Best Browns Coverage
Tis the season for a little cross-promotion. Please stop by Dawgs by Nature for all the latest on the Browns search for a new president, general manager, head coach and soul.
about 3 years ago
NickFantana
238 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
I grew up a die-hard browns fan, but due to the incompetentness of the organization, very few likable players, and a mostly apathetic attitude towards the NFL, I have really lost my passion for the Browns.
Exactly my feelings. I’ve gone from being a fan with undying loyalty to a fan that needs to be convinced to care again.
= me
The only interesting thing about this to me is that Pioli and Shapiro reportedly are totally BFF.
Hello Jay,
If I recall correctly, Shapiro had Pioli talk to the Indians in Spring Training (2007 or 2008) – they have been good friends for a long time, and I believe Pioli also began his career in Cleveland as well.
Another connection regarding Shapiro and another Browns’ potential candidate, this time for head coach, is former Jets head coach Eric Mangini – he is Shapiro’s brother-in-law (i.e. is married to Shapiro’s sister). Mangini also started his career in Cleveland as well.
Wouldn’t that be interesting if Pioli becomes the new GM and Mangini becomes the new head coach? They both have close connections to Shapiro.
I wouldn’t be surprised if that is the combination that comes to Cleveland (though I feel more strongly about Pioli being the new GM; I’m not totally sure about Mangini being the guy, but if the Browns want a coach with previous coaching experience, plus has connections to Cleveland, Mangini may be the best bet).
Some rumors also have the Browns trying to lure Josh McDaniels (the Patriots current offensive coordinater or QBs coach – not sure) to Cleveland; ironically, McDaniels went to my alma mater, John Carroll University. Again, another strong connection to the NE Ohio area.
In any case, it should be an interesting offseason for the Browns, and not so much in which players get added or subtracted this offseason or even what draft pick we choose (I believe we choose 5th in the 2009 Draft).
Just my 2 cents.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
Seriously……the “well-managed” NFL with the salary cap and whatever. Any league that allows a franchise like the Browns to up and move (Colts, too, for that matter), when the fans fill the stadium for a lousy product, because the owner can’t manage a successful business successfully…..well, they don’t deserve my attention as a fan. Yep, the Browns are dysfunctional, but so is the NFL.
by kennesawmountainwahoo on Jan 1, 2009 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, because baseball teams with loyal fans never move. Except the Dodgers. And Giants. And Senators. And A’s (twice).
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
Seriously? You’re comparing the recognition of the west coast as a good place to place a team (50 years ago) to the Browns moving to Baltimore because Art couldn’t manage his finances? And the NFL said OK?
by kennesawmountainwahoo on Jan 1, 2009 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
And Milwaukee and Montreal and Seattle. But MLB has been reluctant to allow its historic teams to move. Remember the White Sox going to Tampa? The Indians moving to New Orleans?
And the teams were failing financially because of lack of fan support. The Browns may have been failing financially, but it wasn’t because of lack of fan support.
by kennesawmountainwahoo on Jan 1, 2009 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think the Milwaukee Braves had a lack of support when they moved to Atlanta. Nor did Dodgers or Giants. Those were recognitions of more lucrative markets. And those were a long time ago.
Agreed. I was talking more about Montreal and the original Seattle (Pilots). And the west coast relo’s were really a population recognition thing. All different motives than Art’s.
by kennesawmountainwahoo on Jan 1, 2009 7:06 PM EST up reply actions
I kept my Indians fandom when I moved to Philly, but the Eagles are so much more interesting (and so SO much more well run) that I haven’t really worried a whole lot about the Browns. I mean, I still check their scores in hopes that they’ll actually manage to get an offensive touchdown one of these days, but.. yeah. Depressing.
DISCLAIMER: I may be bitter.
I feel kind of the same way, but I find myself turned off more to the hype of the NFL in general. The Browns being this terribly managed is just the icing on the cake.
And yet I say that but always end up watching and caring about football way more than I want to.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 29, 2008 4:36 PM EST up reply actions
Well, if Pioli gets the job, the Browns will make the playoffs in no time. And go back.
Which sucks.
Go Pats.
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
The Browns were probably my first real Cleveland passion. A few years ago I debated whether to give up my Browns allegiance or not for the basic reasons your outline. It pretty much came down to deciding I was still going to make an effort to follow the Browns or give up on pro football all together. I decided to stick with it (the Cleveland dies hard), but my interest is near comatose levels at this point. The lack of any continuity, not just from year to year but from week to week, makes it hard to care.
Not really. The other thing with the NFL is that unless you’re willing to shell out for Sunday Ticket or go to a bar (or your team had a fluky good record last year & gets scheduled for a bunch of Monday/Sunday night games), it’s hard to watch any particular out-of-town team regularly, so I didn’t pay the Browns a whole lot of attention last year.
DISCLAIMER: I may be bitter.
You have to find a friend who has Sunday Ticket and get their password for online access. I used my uncle’s this year and it was the greatest thing ever. Got to watch every single Steelers game from Boston.
by jakesinger777 on Dec 30, 2008 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
F#$% THE STEELERS!!!
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 30, 2008 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Steelers fans = Yankees fans
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 30, 2008 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
Right, minus the teeth.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 30, 2008 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
Nahh, you are thinking Notre Dame instead.
Yes the Buckeye faithful can be obnoxious, but the Domers equate to the Yankees with their multiple titles, “mythic legends”, way more so than the Buckeyes do.
Obnoxious demand for perfection every year? Intolerance of missteps? The best money + recruiting pipeline?
Except there are about 20 college teams that fit that description. How many baseball teams are like the Yankees?
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 30, 2008 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
Because certain programs are blessed with the resources to continually acquire the top talent in the country? This story sounds painfully familiar…
College football is a completely different sport than baseball. If you can’t understand that difference then we can’t have this conversation.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 31, 2008 9:48 AM EST up reply actions
End thread
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 31, 2008 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Gosh, we have so many people trying to pull off the heavy-handed tone these days.
College football is a completely different sport than baseball. That sounds about right. Entitlement to a flawless team because you have the resources to acquire top-talent? Yes, that is at least a parallel.
Once again, there are about 20 teams in college football that are like that — they get the top recruits, the top coachs want to go there, the fans expect to win every year. So there’s nothing special about Ohio State. As JK said below, the media doesn’t fawn over OSU like they do the Yankees. The Yankees are unique in baseball because they outspend everyone else by great margins. OSU is certainly not unique in college football; they’re just another major progam.
OSU fans don’t think they’re better than everyone else in the country (the majority of them); of course they think they’re better than Akron and BG and Indiana, but certainly not Michigan or Penn St. or Texas or USC or any other big-time program. Yankees fans think their team is better than every team in baseball and it should always be that way. I really don’t see the comparison.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 31, 2008 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
+1 – exactly why OSU is not equivalent to the Yankees.
The Yankees are pretty much one-of-a-kind when it comes to that “attitude” and sense of entitlement.
All of the following college programs, and probably more, think that they have to achieve a level of excellence:
Ohio State
Michigan (which is why it’s so painful for them now to endure this losing – they even lost to Toledo of the MAC conference!)
USC
LSU
Florida
Texas
Oklahoma
Those are the schools that really come to mind; you could make somewhat-convincing arguments for the likes of Penn State, Wisconsin, Florida State, Oklahoma State, Missouri, Boston College, Virginia Tech, West Virginia, etc., but the main point is, Ohio State is far from the only school and doesn’t exude the “entitlement” to a championship like the Yankees do.
The main reason the media is focusing on OSU and their fans is because they’ve been blown out of the last two title games, specifically by SEC teams. People now get the impression that OSU is overrated and don’t want to see them in a 3rd straight Championship game, and won’t. Of course, most of them don’t think they have much chance against Texas, which only time will tell (the fact the game is in Tempe and Texas is not in the SEC are better factors for the Buckeyes than the last two bowl games).
If I remember correctly, when OSU upset Miami in the Championship Game several years ago, many fans were actually rooting for OSU because they were considered the underdog and because many seen Miami as sort of this unbeatable powerhouse that expected to win and dominate every year, so again, there’s not just one college football team that thinks that way, unlike baseball where the Yankees think they’re superior to everyone else – that’s the main difference.
Just my 2 cents – no offense.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
I would make that list much longer. I think the following schools are similar to OSU with their fan expectations:
Notre Dame
Michigan
Penn St.
Miami
Florida St.
Oklahoma
Texas
Nebraska
Oklahoma
Texas
USC
Alabama
Auburn
Florida
LSU
Tennessee
Georgia
And that doesn’t include schools like Wisconsin, Virginia Tech, and Texas A&M which are just behind that level.
So, in other words, about 40-50% of college football fans are like Yankee fans, according to those criteria. That’s a pretty big list.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
50% of college FB fans are as obnoxious as TOSU fans? Hardly. I present an anecdote:
Two years now, my freshman and junior year at NU, TOSU fans have traveled en masse to Evanston for the TOSU/NU game. Both years – especially the first year but both years – the TOSU fans have outweighed we NU fans. Both years tens of thousands of people – by sheer probability, almost certainly not connected to the university, just TOSU fans like my relatives who just wish they had gone to TOSU – showed up on our campus and just turned Evanston into the perma-hellhole that Columbus is. We’re talking broken glass – everywhere – the stench of beer – drunken “that guy”‘s all over the place who felt uber masculine around a bunch of privileged “nerds.” My friends and I were harassed in a non-funny way, and some serious words were thrown around. And my group of friends is an abberation at NU – big guys who aren’t little sissies. This occured both years and only with TOSU fans.
Now, I am somewhat of a TOSU fan. And I know they aren’t all like that. But I have witnessed on several occasions a level of jerk behavior unmatched by any fans other than the Yankees fans I once almost brawled with in a bar in Toronto, and the hundreds of TOSU fans I know demand victory every Saturday. All my friends at TOSU say that when the team loses, no one goes out Saturday night because they are too depressed. Gimme a break.
Your little story has nothing to do with my premise. You talked about OSU fans’ expectations of winning and entitlement, and I just listed many schools whose fans have the same expectations, which you would compare to Yankees fans. That’s what I was talking about. And fans of those teams make up a good portion of college football fans.
Now, about your story, that sounds like what you’d get at most college football tailgating experiences. I don’t think it’s anything exculsive to OSU fans. Maybe not at Northwestern, but go to any public school and I’ll bet their tailgating is similar. But go ahead and assume that only OSU fans act like that. (By the way, I was at the past two OSU games at Northwestern and didn’t see much of behavior.)
Also, what is with the continued assumption that only people who go to OSU can be Buckeyes fans? Who ever made that rule? Most people start following sports teams at the age of 10 or 12 — did you know where you were going to college then? People root for OSU because it’s the local (major) college football team, just like they root for the Indians or the Browns or the Cavs. What’s the difference? And what about people who don’t go to college — they’re not allowed to root for any college football team? That doesn’t seem fair.
Maybe you know some OSU fans who are jerks — that must be why you have such a vendetta against them. I’m sorry about that. But please don’t assume that all Buckeyes fans are like them, because most aren’t. Just like the idiots who post at cleveland.com aren’t like most Indians fans.
Also, thanks for taking a shot at the city of Columbus. We don’t get enough of that around here.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
You paint those fanbases with too broad of a brush. Michigan fans I’ve found to be different from TOSU fans because people who attend Michigan tend to be different from people who attend TOSU, the states have different attitudes, etcetera. ND brings Irish-American nostalgia into the equation, which is a whole seperate beast. People in Cali and Miami have other things to do besides college FB. College FB really is gospel in Ohio – and the TOSU market share (I’m making this up right now) is enormous – probably, if not certainly, bigger than close to all of those teams mentioned. Whenever I drive to CHI, I find TOSU merch in gas stations all over the midwest.
I never said you had to attend a school to like it’s team, but I definitely think it is a little weird not to. I like to think of college sports as an extension of HS sports, and it depresses me to think of it as semi-pro, which it more realistically is. If you’re choosing to care about the extra-curricular activities of college students, it wouldn’t hurt for them to be – well – you’re “brothers-in-arms.” Different from pro sports, where we get the pleasure of seeing men who are experts in their field.
Why aren’t Berkeley fans jerks? Their school is in the best football state in the country. Their team is perennially significant. I just think the Buckeyes are overexposed, overextended. I say again, give them a decade of suckitude and that will bring some humility to the base. Just my opinion about this bro, and Columbus IS hellhole (insert crapeater grin).
Some data from the 06-07 season: OSU football ranked 2nd in revenue and first in expenditure: first row is revenue, second row is expenditure, in millions.
OSU TEX FLA MICH
Rev 60.8 60.9 48.2 50.4
Exp 32.3 18.4 15.8 12.8
OSU also has the most varsity sports of any school in the country. So of course it has the largest athletic dept. The football teams supports all those non-revenue sports.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
Like I said, the football team supports all those non-revenue teams, so it needs to make that much money.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Jan 1, 2009 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
There are jerk Berkeley fans too. I’ve attended a college basketball game at Berkeley where they totally harassed me, wearing, get this a Cal Poly hat. Now they were actually playing Cal Poly, but usually that type of behavior is reserved for acyaul conference foes, not non-conference games.
joeee, you are just trying to hard to make your case that OSU fans are this obnoxious unruly group.
Your bad experience or two with “those fans” at those games has soured you, we get it.
Please just don’t try to convince us that every other fanbase is a pillar of graciousness and niceness. That isn’t the case, and you KNOW it.
Ha, no doubt. All fanbases are jerks in their own special way. At NU, our pregame ritual is – I kid you not – to jingle keys at the opposing teams’ fans. Obviously, I refuse to participate in that uncreative classist ritual.
I still think OSU entitlement to a good team is top-notch, and in so much that OSU outspends everyone on it’s football program, OSU fans can expect top recruits from FLA, PA, and other pipelines. I mean, come on, none of us was surprised when we got TP? It was just a matter of course! I can’t wait for the day when Buckeyes fans turn the heat down. And, I have a lot of friends at OSU who get annoyed about the football obsession.
A lot of schools do that with keys; we did it. I’m pretty sure Va Tech does it.
I had never considered that it meant “we have cars” or whatever. I just thought it was something to do. I mean, everyone has keys.
At Penn, everyone always said that you jingle the keys on a “key play.”
Joey … not everything is a matter of class warfare. Northwestern is an academically elite school (or near-elite) competing in a conference of okay-to-very-good schools. It’s a special case and bound to have odd social consequences. I almost went there, by the way.
by Jay on Jan 2, 2009 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
So, in our context, the key jingling means, to quote the acclaimed wikipedia,
Also, students jingle their keys at the beginning of each kickoff, to symbolize that even if Northwestern loses on the field, graduates of other schools will park students’ cars in the future.
So that is ugly. Maybe if it meant we need to “key in” to the game or stay “key-n” against drugs I wouldn’t object.
I’m going to put this in the category of things I don’t trust wikipedia on. Duke fans like to claim they invented the “De-Fense” chant. And I’m sure some Duke fan has put that on the wiki at some point.
Uhh, sure.
I dunno Jay, Michigan’s an awfully good school and so is Wisconsin. But I’ll give you this: NU’s the only private school in the Big Ten – and Raquel Welch went there to boot!
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
So I’m saying it’s a very good school, you’re saying it’s an awfully good school. You think we can go ten rounds on that?
by Jay on Jan 2, 2009 4:44 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, we can go tens rounds on just about anything. I’m just saying there’s a coupla of other good schools in the Big Ten, only OSU ain’t one of ‘em – unless you’re into animal husbandry.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
It’s not just a good school, it’s a very good school.
Wait, which side am I supposed to be on?
by Jay on Jan 3, 2009 1:57 AM EST up reply actions
Chuck’s “lists” of which schools make the grade and which don’t is pretty darn chimeric. That said, Chuck, which Ohio medical schools are good??? Quick aside: I was in an Indians team shop yesterday and saw a rack of Indians magnets with first names on them – presumably you buy the magnet with your first name. I glanced at the rack and saw an “Indians fan: Jay” and started laughing out loud.
by joeee on Jan 3, 2009 9:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, CWRU is head and shoulders above any of the other Med Schools in Ohio. I’d put OSU you second or third with U of Cincinnati. By the way, Ohio has an unusually large number of Medical Schools – eight, I believe, if you count the osteopathic school at Ohio University.
OSU, around the time I was there had a number of issues. The Anesthesiology Department damn near lost its accreditation. The new Chief of Trauma Medicine, Dr. Clothier, had just been released from Leavenworth after doing a sixth month stint for sexually harassing the nurses who worked for him. Another OSU Med School grad and former IM Resident, Dr. Jackson, was caught and identified as the "Grandview Rapist". You may recall seeing a story on 60 Minutes about a guy who did ~6 years in the Ohio Pen for the crimes after being wrongfully convicted – even though he was identified as the culprit by eye witnesses. But the topper is this guy. If I get the time I’ll tell you how he got to be a resident in Neuro-Surgery at OSU.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
The expectations of fans of those schools are the same as OSU fans, but you’re right in that there are probably more OSU fans than most of those schools. Two main reasons for this:
1) OSU (Columbus campus) is the largest university in the country so there are OSU graduates all over the place. That is why they travel so well to bowl games, because in any major city there are a good number of OSU graduates nearby. Add that to the Ohio natives that are OSU fans who have moved over the country.
2) OSU is the only major college football team in a football-mad state, so most football fans in Ohio are Buckeyes fans. Michigan, Pennsylvania, Florida, Texas, California all have 2 or more big-time football schools to divide fans. Most people in Ohio are OSU fans, and Ohio is a big state, so of course there are many OSU fans.
So, yes, OSU is like the Yankees because they have a lot of fans and they expect to win. But almost evey OSU fan has a connection to the team, either through growing up in Ohio or graduating from the school, while there are many front-running Yankee fans who have no connection to New York. That’s the difference to me. (Plus, with college football is a different sport than basball, so Buckeye fans have a right to expect greatness every year. College football isn’t supposed to be an even playing field.)
You may think rooting for OSU is different than rooting for the Indians or Browns or Cavs, but I don’t see it that way. And I don’t think most sports fans do.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Jan 1, 2009 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, the shots at Columbus are getting a little ridiculous. It’s been covered, opinions have been voiced, let’s move on.
It appears that a significant amount of posters make their home in Columbus, so it’s pretty obnoxious for people to keep posting about what a terrible city it is.
Okay, true, more specifically: the part of Columbus that is the OSU campus on a gameday is definitely a hellhole, and the campus is large, so there is a large section of hellhole. Hey, Chicago has plenty of hellhole.
If you think the OSU campus on gameday is a hellhole, that has more to do with drunken college kids than being a Buckeye fan. I’ve been to other campuses for football games and the experience is very much the same — it’s just on a much larger scale at OSU.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Jan 1, 2009 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
Listen, I know you met a few people in Columbus that you consider hicks. That doesn’t mean everyone who lives there is one. I know a lot of people from Columbus, and they aren’t any different than people I know from Cleveland or Norwalk or Youngstown or other parts of northern Ohio. Can we please stop with the stereotyping?
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Jan 2, 2009 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
You guys are too easy, I took a shot just cuz Clark said he was tired of it. Relax, it’s just me.
BTW, usta live on Siebert and Grant, the break in rate there was worse than Ohio City. I’m still lookin’ for the German’s in German Village. All I found was a bunch of hairdressers and interior decorators.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
Absolutely not. At least all Buckeye fans have a connection to the team, either being from Ohio or going to the university (or parents in those categories). I doubt there are many fans in other states who jump on the OSU bandwagon. But you’ll find Yankee fans everywhere that have absolutely no connection to the city or team.
I know some Buckeye fans can be obnoxious, but so can fans from every team. I know many, many Buckeye fans, and most of them are nothing like Yankee fans (probably because most of them are Indians fans).
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 30, 2008 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
At least all Buckeye fans have a connection to the team
I love the idea, but there is no way you can say that.
I don’t mean the school — of course most Buckeye fans didn’t go to Ohio State, but I don’t consider that a necessity to root for a college football team. Most people become fans as kids before they ever know where they’re going to college, and many don’t even go to college, so it doesn’t make sense when people think only people who go to a certain school can root for their football team.
I would certainly guess that most Buckeyes fans either a) grew up in Ohio, b) went to school there, or c) had family from Ohio and the tradition was passed down. That’s what I mean about having a connection to the team. The Ohio State Buckeyes are Ohio’s team.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 30, 2008 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, I’ve found that OSU graduates tend to be less gungho than non-grads (education + lack of jealousy = a more temperate fan).
Possibly. I don’t really know many “crazy” Buckeye fans — like the kind who call in to radio shows and write to the Dispatch that everyone complains about — so I really can’t say.
I actually did go to OSU for grad school, but I don’t think it made me a bigger Buckeyes fan than I was before. I followed the Buckeyes growing up the same way I followed the Indians and Browns. Going to OSU allowed me to attend games, which gave me some of my best sports memories, but it didn’t really make me a bigger fan. I never went to Browns games as a kid, because football tickets were more expensive than baseball tickets, but that didn’t make me any less of a Browns fan than an Indians fan.
I never understood why people thought you had to graduate from a college to root for that team. I never lived in Cleveland; does that mean I can’t be an Indians fan? The Buckeyes are Ohio’s team and their fans come from all parts of the state. If you don’t go to college does that mean you can’t be a fan of college football? Or what if you go to a D-2 or D-3 school — you can’t root for a D-1 college football team?
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 30, 2008 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, living in Columbus, I have generally found the opposite to be true. Most of the alumni I know are much more fanatical about Ohio State than the non-alumni.
by woodsmeister on Dec 30, 2008 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
Many people I know are rabid Buckeyes fans who went to better schools. So they are more educated, totally not jealous, and yet more gung-ho.
I have a ton of friends at NU who are over-compensating, “look how down-home” I can be by rooting hard for the Bucks.
Sure, but you could probably say that about a lot of schools. I think most people root for OSU because, as Jay said, it’s THE state school in Ohio and represents excellence that isn’t often found in other Ohio sports. Plus it’s in Columbus, which means it’s the only think northern and southern Ohians could ever unite in common support of.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 31, 2008 9:38 AM EST up reply actions
Putting something in bold letters doesn’t make it true. It’s arbitrary that TOSU is what it is. There are plenty of states with conflicting public school allegiance. The only reason there aren’t OU Bobcat fans all over the place is because they aren’t any good, and are in a craptastic conference (sorry MAC).
Ohio is a huge state. We could’ve had a UCLA/UCB rivalry. We could’ve had U of M/MSU. We could’ve had Oregon/Oregon State….we could’ve had it a million different ways.
here’s my thing. it’s a school. i didn’t go to OSU, so i don’t root for them. i went to cincinnati, so i root for them. i’m from canton, should i root for the mckinley bulldogs even though i didn’t go there? i know some people go to schools that have nothing to do with sports so they default to the buckeyes or their dad went there or whatever, but i just don’t get the level of passion – personally.
by Brick. on Dec 31, 2008 12:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Right, this is how I feel in general. I mean, I feel it’s OK for all Ohioans to root for the Bucks as I do, but I’ll never get passionate about it because I didn’t go to OSU. But since I went to Case, it’s nice to have someone to occasionally root for.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Jan 1, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
We could have, but we don’t. Ohio State is the only major college football program in the state (which is full of football fans at all levels) so most people in Ohio who follow college football are Ohio State fans. I don’t understand why this is so hard.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 31, 2008 1:25 PM EST up reply actions
They scared the hell out of me in ’02.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 31, 2008 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
As a BC fan who watched my team continually beat you when it doesn’t matter and lose when it does matter, I will be rooting for CIncy
I’m going to root for Cincinnati tomorrow. I root for all Ohio teams — except when they’re playing OSU, of course. Most of the people I know feel the same way. Just like I rooted for any local high school teams if they made the state playoffs.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 31, 2008 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Hello Brick,
Glad to see Cincinnati make their first BCS Bowl game, but I think that’s the main point – Cincinnati has had a Div. I football program for several decades (don’t know how long), yet they just made their first BCS bowl game (and the BCS has been around for around a decade or so).
Conversely, despite the negative publicity OSU has received from being blown out of the last two Championship Bowls, they’re playing in their 7th-straight (I believe) BCS Bowl game, no small feat, so the point stands that OSU is clearly the premier college football program in Ohio.
Perhaps, over time, Cincinnati can help to narrow that gap and perhaps create some sort of interstate rivalry between the programs that is somewhat comparable to USC-UCLA, Oregon-Oregon State, Oklahoma-Oklahoma State, Texas-Oklahoma, etc. (though likely much less than those rivalries), but that is still a while in the making until Cincinnati can consistently put up strong football teams for a longer period and OSU-Cincinnati are willing to play each other more often.
If Cincy can put up more quality football teams over the coming years, that would probably encourage OSU to play them more often; after all, if Cincy can’t remain strong, then OSU will have less incentive to play them because it will affect their strength of schedule (though they play some “cupcakes” during the season, so realistically, they could probably schedule Cincinnati in place of Kent State or Youngstown State and probably get a more quality opponent, so really why Cincy isn’t on OSU’s schedule a little more often is puzzling. Nevertheless, Cincy’s being a consistently stronger football team would help make this matchup more appealing and would likely encourage it happening more often).
Just my 2 cents.
The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.
When did you graduate Brick?
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Jan 1, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, Ok… longshot, but a couple of my good friends went to UC.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Jan 4, 2009 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
One was, which was why I asked
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Jan 5, 2009 12:13 AM EST up reply actions
I’ve actually got a diploma from OSU – not that I’m proud of that fact. I’ve been ambivalent about OSU football all my life.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
Yeah, because Ohio State is such an awful academic institution. You should really be ashamed your diploma.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Jan 2, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
so if Youngstown State changed its name to Buckeye State University, all ohioans are allowed to jump on the bandwagon?
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
Huh?? I’m sorry, but what the hell are you talking about? If a kid grows up in Ohio and roots for Ohio State, is that “jumping on the bandwagon”? Because that’s how most people become Buckeyes fans. What about a kid who grows up in Cleveland and roots for the Indians, is that jumping on the bandwagon?
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 30, 2008 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
If a kid grows up in [NEW YORK] and roots for [THE YANKEES], is that “jumping on the bandwagon”?
Yeah. TOSU=Yankees, my original point. Look, I vaguely like the Buckeyes as well, but when I go to the Shoe for games I leave with a little bit of vomit in my mouth and a little less love for the Bucks.
You’ll find plenty of convert midwestern Red Sawks fans in like Minnesota or some crap.
Yankees have a ton of fans because the NYC area is huge and spans a good 3 states. Let’s get it right: we hate Yankees fans because of their attitude and the way the organization is run.
I have no problem with people who are from New York and are Yankee fans — that’s their right. They probably came from generations of Yankee fans. I have a problem with bandwagon-jumping Yankee fans, in Ohio and other places, who have no connection to the city. Do you really think there are bandwagon-jumping OSU fans in Texas and Florida and Arizona? I highly doubt so.
Yeah, there are idiotic Buckeye fans, but there are also Idiotic Browns fans and Indians fans (there are just more Buckeye fans because they encompass the whole state). We talk all the time about the idiot fans who post at cleveland.com and act like they don’t represent all Indians fans, yet some people here assume the idiot Buckeye fans represent all of them. Why?
And if you’re talking about “the way the organization is run”, please tell me how OSU’s football program is run any differently than about 30 or 40 other programs in the country. I don’t get your point — OSU is NOT the Yankees. Sure, their fans expect to win, but college football is a completely different game than baseball. There are about 20 different programs whose fans expect to do undefeated every year. OSU is not unique in college football; the Yankees are unique in baseball.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 31, 2008 9:57 AM EST up reply actions
What if I did know people from out of state who were front-running Buckeye converts? Again, if we are talking purely about out-of-state converts, we need to look at the Red Sox first and hate on them.
Expectation to win comes with success. Give TOSU a bad 10 year stretch and its fans will come back to center.
Maybe there are some, but I doubt there are many because college football is a very local sport. No matter where you live, there’s a college football team in the area. Maybe not a major program in places like Montana and Wyoming but there’s a team. So you don’t get many bandwagon-jumping front-runners in college football. And those are the kind of fans I really hate.
In baseball, though, Yankees and Red Sox fans show up all over the country with no connection to the teams. Just like Lakers, Cowboys and Steelers fans. And those are the kind of fans I hate. I don’t mind Steelers fans from Pittsburgh or Yankees fans from New York — they may get on my nerves, but at least they have a connection to the team. I realize that if I grew up in Pittsburgh I’d be a Steelers fan and if I grew up in Michigan I’d be a Wolverines or Spartans fan. I hate front-running fans that have no connection to the team but just root for them because they’re popular and winning.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 31, 2008 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
Ok, here’s what I don’t get after all this… why is this such a big deal to you? If people root for OSU, how is that bothering you? It seems this has carried on way too long.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Jan 1, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah – I didn’t say that like I wanted to. What I meant to say was something I think I’ve said on here before:
I don’t get why most people from Ohio think they should be an OSU fan.
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
I don’t get why you think that way? Ohio State is THE state university of Ohio, the flagship school of the state, and it is the ONLY major-college football team in the state (until Cincy recently joined the Big East). It also has a great tradition. I don’t see why it’s so hard for some people to understand that most college football fans in Ohio root for the Buckeyes. It’s the one thing that unites the state. I’ve spent my life in three different parts of Ohio, and all three places almost everyone who followed sports were Buckeyes fans. To me, it’s no different than growing up in northern Ohio and rooting for the Browns or Indians or Cavs. I don’t see what’s so hard to understand about that.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
I think this is results-based analysis. OSU doesn’t have the unifying power we all think it does because of some innate property. Given a decade or two of sagging coupled with a surge from somewhere else (Cincy?), OSU could lose a generation of new fans. People passively front-run by nature – and why not, OSU makes us feel good about being from Ohio – that’s why you’ve found Buckeye fans in multiple locations. Nothing is a forgone conclusion, OSU will not definitely have the football grip forever over the state. It merely probably will.
Just like all of the Catholics who don’t root for Notre Dame anymore.
/sarcasm.
Signature to be named later.
I don’t think you’re completely mistaken, but mostly. Every successful team has bandwagon fans, but Buckeye fandom is a lot more persistent than you’re suggesting, and rooting for the big-league Ohio team in college football/basketball isn’t really any different than rooting for the big-league Cleveland team in baseball.
I’m not sure about the rest of you guys, but in my experience growing up, born in ‘84 in central Ohio, an hour north of Columbus, people largely rooted for one of three college football teams. The three teams were Ohio State (by far the largest), Michigan (much smaller, but still significant), and Notre Dame. You didn’t have to pick one of these three, but those were the three most popular choices. I also knew a few Florida State fans, go figure. The MAC schools and Cincy were rarely on TV or relevant.
Before the Tressel era, rooting for the Buckeyes was anything but picking the frontrunner. It wasn’t an elite program, more like a very good program. Since hiring Tressel, the program has moved back into the elite category. Since this transition back to the elite category, passions have intensified, allegiances have shifted in its favor, and the fanbase has generally become larger, and more obnoxious. It happens in sports everywhere, the Indians of the 90s were no different. If the Cavs win a championship in the next couple of years, we will see the same thing.
This isn’t to say that I think that rooting for Ohio State and the Cleveland Pro teams are the same. They aren’t. Ohio State has a lot of money, a lot of prestige, and is located in a good, but not great state for football talent. This makes them one of the advantaged teams, like the big market clubs in baseball, but not like the Yankees because they aren’t uniquely advantaged.
Yeah, no
Although football doesn’t come close to baseball in terms of what I like, it sickens me to see the amount of Stillers “fans” parading around Cleveland and the suburbs. You just don’t see any Browns gear or anything like that anywhere in PA, let alone Pittsburgh. These people are clearly frontrunners that grew up with the Steel Curtain or traitors that jumped ship in the 90’s.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 30, 2008 9:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
whoa
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Dec 31, 2008 5:51 AM EST up reply actions
The “Up” function came in handy here.
by supermarioelia on Dec 31, 2008 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
I think of it this way; Is there no other team like the Buckeyes. The answer is no, there are a number of college football programs that are similar with similar money, following, coverage and success. The Buckeyes are not fawned over by the biggest media outlets like the Yankees are. They are not expected to be in the championship game every year like the Yankees are, although expectations are high. And they don’t receive the coverage the Yankees do.
All fans are obnoxious when their team is involved an exciting game. But I think you can find many other college football programs with a similar fanbase and media coverage as OSU. You really can’t say that about the Yankees. That is the point, it might sound painfully familiar, but their not playing in a league of 1.
If you want to hate on Buckeye fans that’s fine. But I think you’re off on this one.
Exactly — using those criteria, you could compare the fans of about 20 college football teams to Yankees fans. So the comparison isn’t valid, because there’s only one Yankees in baseball. There are many Buckeyes in college football.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 31, 2008 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
Right.
Another key point that hasn’t been made here is that the modern Yankees tyranny is built on un-earned advantage, i.e., it’s just a quirk that they’re the team in the largest media market, and communications and the economy have evolved to the point where that’s of massive financial significance in this era. The Yankees did nothing to deserve an extra $200 million per year in revenue (to spend on players), they just have it by accident.
The major college programs, on the other hand, have been built up over a period of decades, but as far as I know, they have no intrinsic advantage outside of years spent building up the quality of their program and alumni and school support. In theory, any university could set out on a plan to become as successful and prominent of a program as the Buckeyes. This list of major programs is not set in stone forever, and the programs on that list have earned their place on it.
by Jay on Jan 1, 2009 1:24 AM EST up reply actions
And that list is flexible; as you said, programs can be built up over years and other programs can decline. A few decades ago, Miami and Florida State were nothing but they built their programs into national title contendors. Texas Tech is a recent example of a this. So if you hire the right people and recruit the right people, you can build a winner no matter where your school is (Lubbock, TX for example). That would never work in baseball; New York has advantages over other teams that they will never lose.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
“They [my grandparents] lived close to Lubbock, but not too close to Lubbock. You never want to be too close to Lubbock.”
—Nanci Griffith, introduction to “The Wing and the Wheel” from her “One Fair Summer Night” album.
by woodsmeister on Jan 2, 2009 12:40 PM EST up reply actions
I recommend finding your local chapter of Browns Backers. That’s what I did in Cincinnati. You get a whole bar full of Browns fans and get to watch the game with volume and everything. If you go to a generic sports bar, you end up with the Dallas game on the loud speakers and watching the Browns on some little screen in the corner.
by Ryan Kelsey on Dec 30, 2008 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
I did get into last season’s mirage/success, but I’m not sure I’m best described as a “semi-fan”, as I still follow them quite closely. Like APV, the Browns were my first sports crush: I remember vividly getting the Kardiac Kids 12 Days of Xmas album as an 8-year old and idolizing Dave Logan, of all people. (Were there Burger King commemorative glasses of the Kardiac Kid Browns?) That’s what makes this edition of the Browns so appalling — any fan worth his salt can see how mismanaged and unsympathetic they have become.
Interesting fact, Logan was drafted by all three major sports (sorry hockey!!!), just like Dave Winfield.
Born up in North Dakota, grew up in Denver, he attended University of Colorado after receiving 200 scholarship offers.
He was drafted by the Browns in the 3rd round in 1976 by the Browns. He was also drafted by the Kansas City Kings in the 9th round in 1976.
His baseball career never materialized because he went to college, but was drafted in the 19th round by the Reds as a high school senior.
He finished his NFL career with the Broncos (boo!!) and is now their analyst on radio broadcasts.
Irrelevant fact: I was named after Dave Logan. My parents were huge Browns fans and fans of his. When they were debating names, they settled on Logan for me. I’ve hated it ever since…
by Fundamentals on Dec 30, 2008 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
Not as much as I thought I would.
I grew up in a household where football was #1. I remember coming home with my parents, uncle, and grandparents from a family reunion on the day of The Drive. We drove back in silence, because they had taped the game and didn’t want the ending to be ruined by the radio. After the fumble, I remember seeing my dad, uncle and grandfather crying in one of the only times I can ever recall that. It hurt.
I didn’t have to deal with it as much, because of the move, I believe. I loved football like they did, but once the Browns left, it was just never the same when they came back. I still watch on Sundays, but I’ll admit that I’m much more following my fantasy teams than I am the Browns (By the way, even though I think I was the only one paying attention, I am still claiming a mighty victory in the LGT league this year). I root for them, but I just don’t care as much as I once did.
by Fundamentals on Dec 29, 2008 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
I view the Browns the way I do high school friends on facebook – I follow their status updates out of curiosity, am happy for them when they’re doing well, but have little invested in their day-to-day travails. Not coincidentally, the team hasn’t been really good since the last time I saw those people in the real world.
To spin a different precarious analogy, the team moving to Baltimore was the exposure to known carcinogens, the floundering incompetence was the disease metastasizing, and moving to cit(ies) with decent NFL franchises was the end.
by FredOx on Dec 29, 2008 4:38 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Fear the Sword…why not? ;)
Thanks for the plug Nick. Even if you guys don’t care much for the Browns anymore, feel free to come on over and join the bashfest on Triv ;)
Dawgs By Nature - Find out why Pittsburgh still sucks.
by Chris Pokorny on Dec 30, 2008 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
I would like the say that the guy who runs that site does a great job with articles and info on the Cavs. I join the game threads occasionally, and I suggest any of you who are Cavs fans should check it out. It’s new and there aren’t many people who participate there, yet.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 30, 2008 8:55 PM EST up reply actions
He’s carrying a huge workload too, as he runs both the Denver Broncos and Cleveland Cavaliers SB Nation sites.
Dawgs By Nature - Find out why Pittsburgh still sucks.
by Chris Pokorny on Dec 31, 2008 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
Really?? I did not know that.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 31, 2008 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
i gave up on the browns in week 2. it was a good decision for my mental health.
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Dec 31, 2008 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
I’ve meant to get into that. I like watching the CAVS, but I don’t have as much to say about it. I don’t understand all the rules of roster construction, like what a “mid-level” exemption means, and I’m not sure that I want to understand because it all seems a little fragile and bogus. I mean, I want salary controls in MLB as much as anyone, but I don’t want it to look like that, and I don’t want a situation where the top-level talent is so underpaid. The money has become a big part of my interest in the game.
That and I never played organized Basketball.
That and I never played organized Basketball.
This is the biggest impediment to my basketball fandom as well, and a huge reason why baseball is my favorite sport by far. I find it really hard to get into sports I’ve never played organizationally. I mean I only played peewee football for like a year but still, and at least I’ve played a lot of pickup basketball in my life. But hockey or soccer? I know they’re good sports, but there is just absolutely nothing you could do to make me care about either one.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 31, 2008 9:46 AM EST up reply actions
Hockey seems cool, but it’s too expensive and time consuming when and where we don’t have frozen ponds.
Right. And in terms of following sports, I just don’t have the energy to get into more than three major sports, especially with the amount of time I put into baseball fandom.
Tried really hard to get into soccer when I had a Lithuanian roommate, but the other huge roadblock is that I find it very hard to care about teams that aren’t from Cleveland (the Giants being my one “sort of” exception).
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 31, 2008 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
It’s funny that it works that way because I am actually a hoops fanatic who has played his whole life. Despite this, I don’t like the NBA for a number of reasons which I don’t want to get into right now. I think college basketball is awesome though and the NCAA tourney is the one sporting event that I am always fully interested in even if my favorite teams aren’t taking part
Having never seen you play basketball, I’m, positive that you would
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Jan 1, 2009 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
I love playing basketball, but I never played it unless you count club ball during high school. (Regret not playing HS ball.)
But I never watch the NBA until perhaps the Finals. I used to watch the NBA (was a George Gervin/Spurs fan). College basketball is much more to my liking, but with players becoming 2 and done in most programs, I find it much harder to follow with the constant roster turnovers.
Signature to be named later.
I feel the same way. The Cavs are fun to watch, but I can’t talk about basketball the way I talk about baseball or even football. So much of what I love about talking baseball is all the statistical analysis, and there’s not much of that in basketball (at least that I’m aware of). John Hollinger on espn.com does have his PER stat which is interesting, and he uses it for both players and teams, but basketball is such a team sport that it’s hard to break down stats individually (much like football). And trades are so hard to figure out because of all the salary rules that go in to them (and sometimes teams aren’t even trading players but expiring contracts). So, for me at least, basketball just isn’t as much fun to talk about as baseball. Plus I don’t follow basketball like baseball — I’ll watch the Cavs but not really other games unless they’re real big ones (like Celtics/Lakers on Christmas). I can watch any baseball or football game no matter who’s playing.
You should stop by for a game thread when you’re watching a game, though. Usually it’s just the moderator talking to himself, so I try to chip in now and then. It would be fun to get a real discussion going.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Dec 31, 2008 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
I’ll try to get in there… I’m trying to get more into the Cavs this year
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 31, 2008 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Hi, I’m LeBron James.
I am a Yankees fan, a Cowboys fan, a Michael Jordan fan, and an OSU Buckeyes fan.
Cleveland.com: LeBron Eager to Support Bucks, by Doug Lesmerises
Whenever LeBron James wants to burnish his credibility as an Ohio sports fan, he knows where to turn. “I would’ve been a Buckeye. I’m a big Ohio State fan,” the Cavaliers star said Thursday.
Thursday October 23, 2008
Uhh, why are you posting this, besides giving people a chance to bash LeBron again on this site? What does this comment have to do with any of these discussions?
Yeah I know — LeBron wore a Yankees hat to an Indians game. Who cares. He’s a great athlete who’s from Ohio and plays in Cleveland, and he’s a hell of a lot of fun to watch. He also has the best chance of bringing Cleveland its first championship in 45 years. Why don’t we celebrate him instead of bash him.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Jan 4, 2009 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
Ohh, I’m just having fun with it. I didn’t think I was baiting any flames here, because the Buckeyes ≠ Yankees campaign waged a decisive victory. Notice how no one has bashed him.
But c’mon, you’re kidding yourself if you don’t notice the trend here. This is not a random portfolio.
Hahahah – the Wizards – at home – hohoho! Yeah, they’ll beat the Celtics next week – sure.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
Chuck, come on. The Cavs are elite this year. And the Celtics lost BIG to the Knicks today, which is much worse.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Jan 5, 2009 12:15 AM EST up reply actions
Phil get with it, it’s 2009 already. You’re thinkin’ of last year when the Knicks stank and the Wizards were OK. Knicks record 13 and 19 Wizards record 7 and 25 – 25 . And the Knicks beat them in MSG, not the Garden. So let’s recap – LeChoke gags at home against the worst team in the Eastern Conference while my Celtics blow one on the road against and up and coming team. See the difference?
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
Two things:
1) The Cavs played in Washington, not at home.
2) Calling the Knicks up-and-coming is quite a bit of a stretch. They are playing better than last year, but its almost difficult to see them playing worse. They don’t have talent that has improved that team, instead they are just running an odd system that the majority of the NBA simply doesn’t run or practice against.
1) You’re right, I was wrong. They played in Washington
2) Knicks 13 and 19. The Wizards 7 and 25. Tell me again: How are the Wizards better than the Knicks?
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
I’m not saying the Wiz are better than the Knicks. What I am saying is that you billing the Knicks as this up-and-coming franchise is a trifle absurd. They are the same team they’ve been, only with a better coach. Talent-wise, they are not that close to contending. If we’re playing this game of who had the worst loss, the Cavs lost by 3, the Celts lost by 12. So, are the Knicks 4x better than the Wizards? Its a poor debate that is useless rather than simply saying both teams had bad losses.
OK, we’re both dancing around the issue. Here’s what I’m saying: the Celtics will ab-so-lut-lee crush the Cavs January 9 at the Q. Let’s see if I’m right.
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
Chuck, I don’t see why you’re taking pleasure in the Cavs losing. I’m not saying you have to be a Cavs fan — if you don’t care about basketball that’s fine. But if you’re from Cleveland and a Cleveland sports fan, shouldn’t you at least root for the Cavs to win. Why are you rooting against your hometown team? Don’t you want to see a Cleveland team win a championship?
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Jan 5, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
But LeBron isn’t a Cleveland sports fan — Chuck is.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Jan 5, 2009 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
sounds more like “But Chuck isn’t my hero – LeBron is.”
LeBron isn’t a Cleveland Sports fan – whatever the reason. You grant him that right. Chuck isn’t a Cavs fan – whatever the reason. Grant him that. People not fans of teams revel in their failures all the time.
Yeah, you’re right, LeBron is my hero. I have posters of him all over my walls and I wear his jersey every day. I want to be just like him when I grow up.
Seriously though, LeBron isn’t a Cleveland sports fan — I don’t like that, but many kids grow up not rooting for local teams for whatever reasons. As I said, I don’t like it, but I also don’t think that’s a reason to root against him. Chuck, however, criticize LeBron for rooting against his local team — then he does the same thing! Isn’t that hypocritcal? How can he hate LeBron for rooting against the Indians but at the same time root against the Cavs?
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Jan 5, 2009 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
the simple answer is “LeBron started it.” Or “Chuck hates the Yankees more than he likes what the Cavs mean to Cleveland.”
People from Ohio hate the Buckeyes. People from Cleveland hate LeBron for being a Yankees fan. You don’t understand why while they don’t understand why not.
I don’t like the NFL because ESPN ruined it for me. I’m sure you could find something within my other sports fandom that contradicts that, but that wouldn’t change my mind. You will drive yourself crazy trying to poke holes in people’s subjective opinions about rooting for sports.
LeBron started what — a feud with LGT? If so, somebody should probably tell him because I’m sure he has no idea about that.
I just don’t get why a Cleveland sports fan would root against the Cavs just because LeBron is a Yankees fan. Especially since we haven’t won a championship in 45 years and he’s our best hope for one right now. I would really like to know what people would do if Grady Sizemore showed up to a Browns-Steelers game wearing a Steelers hat and professing his love for them. Would Browns fans start rooting against the Indians? I highly doubt it. I just find the whole situation laughable.
I never once said everyone in Ohio has to be a Buckeyes fan, if that’s what you’re implying. I know kids grow up rooting for Michigan and the Yankees and the Steelers, either to be different and rebellious or just because they’re front-runners. I’m a teacher so I see kids who are fans of many teams. But I don’t get the rules imposed by some people here, such as you have to be an OSU graduate to root for the Buckeyes. If you don’t want to be a Buckeyes fan then I don’t care, but don’t make up your own rules for fandom and impose them on other people. All I’ve done is talk about why I’m a Buckeyes fan and why most other Ohioans are also. I never said anyone had to follow my ways, but I don’t know why you question them either. I would never go to Texas and question why there are so many Longhorns fans there or go to Kentucky and ask why there are so many Wildcat fans there (outside of Louisville, at least).
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
I never said anyone had to follow my ways, but I don’t know why you question them either.
please follow this yourself.
What are you talking about? All I’ve done is defend OSU fans against attack?
Oh, and I pointed out the hypocracy of Chuck hating LeBron for rooting against his hometown team (Indians) while he himself roots against his hometown team (Cavs).
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
I don’t mean to speak for chuck, but i’m pretty sure he roots against his home team BECAUSE of LeBron rooting for the yankees. hence the “he started it”. but he can clarify if not.
the bottom line is people root for or against teams for all kinds of reasons and it seems to me, like you get all bent out of shape when they don’t align with yours. let chuck hate on lebron if he wants. your pointing out his hypocracy ain’t gonna stop that old koot.
OK, I’ll say it again — I’m not getting bent out of shape. Other people are criticizing Buckeyes fans and making up their own rules for who can and can’t root for them. I was just trying to explain why people are fans of OSU. I’m not the one doing the attacking.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
Nobody has bashed LeBron yet because he hasn’t been mentioned yet. That’s why I was wondering why you even mentioned him. But there has been plenty of LeBron bashing on this site before, and I don’t see why we need to start it again.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Jan 5, 2009 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
I have a hard time seeing LeBron leaving the Cavs, but I think that there’s a small chance he take them with him. He and Gilbert. The whole thing.
It’s funny to me that no one every talks about Dan Gilbert’s interests.
Dan Gilbert never dropped 50 on the Pistons in the playoffs
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Jan 5, 2009 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
All the “LeBron is leaving Cleveland” assumptions are way too premature. I really don’t see him leaving as long as the Cavs continue to be a championship caliber team. Remember, he can make more money staying in Cleveland.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
He can make more salary if he stays in Cleveland. Whether that translates to making more money overall is anybody’s guess. Given the more lucrative local endorsements available in a market like NY or LA, it is possible that he could more than compensate for the loss of salary with increased endorsement potential.
by woodsmeister on Jan 5, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I’ve heard that argument before but I don’t buy it. LeBron is one of the most popular athletes on the planet — is he really going to get more popular playing in New York? The NBA is marketing global, not just in the US. Do you think people in China and Europe will buy more LeBron jersies if he’s playing in NY or LA? Of course not. I really doubt a move to NY or LA will increase LeBron’s marketing potential very much.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Jan 5, 2009 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
I’m also on the fence about this. The vast majority of LeBron’s marketing money comes from multi-year national contracts with companies like Nike or Sprite.
I have no concept of how much higher his local endorsements could get in New York, or if he even does local endorsements.
The big deal is how much you’re on TV and the NBA has already bent it’s schedule to LeBron’s will.
The truth is that LeBron has not tapped into the potential for marketing locally in the Cleveland market. Does he endorse anything that is local to northeastern Ohio? I can’t think of anything. Why not? They probably can’t afford him. The metro New York companies can afford LeBron.
That being said, I think the LBJ to NYC crusade is perpetrated by people who don’t get LeBron, and certainly don’t understand how he could enjoy or even prefer to play in his own home town in front of his family, and probably understate the value that he would place on staying put as long as the Cavs surround him with competitive players whom he likes.
by woodsmeister on Jan 5, 2009 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
While that seems like one plausible scenario, I also think it sounds plausible that there’s not enough money in local ads, in any market, to offset the dilution of his image.
I do agree he can make more money hawking furniture stores in NYC than he can in Cleveland; I’m just not sure that either one is a sound business decision and I think LeBron is considering that.
Also, is it out of the question that his current endorses have clauses that don’t allow him to expand into the “lower tiers” of marketing? It’s one thing if LeBron picks up a global sports drink to go with his Nike deal. It’s another thing if he picks up a car lot.
That’s what I was thinking. There’s a good chance that LeBron will forgo local ads altogether, either through his own choosing or through clauses in his contracts with Nike and such. He can make much more money with global marketing deals, so why would he even bother with local ads?
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
by Buckeye Brad on Jan 5, 2009 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
Chuck actually converted me to his line of thinking RE: LeBron. It took awhile for it to settle in with me, but I think he’s got it right.
OK, I’ll ask it again — if Grady Sizemore shows up at a Browns-Steelers game wearing a Steelers hat and rooting for them, does that mean all Browns fans should start rooting against the Indians?
What about Joe Jurivicious? He’s from Cleveland; if he showed up at an Indians game in a Yankees hat does that mean we shouldn’t root for the Browns also?
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
It’s not a good analogy, but if Grady were from Cleveland in did that, it wouldn’t bother me so much. I don’t even hate the Steelers. I wouldn’t wear a Steelers garment, but I don’t hate them.
It would bother me if Grady were spotted in the club wearing a Yankees hat. That would be very, very bad.
I’ve long regarded myself as a Cavs fan, and it was bugging the other day that I couldn’t bring myself to post something over at Fear the Sword. I think I now know why.
Mind you, this represents a drastic reversal from earlier opinions I’ve held. I had these thoughts just yesterday, as I happened to walk past the Verizon center. The Cavs happened to be playing and I caught some of the action on the big screen outside the building. It was a close game, possibly a good one, yet I had completely forgotten about it. I hadn’t anticipated it at all, as a matter of fact. I was involved with other things, released from any obligation to care on iota about its result.
If I’m going to be a fan of a team, I have to believe in the sport and in the league in which it operates. My NBA fandom is on shaky foundations. I find it both dull and farcical. I’m starting to view LeBron as a prop, and the whole NBA project as a bunch of ludacris hype. I don’t view LeBron as someone who’s important to the heart and soul of Cleveland. He’s important to Cleveland sports, sure, but I wonder if he’s no more important than Joe Jurivicious.
It’s too bad. He’s such a good athlete. It’s cool that one of the greatest at a particular thing happened to come out of our region but, well, he doesn’t have to be in a Cavs uni—or in Cleveland—for me to appreciate that.
If the NBA were that important to Cleveland there would exist a devoted following. How about on the internet: is there any mass of enthusiastic fellow-traveling Cavs fans anywhere? I don’t mean this as a criticism of its proprietor one bit, but Fear the Sword only seems to exist at all to fill the SB Network vacuum, and it’s a ghost town. Does anyone really care? Buehler? These is a halcyon era for the Cavs and internet-user groups, and yet no enthusiastic Cavs-specific internet community exists anywhere. It’s telling, I think. I don’t mean this as a complaint; I realize that I no longer wish to join one of these groups. The window has closed for me, personally. The window began to close with the Shawn Kemp experience, and even LeBron couldn’t save it once his honeymoon had worn off.
I was at a Cavs game just last week, and it was fun. LeBron has been a little fun. It was fun trying to crash his 21st birthday party. It is fun seeing that big-ass billboard of him against the wing of Tower City. It had fun throwing two fists of white confetti into my surroundings in sync with sold out Q last week (even though it was a made-for-TV fabrication).
LeBron has been fun. I still like LeBron, sort of. But I can do without LeBron, and I can definitely do without another guy in a Yankees cap.
I suspect that even if the Cavs win it all, it just won’t count as a major victory in my mind. I still care about Cleveland, of course. I guess I make up for not caring much about the other sport teams by caring so much more for the Indians. I credit my encounters with LGT with reinforcing my feelings for the Indians. I’d still care for them and follow them daily, even if this didn’t exist, but I’m quite sure I’d care less.
I speak only for myself here Brad. The Tribe’s the main event. I don’t feel 1 / 10 the passion for the other sports combined that I do for the team.
OK, there’s a HUGE difference with Grady wearing a Yankees hat — he plays baseball!! Of course I’d be pissed if Grady was wearing a cap for any other baseball team. LeBron wasn’t wearing a cap for another NBA team, he was wearing a cap of a baseball team. LeBron has shown nothing but love for the Cavs organization. Obviously if you don’t hate the Steelers than that analogy doesn’t fit, but many Browns fans hate the Steelers as much as Indians fans hate the Yankees so I was trying to make that comparison.
I understand where you’re coming from as far as the NBA. I’ve always followed the Cavs, but never as much as the Indians or Browns. I think most Cleveland sports fans feel the same way, and I’m guessing it will always be like that. Ohio has always been a football state and the Indians have been in Cleveland over a hundred years so they have a place in many fans hearts. The Cavs just don’t have the history or the following to match, and the NBA in general is behind baseball and football in popularity (across the country as well as in Ohio).
I know many fans on here don’t follow other sports as much as the Indians, which is fine of course. Most people only have so much time to follow sports, so they throw all their passion for the Indians, or they just like baseball more than other sports. But the Cavs have always been fun to watch with LeBron and that’s increased greatly with the addition of Mo Williams this year (it’s amazing what a good point guard does for an offense). As an example, my buddy and his wife live in Strongsville and they’ve become huge Cavs fans since moving there despite never following basketball before. LeBron is just so fun to watch.
Being a Cleveland sports fan my whole life and never seeing a championship has made me hungry for a winner, and right now LeBron and the Cavs are the best chance for one. Of course I’d rather have an Indians championship but I don’t get to choose that way. I don’t like that LeBron wore a Yankees cap to an Indians game, but I know that many kids in Ohio grow up rooting for the Yankees because it’s the cool thing to do. I had students at my school wear a Yankees cap on hat day and I was chastizing him for it, and he had no idea why I’d hate the Yankees. I was talking about how the Yankees outspend everyone else and buy championships and he had no idea what I was talking about. As people have said, LeBron grew up without a dad. He didn’t have anyone to take him to Indians games and teach him to be a Cleveland fan. He just followed which teams were cool or were winning at the times like many kids do.
There are pro athletes that cheat on their wives, beat their girlfriends, take steroids, do illegal drugs, drive drunk, and many other terrible things. Yet people still cheer for them. So I’m not going to stop cheering for LeBron because he’s a Yankees fan. That’s a very minor issue compared to what other athletes do.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
If I’m not cheering for LeBron quite as much as I used to, it’s more out of apathy than any kind of anger. I am moved to boo pro athletes who beat their girlfriends, drive drunk, etc. I haven’t booed LeBron for the Yankees hat. I’ve just found myself changing the channel.
I hear you on the championship. I’ll take what we get and enjoy it. It won’t be a weight off of my shoulders like a WS would, but it’d be an occasion to party over.
Hopefully Wallace and Varejao can keep up their good play. I’m happy they finally got a reasonable PG, but for the long haul we need our big guys to be competent in both directions.
Look Brad try to get your head around this. The Yankees are the embodiment of everything that’s wrong with baseball – no, no, check that – sports – nope that ain’t all encompassing enough – the Yankees are epitome of everything that’s wrong with America today. Yeah that’s it. And anybody that loves the Yankees hates America and all that America stands for. So I’m not saying that LeJadrool is a poor sport, or a poor Clevelander, what I’m sayin is that LeSchifoozo is anti- American. Yeah, that’s not too far over the top – is it?
Resident LGT beer kinda sewer
by mauichuck on Jan 5, 2009 11:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i’m in
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Jan 6, 2009 2:32 AM EST up reply actions
I know that, Chuck, and you know that. But the point is that most kids, when they choose a team to root for growing up, have no idea about the economics of the sport. That’s the point I was trying to make with my story, but maybe I didn’t do it well enough. Kids root for the Yankees because they see them on TV all the time and like Jeter or A-Rod or whoever. They don’t know their payroll or market size, they just root for whoever is popular. Especially kids without dads to teach them these things. I’m not saying it’s right, I’m just saying that I understand why.
The best thing probably is to hit [Grady] 2nd -- Jay
I sigh that we’re even talking about it.
As a sports hero, LeBron is awesome and huge.
As a sports fan, he’s just about the biggest douchebag you could ever meet.
That is pretty much the whole topic as far as I can tell.
by Jay on Jan 6, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
Featured Stories
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recent FanShots
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Five tips for Showtime’s second season of ‘The Franchise’
- The 10 best things about being a Detroit Tigers fan
- Surprise! A’s finally end the Yoenis Cespedes derby with $36 million deal for Cuban star
- The time Whitney Houston sang to Jim Bowden
- Pitchers and catchers! Mariners get early start in Arizona
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
