Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Phil Mickelson Outshines Tiger Woods

I did a little guest spot on OverTheMonster, expanding on the topic what distinguishes mere mercenaries from real jackasses, the long history of non-rivalry between Boston and Cleveland, and what small differences still remain between the Red Sox and the Yankees.

about 3 years ago Dosequisman_tiny Jay 34 comments 0 recs  | 

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

Great article.

Also, I think I’m going to start using the saying “MFY”

by world dictator on Dec 21, 2008 11:16 PM EST reply actions  

I’ve been thinking about just calling them the Yankers from now on. Yanker shortstop Derek Jeter, Yanker ownership, front-running Yanker fans.

by Jay on Dec 21, 2008 11:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe it’s just because I grew up in the South, but I’m fairly satisfied with the inherent pejorative value of the name “Yankees.” There’s not really anything more that needs to be said.

by still ill on Dec 22, 2008 3:47 AM EST up reply actions  

You just sent me into fits. My first job out of college was in North Carolina and every time I was called a Yankee—even in jest—it raised my hackles because of the baseball connotation. Believe me, I was happy to be distinguished as a Northerner, but I hated the association with the Evil Empire that is the Yankees.

On a side note, there a tons of Indians fans in North Carolina. I put in a lot of nights at Grainger stadium back in those days.

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 22, 2008 10:34 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah I found Indians stuff at two different antique stores in Burlington, NC once.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Dec 22, 2008 6:24 PM EST up reply actions  

That makes sense. Burlington hosted an Indians affiliated Rookie ball baseball club for years. The team still exists, but they’re a Royals affiliate now.

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 22, 2008 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Ah, right. I knew there was some sort of official connection. My roommate, who’s from Durham, has mentioned that before.

It was cool, I found a Bob Feller autographed picture and, in a different store, reprints of the PD from our Series victories in 1920 and 1948. I’m kicking myself for not buying all of those things.

Burn on, big river, burn on...

by Turkmenbashi on Dec 23, 2008 12:21 AM EST up reply actions  

All they need is a pitcher named Bullington.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 23, 2008 10:04 PM EST up reply actions  

A guy’s moniker at OTM is 0157H7? Geez that is way too soon. Too soon after what, I’m not sure, but it just feels too soon.

by supermarioelia on Dec 21, 2008 11:30 PM EST reply actions  

I bet he just spews verbal diarrhea all day over there

by APV on Dec 22, 2008 8:30 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

“disgusting yankee filth” is a great tag.

by cleveland teamer on Dec 22, 2008 9:33 AM EST reply actions  

Great story, Jay, and you’re comment using CC’s projected value to show how much the Yankees overpaid is masterful.

While I agree with most of your positions, I am not prepared to give the Red Sox a pass for the creation of competitive imbalance. The Red Sox, along with the other big spending major market teams, are also culpable for expanding payroll, driving the prices up which perpetuates increased spending by all of the teams in general and the Yankees in particular. It’s a vicious cycle, and they are a party to it.

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Dec 22, 2008 11:20 AM EST reply actions  

I agree they are a party to it, i.e., undeniably a part of the problem. At the same time, if you look at all the top spending teams, which other one is facing a challenge within their own division, from a team that spends an order of magnitude even higher?

New York Yankees $ 209,081,577
New York Mets $ 137,793,376
Detroit Tigers $ 137,685,196
Boston Red Sox $ 133,390,035
Chicago White Sox $ 121,189,332
Los Angeles Angels $ 119,216,333
Los Angeles Dodgers $ 118,588,536
Chicago Cubs $ 118,345,833
Seattle Mariners $ 117,666,482
Atlanta Braves $ 102,365,683
St. Louis Cardinals $ 99,624,449
[12-16 – Phillies, Jays, Astros, Brewers, Indians]
San Francisco Giants $ 76,594,500

Look at it by division:

• The Red Sox are outspent by the Yankees — $76 million
• The White Sox are outspent by the Tigers — $16 million
• The Mariners are outspent by the Angels — $1.5 million
• The Braves are outspent by the Mets — $35 million
• The Cardinals are outspent by the Cubs — $18 million
• The Giants are outspent by the Dodgers — $44 million

So it should be clear here that the Yankees are in their own category, and the Dodgers and Mets are the next tier of villains, if we define “villainy” as trying to buy a title by spending about 40% more than your competitors can. The Red Sox, on the one hand, are much farther outspent by the Yankees than any other second-in-revenue club. On the other hand, they do outspend the Blue Jays by $33 million. The essential point remains, they are part of the problem, but what is unique only to the Red Sox is that they are one of the worst offenders of the system while also being one of its worst victims.

by Jay on Dec 22, 2008 2:54 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

You forgot:
Florida Marlins $ 1,987,432

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 22, 2008 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I take exception to a single point of all that you made here and there, Jay. Accepting the money doesn’t automatically make CC or anyone else a jackass, no matter how much they preferred to sign elsewhere.
Yes, I studied your example of the businessman with a record label.
CC could suffer a career ending injury in his first start in NY. Athletes’ careers are short.
The money that Steinbrenner overpaid is better left with CC’s family than Steinbrenner’s family.
CC became a jackass of his own volition by mouthing the words that Yankee marketers advised him to spew. CC is as aware as anyone else that baseball is broken and that millions of baseball fans around the country suffer anguish over the financial imbalance. CC could have taken the contract, smiled and shut his piehole.

by elsandito on Dec 22, 2008 1:33 PM EST reply actions  

I thought that was where Jay was going at first too, hence I defended CC when the Jackass thread was first posted.

But I think, and Jay will correct me if I’m wrong, that signing with the Yankees and taking their money does not, in and of itself, make the player a jackass. It’s signing onto the Yankee’s company line of aura, mystique, a tradition of excellence that was built on hard work, determination and skill among players and within the organization. When CC talked about coming to NY because it was the place where he could win and about getting chills when he said he was on the Yankees was when he became a jackass.

"It's hard to win when you don't score." Cliff Lee, 9/28/05.

by Harry Doyle on Dec 22, 2008 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, as long as we can agree that he became a jackass somewhere in there, I see little point in arguing about it.

by Jay on Dec 22, 2008 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I fail to see how the money is better left in Sabathia’s family than in Steinbrenner’s. If anything, I’m sure the Steinbrenner family is more practiced at large-scale philanthropy and/or investment that might lead to job creation, i.e., probably more effective at it. Who exactly is served by Sabathia ending up with more money? His family, four generations hence?

I see no evidence that you read or understood my analogy. It makes no difference who has a career-ending injury and when. We can assume off the bat that this is his last significant contract, but it doesn’t matter — either way, he’s worth $130 million or more. Shunning his prior priorities for extra bags of cash he can’t ever spend, allowing himself to become the best single example of the economic corruption that makes the sport into a competitive sham … these things make him a jackass. He can take the money, give it to his family, spend it on charities or whatever.

by Jay on Dec 22, 2008 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Whether or not CC himself lives to spend this money, or some member of his family spends it, is a measurement that you decided, it’s not an absolute measurement.
The Steinbrenners will have over 2 trillion dollars to either pay or save over the next 8 years. I think they will be able to muddle through with that total. It’s a far greater number than CC’s family will have an opportunity to realize. And the Steinbrenner’s duration of opportunity extends beyond the next 8 years. When your family has only one shot at the big pot, you make it the biggest pot you can.
Whether CC is or is not a jackass for taking more money can be debated. But, his proclamations about Yankee glory, after all the things he said previously, makes him a no doubter.

by elsandito on Dec 22, 2008 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Okay then, agree to disagree about the precise moment he became a jackass.

by Jay on Dec 22, 2008 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

How about: the instant he put on that hat?

by odradek on Dec 23, 2008 1:12 AM EST up reply actions  

That was my gut reaction.

by Jay on Dec 23, 2008 1:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Whether or not CC himself lives to spend this money

Unless he really goes on a bender, he will have a hard time spending $130 million in his lifetime. Even MC Hammer couldn’t do that. Sabathia’s kids are set, and their kids as well.

by odradek on Dec 23, 2008 1:14 AM EST up reply actions  

People make poor investment choices and people get sick. Pretty soon you’re down to 65 million and scraping by.

by elsandito on Dec 23, 2008 11:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Reading those comments over at OTM made thank my lucky stars that I’m was raised an Indians fan and have LGT to read every day. I think rooting for the Red Sox stunts your growth.

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 22, 2008 6:03 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

You know what non “jackass” I wouldn’t mind trading for? The soon to be expendable Mike Lowell

by world dictator on Dec 23, 2008 1:32 PM EST reply actions  

How about 2 guys who didn’t have a chance to choose to be a jackass, and whose pitching careers were destroyed by society…?

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 23, 2008 10:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Well look who is playing the role of the New York Knicks. Enough of this Red Sox love. Screw them.

by hans on Dec 23, 2008 2:20 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

… and we’re getting Franklin Gutierrez when he becomes a FA in 2016.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 23, 2008 10:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Eff ’em. They might only be half as bad as the Yankees, but the Yankees are clearly infinitely bad.

Do the math.

by still ill on Dec 24, 2008 3:41 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Yeah, Jay’s closet love of the Red Sox has me worried.

by oxforddave on Dec 24, 2008 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Constantly updated Indians news, lots of in-depth analysis, live in-game discussions — and more fanatical and thoughtful Indians fans than every other web site combined.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Dsc01731_small
Some quick questions for the locals
Etat_small
Eric's 2012 Cleveland Indians Projections...
Its_alive-fstn_small
Oswalt > Carmona/Heredia
Topps1978-332f_small
Indians by the Numbers — #24
Avatard_small
Nickname Seeks Indian — "Country Peach Passion"
Avatard_small
Nickname seeks Indian vote — "Fridge Magnet"
Topps1978-332f_small
Indians by the Numbers — #23
Small
Seriously Go Get Carlos Peña Now
Avatard_small
Indians by the Numbers — #22
Avatard_small
Nickname Seeks Indian: "Fridge Magnet"

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Featured Poll

Poll
Will Matt LaPorta be on the opening day roster?
Yes
59 votes
No
140 votes

199 votes | Poll has closed

FanShots

Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.

Recent FanShots

Indians depth chart heading into spring training (from Acta's twitter account)
Cleveland reliever Vinnie Pestano had the highest fastball swinging-strike...
Oakland Out-Winnercurses MLB for Cespedes
Indians Sign Jon Garland
A look back at the last Tribe arbitration hearing
MLB.COM Tribe Top 20
Jared Goedert is Puddin Head Jones
Chisenhall v.  Hannahan
After watching Lindor in the Fall Instructional League, I have very little...
Coming off of an optimistic 80-82 season, is this the Indians window to win?  

See full post on Beyond the Box Score

+ New FanShot All FanShots >


Managers

427px-nap_lajoie_1913_small Ryan

Dosequisman_small Jay

Editors

3444ant_black_small APV

47b8dd28b3127cceb64839d9746800000026102bauwjrq3za_small afh4