C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it.
by Harry Doyle on Feb 19, 2008 6:33 PM EST
Email
PrintC.C. had his promised "one time only" discussion with reporters on his decision to table contract negotiations. It's reported here.
He recalls what a distraction the negotiations were on his extension that he signed on 4/27/05. Because of a strained oblique - he started only two games in that distracted state going 1-0 (12.2IP/10H/2R/2ER/3BB/12K).
Ascribing to the philosophy that ignorance is bliss, he's told his agents not to even tell him if the Indians up their offer during the season.
91 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
C.C. discusses Contract Negotiations
bah
He's gone gone gone gone gone.
Re: bah
by dgcambridge on Feb 19, 2008 10:13 PM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
If he doesn't want to make a decision now why must he have to make it?
I'm not arguing that he will sign with Cleveland, but all of this fretting about PR, negotiating through the media, and slighting CC's position seems misplaced.
Finally, what would you do if you were in his position? To everyone on this board not living in Cleveland, think about why you left. Now consider that your family lives in Northern CA and there are several teams on the west coast that can afford you. It makes it a little harder to make a huge commitment to Cleveland right now...
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
The truth is the player didn't betray us he is just going for the last dollar which doesn't mean he is an ingrate. It just means he knows that he can get the most money somewhere else and if it doesn't work out at his new place he can always demand a trade somewhere else. Players of C.C's caliber will end up on a winning team even if they initially sign with a non-contender. If the player can handle a few losing seasons in a poor organization they can always whine their way to a winner willing to pay later for less time. (i.e Boston, NYY, NYM, Dodgers or Angels. Examples Mike Lowell, Alex Rodriguez, Bobby Abreu, Johan Santana, Vladimir Guerrero and many more.
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Lowell, A-Rod, Santana and Abreu all signed major deals with one team and later traded to a winning team before their deals were up. The only one that doesn't fit is Guerrero, who signed with the Angels and is still there.
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Including Guerrero is just a subtle, subconscious confession of ignorance.
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
by Gradyforpresident on Feb 20, 2008 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
But, until then, I have to have to believe that CC will make the choice for values other than "status" that comes from being one of the highest paid players in all of sports.
In your examples, I think A-Rod is the only one to have whined his way onto a winner. Lowell would have been happy to stay in Florida. He just sucked and was not worth his contract when dealt to Boston. The same could be said for Abreu - the Phillies were competitive and committed to building a winner - he just was not worth having on the roster (they are better without him). Santana? I don't think he whined at all - he was forced into the decision by management.
(Though you excluded one of the biggest whiners, Schilling)...
Still, your point can support CC's desire to wait until the end of the season. Why would he sign with Cleveland if it's possible for the team to trade him (if the Tribe hits a slump)? In fact, the Indians could sign him now and decide to trade him in July if they are out of the race (no-trade clauses excluded). Man, the Tribe would be sitting in the catbird seat if they had CC at a low salary available for a trade.
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
But why do you have to have to believe anything?
Look, I've been right about some of this and wrong about some of this. What I have tried to do is stick to the reality, and to try to understand the player's position in life and in negotiations. And I have relentlessly used the precedent of other players as my guide.
When I argued that C.C. might well stay, for example, it was because most top players, if they're not traded first, do choose to stay with their original teams rather than becoming free agents, passing up tens of millions in the process. The examples of this over the past three years are several and impressive, much more impressive than the list of guys who have become free agents. Beckett got extended, Burnett was a free agent.
Now that C.C. will become a free agent, there are few if any good examples to point to where he ends up staying in Cleveland, nor does such a decision fit with his position in life or negotiations. If he really wanted to stay and really wanted to avoid distraction, there was one very easy way to accomplish that, right? That's why I wrote my take on his announcement with such certitude. The history and a reasoned analysis of his options both support that kind of certitude.
Now then, this last point, the one that you made. Here again, the question is, where are the precedents for this? Who are the players who left the safe haven of their hometown team and then didn't go to the highest bidder? I think you will find that the examples of this are so scarce that it is a bit of a shock when it happens.
And therefore, based on both history and analysis of his position in life and negotiations, there is no reason to think C.C. or anybody else in his position will take anything but the highest offer. Human beings have a gift for rationalizing that the highest offer is coming from the people who want and respect him the most; any common sense about "winner's curse" goes out the window when you yourself are the prize.
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
by dgcambridge on Feb 20, 2008 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
He said he won't negotiate during the season. After the season, it's only a handful of days before he can declare for free agency, which will allow him to hear offers from other teams. There is just no reason to believe that he won't declare for free agency, because it just wouldn't make any sense.
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
She says: I think that (a) You have an act, and that (b) not having an act is your act.
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
"I put my heart on the line for this team and this organization and that city my whole career," he said. "I wouldn't expect the fans to react negatively to that."
This is the time for C.C. to just shut his mouth. He made his decision, so be it. But he shouldn't think for a minute that Indians fans won't be pissed or bitter that he's made the decision to go for the highest dollar.
by SpringTrainingFun on Feb 20, 2008 5:04 AM EST reply actions
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
He needs to get it through his skull that the fans don't owe him anything at all. Self-serving statements like this are just part of his rationalization process, seeking out ways to feel better about leaving.
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
But what does not sit well with me is when guys like him start with this type of BS. It brings back memories of Thome saying "I want to retire as an Indian ..." It's why some Indians fans don't have as much respect for Thome and others like him, despite the fact that he does a lot for the community in the way of volunteer work and giving money.
I have less of a problem with people seeking the most money than I do with the crap that they spew to the public about wanting to please the fans, wanting to take care of their families, etc. Just make your decision and then be quiet.
We have politicians who lie to us every day - we don't want to hear it from our favorite athletes as well.
Rant over ...
by SpringTrainingFun on Feb 20, 2008 9:03 AM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
What are the choices for this decision? What must he decide?
As I see it, he has just one: make a commitment and sign with Cleveland for $17M/year for the next 4 years.
OR
Don't make a commitment and wait until the end of the season to see what other options are available.
If I were in his shoes, I would wait, too.
As for the "BS" about the Indians and the fans - I would rather have him say something positive rather than neutral or negative. We are playing for a World Series in 2008! We need his attention and focus to the team in 2008. If CC were to say "I don't love and I don't hate Cleveland or the fans- they are decent folk. Good people. I just care about baseball." - I would not feel very confident about having him on the mound when the chips are down.
All of this ranting about CC's desire to wait until the end of the season is making me think that many people want to get rid of free agency.
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Also, films, books and paintings are bought and sold. But no one ever says about them that, "it's not art, it's a business." Baseball is a game. And turning down 4 years and 80 million dollars to do it where you CLAIM you want to do it is avarice, pure and simple. If it's not, that word has no meaning.
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
by JulioBernazard on Feb 20, 2008 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
See, that's what I'm talkin' about. I want him worn to a nub and the Cavs in the fifth seed come play-off time. A year or two of that and he'll be screamin' for a trade.
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
The triple-double is a little tainted, as LBJ wnet 0-fer from the floor in the in first half.
I'll give the team a pass for an All-Star hangover if they can beat IND tonight.
by JulioBernazard on Feb 20, 2008 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
by JulioBernazard on Feb 20, 2008 9:31 PM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
If Chuck actually likes basketball (and I suspect that he does not), he's missing out because of a pretty silly stance. His loss.
Anyway, now we watch the trade wire...
Re: C.C.
Why I'm happy to "deal with it" re LeBron: "My game is not just go out and score, it's about getting others involved and helping each other on the defensive end."
by JulioBernazard on Feb 21, 2008 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C.
by dgcambridge on Feb 21, 2008 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C.
by JulioBernazard on Feb 21, 2008 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C.
by JulioBernazard on Feb 21, 2008 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C.
My evil plan is working.
Re: C.C.
I know that you don't construct your lineup around beating one particular team, but the way to beat my Raps is to attack our D with atheleticism from your non-#1 option. So getting rid of Hughes suits me just fine for a 1st round Raps-Cavs matchup. Although Wallace will destroy us on the offensive boards since we can't control defensive rebounds to save our life.
by supermarioelia on Feb 21, 2008 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C.
by dgcambridge on Feb 21, 2008 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
My stance is far from "silly" it's how a Cleveland guy responds to a slap in the face.
What is amazing to me is your caprophagic response to a Cleveland "superstar". I don't know about you, but when I'm insulted and have my nose rubbed im it I get a little angry.
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
No one's changing their mind here, of course. All fun.
Now I have to go look up "caprophagic."
by dgcambridge on Feb 21, 2008 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
by Turkmenbashi on Feb 21, 2008 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
by Turkmenbashi on Feb 21, 2008 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Whenever a patient's outcome clashes with either of those drivers the patient has about the same winning percentage as the D-Rays.
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
My point is, no matter what economy you talk about, there have always been sects of industry that are regulated in ways that are not based on "pure business." Ie, they are not meant to be pure-profit making. And I think playing a game should be looked at similarly (as it already is, when one considers all the protectionist/anti-free market rules: pre/post-arbitration salary limits, bargaining agreements, restrictions of league size and ability to own a team, salary caps-in other sports, revenue sharing, tax funded stadiums, etc etc etc).
Thus, CC's playing a game in an isolated and strictly regulated market, he's not a businessman. He's a pitcher.
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Here's the only time I agree with Anne Rand, any time there are rules put in place to govern the profitablity of any organization, somebody will find a way to twist them to their advantage. And they'll use terms like "for the benefit of all" or "to level the playing field". In the end it's all about self-interest - and taking home the most Benjamins.
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
by Seattle Tribe Fan on Feb 20, 2008 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
This is getting weird. Ok. You brought her up. Why do you need a strawman enemy to talk about markets? Newsflash: Ayn isn't that important. Spare me the Greenspan conspiracy.
(Not that I've bothered to read anything of hers. Being an architect, I'm often asked by non-architects if I've read "The Fountainhead", as if it's an important work of lit in our field. No, I haven't read the damn book.)
Why are so many people so intensely bothered by her? Seems to me that her opposition vastly outnumber her admirers--as if she's a prop. This suggests--to me--that her enemies feel vulnerable and that she probably has some very good points; that, however juvenile her work might be, she's on to something.
I am finding it harder and harder to surpress my own political feelings around here.
So, what are you Chuck? An intellectual, or an anti-intellectual? I'm confused. You seem to go down both paths at once.
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
I think we're getting a bit to far into the politics. I'll say this... I've read some Rand, and I hate it. I'd be happy to discuss why sometime, outside of LGT.
by Turkmenbashi on Feb 20, 2008 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Yes
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Hey, sorry to get everybody off-track. Speaking of which, anybody else wanna talk about "The Wire"?
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
by Gradyforpresident on Feb 20, 2008 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
by Seattle Tribe Fan on Feb 20, 2008 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
On a personal note, I hate telling people I work for the RAND Corporation and having them assume it's something to do with her.
by Turkmenbashi on Feb 20, 2008 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
As far as people taking advantage of rules, Chuck, there is only one remedy for that: Democracy. Break power up into the smallest possible pieces... bottom-up power structure. Then an individual cannot "take advantage."
In the end, CC is being greedy. Whether or not he has the cahunas to admit it, I couldn't care less. But to look on while he does it, throw your hands up in the air and say being greedy is just someone's "right"... that is where I jump ship.
Sorry if this is too non-baseball, I consider it just good ol' ideas, somewhat relevant to CC's decision making. All in good fun.
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Oof. This is ugly screed. C'mon guys.
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Last year, I left a job that I'd been at for 5 years. I was generally happy there, did interesting work, no one bothered me and I made decent money. I took a new job for more $$$ and better benefits that was 4 miles from my house as opposed to 30.
I can understand seeking more pay and a better quality of life. If that's what C.C. is interested in, I can't hate him for it. He signed a contract with the Indians, both sides have lived up to it. When it's over, they make a new one - or each side moves on.
What got me annoyed are the signals he sent - that that he was interested in negotiating - and would negotiate through Spring Training. Then, he decided not to. That seems disingenuous to me.
Adding this dreck about all the sacrifices he made (pitching a baseball every fifth day) and how negotiating a multi-million dollar contract that will set your kids for their lives is distracting only makes me more annoyed.
by Harry Doyle on Feb 20, 2008 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
by Turkmenbashi on Feb 20, 2008 8:55 AM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
by Turkmenbashi on Feb 20, 2008 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
cc feels fans have no right to be betrayed by virtue of what he's given to the team. and lebron feels fans should be able to come to terms with his being a yankee fan. but it's annoying to a lot of fans to be told to do so - especially by some 'spoilled millionaire' who doesn't know what it feels like to be 'betrayed' by their favorite player. at best, it's condescending. i mean are we supposed to read that quote and say "my gosh, he's right - he's given us everything - fair the well cc, best of luck in all your endeavors. go get that ring and those dollars. thanks for everything!"
it's no less douchebagian than clemens feeling he's earned the right for us to just take his word for it based on his track record - whatever that means.
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
by Turkmenbashi on Feb 20, 2008 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
by The DiaTriber on Feb 20, 2008 9:18 AM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C.
He shouldn't hear anything from fans during the entirety of 2008, so long as he's pitching for the Tribe. As someone above wrote, he's honored his conract and can make a decision at the end of the season. He's an Indian for now, and deserves our full support.
by JulioBernazard on Feb 20, 2008 12:05 PM EST reply actions
When I come to that road, I'll cross it.
It's a great angle, because it totally makes the athlete feel like they are not being selfish. But rather, a martyr for the earnings of their peers and the hundreds of ball players that will come after them.
Union pressure was one of the big reasons why Manny left us in 2000.
Re: When I come to that road, I'll cross it.
by JulioBernazard on Feb 20, 2008 1:36 PM EST up reply actions
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
And if / when he leaves... "when I come to that road, I'll cross it".
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
"Without hearing Sabathia say he'd take less to play here, why would faith in anything other than Tolkien wizardry be a consideration for people who have heard other players say how much they love it here, then bolt for free agency?"
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
!
Re: C.C. - When I come to that road, I'll cross it
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recent FanPosts
Featured Stories
FanShots
Quick hits of video, photos, quotes, chats, links and lists that you find around the web.
Recent FanShots
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Photo: Padres fan regrets letting mother capture moment with Trevor Hoffman
- Marlins agree to unretire No. 5 for Logan Morrison, who will honor his father’s favorite player
- Weatherman Derek Holland does Dallas TV
- Ask Alex: Will Julio Teheran or Matt Moore win rookie of the year?
- Ku Klux Klan, umpires and bowling: Why the minor leagues tossed out Jim Evans academy
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
