Rumor Mill dropoff
Because I needed somewhere to post this link. Consider this a dumping ground for any and all Winter Meetings rumors I guess.
"According to one National League executive, the Kansas City Royals and Atlanta Braves have had serious discussions about a trade that would send outfielder Jeff Francouer to the Royals for pitcher Zack Greinke. The same source said he believed the teams were close to executing the deal, but that Atlanta was holding up any and all trade discussions until the Braves had a resolution of their pujrsuit [sic] of right-hander A.J. Burnett."
Wait what? Jeff Francouer, 2008: .239/.294/.359
about 3 years ago
nickjs21
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I know how much everyone loves Gutz, but I’d be on the phone with Moore dangling him out there for Greinke as we speak.
You know Selig? Ombudsman.
Our love for Gutz is when we compare him to people like Mark Teahen. If Greinke is part of the discussion I’d put Franklin on the plane myself.
Steel Nick
I’d go much, much further. I don’t wanna show my hand, but I’d take this pretty far. Gutz x 3.
Helium Watch: Chuck Lofgren, OF
I’d have to see this trade to believe it. I can only imagine Guillen, Francouer, Jacobs, Teahen, and Olivo in the same lineup. Dayton Moore stressed at the onset of the offseason the importance of adding on-base percentage to his offense, and he’s going to field a lineup that goes an entire season without taking a walk.
That’s weird. They traded Delmon for pitching, and now they’re going to trade pitching for Delmon.
Steel Nick
Atkins —> MIN
Andy S/Edwin —> COL
Delmon —> TB
??
Is that what this is implying, or not?
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
Even if we’d offer something better than Francouer, I’d doubt that the Royals would trade Greinke within the division. Hopefully I’m wrong though.
I also saw that the Indians were interested in Kris Benson (reported by MASN online) and that contact was made with Kerry Wood’s agent (per Rosenthal). Of course there was also that bogus rumor about us being interested in Miguel Tejada. Luckily Shapiro shook his head at that notion.
btw … Yahoo’s Tim Brown says that the Rangers are shopping Michael Young. As good as he would look as our 2nd baseman, his 5-year 80 million extension kicks in next year and he has a no-trade clause. The Rangers are looking for pitching in return (what else is new …).
There’s no such thing as a 2nd baseman worth $16 million. Maybe Chase Utley if you’re an NL team.
by world dictator on Dec 9, 2008 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Kris Benson seems like NRI material to me being that he hasn’t pitched in the majors in 2 years.
DISCLAIMER: I may be bitter.
Pronk and Looch for MYoung. That way he doesn’t have to play D, and we can afford him.
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
Yes but he would still have to play O. 108, 107, and 96 OPS+ over the last three years. With no glove that’s not exactly sparkling.
Steel Nick
Exactly…You have to subtract from Young’s offensive contributions his defensive liability. That makes it impossible for him to earn his $16M. Then, factor in age-related decline. Then, factor in his needing to move off shortstop. And Kinsler’s not getting booted from 2B, so Young’s either a light-hitting 3B or a weak corner OF.
Interesting question…is it better to be a DH and not hurt your club with your defense, or is there some inherent value in not being locked into the DH role? My guess is that it’s team specific and it depends entirely on who is in the field in place of you.
Oh, and while we’re dumping….I hate the Cubs. The way this Peavy this has been handled by SD is annoying, but the Cubs are just getting Yankee ridiculous.
The only starting position player they drafted and/or developed: Fontenot, Theriot, and Soto.
The only starting pitcher they drafted developed: Zambrano.
Weak, Cubbies. Weak.
Agreed, that’s why the Cubs have climbed my hate hierarchy so furiously.
Burn on, big river, burn on...
by Turkmenbashi on Dec 9, 2008 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
I’m seeing the Bombers stepped up their interest in Burnett. CC in the NL appeals to me greatly. Go Dodgers, go.
Those pot-lickers at Over the Monster want Shoppach for Lowell and cash. Not even going to dignify that, except to say that I have my doubts about Masterson being enough value for Kelly.
Rangers bloggers think they’re moving one more catcher, probably Saltalamalphabet. To my mind, Shoppach remains more expensive than the other catchers, but also clearly superior. What’s that worth to you?
The Cardinals are looking for a starter or a back-end reliever, shopping outfielders. As much fun as Ankiel unbound would be, we’re kind of outfieldered out. They might match up better with the Angels. It’s too bad we don’t, because Caliheimgeles is just wading in infielders: Sean Rodriguez, Howie Kendrick, Erick Aybar, Brandon Wood, Matt Brown. Am I alone in sort of liking Erick Aybar? Anyway, they need power in the outfield corners, so I’m sure they’d open the bidding at LaPorta. I hate the Angels.
by fleerdon on Dec 9, 2008 12:22 PM EST reply actions
How awesome would the arms of a Gutz/Ankiel platoon be…
Travis Hafner is overrated. Clarity is underrated. David Dellucci is David Dellucci.
Ankiel’s throws from deep CF in a game in Colorado last year to nail two runners at third base are the best outfield throws I’ve ever seen.
i’m gonna go watch that clip now
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Dec 9, 2008 2:02 PM EST up reply actions
You’re not alone, I’ve liked Aybar for quite some time. I would trade him straight up for Laporta right now. Infield problem solved for many years, starting immediately. He’s already a top tier SS, and he’ll only improve at the plate over the next few years.
And I like Rodriguez as well, but not as much for us.
seriously? You’d trade LaPorta straight up for a 69 OPS+? No matter how good his defense might be that’s just a black hole in the lineup.
He’s not going to stay there. He’s a very good bet to be a better than avg SS at the plate and he’s already a plus defender. With his speed and dynamism I’ll take him to solve the skill position for a long time. So yes, I’d trade him for Laporta and make him the starting SS this year.
Considering Aybar batted over .300 over 2000 minor league at-bats where he was age-appropriate or younger, and just started getting steady ML plate appearances last year, I’d be happy to place a bet that he’ll end up being just fine for his position. And like I said, he’s already a plus ML defender.
As for Laporta, right now he’s probably overvalued. A very good prospect that will never play a skill position, will never be an asset on the bases, and could just as easily be the next Ryan Garko as the next (slugger of your choice).
No. Scouts never projected Garko to be a power hitter, and they project LaPorta to be a massive power hitter. Garko in 2008 probably was performing to his mean expectation — he was a fourth-round pick as a catcher — but LaPorta’s mean expectation is much higher than that.
Garko was drafted because of his power, not because of his fielding abilities, like Laporta. Go back to equivalent years – the parallels between Garko and Laporta are actually kinda interesting – both drafted as seniors, superior college sluggers, putting up great numbers at AA in their first full year at 23.
I think Laporta’s a better hitter than Garko was at the same age, but not by much. The point is the jury’s still out, and if I had the choice (just sayin) I’d swap him for a young dynamite SS like Aybar right now.
Garko was never considered a power hitter, he was considered a prolific contact hitter, and the fact that he might stick at catcher was absolutely part of the package — his most probable destination was backup catcher. He was never considered a major power threat, and precisely his problem in the majors is that he plays no skill position and never does anything valuable except hit for contact — sometimes.
I don’t think Shoppach for Lowell + cash is unreasonable. I’m not saying I’d do it, but I think that’s a legitmate offer from a non cleveland perspective.
I’d like to trade Shoppach for Lowrie but I’m sure Red Sox fans would scoff at that, just like a Shoppach for Homer Bailey trade would probably be scoffed at by Reds fans and Indians fan.
by world dictator on Dec 9, 2008 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t see Shoppach as being more valuable than Salty. It’s a coinflip as to who ends up being the better hitter, but Salty just has a much more favorable deal, and is much younger.
by Jay on Dec 9, 2008 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
Trying to do the math off of the top of my head. We’ve got twenty million available in cap space for the coming year and Shapiro is saying we’ll only have the ability to add one impact player through free agency. There’s no way those two facts are both true. Am I overestimating available cap space?
If the Indians spend $8M on a closer, by my count they’ll be right around $72M in payroll. Then, you still have to find yourself and infielder and a starting pitcher. If the payroll is going to max out at $80M barring a sweet opportunity too good to pass, you’ve got about $8M to find that infielder and that pitcher. Hrm… That’s why I think the Indians are best served by using Shoppach (or Victor, ahem) to grab a starting pitcher or infielder—it cuts a little off the Indians’ payroll and fills the hole, leaving that extra $6-8M to fill the third hole depending on how much is spent on a closer. The issue is whether the right fit at catcher/starting pitcher is out there in a trade, because it certainly doesn’t appear to be there on the open market.
Also Shoppach made less than 500k last year so payroll wouldn’t be trimmed that much. Itd probably a parallel move trading Shoppach arb salary for a young slightly more expensive salary. (Assuming we could manage to get that trade done.)
by world dictator on Dec 9, 2008 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
We’re not trimming last year’s payroll. We’re trimming 2009 and beyond. And not paying Shoppach $1.5-$2.5M saves a little bit. But it’s not really clearing his salary that’s attractive—it’s the prospect of not spending $10M to sign Orlando Hudson or dealing talent and paying $12M for one year of Adrian Beltre.
Last I read we only have $15 million in cap space. Believe I saw it in a Hoyes column.
by world dictator on Dec 9, 2008 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
Not that Cleveland is amid all these wild dealings, but it’s obvious that the Indians as a matter of organizational policy don’t leak as much crap as other organizations. Shapiro was quoted as saying they’re more active in free agent talks and trade discussions as they’ve ever been at a Winter Meeting, but you hear very little about possible scenarios. It gives the appearance of inactivity, but I appreciate the fact that the front office can keep its lips sealed.
someday i want Shapiro to write a tell-all
Anti-Ben Fran before it was cool.
by Gradyforpresident on Dec 9, 2008 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
But the agents have no interest in keeping things quiet and the potential trading partner’s FOs leak like a sieve. I respect the Indians’ FO discipline, but this stuff always gets out sooner or later.
by PatBordersHelmet on Dec 9, 2008 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
Castro backs it up on his blog and mlb.com.
http://castrovince.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/12/talks_with_wood_gaining_moment.html
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20081209&content_id=3708244&vkey=news_cle&fext=.jsp&c_id=cle&partnerId=rss_cle
Steel Nick
Castroneves (sp) agrees with this report.
So tell me, why do we want Wood again besides his good stuff? I’m not opposed to Wood, but I just never understood why having a good fastball is important to being a good closer.
With that being said, can you imagine a Perez-Miller-Wood 7th, 8th, 9th?
by world dictator on Dec 9, 2008 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Are you saying Wood is growing on you?
Steel Nick
by nickjs21 on Dec 9, 2008 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Why Wood? He’s got the high heat and the deadly curve. He’s a prototypical strikeout reliever. He can be used for more than a 3-out save. And Wood’s control issues seem to disappear when he became a full time reliever. He doesn’t give up hits, doesn’t give up homeruns, doesn’t walk people, and strikes out a lot of them.
He can be Joe Nathan.
by xrickx on Dec 9, 2008 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
oh yeah…and 3, as in the number of HRs he allowed in 2008
by APV on Dec 9, 2008 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting question. If reports are correct that the Cubs are willing to eat up $6 mil of Marquis $10 mil salary, do we throw the Cubs a decent but not great prospect for Marquis? $4 mil for a starter is not bad at all.
From the new Hoynes piece…
…Josh Barfield is not being excluded at second. Some nice-sounding non-comments from Shapiro and Wedge, and one piece of information: Barfield declined to play winter ball as the Indians asked him to because he didn’t want to risk re-injuring his finger. He’s got a lot on the line in 2009. Makes sense.
…Shapiro is still scheduled to meet with Furcal’s agent later this week.
by fleerdon on Dec 9, 2008 3:09 PM EST reply actions
Also, Cincinnati might be out of the catcher market; they’re talking about a deal with Baltimore centered around Ryan Freel for Ramon Hernandez.
by fleerdon on Dec 9, 2008 3:42 PM EST reply actions
Would Ronnie Belliard make sense at 2nd base?
He’s set to get paid a little under $2MM, shouldn’t cost us too much in return and we know what he can do. I like him alot better than some of the other names I’ve seen thrown around.
At second base, as in standing on the bag? Sure, I guess. Playing second base, the defensive position? Not so much.
Belliard had a great year defensively in 2005 and totally collapsed in 2006 — his contributions both to our success in 2005 and our failure in 2006 have probably been underestimated. We don’t talk about it much anymore, but the primary thing that sank us in 2006 was a total defensive collapse in the infield, which stressed our rotation and eventually broke the bullpen.
Belliard was 31 then, and I have no interest in giving up any talent at all to see what kind of season he has at age 35.
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