Tigers Acquire Jack Wilson...Indians Rejoice

The Tigers have acquired SS Jack Wilson from the Pirates. Beautiful if you're an Indians fan.

Update: Dombrowski is denying that it's a done deal.

about 1 year ago xrickx 31 comments 0 recs |

Comments

Note, too, that Greene, Furcal and Renteria all seem to be changing addresses (none of them include the word Cleveland). No surprises there, happily!!

by peter m on Dec 4, 2008 12:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Part of me thinks Renteria would have been a nice signing at 2B. He’s lost his range in the hole at SS, but he’s still good up the middle. I think that type of range plays well at 2B, assuming it transfers, because he can cover the hole between 1B and 2B. I don’t think his bat is cooked (see his second half stats), and I think it’s conceivable that he has a few more nice seasons in him. Whether that’s worth his price tag and shifting THREE guys (Renteria, Cabrera, Peralta) is an entirely different question. I’m really curious to see what infielder is going to be signed/acquired.

by xrickx on Dec 4, 2008 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

since the Pirates are gearing up for 2030 it could be Sanchez.

Fan in Texas

by fanintexas on Dec 4, 2008 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

i cannot root for renteria.

by Brick. on Dec 4, 2008 1:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs

Haha, there’s that whole thing…I think it’d be therapeutic.

by xrickx on Dec 4, 2008 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Just the utterance of his name always brings the visual image of Nagy watching that ball sail off his glove and it makes me want to vomit.

I would not likely have found the addition of Renteria therapeutic. I imagine it would take a play-off berth to get over the nausea.

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 4, 2008 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Most people blame Jose Mesa. Warranted, indeed. But what about the 11th inning Tony Fernandez error. It didn’t directly lead to the loss, but that error hurt more than Buckner’s error. It just wasn’t as egregious an error.

by xrickx on Dec 4, 2008 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I’ve never understood how Tony Fernandez’s foot got no hate, and Mesa took it all.

I don’t blame Nagy. Mostly, I blame Renteria.

Speaking of Renteria, don’t forget him throwing out Sandy Alomar at the plate in the top of the 9th. I was already pissed at him when he came up to bat in the 11th, so maybe I’m to blame for bringing the bad vibes. Stupid karma.

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 4, 2008 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Didn’t Tony have a couple of RBIs in that game? I think his productivity earned him a pass.

by fivekmd on Dec 4, 2008 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There’s no pass for botching a routine ground ball, especially one that could have been a double play or, at minimum, an out.

by xrickx on Dec 4, 2008 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

T-Fer had both RBI’s on a 2-out single

by Roger Dorn on Dec 4, 2008 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

he had a big homerun in the baltimore series too, if i recall correctly

by piersall on Dec 4, 2008 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I remember that Fernandez error – some speculate that the runner got in his line of sight and he just missed the ball, but still, with his experience and reputation, that’s a play he has to make, or at the very least, keep in front of him.

Speaking of Alomar, I remember someone mentioned the idea of his not running at full steam (though Sandy was never a burner) because he presumed that Renteria was going to go to 1B; when Renteria came home with that ball, the play wasn’t all that close. I’m not sure I believe that – I think both Mesa and Fernandez were the two key reasons we lost that Game 7. I too think that Nagy reacted quickly, just not quickly enough (i.e. Renteria got enough of that ball to get it past Nagy) to snag it, and with its location, neither Omar or Fernandez could get to it.

Let’s hope we erase that memory in the near future, regardless of whether Renteria is here or not.

Just my 2 cents.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Dec 5, 2008 9:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The thing about the Alomar non-slide is that there was no reason not to slide.

by Jay on Dec 5, 2008 11:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There was no hesitation from Renteria when he fielded the ball and squared up to throw home. Sandy was dead meat. It pains me to type this.

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 6, 2008 3:00 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Reasons not to slide:

(1) would break cigars in back pocket.
(2) dirties uniform.
(3) requires extra energy and effort.
(4) could hurt thigh or buttocks.
(5) thinking of something else at the time.

by odradek on Dec 6, 2008 8:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I bear no animus whatsoever to Renteria. After Joe Table gave it up every Indians fan was hoping for a miracle, but knowing in their heart of hearts that there are no miracles in Cuyahoga County. Everyone knew the Tribe was going to lose as soon as Charles Johnson singled. Hell, I was pretty sure the Tribe would lose when Mesa came in from the bullpen.

by odradek on Dec 6, 2008 9:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

People said basically the same things when we acquired David Justice, but we got over it.

by Jay on Dec 4, 2008 3:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The true rejoicing is what we got in return for him.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 4, 2008 3:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Justice went from a hated player, to one of my favorite Indians, to the rare Yankee that I didn’t hate.

by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 4, 2008 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

but Justice was really good for us

by APV on Dec 4, 2008 6:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, i never really liked him either. don’t get me started on ricky ledee, shane spencer and jose vizcaino. but for whatever reason, i loved me some marquis grissom.

by Brick. on Dec 4, 2008 8:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Greene looks headed to STL.

Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.

by westbrook on Dec 4, 2008 2:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

This is kind of what I was saying earlier, about Carroll. Yeah, he’s pretty eh as a starter, but he’s not Jack Wilson.

by fleerdon on Dec 4, 2008 4:39 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

So, the Tigers gave up one of their best young arms for one year of Renteria?

Awesome.

by Toxicadam on Dec 5, 2008 10:09 AM EST reply actions 2 recs

And a 4 star cf prospect, per Kevin Goldstein. Hernandez would presumably be the #2 best prospect in the Tigers system. Really bad trade.

by ClarkM on Dec 5, 2008 10:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It’s funny, considering the shock waves and sense of dread that came down when the Tigers made those moves a year ago. Those moves have halfway wrecked the franchise.

The only upside they have coming out of those deals is a first baseman who will OPS ~950 for them for the next seven years, but they’re paying him market rate at $20 million per. They gave up a ton to wind up with only that.

by Jay on Dec 5, 2008 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hello Jay,

I think this is one of the major reasons why I think the Indians sometimes “hoard” their prospects, to a fault at times. I think they are really concerned that a major trade they’ll make will blow up in their faces. And unlike the Tigers, they can’t “outspend” their mistake, though I think the Tigers will be hard-pressed to overcome this mistake even with money (which is essentially what allowed them to keep the one piece of the trade that has worked out well for them – Cabrera-, but what also essentially has tied them to a pitcher who will be a probable long-shot to regain a form close to or equal to his Cy Young form – Willis-. Of course, questionable decision-making went into that too).

Essentially, I think the Indians want as close to a sure-thing as possible when making a blockbuster trade where they’re acquiring the premium ML talent and having a strong team that is only a piece or so away from a championship before they make such a trade. Otherwise, I think they believe that the risk of what happened to the Tigers in the Cabrera-Willis trade has too great of a chance of happening and doing serious damage to a franchise’s ability to compete for several years, especially when they only have limited financial flexibility like the Indians. That’s likely why they weren’t willing to pull such trades off for Haren or Peavy – the cost and the question marks over whether we are legitimately just a piece or two away from a championship (we have too many question marks at this point) is probably what shies them away from such blockbuster trades and why we often have many prospects in our system, but often, don’t get premium ML-value for them (either via playing them at the ML level or trading them away for premium ML-talent).

Unless that ML-ready premium piece is under our control for several seasons (Peavy would actually qualify), I just don’t see the Indians making that type of trade this offseason, and that includes a Putz/Beltre deal as well. That just adds to the quiet offseason for us to this point. I think FA (Hoffman or Fuentes?), minor trades, utilizing our own prospects, and minor FA signings (like Ohka) is likely what our offseason will consist of, unless Shapiro and company unearth a gem of a deal they’re comfortable with, but I’ll be surprised by that for the reasons I mentioned above.

Just my 2 cents.

The "cream of the crop" doesn't always rise to the top.

by indiansfan on Dec 5, 2008 10:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Had kind of a similar thought recently, but maybe from a different angle.

If you’re going to have considerable, prime veteran talent on your team, you’re going to need to spend well into nine figures. The Indians aren’t.

Given that, you rely on young talent, locking up what you can, using your full 40-man, playing the hot hand. The issue with that strategy is that the reason there are hot hands among young players is that there are…cold hands?…among young players. Jensen Lewis, for one example. Asdrubal 2008, for another. We were short a middle infielder. Jamey Carroll got by. I like to think we could do better, particularly if the games had mattered. Aaron Laffey, while I’m at it.

But that’s kind of the point. Relying on young players means relying on, plural, more than one. I’m starting to take it as a given that they won’t all be Grady, because very few players are; they won’t come up and stay up. They come up, they do well, they struggle, they go back down. The strategy calls for depth by definition.

by fleerdon on Dec 6, 2008 7:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs