?

They’ve had one positive pythagorean season out of the past 11 (+1 in 2003), for a -23 underperformance.

by odradek on Dec 23, 2008 11:45 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I can’t speak for ownership, but they have been one of the worst managed teams in the majors over the past 20 years or so. Was there even a good reason at the time to let Barry Bonds walk?

by Jay on Dec 24, 2008 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nope. Had they signed Bonds everything would have been different. But they couldn’t take his boorish behavior (remember his run-ins with Leyland?). In hindsight, that might have been the single worst decision from that franchise in the past 20 years.

by odradek on Dec 26, 2008 5:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Adam LaRoche and Andy LaRoche are brothers and played for the Pirates in 2008. Isn’t that something? There was another set of brothers on an MLB roster over in San Diego last year too (Edgar & Adrian Gonzalez.)

Did you know Robbie and Sandy Alomar teamed up on 3 different Major League teams? Remember how much you hated Robbie before he came to the Indians including that time you called him a “disgrace to baseball” during the 1996 ALDS?

Oh. brother!

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 24, 2008 8:59 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I never hated Robbie — I always thought that stuff was overblown. In fact, I was more annoyed when he said after being traded that Shapiro had promised not to trade him. In my mind, there is a very, very low percentage chance that Shapiro ever said that.

Robbie remains one of my all-time favorite Indians. In terms of enjoyment of watching the games, nothing has ever been better than Alomar-Vizquel.

by Jay on Dec 24, 2008 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

One one hand, I usually dislike all-stars from another team that hit and field well at my teams expense, but when Robbie spit on that ump after striking out in Toronto I began to really dislike him. After the game, when he made the comment that the ump was just bitter about the death of the of his own 8 year old son, I began to despise him. MLB handed down a 5 game suspension, which the umps said should apply to the 96 playoffs not the begining of the 97 season, but Robbie played in the 1996 ALDS and helped sit down the Indians. At that point, I began to hate him. It wasn’t until well into the 99 season that I was able to route for him, and later fully appreciate his presence in what is likely the best up-the-middle 2B/SS combo you’ll ever se—but it took me a little bit.

When he was traded, I slammed the co-worker (ironically a native Baltimorian and Orioles fan) to the ground of our office when he delivered the news to me. I apologized immediately, but was pretty upset for a couple of reasons (the rebuild was obvious and I really liked Alomar at second.)

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 24, 2008 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

They must have had to notify you with a megaphone about Thome going to Philadelphia.

by odradek on Dec 26, 2008 5:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I have long coveted young Pirates pitching. At different times in my life I had extremely high hopes for: Josh Fogg, Kip Wells, Kris Benson, Ian Snell, and Oliver Perez.

I’m an idiot.

by afh4 on Dec 24, 2008 1:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

This sounds more like you wish you could date them than you wish the were on our team. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

by fwembt on Dec 24, 2008 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

oliver perez burned me, bad.

twice.

Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.

by Gradyforpresident on Dec 24, 2008 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

You kind of had that Baseball America-as-Victoria’s Secret-catalog thing going on.

by Jay on Dec 24, 2008 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Especially with regards to Kip Wells. Ooh boy.

by afh4 on Dec 24, 2008 8:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Zach Duke too, right?

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 26, 2008 1:44 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Naw. I hate soft tossers.

by afh4 on Dec 26, 2008 1:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You’re consistent.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 26, 2008 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought that guy was gonna be gooood.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 26, 2008 2:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

So did the guy I traded him to in my keeper league a few years ago.

by jds16 on Dec 26, 2008 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There is a really good Peruvian place around the corner from PNC park—well, actually it’s in the Strip district. Anyway, you can get a slow roasted quarter chicken, some fresh cut papas fritas and some pepper dipping sauces for around 7 bucks!

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 24, 2008 1:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

man i am hungry.

Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.

by Gradyforpresident on Dec 24, 2008 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I got gas just from reading that.

by Jay on Dec 24, 2008 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

What kind of person savors the schadenfreude from reading about the Pirates?

by Jay on Dec 24, 2008 2:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Expos fans.

by afh4 on Dec 24, 2008 8:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

If something had gone terribly wrong back in 92 or 93, and the new stadium funding fell through and the Cleveland Indians owner (I think it was former showgirl Rachel Phelps at the time) was able to move the team to Miami, would you be a Pirates fan?

I’m glad I don’t know the answer to that question, but I imagine that I’d have somehow adopted—after considerable grieving, of course—the Tigers, Reds or Pirates depending on who got the broadcast rights to the Cleveland market.

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 24, 2008 3:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I could have become a Pirates fan when they had Bob Prince broadcasting, and Dock Ellis and Dave Parker and Bill Madlock and Kent Tekulve and Stargell and Easler and John Candelaria (throwing dollar bills out of the bus window). The World Series winner in 1979 was one of the greatest African-American teams of all times. I would have had a hard time becoming the fan of another AL team.

by odradek on Dec 24, 2008 3:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Would those mid-90s Indians have won a championship if they had moved to Florida?

by afh4 on Dec 24, 2008 8:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Of course they would. Three or four.

by odradek on Dec 24, 2008 11:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Being in Florida just takes the pressure off.

by afh4 on Dec 25, 2008 1:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

200 will be nearly impossible when this slides off the main page.

by fwembt on Dec 25, 2008 9:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Never say Never!

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 26, 2008 12:34 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Valiant work you’re doing here. I fulfilled an earlier promise and bought a couple memberships to the League Park Society, one for my brother and one for me. I’m not sure what this means, or if I’ll ever have anything to show for the money spent, but at least I can say now that I belong to a Society.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 26, 2008 1:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Cool. I met some of the guys running the show at the Addie Joss Day celebration in early October and they appear to have gotten a good deal of support from some organizations that may actually help make this all come to fruition. I think the best thing here is that the city appears to understand that the remaining superstructure needs to be maintained because one day this rennovation/reconstruction is going to happen. The money doesn’t exist right now, but the LPS is laying a good foundation for the project to move forward at a rapid pace if the funding ever becomes a reality.

In the meantime, I’m looking forward to the vintage baseball games that will be held there this year. I don’t see any games scheduled yet, but I understand they plan on playing a few games with the park as their home field.

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 26, 2008 12:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The guys who run Addie Joss day are either a) incredibly awesome or b) incredibly, incredibly strange.

by afh4 on Dec 26, 2008 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Addie Joss was a hack.

by fwembt on Dec 26, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Q: Is Addie Joss the patron saint of LGT?

A: Road Jacoby?

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 26, 2008 7:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’ll try to catch one of those in the future. They get you on an email listserv or something?

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 26, 2008 6:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

hey happy holidays all

jay this is your present from me

Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.

by Gradyforpresident on Dec 26, 2008 12:01 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

hey, woah. what’s going on here. just read this thread for the first time. still way short, Jaysie… but here’s my present too.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 26, 2008 12:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe I should offer a prize to the 200th commenter.

by Jay on Dec 27, 2008 4:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I just got back from the CAVS game with my brother. People are really fired up about this team. The mood has changed even from last year. I’ve always been uneasy about the high-production piped-in drama of live NBA contests, but tonight there seemed to be that authentic, passionate support that’s characteristic of an Indians game held in the good times.

Lots and lots of Tribe gear among the crowd. It warms my heart to be inside of friendly lines.

It’s nice to see Ben Wallace seems to have the spring back in his step. He had an emphatic regection and a couple impressive jams. It gives me hope that there’s one last gasp of goodness in Dellucci.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 26, 2008 1:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

An emphatic regection? Awesome.

Sorry, I’m a dick. Can’t help it.

by afh4 on Dec 26, 2008 1:49 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m a little tipsy, it’s 2 am, and I wasted a half hour waiting for a bus at an inactive bus stop. On top of all that, I’m not browsing with Firefox at this moment, and I went one-round-and-done in every spelling bee the public schools forced me into. Forgive me.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 26, 2008 1:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

OT but there’s a poll on the MLB network homepage, asking who is most likely to live up to their contract, Wood, Rodriguez, Sabathia or Burnett?

First of all, only one of those players isn’t going to New York and that sucks. Secondly, how would you measure such a thing? I know BPro does stuff like this. If I recall correctly it’s WARP x Expected Value of each Win? Is that right?

If that’s the criteria then it’s got to be either Sabathia or Burnett because WARP doesn’t account for True Closer grit, right? So, given the choice, you’d have to take Sabathia since he’s walking on this contract after three years, right?

Final rambling thought: does CC re-sign with the Indians in 2012 after making his mint with the Yankees?

by NickFantana on Dec 26, 2008 10:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

OT

How is that even possible?

by fwembt on Dec 26, 2008 11:05 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Seriously, this is the perfect thread for this post.

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 26, 2008 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes. Yes, it (probably) is.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 26, 2008 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Tongue-in-cheek

by NickFantana on Dec 27, 2008 10:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Final rambling thought: does CC re-sign with the Indians in 2012 after making his mint with the Yankees?

No way. Only way he walks is if he can make more than the $23M or whatever he gets in NY. Not gonna happen in Cleveland.

by jakesinger777 on Dec 26, 2008 12:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I see an unlikely scenario where CC sits out with injuries the majority of his first 3 years and is pretty much shamed out of town (I heard the media there can be a bit harsh.) In the unlikely case that happens, I’d see him more likely to make that move to the West coast where he can regain his health and be as far from NY as possible. I don’t see this happening, but I’m not ruling it out completely. I doubt we’ll never see CC in a Tribe uni again. Did I mention I think this is an unlikely, but possible, scenario?

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 26, 2008 12:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You see him opting out of 4 years and $100 million-ish based on shame? Hasn’t he just demonstrated that he doesn’t have any shame?

If he has 3 great years, he A-Rods out of his contract and then signs a bigger one with the Yankees. If he’s hurt or sucks, then he rides out the contract.

by jds16 on Dec 26, 2008 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

No, he won’t opt out because of shame. He would opt out because he couldn’t tolerate the rancor. People throwing batteries at his Escalade. Screaming at his family. Sending death threats to his house in New Jersey. That might make him to decide to move along, a la Ed Whitson.

by odradek on Dec 26, 2008 5:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Does anyone know of substantial, documented evidence of the New York Media bogeyman actually affecting player performance? I suspect that for at least the vast majority of players, this is nothing more than a convenient way to explain aberrant performance. What, in CC’s past performance, indicates that he is unable to cope with scrutiny and pressure to succeed? (Playoffs: very small sample with counterevidence of his stretch performance of must-win games for the Brewers.)

Also! battery-throwing is the domain of Philadelphians, is it not?

by jds16 on Dec 26, 2008 8:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

George Foster has batteries thrown at his car after he had signed his big (disastrous) contract with the Mets.

Were Philadelphians throwing batteries at Dave Parker in right field?

by odradek on Dec 26, 2008 9:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ed Whitson in 1985 and 1986 is the archetype for big-contract players who couldn’t handle the crowds or the media. Some players just don’t like playing there.

by odradek on Dec 26, 2008 9:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But do you have anything but anecdotes to back up this idea that New York swallows up ballplayers? You’ve demonstrated nothing but the knowledge that players have failed in NYC. Players fail everywhere, often for no apparent reason.

by jds16 on Dec 27, 2008 2:53 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

How could evidence beyond anecdotes exist? What would convince you, a notarized statement? I imagine most players wouldn’t want to admit it if that were the case, or maybe the blamed something else because it was a contributing factor, not the sole reason.

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 27, 2008 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If I had a nickel for every time I left the “y” off off the word “they”, I’d be rich I tell you, rich!

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 27, 2008 12:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The evidence would be a statistical study involving players above some kind of quality threshold, perhaps using PECOTA projections, who switched teams. What’s the failure rate of those players, and is there any correlation with the size of their destination media market, or with the difference in size from old media market to new?

by Jay on Dec 27, 2008 2:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

A notarized statement would definitely not convince me. People misattribute the causes of failures routinely. I was (and am) interested in the question of whether there’s any evidence that the common wisdom of NYC chewing up and spitting out ballplayers is something imagined or not…perhaps a study along the lines of what Jay proposed below.

I am going to presume that such a study either doesn’t yet exist or isn’t known by any LGTers?

by jds16 on Dec 27, 2008 3:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don’t let the massive volume of posts here fool you. We are not known for showing initiative here.

by Jay on Dec 27, 2008 4:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’ve lurked for long enough to know that. But there was a sliver of hope that, between gulps of beer, someone might post a link if they’d accidentally found it while looking for good reasons to move Grady down in the order.

by jds16 on Dec 27, 2008 8:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nice.

by Jay on Dec 27, 2008 10:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nope, just anecdotal. I lived in NY when Whitson was pitching, and everybody was hounding him constantly, and he was thinskinned. He broke Billy Martin’s arm in a hotel bar fight.

Ed blamed the media, the fans, the city. He did pitch well again after he left NY.

According to Wikipedia he refuses to autograph any Yankees memorabilia. Ed lives in Dublin, Ohio.

by odradek on Dec 27, 2008 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Battery throwing is also a long tradition for Wisconsin Badger football fans at Camp Randall Stadium.

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Dec 27, 2008 10:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

He will opt out to force them to give him another seven-year deal, just as A-Rod did.

by Jay on Dec 27, 2008 2:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My first guess is that each additional year of a contract makes it that much less likely that the player will live up to the value of the contract. By the end of the contract, the dollars are just as big, but the production likely will fall off considerably. So as a first-order sort of stab at answering that question, I’d just look at contract length (assuming that we’re comparing players in the top tier of their job description for 2008).

If Wood fails, he’s off the books soon. If Sabathia fails, they pay him forever and sign Peavy for 8/$200M.

by jds16 on Dec 26, 2008 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

how could it not be wood?

Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.

by Gradyforpresident on Dec 26, 2008 1:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

As long as he saves 30 games, he wins… hands down.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 26, 2008 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If Sabathia pitches well and opts out, he’ll just be opting out to re-sign with the Yankees. Same thing A-Rod did, right?

by afh4 on Dec 26, 2008 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You use a leverage index to consider the value of a late-inning reliever.

by Jay on Dec 26, 2008 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

OK, thanks. So now I’ll go back and read Baseball between the Numbers. I’m pretty sure there’s a discussion of this in that book.

by NickFantana on Dec 27, 2008 10:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Brian Giles is not going to get off easy just because he is a professional athlete.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 26, 2008 2:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Brian Giles has always had crazy eyes.

by afh4 on Dec 26, 2008 2:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And this dog shouldn’t get off easy just because he’s a dog!

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 26, 2008 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Good stuff. Seriously, the ground work to get to 200 is already in place, but we’ll only get to 199 posts because the Dolans are so cheap.

/Typ. Tribe fan impression

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 26, 2008 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

haha.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 26, 2008 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Are there any players who’ve implicitly spoken out against the corrupt economics of the game, as Jack Wilson nearly did here? I know it’s a faux pas, but I imagine someone’s let the thought slip.

Who are the most vocal champions of this cause?

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 26, 2008 4:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Writers for the Boston Herald.

by odradek on Dec 26, 2008 5:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 26, 2008 5:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Chuck Tanner!

Signature to be named later.

by emd2k3 on Dec 26, 2008 5:46 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Tim Foli!

Signature to be named later.

by emd2k3 on Dec 26, 2008 5:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Omar Moreno!

Signature to be named later.

by emd2k3 on Dec 26, 2008 5:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Is this helping?

Bob Robertson!

Signature to be named later.

by emd2k3 on Dec 26, 2008 5:48 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Depends if it’s on topic, or onto some topic. What do these persons have in common?

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 26, 2008 6:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

for this thread, there needs to be a no-replying-to-yourself directive… or else the 200 becomes null.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 26, 2008 6:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.

by Gradyforpresident on Dec 26, 2008 6:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I believe that the above comments should be counted, since some of the others are compounded comments.
I’m not sure we’ll make it, but it won’t be for lack of trying on my part.

I saw a little Baseball Tonight on ESPN earlier today—my folks in Cleveland have a TV set, I don’t. Not much happening right now. Lowe. Randy Johnson. Manny. That’s it. Buster Olney was interviewed; he seems to think that Manny and Boras might come crawling back to the Dodgers for 2 years @ ~45, unless the Nationals decide to recruit him their premier player.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 26, 2008 7:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, so you’re one of those people who likes to mention casually that he doesn’t own a TV set. Should’ve figured.

by Jay on Dec 27, 2008 2:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Don’t you worry Jay, I’ve got that base covered: I’ve already attributed that to myself in a self-effacing way on LGT. I think GFP had brought up stuff white people like, and it came out of that. I’ll grant you that this was an unmemorable post from months ago.

I actually want a TV. I am sitting in front of one right now. I just tried to use the remote to turn it on, but the TV’s unplugged, and I’m too lazy to get up and plug it in.

It’s those damned vegan I’m living with in DC who won’t allow it.

I don’t think I really need it though. I can watch T-Pain’s music videos on youtube all day if I like.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 27, 2008 2:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m sure it was totally memorable, I just can’t remember it.

by Jay on Dec 27, 2008 4:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Why is that? Do you want to talk about it?

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 27, 2008 7:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I was being ironic. As in the Mark Twain quotation, “Wagner’s music is better than it sounds.”

by Jay on Dec 27, 2008 8:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

“When I was younger, I could remember anything, whether it had happened or not; but my faculties are decaying now and soon I shall be so I cannot remember any but the things that never happened.”

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 28, 2008 2:23 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Geez, if that ain’t the truth.

by Jay on Dec 28, 2008 10:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You can’t watch Celebrity Rehab though.

by afh4 on Dec 27, 2008 4:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What celebrities are in rehab these days? What are they rehabilitating?

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 27, 2008 7:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Rodney King was on season 2. So was the drummer from guns n’ roses.

by afh4 on Dec 27, 2008 7:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

And people say that its difficult to find good culture anymore… to think, if they’d just look at VH1.

by Fundamentals on Dec 27, 2008 7:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

If I sort of like Okkervil River and Explosions in the Sky, and I liked that Daniel Johnston movie, should I just go ahead and move to Austin?

by afh4 on Dec 27, 2008 12:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

My college buddy Austin just bought a townhouse in Austin. I went through town this summer and met up with him and his wife. We had brunch at “Magnolia”. Incredible. I had a the most delicious breakfast burrito ever made. The all people all over Texas were so friendly. Our waitress had the kindest smile, and I still haven’t gotten it out of my head.

Austin, Texas. Lots to do. High standard of living. Friendly people. Supportive of a wide range of human activities.

I should’ve applied to UT, but something is pulling me back toward home.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 27, 2008 12:46 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My problem with Austin is that it isn’t in the Midwest. I’ve lived at various places in the south, though not in Texas, and while I don’t consider myself an expert on the experience, I do feel confident saying that it’s very different than living in the Midwest. And I have learned that I am a Midwesterner. I’m fully aware that there is no city in the Midwest as dynamic as Austin. I’m also aware that the months January-March are brutal in the North. However, I feel much more at home in the Midwest and have always felt like a carpetbagger when I was in the South.

In other words, I don’t have any answers, but I do have a pocket full of change and lint.

by NickFantana on Dec 27, 2008 10:03 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’ve lived both places and I would agree you on most of that. The South (to generalize grossly) seems a more insular society than the Northern Midwest. As a general rule, I found the people to be considerably less friendly in the South. I spent a significant amount of time down there and cannot think of a time when I was confronted with the mythical “Southern Hospitality.”

by fwembt on Dec 27, 2008 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That’s because you present as a carpetbagger. You need to be properly introduced.

by Jay on Dec 27, 2008 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

While everyone has their own experience, I think the South is incredibly, overly, bothersomely friendly at times. I like it but my friends who came to school in the South were flabbergasted by the amount of conversation they were forced to make while pumping gas, shopping, or riding in elevators. Plus, everyone drives slower and let’s you cut into traffic.

I find the Midwest uptight.

As Jay alludes to, and I alluded to, Southerners will cool on you if they think you’re from the North and are going to respond negatively to Southerners.

It also depends on what part of the South. And your race.

by afh4 on Dec 27, 2008 4:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’ll also add that I don’t think the South shows at well in a visit. It’s not like the Northeast or the West Coast where there’s obvious stuff to do (well, there’s the Biltmore Estate) and a tourist culture. Anyone trying to visit the South either is there for friends or is trying to soak up some kind of atmosphere. I think it’s pretty hard to get a feel for what it’s really like until you’re living there.

Part of this is that Southerners are confused by what the hell you’re doing there. In contrast, if you’re living there and trying to find the cat food aisle, Southerners are pretty inclined to help you do that and also talk to you about their cat, which is named Butch. After their Uncle Butch.

by afh4 on Dec 27, 2008 4:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I was down there for three years. I will admit to being less than thrilled with the place to begin with, that could have effected how people reacted to me. In general (again) I just found the people to be more rude and condescending than those in the north. The part of the south I was in was Whitley County, KY. I have no idea if that makes a difference or not.

And your e-presence is very midwestern.

by fwembt on Dec 27, 2008 7:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think of Kentucky as sort of “push” South. I lived down there and have spent some time there; it’s a little more ‘mountain’ than I think of the true South.

Is the gulf states (LA, MS, AL), Northern Florida and up the coast to Virginia. The central-South (TN, KY, WV, and AR) fall into some sort of different category. Probably the same way that Ohio and Missouri or Kansas don’t really feel like their totally in one category.

by afh4 on Dec 27, 2008 10:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I tried to buy a bottle of scotch in Kentucky once. Very unfriendly response.

by Jay on Dec 27, 2008 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t get the whole whiskey/bourbon/scotch thing. Despite growing up where I did, my drinking tastes are more Northern-I like club soda all by itself and a whole lot of gin. Dark liquors are not preferred.

Though, most people tell me I just need to grow up with regards to dark liquor. I used to drink Jack like crazy but then there was a hairy night and I haven’t been as inclined since.

by afh4 on Dec 27, 2008 10:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

but then there was a hairy night

Was the hair on you or someone else?

by fwembt on Dec 27, 2008 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Oy, same with me. To this day I can’t do whiskey. Did a shot of Wild Turkey Saturday night and nearly died.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Dec 29, 2008 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I honeymooned in Virginia and really did enjoy that. Do you consider Va. more representative of the “South?” All I know is that I loathe Ky. now.

by fwembt on Dec 27, 2008 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

To me, Virginia is the South but only my Virginia. Northern Virginia is not, at all. That’s part of the North. Virginia Beach is weird but all big beach towns are-Myrtle Beach, for instance, is really weird.

But my Virginia, Central Virginia and south of there, is very Southerner to me. Richmond, especially, is one of the better and more obviously Southern metropolitan areas. Where I grew up the high schools had things like bring your tractor to school day, gave the first day of certain hunting seasons off, stuff like that. We had a race riot too.

by afh4 on Dec 27, 2008 10:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

What is bring your tractor to school day? Is that what it sounds like?

by fwembt on Dec 27, 2008 10:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah. Like during spirit week, where normal schools might have “pajama day”, schools where I grew up would ask kids to ride their tractors to school one day. So, the parking lot was filled with tractors.

by afh4 on Dec 27, 2008 10:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Awesome. I can honestly say we never did anything like that.

by fwembt on Dec 27, 2008 11:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Richmond is a pretty purple town now, even if it’s not quite Communist yet.

by Jay on Dec 28, 2008 1:07 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The high school where I teach at has “drive your tractor to school” day. And the first day of hunting season off. And that’s in central Ohio.

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Dec 29, 2008 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Rural Ohio, of course. I’ve never heard of that where I grew up.

And not everybody drive a tractor to school. They aren’t all from farm families, just a good percentage of them.

The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay

by Buckeye Brad on Dec 29, 2008 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I think that fits into the “Is it Country or is it Southern” digression.

by afh4 on Dec 29, 2008 9:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hehe, “real” Virginia.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Dec 29, 2008 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Actual Virginia is red for the most part, although nobody my age wants to admit that. DC is a transient place; it helps that most those transients vote blue I guess.

by afh4 on Dec 29, 2008 9:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ohioans drive slowly

by APV on Dec 28, 2008 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You were a carpetbagger. That’s why you didn’t like it.

I grew up in the South.

by afh4 on Dec 27, 2008 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I was a carpetbagger. But don’t get me wrong, it wasn’t that I don’t like living down here. I do like living in the South and have many friends from various Southern states. I just like the Midwest better. I like four seasons with moderate summers and being close to my family and Midwestern big cities.

Further, for my money, Midwesterners are friendlier than Southerners. Especially if you’re talking about a city of any size in the South versus a city of a similar size in the Midwest.

About you being from the South, I forgot that when I was writing earlier. Your e-presence is just so Midwestern.

by NickFantana on Dec 27, 2008 5:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I lived in 11 states before I was in the 5th grade, so I’m pretty region neutral on the surface.

But, my family is pretty much all things Southern and I lived in Virginia form 5th grade on, so I feel pretty southern.

I don’t know what a Midwestern e-presence looks like but I’ll take it.

by afh4 on Dec 27, 2008 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Do you consider Cincinnati or Louisville to be a part of the South? What about Maryland / DC? Just a little bit?

If so, I can say that I’ve spent time in the South. If not, then I haven’t. I think I want to.

Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF

by jhon on Dec 27, 2008 7:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Louisville, yes. Cincinatti/DC/Maryland, no way in hell.

by afh4 on Dec 27, 2008 7:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Being from the North, I consider Cincy a part of the south. DC and Maryland don’t have the same attitude about them, though.

by fwembt on Dec 27, 2008 7:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think there’s a tendency to group anything “Country” in with anything “Southern.” I don’t necessarily disagree with the inclination; my friend from Maine basically grew up the same way I did except with lobster-lots of country music, field parties, pick up trucks, etc.

That said, there are some things that I find distinctively Southern that you can’t get somewhere like Maine (or, I suspect, Cincinnati though I don’t know it as well): barbecue that doesn’t involve hot dogs or hamburgers, and real, real sweet tea.

by afh4 on Dec 27, 2008 10:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Cincinnati is an enigma to me. I don’t consider it part of the Ohio that I thoroughly enjoy but you apparently, do not consider it Southern. Based on conversation below, Kentucky seems some sort of hybrid, would Cincy fit there?

by fwembt on Dec 27, 2008 10:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe. I don’t really know Cincy well. All I know is no one in the South is thinking of any part of Ohio as Southern. We don’t really think of WV as all that Southern.

by afh4 on Dec 27, 2008 10:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

WV is mostly hill people (I think). I know no one up here considers them Southern. By the same token, we do consider Cincinnatians to be semi-Southern. I wonder what the take is from someone not in this portion of the country.

200.

by fwembt on Dec 27, 2008 10:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I live in Illinois now, so what do I know.

by afh4 on Dec 27, 2008 10:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

no, sir. I believe I got 200 all by luck… my first visit to the site in hours and it said 199.

Oh, well… you can have it.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 27, 2008 10:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It’s a time stamp tie, I see. Well played.

by fwembt on Dec 27, 2008 11:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It is hard to find hipsters in Chicago. You will forever be shunned by neighbors should you choose to live anywhere but Austin or Portland.

by jds16 on Dec 27, 2008 12:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Crap. That was a reply to afh4.

by jds16 on Dec 27, 2008 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, the humanity.

by Jay on Dec 27, 2008 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I have become that which I despise.

by jds16 on Dec 27, 2008 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

You stared into the abyss …

by Jay on Dec 27, 2008 4:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not a hipster. I have some “hipster” tastes in music and such, like most twenty-somethings, but overall I dress too much like my mother wants me to. And I don’t live in bucktown or wicker park.

by afh4 on Dec 27, 2008 4:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs