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Around SBN: Diego Sanchez and the Dangers of Fame in MMA

Rah-Rah

As odd as it may be, JD Martin's invite to spring training got me thinking.  For whatever reason, I've been rooting for him since his 2005 breakout season (56IP, 63K, 8BB).  Maybe I want to salvage something from that 2001 draft, maybe I have an affinity for short RHPs, maybe I sympathize with a guy who has talent but who has been on the injury fringe for the past few years. Regardless, it made me realize that there are a handful of guys in our minor league system that I adopt as "my guys", and pay attention to more than others.  

Star-divide

A few others also on my current list are:

Nick Weglarz - He's a popular pick now, but I think it was the small sample size of his high school experience - in Canada, no less - and the whiskey tango foxtrot of a very young third round pick in 2005 that put him on the list.

Scott Lewis - It was the courage of the pick in 2004 that did it for me.  More than the courage, perhaps, was what I thought was the intelligence of the pick - take a guy who struck out 36 guys in consecutive games and trust your medical staff to bring him back into the fold and give you first round-pick value.

I've got more favorites, but that's not the point of this diary.  The point is this: who are some of the guys you root for, and why?  Make me a fan of somebody I don't currently follow. Go.

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Re: Rah-Rah
I'm with you on JD; one of my emotional favorites.

by stuart dean on Feb 14, 2008 7:55 AM EST reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
Cirilo Cumberbatch. Strictly because of the name.

As far as prospects because of a baseball reason, I've always wanted to see Michael Aubrey finally stay out of the training room.

by gte619n on Feb 14, 2008 8:19 AM EST reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
Weglarz is Canadian?!?!?!

Cue irrational love.

by supermarioelia on Feb 14, 2008 9:07 AM EST reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
Weglarz, because of all the reasons I've stated before. Specifically, his size, his name, his stats, his nation of birth, and the fact that he's freakin' Nick Weglarz.

Eddie Mujica, because I like fat pitchers.

by afh4 on Feb 14, 2008 9:40 AM EST reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
and it looks like we're gonna be needing another one

by Voltaire on Feb 14, 2008 10:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
Goedert.  Because he has all those discipline and power attributes we all love - and now he might become a freaking second basemen.

by Brick. on Feb 14, 2008 10:46 AM EST reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
Oh...I can't wait for the entire organization to start playing baseball.  Guys I like...

Tony Sipp - because it's easy to forget that he was striking out 12 guys/9 innings before he got injured
Weglarz - not because he's Canadian, but because he's young, takes walks, and hits homers
Goedert - a 2B who mashes...and his name is Go-Dirt
Kelvin De La Cruz & Santo Frias - the nickname (and pitching) potential here is huge

by APV on Feb 14, 2008 10:57 AM EST reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
Santo Frias. He has just made my list as well. The Cold Saint.

by gte619n on Feb 14, 2008 11:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
Can you imagine a pitching combination of the Cold Saint and Absolute Zero (aka, Lord Kelvin)?  Drool...

by APV on Feb 14, 2008 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
I started the Jeff Stevens Bandwagon Fanclub back in May of last year.

I initially rooted for the guy, strictly because I was sick of all the BP talk and kvetching during the off-season. I deemed his success as a way to shut those people up. But, I soon realized my folly as those type of fans will never shut up.

There will always be a "BP" on the tips of their tongues and fingertips.

by Toxicadam on Feb 14, 2008 11:10 AM EST reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
ooh, yeah. Jeff Stevens too.

by Brick. on Feb 14, 2008 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
I like J.D., too, but he's not a short RHP. He's 6'4" and lean.

And yes, Santo is the new Fausto. Would you like Frias with that?

ken from alexandria

by ken from alexandria on Feb 14, 2008 11:19 AM EST reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
Georgio Rosario.

After him, Fernando Cabrera--wherever he may be.

by jhon on Feb 14, 2008 11:42 AM EST reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
Ooh, yeah, Georgio Rosario too

by Brick. on Feb 14, 2008 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
Same here.  I'd be willing to fork over some cash for a update on Gregario.  $10?  $20?  Yeah, I'd probably do $20.

by dgcambridge on Feb 18, 2008 6:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
Brian Barton.

You gotta root for a guy who can think.

(Although I used to root for Jody Gerut, too, because he went to Stanford and was refreshingly literate. Come to think of it, he probably thought too much and stayed healthy too little. Oh well.)

by ploni on Feb 14, 2008 12:08 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
What no love for Ryan Garko - a Stanford boy who can rake and blog too?
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Feb 14, 2008 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
You're so right.  You have to love Garko.

In general, I have no particular affection for "brainy" players.  I have no problem with them, but I already know plenty of very smart people, and I see no reason to believe that exceptional intelligence makes somebody a better ballplayer, or for that matter a better person.

But you still have to love Garko.  Underdog, they said he wasn't athletic enough, had no position, got drafted as a college senior, etc.  One year later, Triple-A, three years later, a solid major league starter.  You guys can have your "high risk" picks, I'll take Garko.  Chuck talked me into it.

by Jay on Feb 14, 2008 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
Not a fan of the Nicomachean Ethics, I see...

by kwoog on Feb 15, 2008 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
Garko's blog during the ALCS was fantastic.  He wrote circles around that bloke from Boston.

by Spidey on Feb 14, 2008 9:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
Hell he wrote circles around the entire PD staff - Pluto included - not to mention SI and ESPN.
"the most vehement Yankee-hating guy I know" - Jay

by mauichuck on Feb 16, 2008 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
We were discussing the Tribe's minor leaguers, weren't we?

In contradistinction to Jay's opinion, I do have a particular affection for "brainy" players. It all began when I was just a lad of seven, and the Most Brainy Player of All Time led our Brownies to NFL glory.

I guess it was imprinting or something.

by ploni on Feb 14, 2008 10:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
FWIW, it appears that Jody Gerut will be back in spring training trying to earn a job with the Padres this year.  Apparently he tore up the Venezuelan leagues this winter, instead of tearing up his knee or some other body part.
Free Andy Marte!

Pronk Needs You

by woodsmeister on Feb 14, 2008 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
Hey, good luck, Jody. Break a leg, uh, never mind.

by ploni on Feb 14, 2008 10:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
Weglarz was an instant favorite of mine the moment he was drafted, in part because it's pretty rare to draft a player who isn't even 18 yet, in part because of the "diamond in the rough" aspect, coming out of Canada in such a raw state.  He just seemed loaded with potential, and the Indians arguably over-drafted him, perhaps worried that someone else might over-draft him first.

Fausto and Jhonny actually were both favorites of mine, going back 2-3 years before they made it.  With Fausto, it was in part because nobody could figure out how he got so many batters out without the K's, but it was just too much to ignore, and in part because he was a year younger as the big bust class of 2001, and he just ran them right over.  I just wanted to shake those guys and say, "See?  Why can't you boys be more like Fausto?  He doesn't have an out pitch, but do you see him complaining?"

Fausto all by himself just makes it hard to take the draft too seriously.  I mean, where was all the fuss over his signing?  Nowhere.  What Big Four was he a part of?  Nothing.  Where's our three-part series on Shapiro's international signings, year-by-year.  Nowhere.   We know everything about these drafted kids and nothing about the international signings.  Maybe Rosario is the equivalent of a recent first-round pick, but how would we know?  We just wouldn't.

I haven't jumped on the Jeff Stevens bandwagon, but I appreciate it.  I am still carrying a torch for Shin-Shoo Choo.  And I have to admit, I was a big Alex Escboar fan.  I just loved watching him throw guys out at third, and he was one of those monster-or-nothing guys as a hitting prospect.  Nothing as it turns out.

Mujica is another one.  It doesn't seem possible that a guy does what he did in 2006 and doesn't eventually have a pretty good career.

by Jay on Feb 14, 2008 12:12 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
I like the unlooked for guys as well, that show up the more hyped prospects.

Loved Fausto since I saw him pitch for Lake County in '03 (first LC'er to the majors, I believe). Other faves: Raffy Perez, Kouz, Garko, Sipp.

Current prospects I followed closely last year: ACab, Weglarz, Goedert, Espino, Perdomo, among others.

And Adam Miller, listening to the 2004 Kinston playoffs where he was the most dominant pitcher we've had in years - still hoping he reaches his potential for some stretch of time in the majors.

by mcrose on Feb 14, 2008 3:52 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
I have high hopes for Josh Rodriguez.  Middle infielder that draws walks and hits for power.  To go along with that, he is supposed to have the skills to hit for average, so if he can boost his ba up, he becomes a real exciting player.

by ClarkM on Feb 14, 2008 5:58 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
David Huff is a guy we don't talk much about...

by APV on Feb 18, 2008 10:00 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
He hasn't really pitched enough to get a read on. But I have to admit, he's got some work to do to become a fave of mine anyhow, only because for me he's the poster boy for the "let's draft a good minor leaguer" draft philosophy.

We had a lot of high picks in 2006 and could have afforded to take just the tiniest of risks in the first round, but no - we take the soft tossing lefty over the fireballing ace named Joba Chamberlain, taken two picks later by you know who.

Micro-rant over, point being I've got some built-in bias regarding Mr. Huff.

by mcrose on Feb 19, 2008 3:25 PM EST reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
things it's bad to get in a happen doing:

1) anger/regret over a guy who gets passed over in the MLB draft.  there is almost always a guy who we "could have had"...999 times out of a 1000 it's a pointless exercise

by APV on Feb 19, 2008 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
Sure it is - but truly, my bias has less to do with specific names left on the board than with the fact that he was a very safe, low-ceiling pick.

I hope he becomes the next Glavine, but I'm just saying, through no fault of his own he's not one of my "faves" that I rah for. Yet. A stellar half year at Akron and a promotion to Buffalo would go a long way towards changing that...

by mcrose on Feb 19, 2008 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
I get that Adam, but I will admit to getting pissed off over the likelihood that we passed on Chamberlain because the price tag would have reportedly been too high owing to an agent's allusions.
-Erik

by drerikbrady on Feb 19, 2008 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
To what? Poe? You can't do Poe! I'm doing Poe.

by Voltaire on Feb 19, 2008 6:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
Ooooh. I hate these literary illusions.
ken from alexandria

by ken from alexandria on Feb 19, 2008 6:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
Well then let me disabuse you of that notion.  Joba only got a $1.1 million signing bonus, while Huff got 900K.  It's likely the Indians could have gotten Joba down to the same 900K if they'd wanted him, and they've never been mindless drones to the slot system as a few other teams have.

I think particularly in 2006, when their overall budget didn't need to be very high because of a lack of high picks, it's very unlikely they would have been concerned about signability over a few bucks.  And let's not forget, there's a difference between just not wanting to write the check and not believing that a guy is really worth the check.

They didn't pass Joba up, they selected somebody else.  The fact that Joba lasted until the 41st pick speaks for itself.

by Jay on Feb 19, 2008 8:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
If I recall right, he fell somewhat because of an injury, knee or something...

...no, triceps:

http://yankeeprospects.blogspot.com/2006/12/prospect-profile-joba-chamberlain-3.html

by mcrose on Feb 19, 2008 10:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
Interesting comp in there to CC.

by mcrose on Feb 19, 2008 10:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
We had a lot of high picks in 2006?  We had zero of the first 38 picks!

Pretty much very other team had a better drafting position than we did.  We had four picks between 56 and 75, but that is not the same as "a lot of high picks."

Dodgers ... 7, 26, 31.
Red Sox ... 27, 28, 40, 44, 71.
Indians ... 39, 56, 57, 69, 75.

BA ranked Huff as the 22nd best prospect in that draft, and we got him at #38.  They now say Huff has both the best changeup and the best control of any of our prospects.

I mean, the guy has already had an elbow injury, doesn't that prove he was risky?  What does he have to do to be risky enough for you, catch on fire?

by Jay on Feb 19, 2008 8:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
I once heard that bad heaters are a leading cause of fire (knocks on wood).

That said, I agree with Jay here.  Huff was viewed as the starter with the quickest path to the majors.  How can that be a bad thing.  Getting pitchers to the majors is half the challenge.

by APV on Feb 19, 2008 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
We had 4 second round picks, 6 picks in the top 101.  It was a far cry from last year where we had 2 picks in the first 4 rounds I believe. And obviously every pick is risky in terms of panning out - that's why our draft philosophy has, in general, geared towards the safe side. Valuing tools that are already relatively well-developed and a decent projection to transition to pro ball over pure upside.

What can I say? My initial reaction when Huff was picked was anti-excitement, safety over ceiling.

by mcrose on Feb 19, 2008 10:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
that's why our draft philosophy has, in general, geared towards the safe side

I'm sorry, I just think that's bunk.  There is no evidence that we pass up guys with higher ceilings in favor of "safer" picks.  There is nothing safe about a guy with a Triple-A ceiling.

by Jay on Feb 19, 2008 11:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
And I, on the other hand, think there's absolutely no doubt they value current development and transition to pro ball over ultimate ceiling. I should qualify it a little in that it mostly pertains to first round picks, where the cost is greatest.

Don't have the time at the moment, but I'll come back with a little analysis.

by mcrose on Feb 20, 2008 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
Honestly, you can just skip it.  The sample is too small to get anything meaningful out of it.  They've drafted a few college players in the first round recently, but it doesn't necessarily mean anything more than that was the top player available on their board at the time.

by Jay on Feb 20, 2008 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
No doubt. But the weight they give to different qualities a draftee has determines the place on that board.

"Polish" was the word I was looking for - they weight polish heavily. That quality in a draftee that gives the greatest chance for a smooth transition to pro ball, and maybe the best indicator of aptitude for skill refinement.

But yeah, we're talking SSS, and I'll wait for June to come around to get into cases.

by mcrose on Feb 20, 2008 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
I'm just remembering that in at least a couple of the last five drafts, the word was out that the Indians were expected to take some high school hitter, and then on draft day, some highly rated college pitcher fell unexpectedly into their laps -- Guthrie being one such case.  What are they supposed to do about that?  Don't you think they'd have done the opposite had it unfolded that way?

Again, Huff was rated #22 and they got him at #38, and I don't see how that can be criticized in isolation.  Arguing that they should have taken Joba even though they had injury concerns, that just doesn't make any sense given it was their only pick out of the first 55.  The very simple fact is that there aren't a bunch of high-ceiling guys to choose from at #38, or even at #28.

I'd also note that their best two pitching prospects are both high school draft picks.

by Jay on Feb 20, 2008 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
I think they make up their board ahead of time according to their own criteria, ranking pretty much everyone, including the ones they don't expect to get to them. If one of them falls, they're ready to grab...

Just doing a quick pass at the first picks from 2003 on, we got:

Aubrey
Sowers
Crowe
Huff
Mills

They all share the "polished" factor more than the "highest ceiling" factor. Aubrey actually had both, being the most polished available as well as a high MLB ceiling. The others were arguably the most ready for pro ball on the board at the time. Mills perhaps still had defensive questions, but his pro baseball exposure and gamer rep fits in the mold nicely.

But in each case except for Aubrey, there were guys on the board who projected higher, either as a pitcher or position player. Now I wouldn't draft on the basis of raw ceiling either, it just comes down to balance. If I can pick between two players who are both highly ranked and successful, I would probably pick the one with the higher ceiling more often than we have.

by mcrose on Feb 20, 2008 9:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
I just don't see how you can say that about Huff or Mills.  And in Sowers' case, you can say it, but he was considered such a lock to be a major league starter, and soon, how could they not take him?  I mean, hell, you know how much major league starters cost, even the #4 starters.

I'm more excited about Mills than I have been about any draft pick -- although to be fair, draft picks are not exciting to me in general.  You know my thing, I didn't really care about Adam Miller when we drafted him, I cared when he started tearing up the Carolina League.

I got all excited about Guthrie, and I was intrigued when they drafted his "personal catcher" a year later -- that was Garko, by the way.  Weglarz of course.  But Mills just seems like this perfect combination, still very young and raw but (it would seem) significantly less risky than a high school pick.

Bottom line, I just like drafting a guy at 20 a whole lot better than drafting a guy at 18 or 22.  I'd be pretty pleased if we drafted only 20-year-olds from now on, and my admittedly non-expert instinct is that that would be a damned fine strategy.

by Jay on Feb 21, 2008 12:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
Like I said, I don't have issues with all of those first round picks, just that I wish it was less weighted to polish and preparedness to the sacrifice of eventual potential. Since the 2003 drafts, if I recall my draftday reactions, they'd go something like this:

2003 - Aubrey:  Awright!

2004 - Sowers: Fine with it, although I would have been fine with Homer Bailey as well. Sorry to say I wasn't thinking too much about Phil Hughes at the time, although of course he did have FOR projection.

2005 - Crowe: I was fine with it and certain he was being drafted as a 2B. When I found out he was to remain an OF, I couldn't help but wondering what the rationale was - how narrow a projection can you get? He can only play LF in the majors, with little power and will only be successful if he comes thru as the high OBP leadoff sparkplug - a very limited job description. I was more interested in Travis Buck, Colby Rasmus, Bogusevic (as an OF), each of whom I thought had a better future in the OF.

2006 - Huff: Ho-hum. Another soft lefty whose best projection is back of the rotation, even if it's a swift rise. Joba was the obvious comp.

2007 - Mills: I was hoping for Jason Heyward, but wasn't unhappy with Mills. He certainly seems ready to play, and I like his bat. And he's 20!The big question will be if he can cut it in the field.

Needless to say, I'm looking forward to seeing how all of them do this year. I even have Aubrey as my dark horse to finally stay healthy and earn some ML at-bats this year.

by mcrose on Feb 21, 2008 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
I'm going to acknowledge first of all that you pretty clearly pay more attention to this than I do, so it may just be that I'm missing some of the big nuances here.  That said, I don't disagree with many of your characterizations.

  • 2003 - same as you, and I liked Snyder a lot, too.  TOOLZ!
  • 2004 - my main thinking, you can't really screw up a #6 pick except by over-drafting, which nobody believed this was.
  • 2005 - same as you, and my confusion over this pick, and the ongoing enthusiasm for Crowe, continues to this day.  From draft day to the present, the guy has never for one minute looked better than an average third-rounder.  So far, the possibility of moving him to 2B was the only thing  that has ever been worth a look about this player, and it is INCREDIBLE how badly that went.  I still think they should have given it a full season -- they stopped the experiment because they felt it was going to distract him from developing as a hitter.  Boy, did that plan totally fail or what?
  • 2006 - Yes, ho hum, but what did you expect out of a #38 pick?

I basically think Huff doesn't even belong on this list, because he just wasn't a high pick at all -- talking about "all first picks" is purely arbitrary, and for all we know, the Indians actually have a different philosophy for different "bands" of the draft.  Huff belongs on a list that also includes Whitney, Schilling, Miller, Hoyman, and Drennen -- a very different looking list, would you not agree?

Talking about Huff and Joba like they were Top 20 guys, with Huff being "safer" and Joba being "higher ceiling," doesn't make any sense.  Huff was "safer," but only because of Joba's injury, not because Joba was developmentally more distant.

It still just amuses me no end that people want more high risk/reward picks from the Indians.  I would think that people who know anything about Indians draft picks would still be trying to get the bad taste out of their mouths from the 2001 draft, in which we drafted five guys fitting that exact description -- Foley had just turned 17 -- and have virtually nothing to show for it seven years later.

by Jay on Feb 21, 2008 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Re: Rah-Rah
To the last point: yeah, and I think that the 2001 draft caused some blowback in terms of draft philosophy, from which the pendulum is still swinging somewhat. I really wasn't following the draft much back then, but looking back on it, it was very extreme - it'd be hard for any team to justify a draft like that nowadays, even the Dodgers, who are known for snatching up HS kids others deem risky.

Like I said, its not either or, its balance. If I had to choose one or the other over the long haul, I'd rather have them play safe repeatedly with polished college guys than spend every pick in the top 5 rounds on raw HS pitchers who are just getting used to shaving.

But the reality is that there are more than those two choices, and seasoning a basic formula that decreases the risk of early pro flameouts with equally calculated departures in favor of ML projection when the risk is hedged - I'd like to see a little more of that.

Mirabelli's not running the draft this year, apparently. It'll be interesting to see if there's any change in emphasis.

by mcrose on Feb 21, 2008 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

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